Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

reloading query

Last response: in Video Games
Share
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 9:38:15 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

Ok, I've got all the gear, and have had my first cock up. :-) Nothing
broken, nothing damaged. (Though I've learned not to not bother lubricating
the cases when depriming!!!)
So, when it comes to sizing the cases, I've got the chamfer and cutting
thingy from lee. I've got a digital caliper to measure the length of the
cases. I've managed to de-prime all of the spent cases, and found that once
I'd done about ten the rest popped out a lot easier than the first, which
required some effort. I've even run a whole pod of propellant through the
powder measure thing (as the manual said) to get rid of static...

So, the next thing for me to do is to figure out exactly how big the cases
should be length wise. I'm sure I read somewhere that each gun is unique, so
somehow I have to use my rifle to judge what uniform size the cases should
be. How do I do this precisely? I'm sure someone said I have to keep
trimming and rechecking with the first case to get the right length, and
then measure that case before making the rest the same size. Is that right?
Makes sense, but how do I know when the first case *is* the right size?

When this is done I'll do that bit then ask the next question when I get to
it! :-)

Cheers,

Ross.


--
CBR600RR (Broken)
TFSTR#[1]

More about : reloading query

September 21, 2004 11:53:01 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

"Filth" <rossnoades@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:cipou7$gq8$1@hercules.btinternet.com:

> Ok, I've got all the gear, and have had my first cock up. :-) Nothing
> broken, nothing damaged. (Though I've learned not to not bother
> lubricating the cases when depriming!!!)




Hey hold on tiger!


> So, when it comes to sizing the cases,

You deprime and re-size using the same die and all at the same time.
Read your reloading manual.


> I've got the chamfer and
> cutting thingy from lee. I've got a digital caliper to measure the
> length of the cases. I've managed to de-prime all of the spent cases,
> and found that once I'd done about ten the rest popped out a lot
> easier than the first, which required some effort.

This could be a problem.


I've even run a
> whole pod of propellant through the powder measure thing (as the
> manual said) to get rid of static...
>
> So, the next thing for me to do is to figure out exactly how big the
> cases should be length wise.

You have the Lee book? You’re reloading .223? Look at page 195. The case
should be 1.760” (OAL).


>I'm sure I read somewhere that each gun
> is unique, so somehow I have to use my rifle to judge what uniform
> size the cases should be.

Ross, you NEED to take a step back. Re-read the reloading manual and do
not load and ammunition yet. Your playing with fire and you will get
burned.


> How do I do this precisely?

You are thinking of fire formed cases. These are cases that have been
shot in your rifle. You re-size the neck only. I am guessing you are
using full length re-sizing dies, in which case you can not make the
cases unique to your rifle. Read chapter 2 in your Lee book.


> I'm sure
> someone said I have to keep trimming and rechecking with the first
> case to get the right length, and then measure that case before
> making the rest the same size. Is that right?

Use your callipers to measure the case length from base to top (neck
opening), what size is it?
Let’s say it’s 1.8”, Read chapter 2 (case trimming). Use your lee case
trimmer to reduce the case size down to say 1.755”. De-burr the case and
your done.



> Makes sense, but how do
> I know when the first case *is* the right size?

Ross, you honestly need to re-read the book.

>
> When this is done I'll do that bit then ask the next question when I
> get to it! :-)

No problem.

John
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 1:09:28 AM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

In message <Xns956BD46F5972AOEcopyremovedheaders@130.133.1.4>, John
<zero_one34@hotmail.com> writes
>"Filth" <rossnoades@hotmail.com> wrote in
>news:cipou7$gq8$1@hercules.btinternet.com:

>> So, when it comes to sizing the cases,
>
>You deprime and re-size using the same die and all at the same time.
>Read your reloading manual.

Depends on whether he's using a universal de-capping die, or a resizing
die (and then whether the resizing die is neck only or full length). A
universal de-capping die accepts all cartridges and the cartridge does
not touch the die sides.

>> I've got the chamfer and
>> cutting thingy from lee.

Case trimmer. This is for trimming the length of the case neck back to
a fixed length, so that it fits the chamber properly. You see, when a
case is full-length re-sized it become longer and has to be trimmed to
keep it within spec. If the case OAL is too long, then the case mouth
can be crimped by the forward end of the chamber, resulting in
dangerously high pressures.

>> So, the next thing for me to do is to figure out exactly how big the
>> cases should be length wise.
>
>You have the Lee book? You're reloading .223? Look at page 195. The case
>should be 1.760� (OAL).

He's talking about headspace, not OAL (see below).

>>I'm sure I read somewhere that each gun
>> is unique, so somehow I have to use my rifle to judge what uniform
>> size the cases should be.
>
>Ross, you NEED to take a step back. Re-read the reloading manual and do
>not load and ammunition yet. Your playing with fire and you will get
>burned.

Agreed that he needs to tread carefully.
>> How do I do this precisely?
>
>You are thinking of fire formed cases. T

Close, but that isn't what he's asking about. He's asking about
headspace. He answer to his question is this. Adjust your resizing die
so that it contacts the shell holder when the press' ram is fully
raised. Then try chambering the re-sized cartridge in your rifle (wipe
off the lubricant first). Now back off the die a bit (i.e. turn it
counter clockwise a few millimetres and re-secure it). Resize another
case and see how it fits in the rifle. If you feel more resistance when
closing the bolt, it indicates that the cartridge has longer "headspace"
(this is the distance from the bolt face to a datum point on the
shoulder). Do a few more test cases and if there is consistent
residence then screw in the die a touch until the resistance vanishes.
At this point, your cartridge's headspace is a thousandth (of an inch)
or so shorter than the chamber's headspace. And that's good for
accuracy and case life.


--
--Jonathan

"Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel."
Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928
Related resources
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 10:03:25 AM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

>>> So, when it comes to sizing the cases,
>>
>> You deprime and re-size using the same die and all at the same time.
>> Read your reloading manual.
>
> Depends on whether he's using a universal de-capping die, or a
> resizing die (and then whether the resizing die is neck only or full
> length). A universal de-capping die accepts all cartridges and the
> cartridge does not touch the die sides.

I've got the lee dies, the ones that come in a red tub. The de-priming and
trimming is done seperately. There's one die which is solely for de-priming.
UNfortunately after depriming the first case, the second one got stuck. The
pin that pushes the primer out was too low and so the case got wedged in by
the larger part of the pin (which stretches the case neck) pushing itself
into the primer socket. I didn't realise this could happen, but now I have
been shown exactly where the pin should prtrude to I ave adjusted it
accordingly and have had no problems since. Strangely though, the first few
cases through wer rather stiff on the challenger press lever, whereas after
those first few it became remarkably easy to deprime and extremely smooth.
Maybe it needed breaking in, or the first cases gave the inside of the
de-priming die some extra needed lube. I'll experiment by adding lube to the
inside of the de-priming die when I de-prime the next batch...


>>> I've got the chamfer and
>>> cutting thingy from lee.
>
> Case trimmer. This is for trimming the length of the case neck back
> to a fixed length, so that it fits the chamber properly. You see,
> when a case is full-length re-sized it become longer and has to be
> trimmed to keep it within spec. If the case OAL is too long, then
> the case mouth can be crimped by the forward end of the chamber,
> resulting in dangerously high pressures.

When the case expands during firing and is lengthened slightly, which part
of the case lengthens most, or does the whole thing stretch equally? I'm
asking because I wouldn't want the neck length to be longer on one case
which has been used less than that of another. Hopefully I'll keep all cases
so that they are fired the same amount of times for better consistency...

>>> So, the next thing for me to do is to figure out exactly how big the
>>> cases should be length wise.
>>
>> You have the Lee book? You're reloading .223? Look at page 195. The
>> case should be 1.760" (OAL).
>
> He's talking about headspace, not OAL (see below).
>
>>> I'm sure I read somewhere that each gun
>>> is unique, so somehow I have to use my rifle to judge what uniform
>>> size the cases should be.
>>
>> Ross, you NEED to take a step back. Re-read the reloading manual and
>> do not load and ammunition yet. Your playing with fire and you will
>> get burned.
>
> Agreed that he needs to tread carefully.
>>> How do I do this precisely?
>>
>> You are thinking of fire formed cases. T
>
> Close, but that isn't what he's asking about. He's asking about
> headspace. He answer to his question is this. Adjust your resizing
> die so that it contacts the shell holder when the press' ram is fully
> raised. Then try chambering the re-sized cartridge in your rifle
> (wipe off the lubricant first). Now back off the die a bit (i.e.
> turn it counter clockwise a few millimetres and re-secure it). Resize
> another case and see how it fits in the rifle. If you feel
> more resistance when closing the bolt, it indicates that the
> cartridge has longer "headspace" (this is the distance from the bolt
> face to a datum point on the shoulder). Do a few more test cases and
> if there is consistent residence then screw in the die a touch until
> the resistance vanishes. At this point, your cartridge's headspace is
> a thousandth (of an inch) or so shorter than the chamber's headspace.
> And that's good for accuracy and case life.

That's what I was asking about :-) The cases I have fired and are now fire
formed, will they definitley be too long for my rifle's chamber and provide
resistance when the bolt is pushed forward, thus needing trimming?

Thanks again,

Ross.

--
CBR600RR (Broken)
TFSTR#[1]
September 22, 2004 10:09:57 AM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

Jonathan Spencer <jms@NOTMEjonathan-spencer.co.uk> wrote in
news:Mt2lYUClhJUBFwsx@salvage.demon.co.uk:

>>You deprime and re-size using the same die and all at the same time.
>>Read your reloading manual.
>
> Depends on whether he's using a universal de-capping die

Jon, Ross has only just started to reload and will almost certainly but
using standard Lee dies.
I might stand corrected.


>>You are thinking of fire formed cases. T
>
> Close, but that isn't what he's asking about. He's asking about
> headspace.

Again, I would very much doubt that Ross will be concerned with
headspace at this stage and I think will become even more confused at
the thought of shifting dies up and down in the press to vary case
sizing.
All he has to do is read the Lee book and set his dies up as described,
that will take care of any headspace issues for now. Let’s not try and
confuse Ross at this stage of play and help him to simply reload
accurate universal ammunition.


John
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 11:36:19 AM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

In message <cir4jd$3gf$1@titan.btinternet.com>, Filth
<rossnoades@hotmail.com> writes

>I've got the lee dies, the ones that come in a red tub. The de-priming and
>trimming is done seperately. There's one die which is solely for de-priming.
>UNfortunately after depriming the first case, the second one got stuck. The
>pin that pushes the primer out was too low and so the case got wedged in by
>the larger part of the pin (which stretches the case neck) pushing itself
>into the primer socket.

That's a resizing die which also de-caps. Are you (lightly) lubricating
your cases? You should be.

>I didn't realise this could happen, but now I have
>been shown exactly where the pin should prtrude to I ave adjusted it
>accordingly and have had no problems since.

Checks that you haven't bent hte shaft.

>Strangely though, the first few
>cases through wer rather stiff on the challenger press lever, whereas after
>those first few it became remarkably easy to deprime and extremely smooth.
>Maybe it needed breaking in, or the first cases gave the inside of the
>de-priming die some extra needed lube.

YOu're very lucky the cases didn't jam inside the die. You must lightly
lubricate the cases outside, and preferably inside the neck

>I'll experiment by adding lube to the
>inside of the de-priming die when I de-prime the next batch...

You do not lubricate the die. If you use too much lube you will get
dents on the case shoulder.

>>>> I've got the chamfer and
>>>> cutting thingy from lee.
>>
>> Case trimmer. This is for trimming the length of the case neck back
>> to a fixed length, so that it fits the chamber properly. You see,
>> when a case is full-length re-sized it become longer and has to be
>> trimmed to keep it within spec. If the case OAL is too long, then
>> the case mouth can be crimped by the forward end of the chamber,
>> resulting in dangerously high pressures.
>
>When the case expands during firing and is lengthened slightly, which part
>of the case lengthens most, or does the whole thing stretch equally?

Your reloading manual should explain all of this. If it doesn't, go and
buy another manual such as the Vihtavouri or Hornady manuals. The case
expands just ahead of the web (at the case head) and when it is resized
that is squeezed back in, and the case become longer (as well and
getting thinner at the web).

>I'm
>asking because I wouldn't want the neck length to be longer on one case
>which has been used less than that of another. Hopefully I'll keep all cases
>so that they are fired the same amount of times for better consistency...

The case neck doesn't get longer, the body gets longer but the only
place you can trim is the neck. The full-length resizing keeps the case
consistent.

>> Close, but that isn't what he's asking about. He's asking about
>> headspace.

>That's what I was asking about :-) The cases I have fired and are now fire
>formed, will they definitley be too long for my rifle's chamber

I wouldn't have thought so, not for a moment. Have you tried
re-chambering them (before resizing)?

>and provide
>resistance when the bolt is pushed forward, thus needing trimming?

No. Trimming is to reduce overall length, not headspace. Measure the
OAL with a calliper. They won't need trimming after each firing, only
when the exceed the maximum OAL. If they are within specification for
OAL, and you feel abnormal resistance on closing the bolt, then you need
to lower your die slightly to reduce the headspace. Frankly, if you set
up your die in accordance with the manual, you should not have any
problems.

--
--Jonathan

"Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel."
Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928
September 22, 2004 1:43:04 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 07:36:19 GMT, Jonathan Spencer
<jms@NOTMEjonathan-spencer.co.uk> wrote:

> You must lightly lubricate the cases outside, and preferably inside the neck
>

I believe that it is important not to lube the outside of the neck,
although to honest I'm not sure why!


--
Mark

http://www.gunculture.net

"the subjects... may have arms for their defence"
English Bill of Rights
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 4:45:38 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

> That's a resizing die which also de-caps.

I'm aware that it makes the neck wider for easier bullet seating prior to
crimping, how else does it re-size?

> YOu're very lucky the cases didn't jam inside the die. You must
> lightly lubricate the cases outside, and preferably inside the neck

After the second case through i lubed all the cases inside and out. The next
few rounds after were not wanting to de prime and then it became very easy.
Either way the last 15 cases were de-primed nice and smoothly so hopefully
it'll continue that way :-)

>> I'll experiment by adding lube to the
>> inside of the de-priming die when I de-prime the next batch...
> You do not lubricate the die. If you use too much lube you will get
> dents on the case shoulder.

Fair dos. I presume some lube must transfer from the cases to the inside of
the die though...

>> The cases I have fired are
>> now fire formed, will they definitley be too long for my rifle's
>> chamber
>
> I wouldn't have thought so, not for a moment. Have you tried
> re-chambering them (before resizing)?

Not yet but I'm going to.

>> and provide
>> resistance when the bolt is pushed forward, thus needing trimming?
>
> No. Trimming is to reduce overall length, not headspace. Measure the
> OAL with a calliper. They won't need trimming after each firing, only
> when the exceed the maximum OAL. If they are within specification for
> OAL, and you feel abnormal resistance on closing the bolt, then you
> need to lower your die slightly to reduce the headspace. Frankly, if
> you set up your die in accordance with the manual, you should not
> have any problems.

Is headspace not the distance between the tip of the case at the front and
the furthest forward that the case may go in the rifle's chamber? That was
my understanding of headspace, and so the way to increase it is to trim the
tip of the case to make the OAL shorter. I didn't realise trimming would
reduce OAL and not headspace. Would you mind explaining exactly what
headspace is please, and then eveything you've been saying in your last two
posts should make perfect sense to me!

Cheers as always guys,

Ross.

--
CBR600RR (Broken)
TFSTR#[1]
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 5:02:24 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

>>> You deprime and re-size using the same die and all at the same time.
>>> Read your reloading manual.
>>
>> Depends on whether he's using a universal de-capping die
>
> Jon, Ross has only just started to reload and will almost certainly
> but using standard Lee dies.
> I might stand corrected.

Nail on head.

>>> You are thinking of fire formed cases. T
>>
>> Close, but that isn't what he's asking about. He's asking about
>> headspace.
>
> Again, I would very much doubt that Ross will be concerned with
> headspace at this stage and I think will become even more confused at
> the thought of shifting dies up and down in the press to vary case
> sizing.

Ok, to clear it up. I thought that the reason cases were trimmed was because
they expanded when fired, stretching them longer. There's only a certain
amount of room inside the rifle chamber, and we want the round to fit 100%
perfectly. (Not that that will be achieved!). When the round is pushed
forward by the bolt, the neck will reach the rear of the barrel, and if
possible wants to be as close to it as possible without being pressed
against it. The distance the tip of the neck is away from touching I thought
was called headspace. I thought trimming was done to keep the case necks
with minimal and consistent headspace when loaded.

> All he has to do is read the Lee book and set his dies up as
> described, that will take care of any headspace issues for now. Let's
> not try and confuse Ross at this stage of play and help him to simply
> reload accurate universal ammunition.
> John

Hopefully once the "What is headspace?" query is resolved I can realise I
don't need to know about it and can carry on reloading without worrying
about it :-)
As you correctly state, the main thing is that I reload safe and accurate
ammunition consistently, and understand the very basics of reloading.
There's no point me performing an action when reloading if I don't know why
I'm doing it, as I'll not learn about the science!
I know I'm not going to pick up everything straight away, but as each
question gets answered by yourselves I'm using your experience to better
understand what the equipment and I are doing and so am less likely to make
errors.
I mentioned the stuck case because it's a bit of experience from me that may
help you and others. You lot may have always done it by the book and never
had a stuck case, but because of me you might now realise that lube isn't a
gimmick, it is much needed! If you speak to someone else whose challenger
press is rather stiff on the first few uses, you can say you heard of
someone else who had that, but after a few cases had passed through it eased
up and was smooth as a baby's bottom :-)
I also mentioned it so that you'd know I've learned about lube now, and it's
necessity doesn't need to be told to me!!! :-D

I'm enjoying this immensely, and your help is much needed and appreciated as
in every other topic I bring up and seek advice/information on. The beauty
of it is, my friends are seeing what I'm doing and getting interested in the
sport. Not so much for game shooting, but for targets and game shooting
every now and again. It allows them to better understand what goes on in the
shooting world and make them less likely to be one of the antis that know
nothing about what we do and why. Like my mum, I think they just like to
moan. ;) 

Cheers,

Ross.

--
CBR600RR (Broken)
TFSTR#[1]
September 22, 2004 5:31:30 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

"Filth" <rossnoades@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:cirs5i$473$1@titan.btinternet.com:

>
> Fair dos. I presume some lube must transfer from the cases to the
> inside of the die though...

The main reason you lube the cases is to protect your dies. Without
lubrication you will scrape the inside of your dies and seize the whole
thing which will result in a bent de-capping rod.
Use a mat (a piece of camping mat works well but you can also buy a
specially designed one as well), which has a light coating of re-sizing
lube. Roll your cases on the mat to transfer the lube, again you only
need a light coating. Use an old bore mop to lube the inside of the
neck, this will easy the job of resizing and protect your de-capping
rod.

> Is headspace not the distance between the tip of the case at the
> front and the furthest forward that the case may go in the rifle's
> chamber?

Ross, don’t worry about headspace, it has very little to do with
anything at the start of reloading and it will confuse you. Reloading is
a simple operation.
Head space is the distance from your bolt face to the base of the case
(where the primer fit’s in). You can play around with your dies but
don’t worry about it.
Set your dies as described in your reloading manual, page 154 and if you
want my advice, forget you have ever read anything about headspace for
now.


> That was my understanding of headspace, and so the way to
> increase it is to trim the tip of the case to make the OAL shorter.

Frankly if you start worrying about headspace and moving dies, your
going to end up blowing yourself up!
What you need to do, is resize your cases (which will also de-prime them
and remove the spent primer). Measure the length of your resized case
and compare the measurement to that given in the reloading manual ( 1.76
“ ). If your case is longer then you will need to trim the case down
with your lee case trimmer.

>I
> didn't realise trimming would reduce OAL and not headspace.

Over all length and head space are different things. When you resize a
case, you will increase the length of it. The neck of the case will
increase in length (what ever anyone tells you and if necessary I’ll
send you two cases with two different length necks). If you failed to
trim the neck that was too long, when you chambered a round, you would
push the neck in to the rifling thus crimping it around the base of the
bullet; in effect you would be forcing the neck in to your barrel. This
can result in high pressure building up, which could blow you and your
rifle up! Headspace is the distance between the face of your bolt and
the rear of your case, too much headspace can be dangerous, too little
and you’ll not chamber the round.
Simply set your dies up as described in the book and forget about
headspace.


> Would you
> mind explaining exactly what headspace is please, and then eveything
> you've been saying in your last two posts should make perfect sense
> to me!

Trust me Ross, you think it will but it will only serve to confuse you
even more.

John
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 5:49:57 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

>> Would you
>> mind explaining exactly what headspace is please, and then eveything
>> you've been saying in your last two posts should make perfect sense
>> to me!
> Trust me Ross, you think it will but it will only serve to confuse you
> even more.
> John

S'ok, you already explained it earlier in your post when you said this :

>Headspace is the distance between the
> face of your bolt and the rear of your case, too much headspace can
> be dangerous, too little and you'll not chamber the round.

I thought it was at the other end! I'm now going to study page 154 and
re-read everything else in there :-)

--
CBR600RR (Broken)
TFSTR#[1]
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 5:57:47 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

Page 154 isn't the right page. I've got the Lee Modern Reloading book,
second edition. 154 relates to the powder charts for a 30-06 springfield
firing 190 grain bullets :-/
I'll find the right page! (Does it have a heading in case I'm feeling
dense?)
Ross.

--
CBR600RR (Broken)
TFSTR#[1]
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 6:24:39 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

> Page 154 isn't the right page.

Page 27 has a copy of an instruction manual, where it says:
1 Install Shell holer
2 Install sizing die. While holding the handle against the stop, screw the
die in until it touches the shell holder, then release pressure from the
handle and screw the dies in an additional 1/4 to 1/3 of a turn. Now while
holding the die tighten the lock ring. NOTE: Carbide dies should not be
screwed in the additional 1/4 to 1/3 turn.

I assume this is what you were referring to?

Ross.

--
CBR600RR (Broken)
TFSTR#[1]
September 22, 2004 6:29:58 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

"Filth" <rossnoades@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:cis0cq$les$1@hercules.btinternet.com:

> Page 154 isn't the right page. I've got the Lee Modern
Reloading
> book, second edition. 154 relates to the powder charts for a
30-06
> springfield firing 190 grain bullets :-/
> I'll find the right page! (Does it have a heading in case
I'm feeling
> dense?)
> Ross.

I have Lee Modern Reloading but I’m not sure if it’s the
second edition.

Try Chapter 11, Challenger press Or simply follow the
instruction on the leaflet that came with your dies.

John
September 22, 2004 6:32:30 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

"Filth" <rossnoades@hotmail.com> wrote in news:cirvu5$e2q$1
@sparta.btinternet.com:

>>> Would you
>>> mind explaining exactly what headspace is please, and then
eveything
>>> you've been saying in your last two posts should make
perfect sense
>>> to me!
>> Trust me Ross, you think it will but it will only serve to
confuse you
>> even more.
>> John
>
> S'ok, you already explained it earlier in your post when you
said this :
>
>>Headspace is the distance between the
>> face of your bolt and the rear of your case, too much
headspace can
>> be dangerous, too little and you'll not chamber the round.
>
> I thought it was at the other end! I'm now going to study
page 154 and
> re-read everything else in there :-)

Good idea! You should note that measurement of the head space
is a different matter all together.
Technically headspace is the distance from the face of the
bolt to the datum point on the cartridge for what it’s worth
but honestly put it to the back of your mind.

John
September 22, 2004 6:33:52 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

"Filth" <rossnoades@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:cis1v7$c9q$1@titan.btinternet.com:

>> Page 154 isn't the right page.
>
> Page 27 has a copy of an instruction manual, where it says:
> 1 Install Shell holer
> 2 Install sizing die. While holding the handle against the
stop,
> screw the die in until it touches the shell holder, then
release
> pressure from the handle and screw the dies in an additional
1/4 to
> 1/3 of a turn. Now while holding the die tighten the lock
ring. NOTE:
> Carbide dies should not be screwed in the additional 1/4 to
1/3 turn.
>
> I assume this is what you were referring to?


Yes! Just follow the instructions :) 

John
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 6:46:56 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

In message <Xns956C93C60577FOEcopyremovedheaders@130.133.1.4>, John
<zero_one34@hotmail.com> writes

>Head space is the distance from your bolt face to the base of the case
>(where the primer fit's in).

No it isn't. Headspace (in a rimless bottle-necked cartridge) is the
distance from the cartridge case head to a datum point on the shoulder.
In the rifle, it is the distance from the bolt face to a datum point in
the chamber's shoulder.

>> That was my understanding of headspace, and so the way to
>> increase it is to trim the tip of the case to make the OAL shorter.
>
> Frankly if you start worrying about headspace and moving dies, your
>going to end up blowing yourself up!

No he isn't, not if he's using a factory rifle and factory dies and
trims the cartridges to the correct trim-to length where necessary. If
he incorrectly adjusts his dies for headspace he'll either end up with
cartridges that are too long at the shoulder (i.e. the cartridge has
excessive headspace) and he won't be able to close the bolt or, at
worse, cartridges that are a wee bit short in headspace (e.g. 0.010")
and he may experience misfires. He isn't going to blow himself up.

>What you need to do, is resize your cases (which will also de-prime them
>and remove the spent primer). Measure the length of your resized case
>and compare the measurement to that given in the reloading manual ( 1.76
>" ). If your case is longer then you will need to trim the case down
>with your lee case trimmer.

Yup, and if he correctly adjusts his dies he can forget about headspace
for the time being.

>If you failed to
>trim the neck that was too long, when you chambered a round, you would
>push the neck in to the rifling thus crimping it around the base of the
>bullet; in effect you would be forcing the neck in to your barrel. This
>can result in high pressure building up, which could blow you and your
>rifle up!

That is true, and has happened. Hence, measure the length of the cases
(from the base to the mouth) and if any exceed the specified length trim
them to the correct trim-to length. And breathe, ... and relax. :-)

--
--Jonathan

"Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel."
Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928
September 22, 2004 6:56:45 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

Jonathan Spencer <jms@jonathan-spencer.co.uk> wrote in
news:xNvqA+EC2YUBFwZt@salvage.demon.co.uk:

> In message <Xns956C93C60577FOEcopyremovedheaders@
130.133.1.4>, John
> <zero_one34@hotmail.com> writes
>
>>Head space is the distance from your bolt face to the base
of the
>>case (where the primer fit’s in).
>
> No it isn't. Headspace (in a rimless bottle-necked
cartridge) is the
> distance from the cartridge case head to a datum point on
the
> shoulder. In the rifle, it is the distance from the bolt
face to a
> datum point in the chamber's shoulder.

Jon,

Ross is very new to reloading so do your best to keep it
simple.
As for head space, try reading another post of mine and you
will see that I have stated what you have stated but 10
minuets ago!
As long as Ross, now understands the difference between OAL
and Headspace and isn’t confused over what he has to do, then
that’s fine by me.
I am not going to enter into a long and drawn out discussion
over headspace, it’s quite irrelevant to what Ross needed to
know last night or today. I personally full understand
headspace in cartridges, I used my example to explain as
simply as possible. The effect being exactly the same as for a
rimmed case. The shoulder simply acts as the rim and the
distance from the base of the cartridge to the bolt face is in
effect the headspace, however the measurement differs, in
essence the result is the same and the effect is the same.

John
September 23, 2004 1:08:08 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 14:46:56 GMT, Jonathan Spencer
<jms@jonathan-spencer.co.uk> wrote:

>He isn't going to blow himself up.
>

Sounds like a challenge!

--
Mark

http://www.gunculture.net

"the subjects... may have arms for their defence"
English Bill of Rights
!