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I’m fed up with it.. I’ve really, really had it

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Anonymous
a b à CPUs
August 9, 2001 8:31:27 AM

I don’t know who to blame anymore, but I’ll blame VIA for now. I’m an AMD fan, mainly because of their price/performance ratio and the competition they bring to intel. But Im really loosing faith in the SocketA platform.

I’ve upgraded from a completely problem free (but boring) Dell P3-500 to a homebrew Duron 600 for overclocking, about a year ago. (not exactly my first PC assembly, I’ve been assembling ever since the 386 came out).

I thought I’d simply purchase a new MB, CPU, Ram and be done with.. well, it turned out differently. I got myself this:
MSI K7T Turbo Raid
256 Mb PC133
Duron 600 (seen it working @950)
TT Chrome Orb (big mistake)
2x Maxtor 7200 rpm 20Gb

The setup was cheap enough, the installation not too hard. The Chrome Orb was a piece of [-peep-], and got replaced by a Silverado (almost $100). I also upgraded the PSU, because the one I had was too noisy to my liking.. hence an Enermax ($80).

Anyway, I loved my Duron for its overclocking performance (it would easily run 933 Mhz, though I usually ran it @866 1.6v 38°C). I also loved the performance of the setup, especially the RAID 0 seemed to make a huge difference.

Stability was another thing. No, it did not crash under w2K. Even under extreme stress, and highly overclocked. But sometimes it would suddenly not boot into Win2K, because the RAID and/or NTFS partition seemed corrupted (although Win98 on the same RAID, but FAT partition booted ok). This happened to me more than once. I got ‘inaccessible boot device’ errors. Repairing w2K sometimes helped, sometimes didn’t. I could usually install fresh copy of W2K alongside the exisiting, and recover all my data though. Once installed, the partition seemed in perfect condition, but it would just not boot the old win2K setup. Im still not sure what caused this (perhaps the fact that both drives are not identical ? one is AT100, the other ATA66) Maybe the Promise controller/driver is a piece of crap ? (yes I upgraded bios and drivers, to no avail).

Suspend to Ram has been another thing that just wouldn’t work for longer than a day. Even win2k’s hibernate feature would often not allow me to resume. This was unrelated to the overclocking, cause it did exactly the same, even when I underclocked it. I tried EVERYTHING. Any possible bios setting, bios version, service pack, 4-1 packs, reinstalls, component swaps, even cpu swaps. Nothing would really cure it.

Then came the USB trouble. I got myself an ADSL connection, and bought a USB modem. My MSI board would shutdown the USB devices every so often (once per 2 hours or so), requiring a reboot to reactivate them. This seemed to be a commonly witnessed MSI issue. Just when I was about to buy an add in USB card, the motherboard completely died on me. First, I could not boot into Win2K, while Win98 worked fine. I tried to install a fresh copy of Win2K, to be able to access the NTFS partition, but the installation gave me a ‘hardware error’ STOP message (blue screen of death). 10 minutes later, the machine wouldn’t boot at all (not even fans spinning up), and it became clear the MB was dead.

The MSI board was replaced under warranty. The new one would exhibit the USB problems even worse. It would not retain a connection for longer than 5 seconds before shutting down the USB.. Oddly, I discovered it worked fine with the FSB set at 100 Mhz instead of 133.. No, this was not an overclocking issue either, tested it with another stock speed Athlon. Installed USB filter patch, latest drivers, latest BIOS, tried everyone goddamn BIOS setting, tried with and without ACPI. Nothing helped.

So I bought an PCI USB card. That works fine, but completely ruins the machines ability to resume from STR3 or hibernation. *sigh*.

Now, just yesterday I noticed my event log contained an enormous amount of errors concerning sms.sys or something. Knowledge base didn’t help me much.. I left it at what it was, and started installing Windows2000 server to test some apps for my work. During the hardware detection phase I get “hardware error, please contact your manufacturer”. ?? Great, the first time I got this message, my system died within 10 minutes

So I tried to install Windows XP RC2, since XP usually gives you more info. It did. Another BSOD: “an interrupt storm has been detected. The installation has been halted to prevent damage to your system”. Interrupt storm?? WTF is an interrupt storm ? It also reported usbport.sys as the culprit, so I disabled USB in the BIOS, and removed the USB PCI card. Tried again, and now I got generic STOP error, “hardware error has occurred” with an error code that gives me no info on MS knowledge base.

Please note all of this in on a completely not overclocked system, that runs cool as my fridge (36°C) with a very adequate power supply (450W). Don’t tell me its due to my previous overclocking, cause its not. I have the same issues with a brandnew Athlon 1.2 running at stock speed (or even @900 for testing purposes). And its my second board…

Meanwhile, my existing copy of Windows 2000 Professional still works without trouble.. I can play OPF online for hours, without any issue; I ran Simmtester to test my memory, and after 16 hours, it has not reported ONE error. I can rip DVD’s and convert them into DivX for days.. so, in a way its stable..

But im fed up with it.. really. Im gonna try one more motherboard with a SiS or AMD chipset, and this better work. If that doesn’t satisfy me, I really consider going back to intel, just for their chipsets. But no more VIA for me, thank you very much.. I’ve had my share.



---- Owner of the only Dell computer with an AMD chip

More about : fed ive really

August 9, 2001 3:44:24 PM

Remember that there are no true AMD 760 chipsets, just the 761 Northbridge with the Via 686B southbridge.
That would leave Ali Magik and SiS, I suppose.

-----------------------
Quarter pounder inside
August 9, 2001 4:36:28 PM

USB sucks with VIA chipsets is my conclusion, though I don't even use USB devices. I've just been reading all the posts, everywhere. My favorite KT7 resource (not K7T but same via related problems) has about 30 so called tips (I think it's voodoo magic) that people use in their attempts to get USB to function. www.usbman.com has even more tips but there are a couple I was wondering about. One is to enable the USB keyboard or legacy USB device in BIOS even if you don't actually use these. Plug&Play OS must also be enabled. This is the first time I have seen either of these suggestions. It's probably just more "voodoo" but I thought I would pass it on.

Do you think your hard drive problems have anthhing to do with the 686 bug?

You might want search the boards for Maxtor/RAID problems. I seem to recall reading about this subject here at THG.

I was really hoping PCI USB cards would be the solution for the USB issue.

Good luck, with your new system, whatever it turns out to be.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by phsstpok on 08/09/01 12:38 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
Related resources
August 9, 2001 4:52:15 PM

Glad your finally seeing the light bbaeyens.

VIA chipset does suck and most likely the secondary cause of your problems. the primary cause is AMD and its developer support. AMD has depended on third parties to manufacture chipsets that were less than satisfactory in quality. AMD needs to do QA on these third parties to ensure you are getting highest quality parts available. not a machine that slaps the parts on and a packaging monkey to throw it in a box.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
August 9, 2001 5:33:42 PM

So what system do you have?
August 9, 2001 5:40:31 PM

P4 @ 1.8Ghz OC'd capable of 2Ghz but 1.8Ghz is the sweet spot.

Asus P4T w/512 RDRAM, Geforce3 and some other goodies

~7500 in 3Dmark2001
a b à CPUs
August 9, 2001 5:44:09 PM

Ran into those same problems myself, and then some. I only had YOUR problems AFTER I got the system up and running. VIA does not share well. So after says of figuring out how to get everything to work together, I thought I was doing great, until files started getting corrupted. I hung with that system for several months, reloading the the hard drive every few weeks. I gave up and built a PIII system. And I hated the way Intel was abusing the market back then, but now I see that when you get it right, you can charge whatever price the market will bear.

Video killed my Radio Card!
August 9, 2001 8:39:43 PM

Interrupt storm...seems like an IRQ conflict to me. Did you try to specify unique IRQ's to your PCI slots? Also, try to avoid putting a card in a slot that share an IRQ with your promise controller and the AGP (see your mb manual to know wich ones) . At lest the promise controller.

On my Athlon system, even under Win2k with it's "better handling" of IRQ sharing, I had to replace the "ACPI compliant computer" to "Standard PC" (Cause Windows not to try to put all devices on the same IRQ).

Hope that helps.

It's better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick!
August 9, 2001 10:19:18 PM

i have a 1.2 Tbird with Asus kv7 133 that worked fine for about a week and then exhibited the errors you talked about (BSOD, hardware error please contact vendor for support or something like that) I thing it started after I bought a new Intellimouse. Anyway I had 2 HD's on the Promise ATA100 controller (not connected in Raid though since they are not even the same size) when it failed. Disabled the ATA100 and tried to get it to boot on just the IDE plug. NOTHING. The smaller HD was from my older machine(with files I wanted to transfer to the new one) and the new PC would never boot to this HD(and still won't today-BSOD, call hardware vendor). Flashing the bios when the latest version solved my problem (1005a). It sounds like you tried that however. I can't believe it won't boot to the old drive. I thought maybe the HD was corrupt but it boots on the old PC fine. Via sucks there is no doubt about. I just hope that the bios rev solve my problems. I guess I wished I would have waited for the SIS or nVidia nforce boards to come out.
August 9, 2001 10:43:47 PM

"7500 in 3dmark2001" ~FUGGER


FUGGER, that is NOT your 3dmark2001 score on default, the HIGHEST default 3dmark score on madonion for a 1.8ghz p4 is 6570, not only are you a troll, you are either a liar, or set your 3dmark2001 to 640x480 to hide the dismal performance of your computer.
::called fugger out::

~Matisaro~
"Friends don't let friends buy Pentiums"
~Tbird1.3@1.55~
August 9, 2001 10:48:37 PM

"7500 in 3dmark2001" ~FUGGER


ALSO, the highest p4 score of them ALL is 7442, and this comes from a p4 system running at 2ghz, now explain to us all master fugger, how you beat a comparable system by 70 pts with 200less mhz. LIAR

~Matisaro~
"Friends don't let friends buy Pentiums"
~Tbird1.3@1.55~<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Matisaro on 08/09/01 03:49 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
August 9, 2001 10:55:37 PM

He got bowser to use Photoshop and change the numbers. It's probably as convincing as bowser's picture of the Hammer.




<font color=blue>Quarter pounder inside</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Change the Sig of the Week!!!</font color=red>
August 9, 2001 10:58:24 PM

If I was fugger, I would post his amazing scores on madonion, there are legions(ok 7) p4 fans there waiting to give him his props for those leet skillz.

Anyone who makes up benchmark results to make his weak system look better than others is a loser, even more so than fugger was before.....my respect for him lowered even further today.

~Matisaro~
"Friends don't let friends buy Pentiums"
~Tbird1.3@1.55~
August 9, 2001 11:50:55 PM

LoL that's just beyond pathetic. Rigging benchmark scores to make Intel (or AMD, or nVidia, or ATI, etc. etc.) look good is the height of lemming-ism. I mean really, you have to be very, very desperate to prove your cause to go that far. What makes this whole situation even more laughable is the credit FUGGER gives our intelligence...

...but you know, I think everything I might say about FUGGER has been said before. So at this point, I'll settle for laughing my ass off.

LO freakin' L! :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 

Kelledin

"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."
August 9, 2001 11:57:14 PM

I scored a 550 and I'm proud of it! Fugger, come out and be a man. No need to lie about your scores....

<font color=red>Change the sig of the week!</font color=red>
August 10, 2001 1:09:11 AM

LMAO, I can do 6570 without overclocking gimp, dont get so upset over my score cause it blows yours away. just deal with it. not everyone posts scores.

Overclocking to 2Ghz and pushing the Geforce3 to far beyond spec is too easy. think before you chime in with dumb reply =)
August 10, 2001 1:18:39 AM

I will go post scores on Madonion to shut you girls up. Seems I hit a sore spot =)

No, I dont need to doctor pics.

Im not a member of madonion, and have not posted scores. Please tell me that the 3Dmark program communicates with www.madonion.com and takes score from last run test?

If its based on a a honor system then it sucks and I will not do it, kinda like anandtech.com and the way he does mycomputer or whatever he calls it. filling out a form did not cut it for me.

I was hoping for a prog like CpuID to post results.

Anyway, Ill check it out and posts my scores to shut you girls up, DO not split hairs if im off by a few points, I know how you lemmings love to do that.

When I do post scores beating those you mentioned, you better stfu and applaud my nice rig.
August 10, 2001 1:30:32 AM

Seeing as you don't need the respect of AMD lemmings to feel good, why are you even bothering?

Sounds like we're not the only ones with sore spots! :tongue:

Kelledin

"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."
August 10, 2001 1:36:16 AM

You can submit an active score or you can save a project and submit it later (which makes one wonder if it is possible to cheat). Sorry, there is no autosave feature. You will have to run your test again.
August 10, 2001 1:56:06 AM

dont cry fugger it's ok :(  if we are all too mean why don't you go <A HREF="http://www.gay.com" target="_new"> here </A> where people will accept you.

mbaha

“Build your own you will love it more”
August 10, 2001 2:50:00 AM

hey i totally agree with ya VIA sucks... however i have never had a problem with my USB devices. I have 3 USB devices and not one problem.. You may want to install VIA USB drivers. Have you installed the VIA 4-in-1 drivers? try the latest version at www.viahardware.com.

the AMD/VIA combo won't be so bad i think.. i'm not sure yet though. I get my board monday. Has the AMD/VIA hybrid If you can wait definitly wait for the Sis or even the nforce chipset!!!! I will agree AMD chipsets in general sucks really bad. Thats why most companies now are using the AMD chipset northbridge.. i don't think the southbridge will be much of a problem though from via... *shrugs*

if you go intel at least wait for the Northwood capable motherboards to come out. I don't like the current pentium 4's. The refreshed version would be interesting to see in benchmarks however.

Have fun!

made some changes because my brain had a relapse .. if it doesn't make sense it's because i'm super tired and my brain is fried lol... just ask questions ...<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by xxsk8er101xx on 08/09/01 11:01 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
August 10, 2001 3:33:06 AM

Heh, probably used the speed cheat. Either that or set it to 16 bit w/ no AA and 640x480.
August 10, 2001 5:44:20 AM

btw - better check your facts - highest P4 default benchmark is 9063, with 10 rating over 7500 - all 2Ghz or better.

best AMD under same conditions is 8089.

-* This Space For Rent *-
email for application details
August 10, 2001 5:47:16 AM

I'm no fan of fuggers but 2GHz P4s with all the toys are hitting 7500 default benchmark in 2001...

Intel P4 takes the top 3 spots currently, with AMD and P4 exchanging downwards from there.

-* This Space For Rent *-
email for application details
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
August 10, 2001 6:47:00 AM

>That would leave Ali Magik and SiS, I suppose.

Dont forget the nForce. got my hopes set on that one.. not so much for its performance, but I hope it will at least WORK as advertised.



---- Owner of the only Dell computer with an AMD chip
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
August 10, 2001 6:48:45 AM

>One is to enable the USB keyboard or legacy USB device in
>BIOS even if you don't actually use these. Plug&Play OS
>must also be enabled. This is the first time I have seen
>either of these suggestions. It's probably just
>more "voodoo" but I thought I would pass it on

Yeah, thanks for trying; but I've tried all these.. anyway, Im gonna RMA this board tomorrow.. who knows, maybe my third board will work properly ?

---- Owner of the only Dell computer with an AMD chip
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
August 10, 2001 6:51:46 AM

>Do you think your hard drive problems have anthhing to do with the 686 bug?

Doubtful.. I thought using the Promise RAID would bypass the bug.. if not, shouldnt the latest 4-1 have cured it ?

>I was really hoping PCI USB cards would be the solution
>for the USB issue.

Well, it is. USB works flawlessly ever since I got the PCI card.. I was only unlucky (or stupid) enough to get a board that was designed in 1998.. and doesnt support ACPI STR properly (well, neither does my board, so who cares)


---- Owner of the only Dell computer with an AMD chip
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
August 10, 2001 7:04:15 AM

>Interrupt storm...seems like an IRQ conflict to me.

Oh I wish it was that easy.. its not though.

>Did you try to specify unique IRQ's to your PCI slots?
>Also, try to avoid putting a card in a slot that share an
>IRQ with your promise controller and the AGP (see your mb
>manual to know wich ones) . At lest the promise
>controller.

You can try whatever you want, win2K will override it, and share the IRQs of most devices (video, USB, promise, ...)
I also tried to change the "ACPI compliant computer" to standard pc, to no avail. IRQ sharing was not the problem. I also tried disabling ACPI in the BIOS, and winXP install would still report this "interrupt storm".


>On my Athlon system, even under Win2k with it's "better
>handling" of IRQ sharing, I had to replace the "ACPI
>compliant computer" to "Standard PC" (Cause Windows not to
>try to put all devices on the same IRQ).

Its supposed to work like that; and usually it works great, freeing up a lot of IRQs and it gets rid of most IRQ conflicts. Unless you have to, I suggest leaving the ACPI on, and let win2K share these IRQs.



---- Owner of the only Dell computer with an AMD chip
August 10, 2001 7:47:53 AM

moo... TAH!

if in doubt blame microsoft...
August 10, 2001 10:51:00 AM

I did a search for 1800mhz, and got the first result, wanting to double check, I did a search for p4 scores from 1.4-2.0, to show fugger was lying.

~Matisaro~
"Friends don't let friends buy Pentiums"
~Tbird1.3@1.55~
August 10, 2001 10:54:26 AM

Yes peteb, 2ghz, FUGGER claimed his 1.8 was doing 7500, a claim I find to be dubious at best. SO I called him out. If he can show me a benchmark giving his rig a 7500 at 1.8ghz then I will apologize for calling him a liar.



~Matisaro~
"Friends don't let friends buy Pentiums"
~Tbird1.3@1.55~
August 10, 2001 11:25:26 AM

Yeah, but that guy who got 9k has a dry ice cooled gf3 running at 300/645 LOL. and the guy below him has a 156 watt peltier on his gf3.....damn....those people frighten me, and I overclock.

~Matisaro~
"Friends don't let friends buy Pentiums"
~Tbird1.3@1.55~
August 10, 2001 3:06:17 PM

Quote:
Dont forget the nForce. got my hopes set on that one..


Right, but since it's not out yet...



<font color=blue>Quarter pounder inside</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Change the Sig of the Week!!!</font color=red>
August 10, 2001 4:55:00 PM

Welp, 7500 was too easy. need to do some tweaks to break 8k easy too =) I see where 9k is possible at lower resolutions.

I got home late last night, ran the test once took a SS and went to bed.

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=1764271&a=13...

My first run with reference WHQL driver =)

BTW, I will setup madonion account when I get a safe email address, I did not want to use my home/work email address on madonion because its shown as my username. Last thing I need is for a genious here to post my home address and phone number on this forum, so gimme another day and Ill remake a madonion account thats safer for me to use. Im sure your wondering how to get that info, well its too easy if you know how. www.networksolutions.com and do a whoison email address. bam! you got someones personal info.

I think some lemmings owe me an appology!

Madonion reports incorrect Mhz, 15x120 =1.8Ghz not 1.76Ghz
August 10, 2001 5:39:20 PM

Wonder how long it'll take for someone to point out that the resolution wasn't showing...



<font color=blue>Quarter pounder inside</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Change the Sig of the Week!!!</font color=red>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
August 10, 2001 6:03:07 PM

Friggin pussy!
August 10, 2001 6:05:34 PM

Sorry to hear that you're in touble with your system. I have had mobos with VIA VP-2, VPX, MVP4, MVP3 and (currently) KT133 chipset and so far no problems. USB and IRQ sharing works perfectly with my ASUS A7V, I have 2 USB controllers and 2 NIC's sharing the same interrupt. I don't remember having any stability/compability problems with any of my past/present AMD/VIA-based systems. Sorry that I can't give you any helpful advice, I have never seriously used W2k (only once installed and played with it on 486 for a while :-) , my home/work computers are completely M$-free. IMHO it's kinda stupid to whine about how VIA/AMD/INTEL/etc. suck all the time (I think they don't).... now, flame on...
August 10, 2001 6:08:53 PM

/me checks the time.

12:39 - 11:55 == 44 minutes to point that out. :wink:

/me heads back to work.

Kelledin

"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."
August 10, 2001 6:11:52 PM

If you read my original post, I said "~7500" you know what a tilde is? now go look at my score and its 7360, with a little bit of tweaking to my video card speed I can pull the extra 120 points, with another adjustment to my FSB I can get even higher scores. god forbid I get latest drivers =P

Fatburger, you know that score owns you hardcore =)

When I create new account on madonion you will see resolutions and all the good stuff. until then take a chill pill.

Lets see your score, not even close huh? stfu then.
August 10, 2001 6:13:52 PM

Fugger, not to belabor the issue, but I don't see a 7500+ result. I see 7360, but that's not 7500+ or is this New Math?



When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
August 10, 2001 6:18:27 PM

Its a recievables calculator, omg.. Stop hitting the plus sign.

Could be in my favour 2
August 10, 2001 6:24:03 PM

LMAO what a MORON, learn what a ~ is please before you post more stupid [-peep-].

Like I said it was my first run @ almost 1am, I got home very late and I got back out of bed just to run madonion for you girls and when I do you girls cramp like its that time of the month.

face it, I posted a very impressive score with reference driver. why do you want to split hairs after I already said if im off by a few points DO NOT pull the [-peep-] your pulling.
August 10, 2001 6:50:30 PM

When I see mad onion benchmarks, showing its really a default run, THEN I will apologize, not a moment before.


~Matisaro~
"Friends don't let friends buy Pentiums"
~Tbird1.3@1.55~
August 10, 2001 7:00:51 PM

Quote:
7360, with a little bit of tweaking to my video card speed I can pull the extra 120 points,


To the best of my knowledge, that only adds up to 7480. Quit calling people morons. Learn basic arithmatic first. Your numbers and facts are always off and I think that's why people are riding your ass.

<font color=red>Change the sig of the week!</font color=red>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
August 10, 2001 7:06:31 PM

Yeah, fu*k ya, my time of the month not your's!
Oh boyo,
I must admit on my corporations main' I can get that score and higher Iam sure without trouble , but you are so full of it FUGGER.Wanna real agp no well fuc& u.. But I thought this was an enthusiast forum for people who want to know how to get the most out of their systems.

Bottom line dont post fugger!
August 10, 2001 7:10:52 PM

HAHAHAHA, better put a tampon in it!

You know I love when you get all flustered.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
August 10, 2001 7:13:29 PM

I knew you were understanding, thanx honey
August 10, 2001 7:32:31 PM

When I do post it at default score on madonion, Im sure you will say some other crap too, "you used a speed hack" or some [-peep-]. face it I beat that lame ass score that you said was "top score", by a long shot and thats without any tweaking other than my stable overclocked speed.

Another thing, I never said in my original post anything about default settings, I did say ~7500 where a score of 7360 falls into that catagory. now that I post a 7360 score at 1024x768x32 you whine about it. GG

Next you will tell me I used photoshop to edit that SS or some crap. get a life loser, you been beat and badly.

Excuse my typo, I am 140 short on my first run. Lemmings are so bent on proving me wrong that they will resort to obvious typos to make an angle of attack. lame indeed.

A few quotes for you

"ALSO, the highest p4 score of them ALL is 7442, and this comes from a p4 system running at 2ghz, now explain to us all master fugger, how you beat a comparable system by 70 pts with 200less mhz. LIAR" - Im at 1.8Ghz go figure

"Anyone who makes up benchmark results to make his weak system look better than others is a loser, even more so than fugger was before.....my respect for him lowered even further today"

"I did a search for 1800mhz, and got the first result, wanting to double check, I did a search for p4 scores from 1.4-2.0, to show fugger was lying."

"Yes peteb, 2ghz, FUGGER claimed his 1.8 was doing 7500, a claim I find to be dubious at best. SO I called him out. If he can show me a benchmark giving his rig a 7500 at 1.8ghz then I will apologize for calling him a liar."

Face it matisaro, you are owned hardcore. keep trying you might actually win a agruement one day.

Face it girls P4 scores are better than you thought and 7360 is my starting point, according to other posts I can hit 9k @ 640x480x16

Also, my processor is actually a OEM 1.5Ghz P4. Enjoy =)
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
August 10, 2001 7:41:33 PM

Fu_k it, whats the point even worrying about it, to high to play solitare. Who yer tryin to beat? Madonion is a good reference btw.
Only you know what it does and yer all out tryin to prove it. Thinx yer being sucked in, then again yer getting reasonable in recent times.... Time will tell..
August 10, 2001 7:56:49 PM

Letting it go, agreed.

No point in going any further with the attitudes of the non-believers here. getting suckered in vs being asked nicely are 2 differnt things. I see your point in not bowing to the hippocrits.
!