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YANI: Survivalist Mode

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September 27, 2005 9:01:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

The idea is a pretty simple one: at the beginning of the game, your
character, regardless of class, begins with *nothing.* No weapons, no
armor, no tools, no wands, no scrolls, no potions, no rings, no
memorized spells, and no pet. For starting without your kit, you might
receive a number of points added to your score dependant on character
class (i.e. a survivalist wizard will receive a lot more points than a
survivalist caveman), but apart from that there are no added game
benefits to beginning as a survivalist.

The idea is to make a challenging game more challenging for those that
have ascended several times. It also lets non-ascended players practice
their scavenging skills in the absolute worst possible case scenario,
allowing them to build skills and strategies that will carry over into
their next equipped game. It also breaks the mold that we fall into
regarding weapons and character classes. Who picks up that randomly
generated mace or bardiche on Dlvl 2? Most of the classes start with a
better weapon than they'll find early in the game. In this case, it's
in your best interest to acquire anything you can until you get to a
comfortable equipment level.


Your humble and obedient Renaissance Man,

Bard

More about : yani survivalist mode

Anonymous
September 27, 2005 12:35:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Bard wrote:
> The idea is a pretty simple one: at the beginning of the game, your
> character, regardless of class, begins with *nothing.* No weapons, no
> armor, no tools, no wands, no scrolls, no potions, no rings, no
> memorized spells, and no pet. For starting without your kit, you might
> receive a number of points added to your score dependant on character
> class (i.e. a survivalist wizard will receive a lot more points than a
> survivalist caveman), but apart from that there are no added game
> benefits to beginning as a survivalist.
<snip>

Sadistic. I like it!

-K
Anonymous
September 27, 2005 7:51:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack,misc.misc (More info?)

Kremti wrote:
> Bard wrote:
> > The idea is a pretty simple one: at the beginning of the game, your
> > character, regardless of class, begins with *nothing.* No weapons, no
> > armor, no tools, no wands, no scrolls, no potions, no rings, no
> > memorized spells, and no pet. For starting without your kit, you might
> > receive a number of points added to your score dependant on character
> > class (i.e. a survivalist wizard will receive a lot more points than a
> > survivalist caveman), but apart from that there are no added game
> > benefits to beginning as a survivalist.
> <snip>

> Sadistic. I like it!

Me, too, but to up the ante! For a player character
with nothing, and thus experience with nothing, there
should be _nothing_ "pre-known" on the "\" list, and
at least potentially, no skill advancible past "basic",
since the adventurer pretty certainly got no training
with _anything_ prior to entering the dungeon.

xanthian, just a poor clod off the pig farm who fell in
this really scary hole in the ground, and things went
right downhill from there.

Now, for extra class credit, play a "zen survivalist",
if you can!
Related resources
September 28, 2005 8:36:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jukka Lahtinen wrote:
> But like a real survivalist, the character would need to have better stats
> than most others. High strength, dex and con would be essential. Maybe
> also int, but charisma could be average.

Initially, I meant this to be an extra mode of play, but it's beginning
to sound like its own character class. So I'm going to answer this,
treating the survivalist as a class.

Possibly. I think it's more challenging to give a survivalist fairly
average scores: str, dex, and con can all be excercised fairly easily.
Int can't, but as recent posts to rgrn have demonstrated, high level
characters of virtually any class can be adept spellcasters later in
the game. It might be fun to let the RNG have its way with the
survivalist's starting stats. Imagine starting with a 3 int. I know
what the first genocide scroll I used would be.

> On the contrary, he would be able to train ANY skill to expert, with no
> prior training to restrict him with precautions and attitudes.
> But he could start unskilled in everything.

I like this idea, although it seems like it might make a survivalist
unbalanced. Still, if Survivalist is going to be a class rather than a
mode it probably needs a couple advantages.

I'm still afraid it just won't have as much impact on the later game as
it will on the early game. If the first weapon you find is a fauchard,
you might train it to basic to get you by, but I can't think of a
decent artifact weapon in the pole-arm class, so you'll likely abandon
it for a named weapon. Nobody trains pole-arms because there's no
pay-off to it. That's a long-standing pet peeve of mine in pen and
paper RPGs too. Not everyone in the mythical lands of yore needs to
carry a sword variant.

It seems to me that while a survivalist class might or might not start
out with a pet, they should be exempt from penalty for eating any pet
they do have. They also might be exempt from cannibalism penalties, but
in a survivalist's case, I think it would only be permissable when the
character is already weak/fainting from hunger.

I'm imagining a survivalist class's quest. Imagine having to leave all
your acquired possessions behind, and entering the quest with nothing
but a crude knife. you have to navigate a maze/swamp as quickly as you
can, gathering equipment to use on your nemesis before your nemesis
gathers it to use it on you. That could be potentially a lot of fun.
I'm not sure what the survivalist's quest artifact would be, however.
Something that grants slow digestion, I'd think would be appropriate.


Your humble and obedient Renaissance Man,

Bard
September 28, 2005 9:32:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

BWIGLEY wrote:

> A towel.

The Silver Towel of the Prefect. It's a weapon, it's a piece of armor,
it conveys magic reflection....

Or how about

The Swiss Army Knife. weilds as a silver weapon, conveys double damage,
engraves without dulling, opens tins as a tin opener, opens doors as a
lockpick, digs as a pick-axe. #invoke causes food detection.


Your humble and obedient Renaissance Man,

Bard
Anonymous
September 28, 2005 9:52:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Bard wrote:
> BWIGLEY wrote:
>
> > A towel.
>
> The Silver Towel of the Prefect. It's a weapon, it's a piece of armor,
> it conveys magic reflection....
>
> Or how about
>
> The Swiss Army Knife. weilds as a silver weapon, conveys double damage,
> engraves without dulling, opens tins as a tin opener, opens doors as a
> lockpick, digs as a pick-axe. #invoke causes food detection.

I like the idea of a swiss knife. :) 
Since swiss knives can also open bottles wine, this one should also
be able to do something to booze potions, maybe uncurse them or
something like that...

chlorine
Anonymous
September 28, 2005 1:24:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Kent Paul Dolan" <xanthian@well.com> writes:
> > Bard wrote:
> > > The idea is a pretty simple one: at the beginning of the game, your
> > > character, regardless of class, begins with *nothing.* No weapons, no
> > > armor, no tools, no wands, no scrolls, no potions, no rings, no

But like a real survivalist, the character would need to have better stats
than most others. High strength, dex and con would be essential. Maybe
also int, but charisma could be average.

> Me, too, but to up the ante! For a player character
> with nothing, and thus experience with nothing, there
> should be _nothing_ "pre-known" on the "\" list, and

Maybe so..

> at least potentially, no skill advancible past "basic",
> since the adventurer pretty certainly got no training
> with _anything_ prior to entering the dungeon.

On the contrary, he would be able to train ANY skill to expert, with no
prior training to restrict him with precautions and attitudes.
But he could start unskilled in everything.

--
Jukka Lahtinen
Anonymous
September 28, 2005 5:43:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article news:<1127910766.447887.261340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
Bard <bardofawen@gmail.com> says...
> The Swiss Army Knife. ... digs as a pick-axe.
>
Damn big army knife...
Anonymous
September 28, 2005 8:54:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jukka Lahtinen <jslnews@despammed.com> writes:
> > > Bard wrote:
> > > > The idea is a pretty simple one: at the beginning of the game, your
> > > > character, regardless of class, begins with *nothing.* No weapons, no

> [..] he would be able to train ANY skill to expert, with no
> prior training to restrict him with precautions and attitudes.
> But he could start unskilled in everything.

Thinking again.. as he starts with nothing, he should start with basic
skills in bare-handed combat (or martial arts, which ever would be the
relevant skill for the class).

--
Jukka Lahtinen
Anonymous
September 28, 2005 11:47:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On that special day, Bard, (bardofawen@gmail.com) said...

> Imagine having to leave all
> your acquired possessions behind, and entering the quest with nothing
> but a crude knife. you have to navigate a maze/swamp as quickly as you
> can, gathering equipment to use on your nemesis before your nemesis
> gathers it to use it on you.

Not exactly what you are intending, but if the only entry to the quest
nemesis is blocked by something that cou can only get past by squeezing
(two diagonally adjactne, undiggable walls), it might come close to
what you had been thinking about.

Quest leader, of course, is Rambo. Or maybe one of these Missing in
Action characters.


Gabriele Neukam

Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-online.de


--
Ah, Information. A property, too valuable these days, to give it away,
just so, at no cost.
Anonymous
September 29, 2005 3:03:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <dhektj$jr$02$2@news.t-online.com>, Gabriele Neukam wrote:

[survivalist class]

> Quest leader, of course, is Rambo. Or maybe one of these Missing in
> Action characters.

How about McGyver? He seems to manage with what happens to be around and
thus would be a good quest leader. Oh, and he's pacifist so he's a
true prototype of resourcefulness.

--
Panu
"You haven't really been anywhere until you've got back home",
Twoflower in "The Light Fantastic"
Anonymous
September 29, 2005 3:03:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Panu Lahtinen <pnuu@iki.fi> writes:
> In article <dhektj$jr$02$2@news.t-online.com>, Gabriele Neukam wrote:
> [survivalist class]
> > Quest leader, of course, is Rambo. Or maybe one of these Missing in
> > Action characters.
> How about McGyver?

Tsk. As everyone knows, the definitive story of survivalism is
_A Boy and His Dog_. All else follows as a consequence.
Anonymous
September 29, 2005 3:47:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Bard" <bardofawen@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1127907377.910652.247180@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Jukka Lahtinen wrote:
> > But like a real survivalist, the character would need to have
better stats
> > than most others. High strength, dex and con would be essential.
Maybe
> > also int, but charisma could be average.

<snip - Survivalist class>

> gathers it to use it on you. That could be potentially a lot of fun.
> I'm not sure what the survivalist's quest artifact would be,
however.
> Something that grants slow digestion, I'd think would be
appropriate.

A towel.
Anonymous
September 29, 2005 3:47:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article news:<tpv_e.14896$iM2.1218359@news.xtra.co.nz>, BWIGLEY
<bwigley@xtra.co.nz> says...
> "Bard" <bardofawen@gmail.com> wrote in message

> <snip - Survivalist class>

> > I'm not sure what the survivalist's quest artifact would be,
> however.
> > Something that grants slow digestion, I'd think would be
> appropriate.
>
> A towel.
>

Appropriate indeed.

Granting acid resistance would be unique, and somewhat appropriate for a
towel. Also near useless, but meh.
Anonymous
September 30, 2005 3:15:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack,misc.misc (More info?)

"BWIGLEY" <bwigley@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
> "Bard" <bardofawen@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Something that grants slow digestion,
>> I'd think would be appropriate.

> A towel.

That's one of those seques that turned
its corner a little too fast for me.

e
What do you want to eat?
t - a towel
You'll never be hungry again -- more --
You choke. You die.

Heh.

xanthian.

Context: the only thing out of which
comments need to be taken.

Ambrose Bierce -- The Devil's Dictionary

[not really]


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Anonymous
September 30, 2005 3:25:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack,misc.misc (More info?)

"Douglas Henke" <henke@kharendaen.dyndns.org> wrote:

> Tsk. As everyone knows, the definitive story of survivalism is
> _A Boy and His Dog_. All else follows as a consequence.

Sure, but are _you_ going to implement the
"girlfriend/Significant Other" code? And if
you do, who'd volunteer for the role?

xanthian, fan of that tale, too.




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