Magpie competition

[Guest]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

Reading the paper today, noticed there was an article in it re the
'Sporting Gun' holding a competition to see who could bag the most
magpies, with £500 to the winner. RSPB and DEFRA up in arms over the
whole affair. Not sure that I approve of competition to bag maggies, I
have enough motivation to do it for free; as the buggers work they way
down my hedges, removing songbirds & nest raiding.
I must agree that there is a lot of them about and that a concerted
effort to control them would do no more to the magpie population than
that which shooters do to the wood pigeon population.
I MHO I think the RSPB needs to understand the idea of balance and to
promote it publicly. It seems that vermin control is done on most RSPB
bird sanctuaries, but not admitted to publicly.
The larsen goes out this week!

--
Larry Armitstead

 

[Malcolm]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

In article <dMCx0HHKijICFwBw@whihouse.demon.co.uk>, Larry Armitstead
<larry@whihouse.demon.co.uk> writes
>Reading the paper today, noticed there was an article in it re the
>'Sporting Gun' holding a competition to see who could bag the most
>magpies, with £500 to the winner. RSPB and DEFRA up in arms over the
>whole affair. Not sure that I approve of competition to bag maggies, I
>have enough motivation to do it for free; as the buggers work they way
>down my hedges, removing songbirds & nest raiding.
>I must agree that there is a lot of them about and that a concerted
>effort to control them would do no more to the magpie population than
>that which shooters do to the wood pigeon population.

True.

>I MHO I think the RSPB needs to understand the idea of balance and to
>promote it publicly.

What "balance"? I'm just listening to 'Today' on R4, in which the
representative of the 'Sporting Gun' has said that if nothing is done
about magpies, there will soon be no song birds just magpies and crows!

> It seems that vermin control is done on most RSPB bird sanctuaries,
>but not admitted to publicly.

Evidence?

>The larsen goes out this week!
>

--
Malcolm

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

"Larry Armitstead" <larry@whihouse.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dMCx0HHKijICFwBw@whihouse.demon.co.uk...
> Reading the paper today, noticed there was an article in it re the
> 'Sporting Gun' holding a competition to see who could bag the most
> magpies, with £500 to the winner. RSPB and DEFRA up in arms over the
> whole affair. Not sure that I approve of competition to bag maggies, I
> have enough motivation to do it for free; as the buggers work they way
> down my hedges, removing songbirds & nest raiding.
> I must agree that there is a lot of them about and that a concerted
> effort to control them would do no more to the magpie population than
> that which shooters do to the wood pigeon population.
> I MHO I think the RSPB needs to understand the idea of balance and to
> promote it publicly. It seems that vermin control is done on most RSPB
> bird sanctuaries, but not admitted to publicly.
> The larsen goes out this week!
>
> --
> Larry Armitstead


I mailed my brother who used to work at the RSPB:
Just out of interest...

When you worked at the RSPB, what type (if any) of pest control did they do?

I'm talking about corvid control.



Hi,
I was never involved in any there or at the WWT in Arundel. This is either
because they did not do anything or it just went on in the background.

The RSPB was the least likely to try to ammend the numbers of corvids as it
is a 'natural' environment they are looking after. The WWT however are
involved in captive breeding projects and therefore were much keener on pest
control. Their main pests were rats and mink, as the breeding pens were all
netted to prevent aerial access.

Quite often people just put up a large plastic owl to scare off the corvids.

hopefully of use,

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

As I sit here at the computer, I'm looking out at three magpie nests within
50 metres of my house. Also I have counted this winter 15 species of birds
at my feeder.

Isn't it the truth that the real concern of the anonymous landowner with his
500 acre estate (who according to my local paper this morning 'doesn't want
to give his name for safety reasons) who put up the money for the prize
wants to stop those thieving magpies predating on pheasant eggs?



"Larry Armitstead" <larry@whihouse.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dMCx0HHKijICFwBw@whihouse.demon.co.uk...
> Reading the paper today, noticed there was an article in it re the
> 'Sporting Gun' holding a competition to see who could bag the most
> magpies, with £500 to the winner. RSPB and DEFRA up in arms over the
> whole affair. Not sure that I approve of competition to bag maggies, I
> have enough motivation to do it for free; as the buggers work they way
> down my hedges, removing songbirds & nest raiding.
> I must agree that there is a lot of them about and that a concerted
> effort to control them would do no more to the magpie population than
> that which shooters do to the wood pigeon population.
> I MHO I think the RSPB needs to understand the idea of balance and to
> promote it publicly. It seems that vermin control is done on most RSPB
> bird sanctuaries, but not admitted to publicly.
> The larsen goes out this week!
>
> --
> Larry Armitstead

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

>. The WWT however are involved in captive breeding projects and therefore

WWT Arundel have a load of rat/mink sized live catch traps dotted around
their grounds. I am guessing they kill the vermin that is caught in the
traps.




"Heds" <hedleyFOOKSPAM.phillips@comsa.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4222f98c$0$22502$7b0f0fd3@mistral.news.newnet.co.uk...
> "Larry Armitstead" <larry@whihouse.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:dMCx0HHKijICFwBw@whihouse.demon.co.uk...
>> Reading the paper today, noticed there was an article in it re the
>> 'Sporting Gun' holding a competition to see who could bag the most
>> magpies, with £500 to the winner. RSPB and DEFRA up in arms over the
>> whole affair. Not sure that I approve of competition to bag maggies, I
>> have enough motivation to do it for free; as the buggers work they way
>> down my hedges, removing songbirds & nest raiding.
>> I must agree that there is a lot of them about and that a concerted
>> effort to control them would do no more to the magpie population than
>> that which shooters do to the wood pigeon population.
>> I MHO I think the RSPB needs to understand the idea of balance and to
>> promote it publicly. It seems that vermin control is done on most RSPB
>> bird sanctuaries, but not admitted to publicly.
>> The larsen goes out this week!
>>
>> --
>> Larry Armitstead
>
>
> I mailed my brother who used to work at the RSPB:
> Just out of interest...
>
> When you worked at the RSPB, what type (if any) of pest control did they
> do?
>
> I'm talking about corvid control.
>
>
>
> Hi,
> I was never involved in any there or at the WWT in Arundel. This is either
> because they did not do anything or it just went on in the background.
>
> The RSPB was the least likely to try to ammend the numbers of corvids as
> it
> is a 'natural' environment they are looking after. The WWT however are
> involved in captive breeding projects and therefore were much keener on
> pest
> control. Their main pests were rats and mink, as the breeding pens were
> all
> netted to prevent aerial access.
>
> Quite often people just put up a large plastic owl to scare off the
> corvids.
>
> hopefully of use,
>
>

 

[Tony]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

Hi Group,

I used to be nearly deafened by the dawn chorus in my garden. It was such a
joy to hear it. A group of over forty long tailed tits visited the garden
most afternoons. There was the odd magpie to be seen now and again.

Last year I watched a couple of long tailed tits building the most amazing
nest over the course of a few days in the plum tree just outside my kitchen
window. It was incredible to see them so hard at work - they never seemed
to stop. They flew back and forth with moss and feathers all day long.

A few days later the eggs were laid and all was well until later that
afternoon when I heard the most awful kafuffle. I stood at the window and I
watched a magpie rip the nest to shreds and eat the eggs which had fallen on
the ground. The long tailed tits didn't stand a chance although they did put
up a valiant fight to try and stop the magpie killing their eggs and
wrecking all their hard work.

These days the dawn chorus amounts to a couple of blue tits and a greenfinch
or two. The group of long tailed tits is now down to two. There was always a
thrush or two singing it's head off in our garden. They haven't been seen
since year before last. I counted twenty six magpies on my neighbours roof
the other day. You see them everywhere now in vast numbers. Remember the
song "one for sorrow - two for joy" etc. I don't ever remembver seeing any
more than three together when I was young

Make up your own minds but I see a very plausible conection between the
number of magpies and the severe dearth of songbirds.

Tony Stewart

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

From watching the BBC southwest news to night, yesterday's regional
newspaper, and a Telegraph article on Sunday, it is clear the "landowner"
who is donating the prize is actually one and the same as the "editor" who
is carrying the competition. Why is he trying to hide who is doing what?

Both the RSPB and the BTO said on local TV the reason for the loss of
songbirds is changes in farming.

And the RSPB seems to have no problems with Larsen traps as they are used on
shooting estates where the shoot and the RSPB do joint conservation work.
So RSPB are not against managing magpies as such?

Many years ago, living in the north west of Ireland, my dawn chorus was a
single corncrake. Those who have ever heard the incessant and monotonous
rasping crack-crow sound of just one corncrake going on for 30 mins will
understand why there seems to be so little concern that they are on the edge
of disperaing form UK. If only there had been a maggie around.......


"Tony" <tonystewart2@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:_r2Vd.3901$VF5.3823@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> Hi Group,
>
> I used to be nearly deafened by the dawn chorus in my garden. It was such
a
> joy to hear it. A group of over forty long tailed tits visited the garden
> most afternoons. There was the odd magpie to be seen now and again.
>
> Last year I watched a couple of long tailed tits building the most amazing
> nest over the course of a few days in the plum tree just outside my
kitchen
> window. It was incredible to see them so hard at work - they never seemed
> to stop. They flew back and forth with moss and feathers all day long.
>
> A few days later the eggs were laid and all was well until later that
> afternoon when I heard the most awful kafuffle. I stood at the window and
I
> watched a magpie rip the nest to shreds and eat the eggs which had fallen
on
> the ground. The long tailed tits didn't stand a chance although they did
put
> up a valiant fight to try and stop the magpie killing their eggs and
> wrecking all their hard work.
>
> These days the dawn chorus amounts to a couple of blue tits and a
greenfinch
> or two. The group of long tailed tits is now down to two. There was always
a
> thrush or two singing it's head off in our garden. They haven't been seen
> since year before last. I counted twenty six magpies on my neighbours
roof
> the other day. You see them everywhere now in vast numbers. Remember the
> song "one for sorrow - two for joy" etc. I don't ever remembver seeing any
> more than three together when I was young
>
> Make up your own minds but I see a very plausible conection between the
> number of magpies and the severe dearth of songbirds.
>
> Tony Stewart
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

In article <P7MCoq7VzsICFwQ4@indaal.demon.co.uk>, Malcolm
<Malcolm@indaal.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>In article <dMCx0HHKijICFwBw@whihouse.demon.co.uk>, Larry Armitstead
><larry@whihouse.demon.co.uk> writes
>>Reading the paper today, noticed there was an article in it re the
>>'Sporting Gun' holding a competition to see who could bag the most
>>magpies, with £500 to the winner. RSPB and DEFRA up in arms over the
>>whole affair. Not sure that I approve of competition to bag maggies, I
>>have enough motivation to do it for free; as the buggers work they way
>>down my hedges, removing songbirds & nest raiding.
>>I must agree that there is a lot of them about and that a concerted
>>effort to control them would do no more to the magpie population than
>>that which shooters do to the wood pigeon population.
>
>True.
>
>>I MHO I think the RSPB needs to understand the idea of balance and to
>>promote it publicly.
>
>What "balance"? I'm just listening to 'Today' on R4, in which the
>representative of the 'Sporting Gun' has said that if nothing is done
>about magpies, there will soon be no song birds just magpies and crows!
A real nice sound bite from the most 'balanced ' programme on radio. I'm
sure the programmes producers were well pleased, and everywhere were
loud in their condemnation. Letters to the Grauniad and the
Indefunctable etc. What I can't believe is that the 'Sporting Gun' was
so unthinking as to talk to the 'Toaday' programme.
>> It seems that vermin control is done on most RSPB bird sanctuaries,
>>but not admitted to publicly.
>
>Evidence?
Look at the Scottish gamekeepers Organisation website or the New Forest
Hounds website, for starters.
>>The larsen goes out this week!
>>
>

--
Larry Armitstead

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

In article <cvvb2l$cka$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, Theo Hopkins
<theo@theohopkins.wanadoo.co.uk> writes
>As I sit here at the computer, I'm looking out at three magpie nests within
>50 metres of my house. Also I have counted this winter 15 species of birds
>at my feeder.
>
No doubt by the end of next year there will be another 9 magpie nests as
they feed at your feeder. Maybe when they cant get enough food at your
feeder they will start on the feedees!
>Isn't it the truth that the real concern of the anonymous landowner with his
>500 acre estate (who according to my local paper this morning 'doesn't want
>to give his name for safety reasons) who put up the money for the prize
>wants to stop those thieving magpies predating on pheasant eggs?
Is this then a wild pheasant shoot? The sort of shoot all the 'naturally
sustainable' gurus are on about? What's the problem? Well done that man!
PS magpies & Crows also like pheasant & partridge poults, as well as
anything eggy or small & half feathered!
>
>
>"Larry Armitstead" <larry@whihouse.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:dMCx0HHKijICFwBw@whihouse.demon.co.uk...
>> Reading the paper today, noticed there was an article in it re the
>> 'Sporting Gun' holding a competition to see who could bag the most
>> magpies, with £500 to the winner. RSPB and DEFRA up in arms over the
>> whole affair. Not sure that I approve of competition to bag maggies, I
>> have enough motivation to do it for free; as the buggers work they way
>> down my hedges, removing songbirds & nest raiding.
>> I must agree that there is a lot of them about and that a concerted
>> effort to control them would do no more to the magpie population than
>> that which shooters do to the wood pigeon population.
>> I MHO I think the RSPB needs to understand the idea of balance and to
>> promote it publicly. It seems that vermin control is done on most RSPB
>> bird sanctuaries, but not admitted to publicly.
>> The larsen goes out this week!
>>
>> --
>> Larry Armitstead
>
>
PPS if you have a problem getting a call bird, my sister swears by the
small pale blue with dark spots eggs you get in the Cadbury mini eggs in
a faux nest in the trap!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

In article <d02klr$3cu$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, Theo Hopkins
<theo@theohopkins.wanadoo.co.uk> writes
>From watching the BBC southwest news to night, yesterday's regional
>newspaper, and a Telegraph article on Sunday, it is clear the "landowner"
>who is donating the prize is actually one and the same as the "editor" who
>is carrying the competition. Why is he trying to hide who is doing what?
>
>Both the RSPB and the BTO said on local TV the reason for the loss of
>songbirds is changes in farming.
>
BTO? Bachmann Turner Overdrive? Birds Terrorist Organisation? Maybe led
by Osprey Bin sparrow hawk?
>And the RSPB seems to have no problems with Larsen traps as they are used on
>shooting estates where the shoot and the RSPB do joint conservation work.
>So RSPB are not against managing magpies as such?
>
>Many years ago, living in the north west of Ireland, my dawn chorus was a
>single corncrake. Those who have ever heard the incessant and monotonous
>rasping crack-crow sound of just one corncrake going on for 30 mins will
>understand why there seems to be so little concern that they are on the edge
>of disperaing form UK. If only there had been a maggie around.......
>
Actually, Theo 2003 was a record year for increase in the corncrake
population, and the population is slowly on the increase. The decline of
the Corncrake CAN be laid at the door of change of farming methods, and
the decline started over 100 years ago.
>
>"Tony" <tonystewart2@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>news:_r2Vd.3901$VF5.3823@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>> Hi Group,
>>
>> I used to be nearly deafened by the dawn chorus in my garden. It was such
>a
>> joy to hear it. A group of over forty long tailed tits visited the garden
>> most afternoons. There was the odd magpie to be seen now and again.
>>
>> Last year I watched a couple of long tailed tits building the most amazing
>> nest over the course of a few days in the plum tree just outside my
>kitchen
>> window. It was incredible to see them so hard at work - they never seemed
>> to stop. They flew back and forth with moss and feathers all day long.
>>
>> A few days later the eggs were laid and all was well until later that
>> afternoon when I heard the most awful kafuffle. I stood at the window and
>I
>> watched a magpie rip the nest to shreds and eat the eggs which had fallen
>on
>> the ground. The long tailed tits didn't stand a chance although they did
>put
>> up a valiant fight to try and stop the magpie killing their eggs and
>> wrecking all their hard work.
>>
>> These days the dawn chorus amounts to a couple of blue tits and a
>greenfinch
>> or two. The group of long tailed tits is now down to two. There was always
>a
>> thrush or two singing it's head off in our garden. They haven't been seen
>> since year before last. I counted twenty six magpies on my neighbours
>roof
>> the other day. You see them everywhere now in vast numbers. Remember the
>> song "one for sorrow - two for joy" etc. I don't ever remembver seeing any
>> more than three together when I was young
>>
>> Make up your own minds but I see a very plausible conection between the
>> number of magpies and the severe dearth of songbirds.
>>
>> Tony Stewart
>>
>>
>
>

--
Larry Armitstead

 

[Malcolm]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

In article <WR$jjoE5SOJCFwYS@whihouse.demon.co.uk>, Larry Armitstead
<larry@whihouse.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <d02klr$3cu$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, Theo Hopkins
><theo@theohopkins.wanadoo.co.uk> writes
>>From watching the BBC southwest news to night, yesterday's regional
>>newspaper, and a Telegraph article on Sunday, it is clear the "landowner"
>>who is donating the prize is actually one and the same as the "editor" who
>>is carrying the competition. Why is he trying to hide who is doing what?
>>
>>Both the RSPB and the BTO said on local TV the reason for the loss of
>>songbirds is changes in farming.
>>
>BTO? Bachmann Turner Overdrive? Birds Terrorist Organisation? Maybe led
>by Osprey Bin sparrow hawk?
>>And the RSPB seems to have no problems with Larsen traps as they are used on
>>shooting estates where the shoot and the RSPB do joint conservation work.
>>So RSPB are not against managing magpies as such?
>>
>>Many years ago, living in the north west of Ireland, my dawn chorus was a
>>single corncrake. Those who have ever heard the incessant and monotonous
>>rasping crack-crow sound of just one corncrake going on for 30 mins will
>>understand why there seems to be so little concern that they are on the edge
>>of disperaing form UK. If only there had been a maggie around.......
>>
>Actually, Theo 2003 was a record year for increase in the corncrake
>population, and the population is slowly on the increase. The decline
>of the Corncrake CAN be laid at the door of change of farming methods,
>and the decline started over 100 years ago.

And a further increase in 2004 to getting on for double the numbers only
10 years ago. And, to confirm what you say about farming methods, and to
challenge Theo's complaint that "there seems to be so little concern"
about them (though I appreciate his reasoning having been kept awake by
them myself!), the recovery has been achieved by the promotion of older
farming techniques, including especially late mowing of grass, after the
birds have hatched instead of cutting early silage which destroys both
habitat and nests. And the concern has been expressed in terms of
hundreds of thousands of pounds of expenditure in paying the farmers and
crofters to do this, because they do lose out on the quantity and
quality of the mown grass. However, there's been a tremendous take up of
the scheme across the Hebrides.

--
Malcolm

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

Where I live is surrounded by farms & small woodlands, and last Winter a
friend and I did a Magpie cull because they were everywhere in great
numbers.
We shot them at every opportunity, and carried it on into the breeding
season.
We must have bagged 30 - 40 in the space of approx 5 months in my little
valley.

Anyway, this Summer (if we can call it that) has had a population boom of
Blackbirds round here.
They are everywhere and in great numbers too.
Where I would normally see 1 or 2, I'm counting them in numbers upto 8.

We still have Magpies, which I like to see about, but when anything gets
into such large numbers, some sort of control has to be implemented.

This Winter, we left the Magpies alone, and hopefully the balance will be
restored once the breeding season arrives.

The Magpies are starting to pair up, and I was watching them in the tree
tops yesterday while out with my rifle, but not a shot was fired at them.

The Collared Doves are booming around here at the moment.
Where I'd normally see the odd pair, has become groups of 6 or 8.
But they are a lot harder to get with the air rifle.
Could their population boom also be a result of the Magpie cull?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

In article <ihdp+qGXOZJCFwsz@indaal.demon.co.uk>, Malcolm
<Malcolm@indaal.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>In article <WR$jjoE5SOJCFwYS@whihouse.demon.co.uk>, Larry Armitstead
><larry@whihouse.demon.co.uk> writes
>>In article <d02klr$3cu$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, Theo Hopkins
>><theo@theohopkins.wanadoo.co.uk> writes
>>>From watching the BBC southwest news to night, yesterday's regional
>>>newspaper, and a Telegraph article on Sunday, it is clear the "landowner"
>>>who is donating the prize is actually one and the same as the "editor" who
>>>is carrying the competition. Why is he trying to hide who is doing what?
>>>
>>>Both the RSPB and the BTO said on local TV the reason for the loss of
>>>songbirds is changes in farming.
>>>
>>BTO? Bachmann Turner Overdrive? Birds Terrorist Organisation? Maybe
>>led by Osprey Bin sparrow hawk?
>>>And the RSPB seems to have no problems with Larsen traps as they are used on
>>>shooting estates where the shoot and the RSPB do joint conservation work.
>>>So RSPB are not against managing magpies as such?
>>>
>>>Many years ago, living in the north west of Ireland, my dawn chorus was a
>>>single corncrake. Those who have ever heard the incessant and monotonous
>>>rasping crack-crow sound of just one corncrake going on for 30 mins will
>>>understand why there seems to be so little concern that they are on the edge
>>>of disperaing form UK. If only there had been a maggie around.......
>>>
>>Actually, Theo 2003 was a record year for increase in the corncrake
>>population, and the population is slowly on the increase. The decline
>>the Corncrake CAN be laid at the door of change of farming methods,
>>and the decline started over 100 years ago.
>
>And a further increase in 2004 to getting on for double the numbers
>only 10 years ago. And, to confirm what you say about farming methods,
>and to challenge Theo's complaint that "there seems to be so little
>concern" about them (though I appreciate his reasoning having been kept
>awake by them myself!), the recovery has been achieved by the promotion
>of older farming techniques, including especially late mowing of grass,
>after the birds have hatched instead of cutting early silage which
>destroys both habitat and nests. And the concern has been expressed in
>terms of hundreds of thousands of pounds of expenditure in paying the
>farmers and crofters to do this, because they do lose out on the
>quantity and quality of the mown grass. However, there's been a
>tremendous take up of the scheme across the Hebrides.
>
Good words Malc. This kind of farming also benefits English Partridge,
so I'm all for it
Larry
--

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

In article <38mft0F5qmm3iU1@individual.net>, Andy www.ukrabbiter.co.uk
<andy@ukrabbiter.co.uk> writes
>Where I live is surrounded by farms & small woodlands, and last Winter a
>friend and I did a Magpie cull because they were everywhere in great
>numbers.
>We shot them at every opportunity, and carried it on into the breeding
>season.
>We must have bagged 30 - 40 in the space of approx 5 months in my little
>valley.
>
>Anyway, this Summer (if we can call it that) has had a population boom of
>Blackbirds round here.
>They are everywhere and in great numbers too.
>Where I would normally see 1 or 2, I'm counting them in numbers upto 8.
>
>We still have Magpies, which I like to see about, but when anything gets
>into such large numbers, some sort of control has to be implemented.
>
>This Winter, we left the Magpies alone, and hopefully the balance will be
>restored once the breeding season arrives.
>
>The Magpies are starting to pair up, and I was watching them in the tree
>tops yesterday while out with my rifle, but not a shot was fired at them.
>
>The Collared Doves are booming around here at the moment.
>Where I'd normally see the odd pair, has become groups of 6 or 8.
>But they are a lot harder to get with the air rifle.
>Could their population boom also be a result of the Magpie cull?
>
>
IMHO, definitely. I watched the magpies two years ago raid the nests of
two pairs of doves in a big hedge down the lane and after having the
eggs from one and the chicks from the other had one of the parents.
Result no Collared doves. The magpies worked as a pair with one taking
on the parents while the other raided the nest!
It would have made a good programme for The BBC wildlife unit, but I
don't think it would have fitted in with their PC attitude!
--

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

"Larry Armitstead" <larry@whihouse.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:WR$jjoE5SOJCFwYS@whihouse.demon.co.uk...
> In article <d02klr$3cu$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, Theo Hopkins
> <theo@theohopkins.wanadoo.co.uk> writes
> >From watching the BBC southwest news to night, yesterday's regional
> >newspaper, and a Telegraph article on Sunday, it is clear the "landowner"
> >who is donating the prize is actually one and the same as the "editor"
who
> >is carrying the competition. Why is he trying to hide who is doing what?
> >
> >Both the RSPB and the BTO said on local TV the reason for the loss of
> >songbirds is changes in farming.
> >
> BTO? Bachmann Turner Overdrive? Birds Terrorist Organisation? Maybe led
> by Osprey Bin sparrow hawk?
> >And the RSPB seems to have no problems with Larsen traps as they are used
on
> >shooting estates where the shoot and the RSPB do joint conservation
work.
> >So RSPB are not against managing magpies as such?
> >
> >Many years ago, living in the north west of Ireland, my dawn chorus was a
> >single corncrake. Those who have ever heard the incessant and monotonous
> >rasping crack-crow sound of just one corncrake going on for 30 mins will
> >understand why there seems to be so little concern that they are on the
edge
> >of disperaing form UK. If only there had been a maggie around.......
> >
> Actually, Theo 2003 was a record year for increase in the corncrake
> population, and the population is slowly on the increase. The decline of
> the Corncrake CAN be laid at the door of change of farming methods, and
> the decline started over 100 years ago.
> >
> >"Tony"

Good news for deaf ornithologists.
Theo

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

"Larry Armitstead" <larry@whihouse.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:RMOy04C+xiJCFw4L@whihouse.demon.co.uk...
> In article <38mft0F5qmm3iU1@individual.net>, Andy www.ukrabbiter.co.uk
> <andy@ukrabbiter.co.uk> writes
> >Where I live is surrounded by farms & small woodlands, and last Winter a
> >friend and I did a Magpie cull because they were everywhere in great
> >numbers.
> >We shot them at every opportunity, and carried it on into the breeding
> >season.
> >We must have bagged 30 - 40 in the space of approx 5 months in my little
> >valley.
> >
> >Anyway, this Summer (if we can call it that) has had a population boom of
> >Blackbirds round here.
> >They are everywhere and in great numbers too.
> >Where I would normally see 1 or 2, I'm counting them in numbers upto 8.
> >
> >We still have Magpies, which I like to see about, but when anything gets
> >into such large numbers, some sort of control has to be implemented.
> >
> >This Winter, we left the Magpies alone, and hopefully the balance will be
> >restored once the breeding season arrives.
> >
> >The Magpies are starting to pair up, and I was watching them in the tree
> >tops yesterday while out with my rifle, but not a shot was fired at them.
> >
> >The Collared Doves are booming around here at the moment.
> >Where I'd normally see the odd pair, has become groups of 6 or 8.
> >But they are a lot harder to get with the air rifle.
> >Could their population boom also be a result of the Magpie cull?
> >
> >
> IMHO, definitely. I watched the magpies two years ago raid the nests of
> two pairs of doves in a big hedge down the lane and after having the
> eggs from one and the chicks from the other had one of the parents.
> Result no Collared doves. The magpies worked as a pair with one taking
> on the parents while the other raided the nest!
> It would have made a good programme for The BBC wildlife unit, but I
> don't think it would have fitted in with their PC attitude!
> --
I don't know about the BBC and their PC attitudes, but last year there was a
long corrspondence in my local aper about maggies.

Two schools of thought....

1. Nasty maggies eat nice little birdies.
2. Nature is red in tooth and claw.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

Here is possible solution to the perceived or real problem of magpies.
Comment welcome....

I put it to you...on a hunch...Since WW11 the farm landscape has been
simplified with problems for specialist birds that tend to be threatened,
however, in a degraded environment, generalists and adaptors and smart
birds like magpies thrive. This can then lead to a loss of songbirds.

There are two solutions.

1. Further simplify the ecosystem by removing all corvoids, result, more
songbirds. That's easy and chaep

2. De-simplify ecosystem by adopting areas of complexity, result, more
songbirds and corvoids. That's dificult and costs money.

Somewhere along the way someone (the Editor of Sporting Gun?) has to answer
why there was no problem 50 years ago but there is now.

Theo

 

[keith]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

"Theo Hopkins" <theo@theohopkins.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d05j3p$tce$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Here is possible solution to the perceived or real problem of magpies.
> Comment welcome....
>
> I put it to you...on a hunch...Since WW11 the farm landscape has been
> simplified with problems for specialist birds that tend to be threatened,
> however, in a degraded environment, generalists and adaptors and smart
> birds like magpies thrive. This can then lead to a loss of songbirds.
>
> There are two solutions.
>
> 1. Further simplify the ecosystem by removing all corvoids, result, more
> songbirds. That's easy and chaep
>
> 2. De-simplify ecosystem by adopting areas of complexity, result, more
> songbirds and corvoids. That's dificult and costs money.
>
> Somewhere along the way someone (the Editor of Sporting Gun?) has to
answer
> why there was no problem 50 years ago but there is now.
>

Could it be that 50yrs ago their were far more full time game keepers and
woodsmen controlling them, and the rearing/releasing of gamebirds has
largely let them be persecuted less?..........until recently that is.

Keith.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

"keith" <keith.williams44@btopenworld.com> wrote in
news:d06gcq$av$1@sparta.btinternet.com:

>
> "Theo Hopkins" <theo@theohopkins.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in
> message news:d05j3p$tce$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> Here is possible solution to the perceived or real problem
>> of magpies. Comment welcome....
>>
>> I put it to you...on a hunch...Since WW11 the farm
>> landscape has been simplified with problems for specialist
>> birds that tend to be threatened, however, in a degraded
>> environment, generalists and adaptors and smart birds like
>> magpies thrive. This can then lead to a loss of songbirds.
>>
>> There are two solutions.
>>
>> 1. Further simplify the ecosystem by removing all
>> corvoids, result, more songbirds. That's easy and chaep
>>
>> 2. De-simplify ecosystem by adopting areas of complexity,
>> result, more songbirds and corvoids. That's dificult and
>> costs money.
>>
>> Somewhere along the way someone (the Editor of Sporting
>> Gun?) has to
> answer
>> why there was no problem 50 years ago but there is now.
>>
>
> Could it be that 50yrs ago their were far more full time
> game keepers and woodsmen controlling them, and the
> rearing/releasing of gamebirds has largely let them be
> persecuted less?..........until recently that is.
>
> Keith.
>
>
>

There's more to it than that. There are no magpies up here
(north of Inverness) but I see them when I travel down to
Perth/Stirling.

We also have a mixed population of black carrion crows and the
grey crows (hoodies). Further north and west, the blacks are
gradually replaced by the greys, with ravens even further away.

There used to be a few magpies east of here, but they seem to
have disappeared.

Possibly something to do with global warming, but as Tony has
now fixed that, the magpies should gradually disappear.<g>

Derry

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

"keith" <keith.williams44@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:d06gcq$av$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
>
> "Theo Hopkins" <theo@theohopkins.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:d05j3p$tce$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > Here is possible solution to the perceived or real problem of magpies.
> > Comment welcome....
> >
> > I put it to you...on a hunch...Since WW11 the farm landscape has been
> > simplified with problems for specialist birds that tend to be
threatened,
> > however, in a degraded environment, generalists and adaptors and smart
> > birds like magpies thrive. This can then lead to a loss of songbirds.
> >
> > There are two solutions.
> >
> > 1. Further simplify the ecosystem by removing all corvoids, result, more
> > songbirds. That's easy and chaep
> >
> > 2. De-simplify ecosystem by adopting areas of complexity, result, more
> > songbirds and corvoids. That's dificult and costs money.
> >
> > Somewhere along the way someone (the Editor of Sporting Gun?) has to
> answer
> > why there was no problem 50 years ago but there is now.
> >
>
> Could it be that 50yrs ago their were far more full time game keepers and
> woodsmen controlling them, and the rearing/releasing of gamebirds has
> largely let them be persecuted less?..........until recently that is.
>
> Keith.
>
>

I'm uncertain about this. Driven pheasant shooting has been expanding
massively recently. Have you and figures on number of keepers?

I did recently note something in the paper that in the last ten years the
number of keepers on Exmoor had risen from 7 to 50 (or some such figure of
those sort of numbers)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

Theo Hopkins wrote:
<snip>
I did recently note something in the paper that in the last ten years the
number of keepers on Exmoor had risen from 7 to 50 (or some such figure of
those sort of numbers)
<snip>

So if they were down to approx 7, 10yrs ago, doesn't that equate that the
numbers of keepers had dropped in the past?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

In article <d05ieh$asd$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, Theo Hopkins
<theo@theohopkins.wanadoo.co.uk> writes
>
>"Larry Armitstead" <larry@whihouse.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:RMOy04C+xiJCFw4L@whihouse.demon.co.uk...
>> In article <38mft0F5qmm3iU1@individual.net>, Andy www.ukrabbiter.co.uk
>> <andy@ukrabbiter.co.uk> writes
>> >Where I live is surrounded by farms & small woodlands, and last Winter a
>> >friend and I did a Magpie cull because they were everywhere in great
>> >numbers.
>> >We shot them at every opportunity, and carried it on into the breeding
>> >season.
>> >We must have bagged 30 - 40 in the space of approx 5 months in my little
>> >valley.
>> >
>> >Anyway, this Summer (if we can call it that) has had a population boom of
>> >Blackbirds round here.
>> >They are everywhere and in great numbers too.
>> >Where I would normally see 1 or 2, I'm counting them in numbers upto 8.
>> >
>> >We still have Magpies, which I like to see about, but when anything gets
>> >into such large numbers, some sort of control has to be implemented.
>> >
>> >This Winter, we left the Magpies alone, and hopefully the balance will be
>> >restored once the breeding season arrives.
>> >
>> >The Magpies are starting to pair up, and I was watching them in the tree
>> >tops yesterday while out with my rifle, but not a shot was fired at them.
>> >
>> >The Collared Doves are booming around here at the moment.
>> >Where I'd normally see the odd pair, has become groups of 6 or 8.
>> >But they are a lot harder to get with the air rifle.
>> >Could their population boom also be a result of the Magpie cull?
>> >
>> >
>> IMHO, definitely. I watched the magpies two years ago raid the nests of
>> two pairs of doves in a big hedge down the lane and after having the
>> eggs from one and the chicks from the other had one of the parents.
>> Result no Collared doves. The magpies worked as a pair with one taking
>> on the parents while the other raided the nest!
>> It would have made a good programme for The BBC wildlife unit, but I
>> don't think it would have fitted in with their PC attitude!
>> --
>I don't know about the BBC and their PC attitudes, but last year there was a
>long corrspondence in my local aper about maggies.
>
>Two schools of thought....
>
>1. Nasty maggies eat nice little birdies.
>2. Nature is red in tooth and claw.
Theo,
from where I stand , both statements are true!
>
>
>
>

--
All mail is scanned for viruses using Norton Symantec.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

In article <d05j3p$tce$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>, Theo Hopkins
<theo@theohopkins.wanadoo.co.uk> writes
>Here is possible solution to the perceived or real problem of magpies.
>Comment welcome....
>
>I put it to you...on a hunch...Since WW11 the farm landscape has been
>simplified with problems for specialist birds that tend to be threatened,
>however, in a degraded environment, generalists and adaptors and smart
>birds like magpies thrive. This can then lead to a loss of songbirds.
>
>There are two solutions.
>
>1. Further simplify the ecosystem by removing all corvoids, result, more
>songbirds. That's easy and chaep
>
>2. De-simplify ecosystem by adopting areas of complexity, result, more
>songbirds and corvoids. That's dificult and costs money.
>
>Somewhere along the way someone (the Editor of Sporting Gun?) has to answer
>why there was no problem 50 years ago but there is now.
>
>Theo
>
There was a problem 50 years ago but in those days there were A VERY
LARGE amount of gamekeepers around who persecuted vermin much more
heavily than today and used to proudly display it on fences. A lot more
land is not shot over now, and where once there would be a head keeper
and two or three underkeepers and kennel boys etc. there is just one
keeper employed.
Larry
>
>

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[Guest]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

In article <d07siu$f1t$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, Theo Hopkins
<theo@theohopkins.wanadoo.co.uk> writes
>
>"keith" <keith.williams44@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
>news:d06gcq$av$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
>>
>> "Theo Hopkins" <theo@theohopkins.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:d05j3p$tce$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> > Here is possible solution to the perceived or real problem of magpies.
>> > Comment welcome....
>> >
>> > I put it to you...on a hunch...Since WW11 the farm landscape has been
>> > simplified with problems for specialist birds that tend to be
>threatened,
>> > however, in a degraded environment, generalists and adaptors and smart
>> > birds like magpies thrive. This can then lead to a loss of songbirds.
>> >
>> > There are two solutions.
>> >
>> > 1. Further simplify the ecosystem by removing all corvoids, result, more
>> > songbirds. That's easy and chaep
>> >
>> > 2. De-simplify ecosystem by adopting areas of complexity, result, more
>> > songbirds and corvoids. That's dificult and costs money.
>> >
>> > Somewhere along the way someone (the Editor of Sporting Gun?) has to
>> answer
>> > why there was no problem 50 years ago but there is now.
>> >
>>
>> Could it be that 50yrs ago their were far more full time game keepers and
>> woodsmen controlling them, and the rearing/releasing of gamebirds has
>> largely let them be persecuted less?..........until recently that is.
>>
>> Keith.
>>
>>
>
>I'm uncertain about this. Driven pheasant shooting has been expanding
>massively recently. Have you and figures on number of keepers?
>
>I did recently note something in the paper that in the last ten years the
>number of keepers on Exmoor had risen from 7 to 50 (or some such figure of
>those sort of numbers)
>
A quick look on the interweb shows a couple of good sources giving a 90%
drop in keeper numbers from 1912 to 1960. And as the numbers have been
dropping since, at a guess the same could be said for the last 50 years.
Larry
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[Malcolm]

Archived from groups: uk.rec.shooting.game (More info?)

In article <d05j3p$tce$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>, Theo Hopkins
<theo@theohopkins.wanadoo.co.uk> writes
>Here is possible solution to the perceived or real problem of magpies.
>Comment welcome....
>
>I put it to you...on a hunch...Since WW11 the farm landscape has been
>simplified with problems for specialist birds that tend to be threatened,
>however, in a degraded environment, generalists and adaptors and smart
>birds like magpies thrive. This can then lead to a loss of songbirds.
>
>There are two solutions.
>
>1. Further simplify the ecosystem by removing all corvoids, result, more
>songbirds. That's easy and chaep
>
Eh?

You may not be considering removing corvids from the whole country, but,
in case you are, UK populations are estimated at 500,000+ pairs of
Magpies and 1 million pairs of Carrion and Hooded Crows. Easy? Cheap?

And as anyone who has removed corvids will tell you, it is not a once
and for all operation, because all you are doing is creating a lovely
piece of countryside without corvids which neighbouring birds will
quickly discover and move into.

Also, of course, and a subject much debated, there is no simple
correlation between numbers of corvids and numbers of songbirds. The
equation is vastly more complicated than that. You can remove every
corvid yet songbird numbers will remain unchanged if the right habitat
isn't there. And if it is, then corvid predation likely won't be a
problem.

>2. De-simplify ecosystem by adopting areas of complexity, result, more
>songbirds and corvoids. That's dificult and costs money.
>
The trend towards replanting hedgerows, instead of the decades of
grubbing them up, is helping.

>Somewhere along the way someone (the Editor of Sporting Gun?) has to answer
>why there was no problem 50 years ago but there is now.
>
Again, no simple answer, I strongly suspect.

--
Malcolm