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You thought T-Birds where HOT!

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August 12, 2001 12:34:56 AM

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The 130W Itanium is viewed as a particularly difficult processor to implement according to many system builders because it is quite simply so hot.

<b><i>At 130 watts, the 0.18-micron Itanium dissipates significantly more heat than the 32-bit Pentium 4. "If you open up our [Dell PowerEdge] 7150 [a 7U server with four Itaniums], about two-thirds of that is fans," said Kevin Libert, director of Dell Computer Corp.'s Enterprise Systems Group. That's typical of many Itanium servers, said Libert, who maintained that the problem will persist with the 0.13-micron versions of Itanium. </b></i>
<A HREF="http://www.aceshardware.com/" target="_new">http://www.aceshardware.com/&lt;/A>

Jesh I thought my 1.2ghz @ 1.46ghz (85w) T-Bird was Hot! Not no more. Itanic melting Iceburgs. LOL. :smile:

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 08/11/01 08:37 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

More about : thought birds hot

August 12, 2001 1:01:34 AM

yeah, my TBIrd is 93W.

--
It's Princess Leia, the yodel of my life. Give me my sweater back or I'll play the guitar.
August 12, 2001 8:20:12 AM

well, they say it wont be too different even when the 0.13 micron chips arrive!

if its this hot, then you should have some means to use this dissipated energy instead of using some more just to blow it off.

you could have a coffee vending machine on top of a quad Itanium server. there will be frequent visits to the server and it will be a better way to indicate the server status is down or not. compaq, dell, hp, ibm listening???

<font color=blue>die-hard fans don't have heat-sinks!</font color=blue>
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August 12, 2001 12:02:48 PM

Better yet.....

put one on each worker's desk (programmers especially, of course) so they can use it as a coffee cup warmer (place the hot coffee cup on the case and it will keep it nice and warm!

Just think of the improvement in productivity!!!

Mark-

When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!
August 12, 2001 9:23:33 PM

LOL, it could be a new way for a hot water heater. You don't need gas no more, just energize the Itanic processor for all the hot water anyone needs. Problem is if not enough people use the hot water then the hot water heater would turn into a steam boiler and run turbines and stuff. Shoot, your house could be powered by Intel after all.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 08/12/01 07:36 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
August 13, 2001 12:39:47 AM

Ooh yeah!!!

Itanic Hot water heater!!

Could it heat enough water for common household things like.. baths, dishwasher, etc?

If so, that would seriously make the Itanium much more valuable for home use!

Another thing to use Itanium or any hot running CPU.....

In cold climates...

hand warmer!!!

Come in from the cold and rub your hands over top the CPU and they'll warm up in no time!!

Mark-

When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!
August 13, 2001 12:48:44 AM

i was thinking water heater yes.
you get an array of dual itaniums,
construct a large water bath, and connect up all the processors using parralel peltiers. bingo! hot water service.

seriously though... with that kinda heat output, how are they cooled? itst that getting beyond what any aircooler can do?

Quote from the Hamster: "Why is it that Morons are just smart enough to understand how to breed?"
August 13, 2001 12:28:21 PM

and Intel says the Itanum isnt targetted towards home use!

<font color=blue>die-hard fans don't have heat-sinks!</font color=blue>
August 13, 2001 12:47:31 PM

They do? I'm surprised since there are no 64 bit home apps, virtually no mainstream OS support (on the assumption that Joe family has windows or a MAC).

I though were in for about 2005 before 64 bit went mainstream, in which time Intel has plenty of time to refine their server chips for home use.

-* This Space For Rent *-
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August 13, 2001 1:12:36 PM

well, the Joe family will use their Windows 2000 on a dual Itanium machine (it supports IA-32 code right?), run SET@Home every morning to get their water hot and make them some coffee, little Joe will play Quake on it all day to keep their house warm and daddy Joe will work out his expenses and the budget in the evenings to cook their dinner!

what a multi purpose gadget just that its too expensive today for the Joe family even after they trade their water heater, coffee machine, the room heater, the stove and some cash to get this computer!

read the thread well yaar! we are discussing on a serious issue of Itanium heating problem and what could we do with the enormous heat the Itanium server could generate.

I thought you could contribute to this brain-storming thread instead of making silly technical arguments!

girish

<font color=blue>die-hard fans don't have heat-sinks!</font color=blue>
August 13, 2001 1:18:01 PM

no hard feelings... :smile: i know you are a Intel fan!

<font color=blue>die-hard fans don't have heat-sinks!</font color=blue>
August 13, 2001 1:23:55 PM

nope - Itanium is pure 64 bit only. The Hammer from AMD supposedly supports both but I personally suspect that it may do neither as well as could be achieved with 2 dedicated chips.

Anyway - if your really want to put those Itaniums to use, why not use them as steam generators for power plants? With the power shortage in Silicon Valley, use the heat from the cpus to make electricity to run the cpus...

-* This Space For Rent *-
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August 13, 2001 1:25:40 PM

me - an Intel fan? not really - I'm in the AMD camp at present, waiting to see if Northwood will release me or if nForce/SiS735 will keep me chained to the Athlon.

-* This Space For Rent *-
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August 13, 2001 2:09:08 PM

athlons are hand warmers... itaniums would burn

if in doubt blame microsoft...
August 13, 2001 2:11:35 PM

imagine using their heat sinks on an tbird or an mp... if it can keep the itanium cool enough to run... imagine the clock speed of an athlon running at 130 watts...

if in doubt blame microsoft...
August 13, 2001 2:17:42 PM

I just wonder how much heat my old overclocked Cyrix MII-300 generated. I was only running it at 231MHz vs the 225MHz spec. (Comp ran unstable at 75MHz FSB, so I had to run it at 3.5 * 66 instead of 3.0 * 75) I removed the fan from a power supply and hooked it up forcing air through a foam cup, directly into the Heatsink.... And it still overheated (POP!...Restart) Mostly just when playing AoE or AoK. Got in the habit of saving every 2 minutes.
August 13, 2001 2:19:55 PM

hehe...

PortaPowerPlant TM

I own the name Ha!

;P



When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!
August 14, 2001 2:08:55 AM

ive found my oc'ed athlon is more like a room heater.
combined with the psu & oldish 17" monitor my cold study room gets nice and toasty.


My hamster really wants to give you a big kiss, you sexy hunk you!
August 14, 2001 2:19:36 AM

I'm sorry but this thread is 100% lame! LOL!

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"
August 14, 2001 2:29:35 AM

How can you SAY that?!?!?!

Your nick fits right in!

Add some cheese to make it an AMDMeltSandwich! ;) 

better yet...an IttyMelt! ;) 

Sorry for the lapse of odd levity...the thread just seemed to go that way so I just wanted to add my odd twist of humor.

Mark-

When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!
August 14, 2001 2:37:12 AM

ROFLMAOSHICMPAADBAMISAI

--
It's Princess Leia, the yodel of my life. Give me my sweater back or I'll play the guitar.
August 14, 2001 5:43:21 AM

always though intel's wer the coolest chips?

Itanium is cool! eats 130W at just 800 MHz!

<font color=blue>die-hard fans don't have heat-sinks!</font color=blue>
August 14, 2001 7:03:07 AM

And how is this any less lame than your anti-AMD BS? :lol: 

Kelledin

"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."
August 14, 2001 7:23:05 AM

I wonder if the Itanic has thermal throttling??? It should, otherwise it may desolder its own socket in 2 seconds flat. Hey that would be good protection, chip gets too hot, socket drops from the motherboard. :lol: 

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 08/14/01 03:27 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
Anonymous
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August 14, 2001 8:15:49 AM

ROTFLMAO

<font color=blue>THG needs 2 change the sig' of the week errrr century!</font color=blue>
August 14, 2001 8:25:14 AM

What took you so long?

:smile: Good or Bad have no meaning at all, depends on what your point of view is.
August 14, 2001 9:03:05 AM

perfect... oh whats that... molten solder dripping on my foot... mmm lets eat it, maybe it contains lead! yay.... no seriously it would be a goot idea exept fot the fact that solder is conductive (obviously) and would short the board... otherwise pure genius... and intel can charge a fortune to reattach the slot...

if in doubt blame microsoft...
August 14, 2001 9:03:15 AM

perfect... oh whats that... molten solder dripping on my foot... mmm lets eat it, maybe it contains lead! yay.... no seriously it would be a goot idea exept fot the fact that solder is conductive (obviously) and would short the board... otherwise pure genius... and intel can charge a fortune to reattach the slot...

if in doubt blame microsoft...
August 14, 2001 9:40:10 AM

there were fan retension mechanisms, CPUI retention mechanisms, now we well have to invent a socket retention mechanisms!

btw solder melts too early, guess they should weld the CPU leads onto the motherboard!

girish

<font color=blue>die-hard fans don't have heat-sinks!</font color=blue>
August 14, 2001 3:12:34 PM

the CPUs will be welded to the board, fan and heat sinks bolted withn a inbuilt refridgeration unit that will run on the heat generated by the Itanium itself!

whoever said perpetual machines were impossible!

girish

<font color=blue>die-hard fans don't have heat-sinks!</font color=blue>
August 15, 2001 6:17:10 AM

he met IntelMeltDown!

<font color=blue>die-hard fans don't have heat-sinks!</font color=blue>
August 15, 2001 3:44:06 PM

How do you measure how much power the cpu is pulling?


<font color=red><i>Tomorrow I will live, the fool does say
today itself's too late; the wise lived yesterday
August 15, 2001 5:27:51 PM

its documented in the datasheets. so we have to believe what the manufacturer says. it would be nice if current drawn by a CPU is measured in PC health monitor, it would give you the amount of power drawn by the CPU!

girish

<font color=blue>die-hard fans don't have heat-sinks!</font color=blue>
August 16, 2001 10:02:03 PM

I use a program called Radiate in which you plug in your cpu, voltage and clock speed. It has other interesting info as well as in how effective your HSF is working etc.. Check it out. I don't have a link right now, if you can't find it I will find a link for you.
August 17, 2001 3:01:01 PM

well, does that program accurately show the amount of power drawn by the processor just by providing the CPU type, voltage and speed? I would prefer the display in real-time and not calculated by some predetermined formulae.

Its imperative that we use some kind of current measuring device and a voltage measuring device just like a thermal sensor (the CPU itself could be equipped with such circuitry) and provide real time data on its power consumption.

just how many would be interested in using this data?

its important to note that the amount of power a CPU draws is continuously varying, according to the job it is doing. then todays CPUs use at least two voltages, one in teh core and other for I/O! how will you calculate the individual power consumption between the I/O circuits and the core?

hence, we have to believe what the manufacturers say in their data sheets.

girish

<font color=blue>die-hard fans don't have heat-sinks!</font color=blue>
August 17, 2001 10:08:28 PM

You can take a clamp on amp meter and measure the 5v line from the power supply. Otherwise there are no inbuilt sensors to measure actual cpu current flow. Using a heat balance equation taking the Delta T (temperture) of the air entering and leaving the HSF and air flowrate you will be able to calculate an accurate heat load or power being converted from electrical to heat in the cpu. Once you know the power of the cpu with the voltage then it is a simple power equation to calculate current, P = VI => I = P/V.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 08/17/01 06:10 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
August 18, 2001 4:49:15 AM

the power line from teh SMPS will measure the current drawn by the motherboard, not the CPU.you will need a special adapter socket that can measure the current as well as the voltage on the processor's power pins and thus we get the total power drawn. you are right, its P=VxI.

btw the heat dissipated at the heatsink (and its temperature) wont accurately provide the power data since the heatsink alone does not dissipate the heat, even the CPU package, socket and the board underneath will take their small share.

all these will give tentative values. for accurate values, we will need either 1. a current resistor for each of the voltage lines that will give the exact amount of current drawn on the two voltage lines, or 2. a special adapter that will have this current resistor and a voltage probe as well as the temperature probe that will sit into the CPU socket.

I guess the later option is more viable than wait for Intel or AMD to incorporate this current resistor in their future chips!

girish


<font color=blue>die-hard fans don't have heat-sinks!</font color=blue>
August 20, 2001 1:46:45 AM

As far as I know the CPU, USB and the AGP card onboard memory are the only three components that uses the 5v line from the power supply. I do believe the memory for for the AGP card is rated up to 500ma, not sure of the USB port specs but in any case predominately the amps on the 5v line would be going to the CPU. So taking a amp reading there should give you a very good amp reading of the cpu, combined with the onboard voltage detection, a relatively accurate power consumption of the cpu should be possible. I agree that some heat is lost from cpu to motherboard but relistically it is probably less then 5% (my estimate). Still getting an accurate air flow reading from the cpu HSF (using a manometer) would be difficult and costly. Temperture of the air would be simple to measure.
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