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DID IT "MELTDOWN"???

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August 14, 2001 4:25:40 PM

what happened to Toms main baby(the AMD Athlon Rig) in testing Ati and nVdia's new offerings, did it "meltdown"?

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"

More about : meltdown

Anonymous
a b à CPUs
August 14, 2001 4:34:27 PM

Prolly giving in to your pressure and wisdom!

<font color=blue>THG needs 2 change the sig' of the week errrr century!</font color=blue>
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August 14, 2001 5:05:14 PM

many (i don't know about most) of tom's graphics reviews have been benched on pentium systems examples: <A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/01q2/010625/gainwar..." target="_new">here</A>
<A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/01q2/010530/geforce..." target="_new">here</A>
<A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/01q2/010502/mx400-0..." target="_new">here</A>
i won't continue...but it seems that at least 50% of his graphics reviews are on intel chips. so don't cry meltdown, just go find some more bs to post.



**these two: :mad:  :mad:  want you to <b>CHANGE THE SIG OF THE WEEK!!</b> :mad:  :mad: 
August 14, 2001 5:09:26 PM

lol it might have actually lol

no but who knows really.. maybe he wanted to try something new... or to show he isn't biased so he went to an intel rig instead of an amd. AMD chip probably melted lol but he can always get another one right so ya.



Think first, if you have nothing worth more then a dollar don't say anything at all.
August 14, 2001 6:20:00 PM

My fisrt guess was, most of the time when Pentium is used the test was not done by Tom personally. But this article has his name on it. so that is not the case here.

Bummer Tom doesn't read his forum and update us.
August 14, 2001 7:22:58 PM

My three theories.

1.) Driver/Misc Software conflicts. Video card drivers are sketchy at best, and that's not good when paired with an Athlon.
2.) Heat. With each new generation of Nvidia card, they seem to be producing more and more heat. Obviously the hotter running athlon can cause problems with this (as a video card heats up through high use -- such as during a few hours of heavy benchmarking -- the overall process can become "chunky")
3.) The P4 is just plain better for graphics. Yes, we all know it (although we don't all admit it) and if you want to show larger differences between graphics cards benchmark-pointwise, then you boost the overall system's graphic abilities (ie, put a p4 in it instead of an Athlon).

BTW, did anyone else see Tom's article as a whiney preachy document "Nvidia's not playing fair...WAAAAA, etc."?

Althons and Pentiums are just melted rock. Who’s rock is better? Who cares, let’s play some games
August 14, 2001 8:12:55 PM

No, it's complete bullsh!t that Nvidia would hold on to drivers that can enhance performance that much. What is the point? These drivers should be available to the consumer.

Blah, Blah Blahh, Blahh, blahh blah blahh, blah blah.
August 14, 2001 8:37:04 PM

It's called smart marketing. Build up a demand and then supply that demand right as the competition does something impressive. It insures that the ASPs of the competitor will drop quickly, thus providing them with less money. It's all business.

Althons and Pentiums are just melted rock. Who’s rock is better? Who cares, let’s play some games
August 14, 2001 9:34:22 PM

Pentium 4's are NOT necessarily better for graphics. The only area they pull ahead in is in photoshop and s**t like that. For games this has no bearing though, and Athlons ARE faster in 3D gaming due to their stronger FPU.
August 14, 2001 9:56:13 PM

>>d Athlons ARE faster in 3D gaming due to their stronger FPU.

Im a huge fan of athlons but how do you explain quake 3?
Pentium 4 is no slouch, just wait for more optimised software, such as quake 3 and you will see wassup. I would definitelly invest in p4 if intel would stop changng the dman platforms so much.



Damn it, i want to use htm here.
Man....damn....may rambus take your soul.
August 14, 2001 9:59:09 PM

Quake 3 is anything but optimised. Try Tribes 2, Messiah, Scrifice or any other SSE 2 optimised game (not many out there, though). Quake 3 is just well-known for favoring the P4, as is Giants. Most other games go for Athlon (UT, Counterstrike, etc.).



<font color=blue>Quarter pounder inside</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Change the Sig of the Week!!!</font color=red>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
August 15, 2001 12:00:43 AM

Here is a post from sharky, take from it whatever you want:

"The Pentium 4-1.8 GHz owns most of the gaming and multimedia benchmarks, while the Athlon 1.4 GHz is ahead in most productivity and office applications."

deez
August 15, 2001 12:48:07 AM

Damnit a 1.4Ghz Athlon can beat me at MS Word! gotta get me a athlon!!
August 15, 2001 12:56:54 AM

If they include games as productivity, I can see how that would be true then.

:) 

But serious, most all games excluding a scant few are faster on Athlon, either by little or by large. Go through most any computer sites shootouts between Athlon vs PIV. Most, excluding a select few, show the Athlon to be faster in gaming. Unreal, HL, and any other mainstream game that favors no side through it's code are faster on an Athlon. Like you pointed out, Q3 is faster. Then again, not by much, and that's one of a very few that run faster.
August 15, 2001 1:41:33 AM

Not from my perspective!

My P4 system can kick the stuffing out of a 1.4 Athlon system, even one that is overclocked, with RAID-0, and a similar video card, in 3DMark2000 and/or 2001.

Perhaps that defies conventional wisdom about the superiority of AMD processors, and that P4's are worthless, over-priced, over-hyped solutions from Intel. I understand; I've seen the benchmarks, too. Perhaps some of them were ever-so-slightly biased? Considering the state of the economy, companies like Intel and Microsoft are not well liked these days.

But that's not what I kept seeing as I compared my system to the scores at MadOnion. And I'm getting frame rates in games, without overclocking, that make me <i>very</i> happy. Much better than my older system, that had a 1GHz Athlon.

Just yesterday, I compared my system to several others that had 1.3GHz and 1.4GHz Athlons ... which from all reports, should kick the living snot out of my configuration. To my surprise ... that really wasn't the case. It took some pretty hefty overclocking of the processor and FSB, tweaking of the system, and damn near everything stripped for performance on an AMD machine to meet or exceed my default, non-overclocked score.

How 'bout that? And all I had to do was a normal OS installation! Nothing special.

I kinda of enjoyed seeing that not <i>everything</i> bad I've read about the P4 is true ... and that <i>some</i> of what I've read about the incredible speed of the Athlon <i>is</i> hype.

That's my two cents. Don't expect me to respond with crazed enthusiasm to ball-busting flames ... I'm not related to FUGGER.

Toejam31

P.S. I'm not an avid support of either Intel or AMD. I've said it before, I just prefer to use what works best for me, in real-world situations. Of course, I realize a post like this is rancid troll-bait for some people, and might inspire an irresistible urge to set me on fire!

But I saw what I saw ... and life with a P4 doesn't suck nearly as much as some folks would have you think. It's great for multimedia ... and it won't make you throw your conflicting SoundBlaster card across the room in a fit of rage. I don't think there's an AMD/VIA system out there that is nearly as stable as the i850 and a P4.

Finis.



<font color=purple>My Rig:</font color=purple> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847&lt;/A>
August 15, 2001 2:07:33 AM

Well i think most site use one system to test. Well i guess THG base system is a P4.

Nice Intel and AMD users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
August 15, 2001 2:43:07 AM

Well, maybe no time/no point in comparing on both processor architectures?

Also, his Athlon Rig is vapochilled and overclocked - which does not make it a good comparison for two card architectures for most people.

Now, if he had time a comparison of card figures between stock AMD system and stock P4 might have been useful, but it was not about AMD v.s. Intel, but ATi v.s. nVidia.

My $0.02

-* This Space For Rent *-
email for application details
August 15, 2001 3:07:10 AM

3dmark2001 is a pro intel benchmark, kind of like if you judged your systems performance by videoediting benchmarks alone.

~Matisaro~
"Friends don't let friends buy Pentiums"
~Tbird1.3@1.55~
August 15, 2001 3:08:17 AM

PS: do you have a link to your 3dmark score?

~Matisaro~
"Friends don't let friends buy Pentiums"
~Tbird1.3@1.55~
August 15, 2001 3:33:28 AM

>3dmark2001 is a pro intel benchmark

really? so, why is AMD listed in the credits along with the rest of the bunch?

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"
August 15, 2001 4:09:34 AM

By pro intel I mean the results are scewed in favor of intel, who knows why, like quake 3. I am not saying discount 3dmark2001 results, I am saying do not judge your systems total performance based on 3dmark2001 alone.

~Matisaro~
"Friends don't let friends buy Pentiums"
~Tbird1.3@1.55~
August 15, 2001 4:13:01 AM

Are you a Newspaper Editor AmdMeltdown?

<b><font color=blue>Change the</font color=blue><font color=red> sig of</font color=red><font color=green> the week!</font color=green> :tongue: </b>
August 15, 2001 4:15:00 AM

3DMark2000 - <A HREF="http://gamershq.madonion.com/compare.shtml?1942835" target="_new">http://gamershq.madonion.com/compare.shtml?1942835&lt;/A>

3DMark2001 - 1024x768x32 - <A HREF="http://gamershq.madonion.com/compare2k1.shtml?1381215" target="_new">http://gamershq.madonion.com/compare2k1.shtml?1381215&l...;/A>

3DMark2001 - 1024x768x16 - <A HREF="http://gamershq.madonion.com/compare2k1.shtml?1400549" target="_new">http://gamershq.madonion.com/compare2k1.shtml?1400549&l...;/A>

Not as good as some, but better than many. I'm not into overclocking ... I see enough damaged components all day long to satisfy any urges I might have in that direction.

Toejam31
August 15, 2001 6:15:50 AM

That's a hell of a score. Yep ... you burned my butt!

(Sheepish Grin!)

But not yet tweaked? I'd say that a 282MHz FSB is slightly tweaked, wouldn't you? ;-)

Hmmm ... I might have to overclock to keep up with you, after all ... just for a little while. But I'll wait for the 20.80's first, and see what the default score will be. I may need to do some other tweaking, too.

Are you running the system that fast all the time, or just during the benchmarks?

Still happy with the way my system performs, though. The gaming performance and overall stability of the machine is terrific. And there are lots of computers at MadOnion that can't keep up, including some other high-end Athlons. The P4 may not be quite as fast, clock for clock ... but it doesn't suck.

Congrats!

Toejam31

P.S. Thanks guys, for leaving out the flames. Friendly competition should be fun!

<font color=purple>My Rig:</font color=purple> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847&lt;/A>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
August 15, 2001 7:16:45 AM

you are wrong !!!!!
since toms big fight with intel over the p3 1.13 he has been overfriendly towards intel.
look at the benchmarks he used in the workstationartichle,
q3 and stupid sysmark.
Anand used real workstation-benchmarks like 3d studio max where athlon rules.
intel punished tom after the p3 1.13 skandal (didnt give him information about the p4 etc.). Thats why he is not being rough enough on intel.
August 15, 2001 8:12:46 AM

The 282 fsb is just 141, slightly overclocked. Many here have much higher(when my cl2 pc150 ram arrives soon I will go to 150cl2, and stay there hehe.)
When the 20.80's come out, I am going to town as well....gonna jack that mofo.

"Are you running the system that fast all the time, or just during the benchmarks? "
I dont overclock for benchmarks, especially not 3d2001, I perform artifact testing before benchmarking my overclock, I will not stand for any artificats in my games if I can help it. I run my system at this speed all the time, and it never crashes. I also dislike having different settings for different things, my card is at 230/515 right now. 230/530 is perfectly fine for EVERY game except for GIANTS, so, even if I rarely if ever play giants I slowed down the ram to have stability. (altho when I get a nice case cooler I will put it back at 530 or higher.)

Everyone with a gf3 had damn better well be happy with their system performance heh ;-). As for pentium 4 sucking, I think its a matter of personal choice, but for the money I just dont think its a viable solution.(however I wont call anyone a retard for having a p4.....well, maybe fugger and amdmeltdown!:-).

Keep it cool, no flames and we can have civilized conversation, I agree!

~Matisaro~
"Friends don't let friends buy Pentiums"
~Tbird1.3@1.55~
August 15, 2001 8:15:24 AM

anandtech did their review on the amd athlon mp... maybe so that you can see a wider range of results webwide...

if in doubt blame microsoft...
August 15, 2001 12:00:08 PM

Hmmm ... for some reason I assumed you were using a DDR mobo with that Athlon. My mistake.

Yes, sir ... you definitely shouldn't allow artifacts. Things like "snow", weird colors, distorted areas ... those are indications that the card is clocked too high. There's still some memory bandwidth issues with the GF3 GPU, although not to the same degree as the GF2 series.

What happens to Giants (and your system) when the memory on the card is set at 530?

The only game that I've seen that my card has any problems with is Black & White. There's a tiny degree of stutter at the highest texture settings ... but that could also be lag from the cordless mouse. Gotta go for that 800 DPI optical soon ...

Toejam31

<font color=purple>My Rig:</font color=purple> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847&lt;/A>
August 15, 2001 12:18:46 PM

Nope good old abit kt7a raid mobo, nice tweakers board. My next upgrade will be the kg7 raid(or a kickass Nforce board) with a palimino, then I will hand my wife down this 1.5 and I will be happy.(she has a 750 athlon classic with a 3dphrophet(gf1). Her system is just fine, but I can install tribes 2, and set the resolution to 1600x1200, and tell her it's time for her to upgrade, and use that as an excuse to upgrade my system MUHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

Giants~
When the memory is set to 530 the game randomly crashes to desktop. It dosent appear to be heat related, its just weird. No visual artifacts at all on any game. However at 240/540 I have tons of artifacts, with more cooling I am sure I could get my gpu to 240/540 and keep it there, but I dont feel like screwing with it physically right now heh.

I have never noticed any kind of slowdown. Maybe I should install my wifes copy of B&W to check it out.

(if you want to make your games look good, enable anisotropic filtering.(8x for opengl and 2x for d3d. I noticed MUCH visual improvement in tribes 2 with it on. it costs you 500 3dmark pts. though(as a rough guestimate of system hit). And it gave a better visual upgrade than fsaa did, with less of a hit.(however I can play any game at 1042x768 with 8tap anisotropic filtering AND quincunx fsaa and never dip below 50fps, god I love my gf3.)

~Matisaro~
"Friends don't let friends buy Pentiums"
~Tbird1.3@1.55~
August 15, 2001 2:12:32 PM

Tom's not friendly to intel at all. He just can't lie TOO much without raising suspicions. :smile: . He criticizes them every chance he can get and he still bends benchmarks to AMD's favor. It's just u can only skew benchmarks so far :) 

Althons and Pentiums are just melted rock. Who’s rock is better? Who cares, let’s play some games
August 15, 2001 6:22:49 PM

Quote:
he still bends benchmarks to AMD's favor.

Proof?

:smile: Good or Bad have no meaning at all, depends on what your point of view is.
August 15, 2001 7:15:56 PM

is that so?
accept it. AMD chips are better!

<font color=blue>die-hard fans don't have heat-sinks!</font color=blue>
August 15, 2001 8:02:50 PM

My friends and i have had systems before that match Tom's setups precisely (as in we are close to start with and we modify them to be carbon copies -- according to his specs). And his Athlon benchmarks are ALWAYS above what we can get and his Intel benchmarks are ALWAYS below what we can get. And please, this is the guy who had the AMD ad banner, which means they paid to advertise on his site. If this won't show his bias, i dunno what would.

Althons and Pentiums are just melted rock. Who’s rock is better? Who cares, let’s play some games
August 15, 2001 8:28:19 PM

That doesn't show he's biased, it shows that AMD paid to advertise on his site.



<font color=blue>Quarter pounder inside</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Change the Sig of the Week!!!</font color=red>
August 15, 2001 8:49:29 PM

Well but come on. If a newspaper that was partially funded by an abortion clinic, i can guarantee u, the person in charge would make sure articles in that paper were abortion friendly (i don't know where i came up with abortion, i just thought of it -- u can sub in anything such as McD's or AMD).

Althons and Pentiums are just melted rock. Who’s rock is better? Who cares, let’s play some games
August 15, 2001 9:35:57 PM

True, so is he biased for Epox, Network Solutions, Spiegel? By your logic, he has to be.



<font color=blue>Quarter pounder inside</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Change the Sig of the Week!!!</font color=red>
August 16, 2001 2:12:47 AM

It seems to be at random at what computer he uses for his benchmarks.......... perhaps he just uses whatever computer is available at the time, maybe he's running something on the other computers, so "hey the Pentium4 machine is free" so he uses it for that.

--
It's Princess Leia, the yodel of my life. Give me my sweater back or I'll play the guitar.
August 16, 2001 2:14:04 AM

Quote:
Damnit a 1.4Ghz Athlon can beat me at MS Word! gotta get me a athlon!!


Oh crap, a P4 beats my 1.5GHz Athlon in FlaskMPEG!!!! BETTER GET A P4

--
It's Princess Leia, the yodel of my life. Give me my sweater back or I'll play the guitar.
August 16, 2001 8:21:05 AM

Still waiting...

:smile: Good or Bad have no meaning at all, depends on what your point of view is.
August 16, 2001 3:22:33 PM

Yes. And it works like that, it's rule #1 of business...do not put content into ur "news" that makes ur contributors look bad.

Althons and Pentiums are just melted rock. Who’s rock is better? Who cares, let’s play some games
!