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Another Lamping Accident

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Anonymous
September 24, 2004 12:58:49 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/west_yorkshi...

Are we taking bets on how long before the Mail, Sun and Express start
a campaign to ban lamping, and how long before the government pushes
through a hast and ill-conceived bill?

Nick

More about : lamping accident

Anonymous
September 24, 2004 10:16:45 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/west_yorkshi...
>
>
> What's going on?
>
> In all my years of lamping I have never heard of so many accidents.
>
> John

The people trying to ban hunting are now going out with guns and shooting
innocent people to try to get shooting banned altogether. That or the papers
are printing EVERY shooting accident whereas before they left a few out?

--
CBR600RR (Broken)
TFSTR#[1]
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Anonymous
September 24, 2004 10:40:15 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

>Subject: Re: Another Lamping Accident
>From: John zero_one34@hotmail.com
>Date: 24/09/2004 18:26 GMT

>What's going on?
>
>In all my years of lamping I have never heard of so many accidents.

Tis very odd, very odd.

Steve. Suffolk.
remove 'knujon' to e-mail
September 25, 2004 12:03:02 AM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

an6530@aol.comknujon (AN6530) wrote in
news:20040924144015.15823.00001153@mb-m28.aol.com:

>>Subject: Re: Another Lamping Accident
>>From: John zero_one34@hotmail.com
>>Date: 24/09/2004 18:26 GMT
>
>>What’s going on?
>>
>>In all my years of lamping I have never heard of so many accidents.
>
> Tis very odd, very odd.


I would guess that just about every sportsman the UK over has read about
the resent lamping accidents. Surely people must have learned something
by now.
Ross is quite right. The papers will print every shooting accident but
even so, the papers have always printed anything adverse towards
shooting sports. This is something very different. Three accidents
whilst lamping in as many weeks, something’s amiss.
I haven’t started my lamping season proper yet but when I do, you can
bet the rules of lamping will be well and truly reinforced because of
the resent accidents.
I took the dogs out for a spot of lamping tonight, only a quick trip out
(less than 10 minuets in fact) and the score? Dog’s 1 rabbits 0 ?
The youngest is really coming on and thank the lord, isn’t a bone
cruncher!
There is something about watching your dog work, it’s not a perverse
deep-seated Neanderthal reaction as some would lead people to believe.
It’s the look on the dogs face after a successful course, pride I think.
It makes me feel on top of the world and the dogs’ are happy too.

John
Anonymous
September 25, 2004 2:11:01 AM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

On 24 Sep 2004 17:26:32 GMT, John
<zero_one34@hotmail.com> wrote:

>nstrug@yahoo.com (Nick Strugnell) wrote in
>news:9762d28.0409240758.6852227d@posting.google.com:
>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/west_yorkshi...
>
>
>What’s going on?
>
>In all my years of lamping I have never heard of so many accidents.
>
>John

Well... For years each generation has claimed
that the one following it is more stupid. Now we are -
perhaps - sadly beginning to see proof. And we're
running out of those old boys who taught youngsters to
shoot and gave them hell if they were the least bit
careless because they had seen more than their fair
share of dead men in two world wars.

Maybe it's just a reflection of society in
general. Maybe I'm just feeling like a crabby old git
because I had a rather unpleasant run-in last night
with a barking mad little scrote who I wouldn't trust
with anything more lethal than a feather duster.

Perhaps - and this could be truly relevant - in
this increasingly technological age too many people are
relying on the equipment to do everything and not using
their own brains/instincts.

Gyppo

John Craggs - Writer - Adult Tutor - Storyteller
and All-Round Rogue
Need a laugh? Then subscribe to the free Monday Silly Digest:
mail to: gyppo1@ntlworld.com With 'MSD SUB' as subject.
Anonymous
September 25, 2004 1:17:06 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

>Perhaps - and this could be truly relevant - in>this increasingly
technological age too many people are>relying on the equipment to do everything
and not using>their own brains/instincts.

I think there may just be a grain of truth in that observation, look at the
"friendly fire" incidents in Iraq, they rely so much on technology now, ie;
IFF, identification, friend or foe, that nobody uses their eyes, ears or
instinct anymore, cheers, Norman.
Anonymous
September 25, 2004 6:15:14 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

"J Craggs" <gyppo1@NOSPAMPLEASEOLDCHAPntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:9c09l0dv21idfmlf2728ei6ber6v27m66k@4ax.com...
> On 24 Sep 2004 17:26:32 GMT, John
> <zero_one34@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >nstrug@yahoo.com (Nick Strugnell) wrote in
> >news:9762d28.0409240758.6852227d@posting.google.com:
> >
> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/west_yorkshi...
> >
> >
> >What's going on?
> >
> >In all my years of lamping I have never heard of so many accidents.
> >
> >John
>
> Well... For years each generation has claimed
> that the one following it is more stupid. Now we are -
> perhaps - sadly beginning to see proof. And we're
> running out of those old boys who taught youngsters to
> shoot and gave them hell if they were the least bit
> careless because they had seen more than their fair
> share of dead men in two world wars.
>
> Maybe it's just a reflection of society in
> general. Maybe I'm just feeling like a crabby old git
> because I had a rather unpleasant run-in last night
> with a barking mad little scrote who I wouldn't trust
> with anything more lethal than a feather duster.
>
> Perhaps - and this could be truly relevant - in
> this increasingly technological age too many people are
> relying on the equipment to do everything and not using
> their own brains/instincts.
>
> Gyppo
>
> John Craggs - Writer - Adult Tutor - Storyteller
> and All-Round Rogue
> Need a laugh? Then subscribe to the free Monday Silly Digest:
> mail to: gyppo1@ntlworld.com With 'MSD SUB' as subject.

I have to agree I was taught not to shoot unless I was sure of the target
and that I wanted it - difficult in the dark but well within the
capabilities of an experienced lamper. That there are these incidents shows
sloppy practice , the frequency shows that there are more trespassers now
that in any age before. The respect for other peoples land and possesions is
being eroded by Blairs croneys, I do not like that stupid right to roam
nonsense because it gives Joe public the impression he can wander wherever
he wants the abuse you get explaining to some idiot that he is playing with
his dog in a growing crop is unbeliveable and the fool who told me not to
get too close because she couldnt control the big dog she was trespassing
with- I was out shooting at the time? this btw is in cheshire where the RTR
does not apply of course
Derek


---
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Anonymous
September 25, 2004 9:20:51 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 14:15:14 GMT, Derek wrote:

>"J Craggs" <gyppo1@NOSPAMPLEASEOLDCHAPntlworld.com> wrote in message

>> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/west_yorkshi...

>> >In all my years of lamping I have never heard of so many accidents.

>> Perhaps - and this could be truly relevant - in
>> this increasingly technological age too many people are
>> relying on the equipment to do everything and not using
>> their own brains/instincts.

> I have to agree I was taught not to shoot unless I was sure of the target
>and that I wanted it - difficult in the dark but well within the
>capabilities of an experienced lamper. That there are these incidents shows
>sloppy practice , the frequency shows that there are more trespassers now
>that in any age before.

I can't say exactly where the man and his son were walking when this
happened but reference is made to Whitwood Golf Course. This is a nine
hole public course which is close to a built up area with public
rights of way across it. See this map (URL may wrap)

<http://uk.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=4...;

Looking again at the report on the BBC page there is now a link to
another page stating that an arrest has been made.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/west_yorkshi...

--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"
September 25, 2004 9:43:26 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

Phil Cook <u-r-s-g@p-t-cook.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
news:8m5bl01tr28mt85b83od49d9mrpkgj2dl7@4ax.com:

>
> <http://uk.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=4...
> &gride=440320&gridn=424532&scale=25000>
>
> Looking again at the report on the BBC page there is now a link to
> another page stating that an arrest has been made.
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/west_yorkshi...

Andy is from the area.

Andy, can you add any details?

John
Anonymous
September 25, 2004 10:55:28 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

I have no more news than has already been posted
http://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/section-item.asp?sid...

"John" <zero_one34@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns956FBE6E0DF0COEcopyremovedheaders@130.133.1.4...
> Phil Cook <u-r-s-g@p-t-cook.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
> news:8m5bl01tr28mt85b83od49d9mrpkgj2dl7@4ax.com:
>
> >
> > <http://uk.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=4...
> > &gride=440320&gridn=424532&scale=25000>
> >
> > Looking again at the report on the BBC page there is now a link to
> > another page stating that an arrest has been made.
> >
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/west_yorkshi...
>
> Andy is from the area.
>
> Andy, can you add any details?
>
> John
>
Anonymous
September 26, 2004 4:26:51 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

the area of the shooting was on land adjacent to the golf course known as
"Whitwood common lane" I live approximately 20 min from there this land has
past been the seen of illegal lamping and coursing for a number of years now
I have not shot on there but one partridge drive runs up to the back of the
golf course there is no high ground as such and a lack of decent back stops
as so as far as I can gather from the point at witch the boy was shot the
shooter would have been pointing towards the houses from what I can
remember the highest point of the golf course is only 30 meters and hats a
very gradual slope

"West Yorkshire Police said an 18-year-old man from Castleford was being
held following his arrest on Saturday."

the above is only my opinion for what it is worth

reguards ash
September 26, 2004 4:57:39 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

"ash.bat" <ash.bat@virgin.net> wrote in
news:fAy5d.64$VV5.4@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net:

> the above is only my opinion for what it is worth
>
> reguards ash

Do you know what “gun” was involved?
This chap was obviously trespassing?
Do you know who owns the land?
Any idea what they were lamping at the time of the incident?

TIA

John
Anonymous
September 26, 2004 5:10:02 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

john
>
> Do you know what "gun" was involved?
no john
> This chap was obviously trespassing?
yes
> Do you know who owns the land?
no the glof couse it on lease the land wich the boy was shot on in common
land
> Any idea what they were lamping at the time of the incident?
no rabbit would be best guess
>
> TIA
>
> John
>
>
September 26, 2004 6:25:30 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

On 26 Sep 2004 12:57:39 GMT, John <zero_one34@hotmail.com> wrote:
>snippety snip<

>Do you know what “gun” was involved?

And was the ground cleared by The Chief Officer of Police for the area
for the calibre of weapon involved?

>This chap was obviously trespassing?

And how close to a highway?

>Any idea what they were lamping at the time of the incident?

sounds like let's shoot some rabbits to me.

Throw the book at whomever was involved.
From Pete

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Being eaten by a crocodile is just like falling asleep in a blender"
Bart Simpson
September 26, 2004 6:25:31 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

Pete <pete.ansbro@virgin.net> wrote in
news:algdl01fgrfe5r0lme6di58o4k5r68cf41@4ax.com:

> Throw the book at whomever was involved.


Incidents like these are going to seal our fate.
There will be calls to ban lamping or license it via DEFRA.
Can you imagine the public response to headlines akin to;

“They blind the animals with high powered search lights”
“Fox frozen with fear by bright beamed Maglight type torch”
“Fox hunts to buy last remaining stocks GE torch bulbs in their bid to
quench last minuet blood lust”
“Cross eyed man arrested after attempting to lamp neighbours gnome”
“Deadly torches designed for seeing in the dark are used to aid the
night time slaughter of animals”

I can genuinely see “lamps” and lamping being hit by legislation.

John
Anonymous
September 26, 2004 7:38:43 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

As a member of the RAF, I cannot let that one go. The battlefield is a very
mobile place - the art is being able to respond more quickly than the enemy
(getting inside his decision-action loop, to keep it simple). Technology
(and superior training) will help you do that - however, modern technology
will never make battlefields safe for friendly forces. There have been
friendly fire incidents since the earliest times - even during the Battle of
Britain, friendly fighters shot down a number of Blenheims in an infamous
incident because they were misidentified as enemies - there was no
technology involved in that little 'error' than the Mark One Eyeball.

Don't ever think that the modern forces (certainly the British Armed Forces)
"rely so much on technology now, ie, IFF, identification, friend or foe,
that nobody uses their eyes, ears or instinct anymore." As professional
servicemen, we all understand the limitations of our equipment and we use it
for what it is...an aid to doing the job quicker, more professionally and
with less (and therefore giving us all as tax payers, better value for
money - sadly, the latter fact is becoming the most important thing to many
in the corridors of power.)

Anyway, back to the lamping debate...

(For what it's worth, this rash of incidents bothers me greatly - as already
noted, the press and therefore the public will get the wrong end of the
stick - it has all the makings of another knee-jerk 'dangerous dogs' act or
the banning of hand guns.)

Ian

"SEAANGLING" <seaangling@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040925051706.19078.00001516@mb-m29.aol.com...
> >Perhaps - and this could be truly relevant - in>this increasingly
> technological age too many people are>relying on the equipment to do
everything
> and not using>their own brains/instincts.
>
> I think there may just be a grain of truth in that observation, look at
the
> "friendly fire" incidents in Iraq, they rely so much on technology now,
ie;
> IFF, identification, friend or foe, that nobody uses their eyes, ears or
> instinct anymore, cheers, Norman.
Anonymous
September 26, 2004 8:06:29 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

On 25 Sep 2004 09:17:06 GMT, seaangling@aol.com (SEAANGLING) wrote:

>>Perhaps - and this could be truly relevant - in>this increasingly
>technological age too many people are>relying on the equipment to do everything
>and not using>their own brains/instincts.
>
>I think there may just be a grain of truth in that observation, look at the
>"friendly fire" incidents in Iraq, they rely so much on technology now, ie;
>IFF, identification, friend or foe, that nobody uses their eyes, ears or
>instinct anymore, cheers, Norman.

It might have to do with the calibre of some of the US armed forces
personnel. The ones I have seen on the box (presumably put there
because they were the better versions) have been monosyllabic to say
the least.

(The trouble is reading the instruction manuals of these sophisticated
weapons..... it takes a long time when you have to move your lips at
the same time....)

J.
Anonymous
September 26, 2004 8:06:30 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

There has been some interesting debate on this site about lamping:

http://www.airgunbbs.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=2cbf...

I recon its got a lot to do with a recent article in a shooting mag
giving loads of info on how to get started lamping. Now everyone with
any kind of gun and a few acres is going for it in a big way.

Accidents are inevitable and the great debate on the above forum was
for some form of licensing or control of lamping activities.
Anonymous
September 28, 2004 10:39:57 AM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

"Derek" <delwattsspamnoman@cwcom.net> wrote in message news:<S3f5d.84$bL6.46@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>...

> That there are these incidents shows
> sloppy practice , the frequency shows that there are more trespassers now
> that in any age before. The respect for other peoples land and possesions is
> being eroded by Blairs croneys, I do not like that stupid right to roam
>

Wow - that's a pretty big leap. I don't believe that there is any
evidence that the three people shot in recent months were trespassing.

The boy on the Castleford golf course was in a recreation area and was
shot by an illegal lamping party shooting on a public 9-hole course in
the middle of a town: http://tinyurl.com/5gmyw

And the lad in Devon was shot by his own stepfather (in a lamping part
of six!): http://tinyurl.com/6sqgw

The chap out with the night vision binoculars was on a footpath:
http://tinyurl.com/3rgka

So frankly I think your linking these incidents to an increase in the
frequency of trespassers doesn't hold water. Two of the incidents
showed outright irresponsibilty on the part of shooters and the third
(the night vision chap) was a horrible accident - the shooter has been
acquitted.

I'm amazed at the opprobrium heaped on the poor bastards who got shot
- on the Horse and Hound message boards Trevor Lawson, the guy with
the binoculars has been the target of particularly obscene comments.

There, people have described him as a 'sneaking bastard who deserved
what he got' and suggested that he got himself shot on purpose.

In fact, Trevor Lawson is a respected wildlife expert who writes for
amongst others Farmers Weekly and the National Trust. He is also an
expert on badgers and has given evidence to Parliament on bovine TB.

Nick
September 29, 2004 2:37:14 AM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

nstrug@yahoo.com (Nick Strugnell) wrote in
news:9762d28.0409280539.143630b9@posting.google.com:

> "Derek" <delwattsspamnoman@cwcom.net> wrote in message
> So frankly I think your linking these incidents to an increase in the
> frequency of trespassers doesn't hold water. Two of the incidents
> showed outright irresponsibilty on the part of shooters and the third
> (the night vision chap) was a horrible accident - the shooter has
> been acquitted.


My Personal belief for what it’s worth is that there is a serious lack
of any mentor figures in shooting.
Not so long ago farther would teach son who would also in turn teach his
son.
Due to political pressures shooting has become almost an obscenity. This
combined with a lack of tutor’s has lead to a new breed of “shooter’s”
who rely solely on information gained from magazines or the internet.
Written information is one thing but it will never and can never replace
the securities imposed by personal instruction by an experienced person.
This trend in my opinion is set to increase as “guns” and “shooting”
become more and more reclusive. This is worrying because every boy wants
a “gun” and no matter what the law is, most teenage boys will have a gun
in their hands at some stage or another and a lamping they will go!. It
also amazes me how many so called experienced shots getting lamping
wrong, they seem to forget the inherent dangers of shooting at night and
believe that the edge of darkness is a safe back stop. Lamping much like
all forms of non-standard shooting is a skill that must be mastered.
Many people who I have taken lamping normally only shoot at rifle
ranges, it can become extremely worrying when they start letting loose
with their 10-22’s.
I guess the bottom line is that countryside sports are now involving
less traditional shots, people who don’t really shoot for any other
reason than pleasure. That might sound contradictive because we all must
enjoy shooting or we wouldn’t shoot? There are shooters and there are
shooters in my opinion. Some people are born to it and some are breed to
it but they are not the ones who shoot at eyes in the middle of the
night, they are not the ones who shoot fellow lamp’ers. Much like
weekend drivers, the new “give-it-a-go” fly by night participants are
the sort we need to educate, after all if it were not for them shooting
would die a lonely death.

John
Anonymous
September 29, 2004 5:02:35 AM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

The Father to son traditions are almost gone in many sports.
My Father & Grandfather introduced me into fishing, just as I have
introduced my sons to it.

I wasn't introduced into shooting/hunting, I must admit I am self-taught
(late 80s), and read many of the great, late John Darlings work, which
inspired me greatly. (I've just been reading Air Rifle Hunting again
tonight) :-)

I only shoot/hunt what I have use for, or as pest control, and even then, my
bag is never wasted.
Whether for the pot, the ferrets/dogs, and just recently the local
taxidermist.
Whereas the mentality of many seems to be 'shoot to kill 'til there ain't no
more' which is a great shame, as it devoids areas of wildlife and gives a
bad impression of all shooters to all onlookers.
Harvesting the wildlife should be just that, harvest what is needed, when
it's needed, leave the supply for another time it's needed, and not making
the land barren.

I am passing my knowledge to my sons (well, one of them, as the other isn't
that interested, but one of my daughters is starting to show an interest in
ferreting)
And I hope if they follow suit, they will too pass on the knowledge &
experience.
IMO this is what will keep the sport alive.

A 17yr old that's seen his mates shooting, can just walk into a gun shop and
buy an air rifle, then will let loose on Nature 'all guns blazing'
as-it-were.
Regulating such things is almost impossible in this day & age, and without
the introduction of laws to prevent it happening, sadly, it will carry on.
The drawback is if such laws are introduced, it will virtually kill our
sport in the way of newcomers entering, and effectively wipe us out
eventually.

--
Andy (UK_Rabbiter)
Creator, Manager & Moderator of Rabbit Hunters
http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/Rabbit
http://groups.msn.com/RabbitHunters
http://s7.invisionfree.com/Rabbit_Hunters
My site
www.ukrabbiter.co.uk
All mail is scanned by Norton Anti-virus 2004 Pro

John wrote:
> Nick Strugnell wrote:
>
> > Derek wrote:
> > So frankly I think your linking these incidents to an increase in the
> > frequency of trespassers doesn't hold water. Two of the incidents
> > showed outright irresponsibilty on the part of shooters and the third
> > (the night vision chap) was a horrible accident - the shooter has
> > been acquitted.
>
>
> My Personal belief for what it's worth is that there is a serious lack
> of any mentor figures in shooting.
> Not so long ago farther would teach son who would also in turn teach his
> son.
> Due to political pressures shooting has become almost an obscenity. This
> combined with a lack of tutor's has lead to a new breed of "shooter's"
> who rely solely on information gained from magazines or the internet.
> Written information is one thing but it will never and can never replace
> the securities imposed by personal instruction by an experienced person.
> This trend in my opinion is set to increase as "guns" and "shooting"
> become more and more reclusive. This is worrying because every boy wants
> a "gun" and no matter what the law is, most teenage boys will have a gun
> in their hands at some stage or another and a lamping they will go!. It
> also amazes me how many so called experienced shots getting lamping
> wrong, they seem to forget the inherent dangers of shooting at night and
> believe that the edge of darkness is a safe back stop. Lamping much like
> all forms of non-standard shooting is a skill that must be mastered.
> Many people who I have taken lamping normally only shoot at rifle
> ranges, it can become extremely worrying when they start letting loose
> with their 10-22's.
> I guess the bottom line is that countryside sports are now involving
> less traditional shots, people who don't really shoot for any other
> reason than pleasure. That might sound contradictive because we all must
> enjoy shooting or we wouldn't shoot? There are shooters and there are
> shooters in my opinion. Some people are born to it and some are breed to
> it but they are not the ones who shoot at eyes in the middle of the
> night, they are not the ones who shoot fellow lamp'ers. Much like
> weekend drivers, the new "give-it-a-go" fly by night participants are
> the sort we need to educate, after all if it were not for them shooting
> would die a lonely death.
>
> John
Anonymous
September 29, 2004 11:21:38 AM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

"Nick Strugnell" <nstrug@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9762d28.0409280539.143630b9@posting.google.com...

>
> The boy on the Castleford golf course was in a recreation area and was
> shot by an illegal lamping party shooting on a public 9-hole course in
> the middle of a town: http://tinyurl.com/5gmyw
>
>The child, who has not been named, was hit while walking through an area of
thin scrubland at the back of Whitwood golf course in Castleford, West
York's, at around 8.30pm on Thursday.
regards ash
Anonymous
September 29, 2004 10:49:49 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 01:02:35 +0100, "Andy
\(UK_Rabbiter\)" <andy@ukrabbiter.co.uk> wrote:

>Harvesting the wildlife should be just that, harvest what is needed, when
>it's needed, leave the supply for another time it's needed, and not making
>the land barren.
>
That is an excellent philosophy. When we shoot
for the pot we are predators, not just 'killers'.

But how many times have you heard someone say
something like; "But why not leave the killing to
'proper' people and buy your meat ready to cook?"
Almost as if the stuff in a game dealer's just flew in,
eviscerated itself, and then adopted the appropriate
posture on a hook ;-)

Gyppo

John Craggs - Writer - Adult Tutor - Storyteller
and All-Round Rogue
Need a laugh? Then subscribe to the free Monday Silly Digest:
mail to: gyppo1@ntlworld.com With 'MSD SUB' as subject.
Anonymous
October 1, 2004 10:48:07 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

>
> > That there are these incidents shows
> > sloppy practice , the frequency shows that there are more trespassers
now
> > that in any age before. The respect for other peoples land and
possesions is
> > being eroded by Blairs croneys, I do not like that stupid right to roam
> >
>
> Wow - that's a pretty big leap. I don't believe that there is any
> evidence that the three people shot in recent months were trespassing.
>
> The boy on the Castleford golf course was in a recreation area and was
> shot by an illegal lamping party shooting on a public 9-hole course in
> the middle of a town: http://tinyurl.com/5gmyw
>
> So frankly I think your linking these incidents to an increase in the
> frequency of trespassers doesn't hold water. Two of the incidents
> showed outright irresponsibilty on the part of shooters and the third
> (the night vision chap) was a horrible accident - the shooter has been
> acquitted.
>
I snipped the post to make my point(s) this particular incident based on the
info posted is of course 'armed trespass' on the part of the shooter but
unless the person shot was on a public footpath (which according to other
posts is not the case) he was also trespassing just because the course is
owned by the council it does not give the right to the public to be on it
when not playing golf ( during the hours of darkness ) so it would appear
both parties were "at it"
my first hand experience is that the number of trespassers has increased I
have witnessed the damage they cause on friends farms, had a school party
wander into a shoot a 3/4 mile from the nearest footpath had dog walkers
wander across a field when we were shooting, hoof prints across a newly
planted field, fields set on fire, it goes on and on


Derek


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October 1, 2004 11:06:41 PM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

"Derek" <delwattsspamnoman@cwcom.net> wrote in
news:HDh7d.171$BO1.144@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net:

>>
> I snipped the post to make my point(s) this particular
incident based
> on the info posted is of course 'armed trespass' on the part
of the
> shooter but unless the person shot was on a public footpath
(which
> according to other posts is not the case) he was also
trespassing
> just because the course is owned by the council it does not
give the
> right to the public to be on it when not playing golf (
during the
> hours of darkness ) so it would appear both parties were "at
it"
> my first hand experience is that the number of trespassers
has
> increased I have witnessed the damage they cause on friends
farms,
> had a school party wander into a shoot a 3/4 mile from the
nearest
> footpath had dog walkers wander across a field when we were
shooting,
> hoof prints across a newly planted field, fields set on
fire, it goes
> on and on

This is just my opinion of course but to my mind every person
who discharges a gun, be that a firearm, shotgun or air weapon
has a duty of care.
If by discharging their “gun” they cause injury to anyone,
regardless if they should or should not be there the blame is
with the trigger puller and not the bystander.

John
Anonymous
October 2, 2004 1:26:01 AM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

Derek
the boy in question was shot on land adjacent to the golf course .
The land on which the boy and his farther were walking there dog was common
land.
The shot was fired from the adjacent golf course the two pieces of land in
question are total different and furthermore separated by a railway line the
boy and farther have both a right to exercise the dog on what is declared as
common land

"Derek" <delwattsspamnoman@cwcom.net> wrote in message
news:HDh7d.171$BO1.144@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
>
> >
> > > That there are these incidents shows
> > > sloppy practice , the frequency shows that there are more trespassers
> now
> > > that in any age before. The respect for other peoples land and
> possesions is
> > > being eroded by Blairs croneys, I do not like that stupid right to
roam
> > >
> >
> > Wow - that's a pretty big leap. I don't believe that there is any
> > evidence that the three people shot in recent months were trespassing.
> >
> > The boy on the Castleford golf course was in a recreation area and was
> > shot by an illegal lamping party shooting on a public 9-hole course in
> > the middle of a town: http://tinyurl.com/5gmyw
> >
> > So frankly I think your linking these incidents to an increase in the
> > frequency of trespassers doesn't hold water. Two of the incidents
> > showed outright irresponsibilty on the part of shooters and the third
> > (the night vision chap) was a horrible accident - the shooter has been
> > acquitted.
> >
> I snipped the post to make my point(s) this particular incident based on
the
> info posted is of course 'armed trespass' on the part of the shooter but
> unless the person shot was on a public footpath (which according to other
> posts is not the case) he was also trespassing just because the course is
> owned by the council it does not give the right to the public to be on it
> when not playing golf ( during the hours of darkness ) so it would appear
> both parties were "at it"
> my first hand experience is that the number of trespassers has increased I
> have witnessed the damage they cause on friends farms, had a school party
> wander into a shoot a 3/4 mile from the nearest footpath had dog walkers
> wander across a field when we were shooting, hoof prints across a newly
> planted field, fields set on fire, it goes on and on
>
>
> Derek
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.771 / Virus Database: 518 - Release Date: 28/09/2004
>
>
Anonymous
October 2, 2004 3:24:02 AM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

Ash thanks for clarifying (see below folks sorry about the top post) that
it was not clear on the other posting nor it seems in the newspaper report
not a very unusual state of affairs I'm sure you will agree.
however shooting from onto or over land which you do not have
permission to shoot is still a trespass in this case apparently shooting
from the golf course across railway land.
Derek

"ash.bat" <ash.bat@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:JXj7d.342$OU6.19@newsfe3-win.ntli.net...
> Derek
> the boy in question was shot on land adjacent to the golf course .
> The land on which the boy and his farther were walking there dog was
common
> land.
> The shot was fired from the adjacent golf course the two pieces of land in
> question are total different and furthermore separated by a railway line
the
> boy and farther have both a right to exercise the dog on what is declared
as
> common land
>
> "Derek" <delwattsspamnoman@cwcom.net> wrote in message
> news:HDh7d.171$BO1.144@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
> >
> > >
> > > > That there are these incidents shows
> > > > sloppy practice , the frequency shows that there are more
trespassers
> > now
> > > > that in any age before. The respect for other peoples land and
> > possesions is
> > > > being eroded by Blairs croneys, I do not like that stupid right to
> roam
> > > >
> > >
> > > Wow - that's a pretty big leap. I don't believe that there is any
> > > evidence that the three people shot in recent months were trespassing.
> > >
> > > The boy on the Castleford golf course was in a recreation area and was
> > > shot by an illegal lamping party shooting on a public 9-hole course in
> > > the middle of a town: http://tinyurl.com/5gmyw
> > >
> > > So frankly I think your linking these incidents to an increase in the
> > > frequency of trespassers doesn't hold water. Two of the incidents
> > > showed outright irresponsibilty on the part of shooters and the third
> > > (the night vision chap) was a horrible accident - the shooter has been

> > > acquitted.
> > >
> > I snipped the post to make my point(s) this particular incident based on
> the
> > info posted is of course 'armed trespass' on the part of the shooter but
> > unless the person shot was on a public footpath (which according to
other
> > posts is not the case) he was also trespassing just because the course
is
> > owned by the council it does not give the right to the public to be on
it
> > when not playing golf ( during the hours of darkness ) so it would
appear
> > both parties were "at it"
> > my first hand experience is that the number of trespassers has increased
I
> > have witnessed the damage they cause on friends farms, had a school
party
> > wander into a shoot a 3/4 mile from the nearest footpath had dog walkers
> > wander across a field when we were shooting, hoof prints across a newly
> > planted field, fields set on fire, it goes on and on
> >
> >
> > Derek
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.771 / Virus Database: 518 - Release Date: 28/09/2004
> >
> >
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.771 / Virus Database: 518 - Release Date: 29/09/2004
Anonymous
October 3, 2004 2:24:42 AM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

"John" <zero_one34@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95709886834DEOEcopyremovedheaders@130.133.1.4...

>
> I can genuinely see "lamps" and lamping being hit by legislation.
>


It somewhat ironical that the anti-hunting lobby went on about this as being
the holy grail for fox control, now that the hounds are about to go. They
always referred to the hunter as the "trained marksman", and never ever
considered that he might just but slightly miss. I suppose that a fox that
has narrowly, by the skin of his teeth, just eluded the hounds after a
chase, he should feel thankful that he did not just evade the rifle by the
same skin of his teeth. Otherwise he'd be limping off with a shattered jaw
or perhaps the loss of a foreleg.

Nowadays, with the so-called "democracy" we are told about by our incumbent
politicians, we find that countryside processes are beginning to break down,
entirely due to outside interference founded on little understanding and
zero compassion. Democracy in this context is utter nonsense ~ the Fuel
Crisis a few years back is testament to that.
Anonymous
October 3, 2004 9:17:32 AM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

> "John" <zero_one34@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns95709886834DEOEcopyremovedheaders@130.133.1.4...
>
>>
>> I can genuinely see "lamps" and lamping being hit by
>> legislation.

What is the actual state of the law? I seem to re-call that it
is illegal to discharge a firearm between one hour after sunset
and one hour before dawn? But if that is the law, what about
wild fowling? Then there are surely laws prohibiting the persuit
of game with a motorised vehicle or boat...but does that only
apply to game?

In my experience, most things are already illegal (especially
if they work) and those that aren't are allowed only under
licence. Or perhaps the Bliar government has me brain washed.

Derry
October 3, 2004 11:48:59 AM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

Derry Argue <derry(delete)@adviegundogs.co.uk> wrote in
news:Xns9577402E9494Cderryadviegundogscou@130.133.1.4:

> What is the actual state of the law? I seem to re-call that it
> is illegal to discharge a firearm between one hour after sunset
> and one hour before dawn?

Deer are protected at night in the whole of the UK. Scotland stalkers
can apply to the Commission for a night shooters permit/licence if they
can show a need to cull at night. As far as I know, everything else
(fox, rabbit etc.) have no protective legislation for night shooting.


> But if that is the law, what about
> wild fowling?

It’s not the law with regards to fowl (there is separate legislation
specific to fowl as well as general legislation).

> Then there are surely laws prohibiting the persuit
> of game with a motorised vehicle or boat...but does that only
> apply to game?

I don’t think it does apply to game. I know there is legislation with
regards to deer & propelled vehicles but I don’t think it would be
illegal to shoot a pheasant from the beaters wagon.

>
> In my experience, most things are already illegal (especially
> if they work) and those that aren't are allowed only under
> licence. Or perhaps the Bliar government has me brain washed.

The only two areas of legislation for night shooting (that I know of)is
the Deer act and a law which makes lamping birds illegal.
Unless you have a license, deer shooting can only take place between one
hour before sun rise and one hour after sunset and although birds can be
shot at night, you could not use a lamp to do so.

John
October 3, 2004 11:57:33 AM

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

"MichaelM" <directlyover@centreofearth.com> wrote in
news:8R6cncZRKvSQgcLcSa8jmw@karoo.co.uk:

> It somewhat ironical that the anti-hunting lobby went on about this
> as being the holy grail for fox control, now that the hounds are
> about to go. They always referred to the hunter as the "trained
> marksman", and never ever considered that he might just but slightly
> miss. I suppose that a fox that has narrowly, by the skin of his
> teeth, just eluded the hounds after a chase, he should feel thankful
> that he did not just evade the rifle by the same skin of his teeth.
> Otherwise he'd be limping off with a shattered jaw or perhaps the
> loss of a foreleg.

I have personally witnessed a few foxes that have been injured whilst
being hunted by hounds; the foxes went to earth presumably to die a long
and infected death.
There are good and bad points for both hunting and shooting fox, equally
good and ban points for snaring foxes and if it were legal good and bad
points for poisoning foxes. Hunting foxes with hounds isn’t the be all
and end all of fox control, it never has been and never will be.
I can only comment on the way in which I would prefer to die, a rifle
bullet or a pack of dogs? You guess.
That is not to say I would like to see fox hunts gone. I personally
believe that it is the hunter who must moralise his or her actions and
if they believe their actions to be justified who am I to pass judgment.

John
!