Improving the feat of strength domain ability

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The Games of Kord thread made me think about this...

Is there a published feat that improves the Strength domain granted
ability, the feat of strength?

I think not, and if so, how much would be appropriate for a feat that
granted extra uses? +1/day? +2/day?

What about a feat that improved the bonus itself? I'm thinking somewhere
from an extra +4 to +8, but it either seems really huge in the hands of
a low level cleric (a Clr1 with +9 to Str for 1 round!) or too little to
be worth it, considering it's 1/day only.

Also, it might be a good idea to allow only one of these, to avoid undue
synergy. The extra bonus one perhaps fits better flavour-wise (*really*
extreme strength for just a while) but extra uses is probably more
useful and more fun for the player; I know I prefer more often usable
abilities of less power to rarely usable abilities of great power.


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr

 

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Jasin Zujovic <jzujovic@inet.hr> wrote:

>Also, it might be a good idea to allow only one of these, to avoid undue
>synergy. The extra bonus one perhaps fits better flavour-wise (*really*
>extreme strength for just a while) but extra uses is probably more
>useful and more fun for the player; I know I prefer more often usable
>abilities of less power to rarely usable abilities of great power.

The first thing that comes to mind is to allow clerics to use
their turn undead "charges" to be able to use their domain
abilities more times per day. That would be completely useless
for some domains, though, and overpowered for others. For
something like Strength it might not be too bad - you either
turn undead or get a strength bonus for one round. That's not
a completely one-sided choice - they've both got their uses,
though the strength boost is a lot more versatile and a LOT
more likely to be useful in any situation, whereas if there
are no undead around you just don't get any use out of being
able to turn them. So maybe it is definitely overpowered.

Not as bad as the Death domain, though. Yeesh.

Actually, looking at the SRD, these are the domains that
would benefit from more uses per day:

Elemental - You'd be able to turn/rebuke elemental creatures
more often. Probably not that useful in most games, but when
it is useful it'd come in really handy.

Animal - Speak with animals. Useful, but eh.

Death - Death touch. Yowza.

Destruction - Smite. Extremely useful.

Luck - Reroll a lousy die. Extremely useful.

Plant - Turn/rebuke plants. Eh.

Protection - Protective ward. Very useful, but not overpowering
like some of the other abilities.

Strength - Strength bonus. Extremely useful.

Sun - Greater turning. There'd be absolutely no point to doing
regular turning if you could substitute greater turning every
time.

Travel - Freedom of movement. Very useful, even more so
because each use can be spent a little at a time. Of course,
that also makes it less likely that you'd need to use the
ability more than once per day at higher levels.

I think a feat or ability that would let clerics use their
domain abilities more times per day isn't a bad idea in
general, but it would definitely benefit some clerics far
more than others. I think my idea of using turning charges
has turned out to be a bad one after looking it over, but
in general it wouldn't be completely horrible to allow
a feat that gives one or two more uses per day. The problem
is, only some clerics would get any use at all out of the
feat, and some would get a LOT of value from it while others
would get only a little.

Pete

 

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Jasin Zujovic <jzujovic@inet.hr> wrote:
> The Games of Kord thread made me think about this...
>
> Is there a published feat that improves the Strength domain granted
> ability, the feat of strength?
>
> I think not, and if so, how much would be appropriate for a feat that
> granted extra uses? +1/day? +2/day?
>
> What about a feat that improved the bonus itself? I'm thinking somewhere
> from an extra +4 to +8, but it either seems really huge in the hands of
> a low level cleric (a Clr1 with +9 to Str for 1 round!) or too little to
> be worth it, considering it's 1/day only.
>
> Also, it might be a good idea to allow only one of these, to avoid undue
> synergy ....

Another possibility: Design it so that the end result is balanced when
you take both feats. That way, they're "gateway" feats individually, but
pretty nice when combined.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd

 

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mellnger@bu.edu wrote:

> I think a feat or ability that would let clerics use their
> domain abilities more times per day isn't a bad idea in
> general, but it would definitely benefit some clerics far
> more than others. I think my idea of using turning charges
> has turned out to be a bad one after looking it over, but
> in general it wouldn't be completely horrible to allow
> a feat that gives one or two more uses per day. The problem
> is, only some clerics would get any use at all out of the
> feat, and some would get a LOT of value from it while others
> would get only a little.

This is why I think that, as the domain abilties currently stand, it'd
be better to make different feats, each balanced for a specific domain
ability.

You could give out extra uses, increase the effective Clr level, add new
effects (for example, greater elemental turning: commanded instead of
turned, destroyed instead of rebuked, as the Sun domain ability)...


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr

 

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Jasin Zujovic <jzujovic@inet.hr> wrote:
>[...] I think that, as the domain abilties currently stand, it'd
>be better to make different feats, each balanced for a specific domain
>ability.
>
>You could give out extra uses, increase the effective Clr level, add new
>effects (for example, greater elemental turning: commanded instead of
>turned, destroyed instead of rebuked, as the Sun domain ability)...

Note that the "Acolyte of the Sun" feat grants any cleric who turns
undead the ability to do a Greater Turning for two turn attempts...

Maybe some feats ("Domain Feats"?) should simply require certain
Domain Access as a prerequisite ("Sun, Good, or Repose" for AotS,
for example), and the cleric should receive one bonus feat that may
only be spent on a Divine or Domain feat?

Donald

 

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In <d2k88b$ls5$1@news3.bu.edu> Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> writes:

>Jasin Zujovic <jzujovic@inet.hr> wrote:

>>Also, it might be a good idea to allow only one of these, to avoid undue
>>synergy. The extra bonus one perhaps fits better flavour-wise (*really*
>>extreme strength for just a while) but extra uses is probably more
>>useful and more fun for the player; I know I prefer more often usable
>>abilities of less power to rarely usable abilities of great power.

>The first thing that comes to mind is to allow clerics to use
>their turn undead "charges" to be able to use their domain
>abilities more times per day. That would be completely useless
>for some domains, though, and overpowered for others. For
>something like Strength it might not be too bad - you either
>turn undead or get a strength bonus for one round. That's not
>a completely one-sided choice - they've both got their uses,
>though the strength boost is a lot more versatile and a LOT
>more likely to be useful in any situation, whereas if there
>are no undead around you just don't get any use out of being
>able to turn them. So maybe it is definitely overpowered.

>Not as bad as the Death domain, though. Yeesh.

>Actually, looking at the SRD, these are the domains that
>would benefit from more uses per day:

>Elemental - You'd be able to turn/rebuke elemental creatures
>more often. Probably not that useful in most games, but when
>it is useful it'd come in really handy.

>Animal - Speak with animals. Useful, but eh.

>Death - Death touch. Yowza.

>Destruction - Smite. Extremely useful.

>Luck - Reroll a lousy die. Extremely useful.

>Plant - Turn/rebuke plants. Eh.

>Protection - Protective ward. Very useful, but not overpowering
>like some of the other abilities.

>Strength - Strength bonus. Extremely useful.

>Sun - Greater turning. There'd be absolutely no point to doing
>regular turning if you could substitute greater turning every
>time.

>Travel - Freedom of movement. Very useful, even more so
>because each use can be spent a little at a time. Of course,
>that also makes it less likely that you'd need to use the
>ability more than once per day at higher levels.

>I think a feat or ability that would let clerics use their
>domain abilities more times per day isn't a bad idea in
>general, but it would definitely benefit some clerics far
>more than others. I think my idea of using turning charges
>has turned out to be a bad one after looking it over,

You might just be pricing it too cheaply. The domains that
give turn and/or rebuke other things get a seperate 3+CHA
charges, so 3 charges might be about right for a second
activation of a "once a day" domain power.

>but
>in general it wouldn't be completely horrible to allow
>a feat that gives one or two more uses per day. The problem
>is, only some clerics would get any use at all out of the
>feat, and some would get a LOT of value from it while others
>would get only a little.

>Pete
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On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 21:01:01 +0200, Jasin Zujovic <jzujovic@inet.hr> wrote:


>What about a feat that improved the bonus itself? I'm thinking somewhere
>from an extra +4 to +8, but it either seems really huge in the hands of
>a low level cleric (a Clr1 with +9 to Str for 1 round!) or too little to
>be worth it, considering it's 1/day only.

How about a feat that adds +4 to cleric level for determining the bonus of this ability, but stipulate that
the effective cleric level cannot exceed hit dice. I wouldn't worry about low level cleric abuse, tho, feats
are too precious (for clerics, anyway) and +9 strength for 1 round, once a day doesn't seem excessive.

 

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Remember that same one time taking of Extra Turning Feat with possible
taking it again also applies to the number of turn attempts applied
from the elemental domains. Extra Smiting also applies to Destruction
domain.

Gerald Katz