Supports for big HSF

[Guest]

Hi all,
At the risk of flamage I have a question.

With all these new big heavy HSF's being installed on to a tiny easily crushable AMD cores, I was wondering if there was something other than shims to help support them to save the accidental rocking over the core?

I was thinking of high temp 75-90duro "o"rings to fit around the rubber standoffs, when "10%crushed" under clip pressure, would allow the HS to sit better supported than the 4 x soft rubber standoffs. This would position the HS off the core until the clip is nearly seated..

Any thoughts?
Thanks in advance.

Medication helps
<font color=blue>THG needs 2 change the sig' of the week errrr century!</font color=blue>

 

[madmike]

Adding o-rings for support might defeat the purpose of the larger heat sink. You could reduce the tension to a point where less heat would be transferred, making the setup less effective. Finding a more efficient HS and providing better active cooling (fans) really makes more sense than the 'sledgehammer' approach of ever larger/heavier heat sinks. The companies producing these big HSs are trying to hold costs down by using more of a cheaper alloy rather than a smaller amount of a more costly one.

 

[Guest]

The idea of the O ring was to support it during installation to stop rocking over the core and jolts to the case/MB in transport, thus effectivly crushing enough to allow proper seating on the core. The idea was to give those soft rubber supports a helping hand, a bit like putting sports suspension in a car ie; replacing the standard shockers.

Is copper that cheap? silver is to expensive for a very small gain.

Medication helps
<font color=blue>THG needs 2 change the sig' of the week errrr century!</font color=blue>

 

[Guest]

if the heat sink makers were smart thay would machine outthe
places on top you don't want crushed. make the heat sink go on only one way.
the designers might be smart .....but not that smart!
could make it where the whole chip sets up in it kinda.
since their all machined to same size and not freehanded lol

 

[Crashman]

If AMD were smart, they would put a heat transfer plate on top of the core, like they did with the K6 series.

I'm so tired of cookies I'd settle for spam!

 

[Guest]

Now thats a good idea... I dont dare take of my hsf as every time I do it Iam afraid I will have another keyring.

BTW do i need a diamond tip drill to put a hole in a cpu!


Medication helps
<font color=blue>THG needs 2 change the sig' of the week errrr century!</font color=blue>

 

[Crashman]

Intel's been doing it since the Pentium days, AMD since the K6 days (or even the K5 days). Both companies stopped, with Intel returning to it with the Tualatin and P4.

I'm so tired of cookies I'd settle for spam!

 

[Kelledin]

ja, that would be the perfect idea. it would stop cores from getting damaged and would make "marginal" thermo compound jobs less of a problem (since the only surface you can easily screw up on has a lot more surface area).

Of course, we had better have a nice little cutout so we can get to the L1 bridges! heheHEHeheh

Kelledin

"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."

 

[Guest]

Yeah but a heat transfer plate won't stop crushed cores.

For example imagine your cpu core is an egg, now if you lay your hand on top of it and push what happens?

Now imagine take a sheet of metal or plastic and imagine thats your heat transfer plate now first off you've already increased the weight over the egg (your cpu core) and if you push on guess what still happens.

Then off course you have to bear in mind the plate won't be 100% efficent at transfering heat from the core so although you have a larger surface area you've also got more heat being retained round the cpu.

Of course you can argue that if they fitted additonal supports under the cooling plate then that would help but firstly it would stop heat escaping more as easily and it would also bump up production costs. Also if HSF manufacturers know they can make heavier coolers then they will especially seeing as it costs them more to make lighter ones (similar is being seen with the internet as now broadband is becoming more common webmasters arn't taking the time to streamline or optimise their sites so they load faster like they used to, therefore to some degree reducing the benefits of broadband). End result? Your cpu costs more to produce meaning it costs more to buy and your no better off.


And also heres the nasty way to look at it...

Everytime so newbie crushes his core and buys a new one everyone from the manufacturer to the person that sold it has just made a lot more money, this means they can afford to sell their cpus more cheaply and this is good for everyone because they sell more cpu's, newbie learns from his mistake and his mistake dosn't cost as much (newbies actually make the cost of replacing the cpus they kill cheaper for themselves), and the people who don't crush their cores just end up with better deal full stop.

(thisisnotasublinimalmessagetellingallnewbiestocrushcoressoIcanbuyanewcpumorecheaply)

Your nice new PC might be faster then my 286, but my 286 makes a better door stop

 

[Guest]

That same newby may not buy another "egg core", he might go put another egg in a new nest from someone elses basket. So i cannot see chickens laying week eggs to crush! Oh try crushing an egg in yer hand, hard to break huh! Besides I wasnt talking about plates, i was looking at improving on the original idea just a little.

Medication helps
<font color=blue>THG needs 2 change the sig' of the week errrr century!</font color=blue>

 

[CALV]

I see the point, that if one gets damaged, then another one needs to be bought, but its not just newbies that it happens to, and if you happen to be a bit of an experimenter and remove the hsf a lot, then one day the inevitable may happen, I have a small sliver chipped off my core, and I've fitted quite a few of them, some of it could be put down to crappy heatsik clips as some of them are a real pain and no matter how careful we are, its very easy to cause damage.


Next time you wave - use all your fingers

 

[Guest]

Exactly!

Lost a piece off my 1g axia, it still worked fine until I later turned it into a key ring by crushing it. But my new CPU has my absolute, full, and careful attention!

Shims are a good idea except if they are not the right height you are in trouble.

<font color=purple>They should make a one use throw away crushable one</font color=purple>.



Medication helps
<font color=blue>THG needs 2 change the sig' of the week errrr century!</font color=blue>

 

[Guest]

When you buy a Silverado NoiseControl, you get 4 (actually 6)hard rubber rings to put around these mushy pads. Works great ! The instructions of the silverado state these rings are absolutely required, because of the enormous presure the HSF applies to the cpu.

Seems your idea isnt that bad then.. THough it might be tricky to find rubber rings with exactly the correct size / firmness, and that resist high temps. I mailed them to see if I could order additional rings, I'll let you know.

---- Owner of the only Dell computer with an AMD chip

 

[Guest]

Thanks. much appreciated.

Medication helps
<font color=blue>THG needs 2 change the sig' of the week errrr century!</font color=blue>

 

[Guest]

*update*

I sent a mail to Boy-Carsten Moelk [moelk@noisecontrol.de]asking if I could order these rings (as well as a few additional 6v and 8v cables to silence my case fans).

Today I got a box from the postman that contains two sets of rings, 4 cables, and an invoice.. the spare parts where not charged, just the shipping fee (about DM 20 or $10).

If you like, I can mail you a set if you give me your address.. I have no need for 3 sets in total.. Just post your post address in this thread, or email me : bob.baeyens AT icl.com

oh, and one word of caution. These rings are pretty tough (and very small, they just fit around these rubber pads). It might be that if you use a heatsink that doesnt apply as much pressure as the Silverado, that the HSF will not make proper contact with the cpu die.. you'll have to try and be carefull

cheers,

Bob

---- Owner of the only Dell computer with an AMD chip