Microsoft validation patch

The following is a copy of a complaint I sent to Microsoft this AM.
It concerns Microsoft's recent requirement to install their validation package in order to continue the same level of use of their download site .

Quote :

What the heck is Bill doing now???

Windows Genuine Advantage Validation Tool
--------------------------------------
Windows Genuine Advantage Validation Tool (KB892130)
443 KB , less than 1 minute
The Windows Genuine Advantage Validation Tool enables you to verify that your copy of Microsoft Windows is genuine. The tool validates your Windows installation by checking Windows Product Identification and Product Activation status. After you install this item, you may have to restart your computer. Once you have installed this item, it cannot be removed.
----------------------------------

My copy of Windows XP home edition was on my Compaq computer when I bought it!

MY copy is legit always has been. This validation tool wasn't part of what I bought and does nothing to enhance or repair your product! The sole purpose of this installation is for the benefit of Microsoft and is meant only to protect their software from piracy.
I suggest you implement this fix on future products instead shoving it down your current customers throat by threatening their ability to use Microsoft's Update and download center . The download center was intended to service the operating system software I bought from Microsoft and considered a feature as such.

Installing this patch in order to continue use of the download center I consider to be an infraction of the trust implied by Microsoft when I bought my system. Furthermore I suggest that Microsoft corporation spend more time making their current product secure from viruses and hackers and less time holding expected services over the head of their current customers .

P/S....... I will be most happy to prove to you that my copy of windows is legit. I only object to the threats to myself and to the installation of your validation patch!

I really don't mind the installation of the validation software so much as I object to their method of getting it on my hard drive .
If you go to the update center and just click "automatic installation (recommended)" you wouldn't even be aware you installed this.
Also I consider this more of a threat of things to come then any harm it can cause now . It was mentioned in another current thread about how this could affect upgrades and especially people who like to do clean installations from time to time .

<A HREF="http://OverVolt.com" target="_new">http://OverVolt.com</A>
!#&$ :eek: ---There's the facts....the twisted facts ...the distorted facts...Then There's Journalism!

Add a reply

Register or log in to remove.

That's some snazzy work, Russ! :smile:

 "You listen to the fans and you'll be sitting up there with them". Bill Belichick on the Browns 'Dog Pound' calls for his exit after his axing of Bernie Kosar.

Reply to BomberBill

Yup...snazzy but worthless.

....WW (5.1)

Reply to _WW_

Bill never trusts anyone. Criminal mind, he stole software himself, made a fortune, and knows that they are out to steal back from him (karma), so always will there be better mousetraps engineered by his company to keep an eye on the thieves.

<pre>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre>

Reply to RichPLS

They'll probably print it out and have a good laugh on their doughnut break this morning.

<A HREF="http://forums.btvillarin.com/index.php?act=ST&f=41&t=2541&st=0#entry20385" target="_new">My Puter</A>

Reply to 4ryan6

I don't think it will get past one guy checking email before it hits the trash bin.

<pre>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre>

Reply to RichPLS

i've got to agree with Rich, but you never know he might print it and show it to the other poor smucks stuck reading angry e-mails. THEY might get a kick out of it. As for the validation of software i'm whith you man its bull sh*t, they shouldnt be trying to make us validate 2 or 3 times, i think once is enough, and i do several clean installs a year. i hope what this doesnt screw with that *gulp*. thanks for bring that up cuz i never would have noticed.

-bre

Edited by Breeman on 08/02/05 08:20 AM.

Reply to Breeman

The key here is have you had to reactivate Windows with those installs and were there hardware changes involved.

<A HREF="http://forums.btvillarin.com/index.php?act=ST&f=41&t=2541&st=0#entry20385" target="_new">My Puter</A>

Reply to 4ryan6

When Windows XP and Office XP were going to be released MSFT used to have a program where they would pre-release the software by a few weeks to retailers who were willing to listen to their rant for an hour or two. (I got a ton of free MSFT software over the years this way.) Originally both of these programs were going to be subscription based where you bought the software and had to renew the paid subscription every year. In fact, I still have my Office XP cd that is subscription based. Either way we all complained and told MSFT they were completely out of line. Two weeks later when the software was released to the public there was no subscription process. I have to assume that our complaining, and the inevitable complaining of retailers across the country made them think twice about it.

<pre>A64 3200+ Winchester
DFI Lan Party NF4 Ultra-D
1GB Corsair 4400C25PT
WD740GD, WD2000JB, WD1200JB
ATI X800XL
Dell 2405FPW</pre>

Reply to dhlucke

True, a strong united protest of nearly anything can cause change.

<pre>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre>

Reply to RichPLS

Surprisingly at 6:45 this morning Microsoft replied to my complaint . I guess in India though it's sometime in the afternoon and I would think that's where their "software technician "reside.
Below is a copy of their response :

Quote :

From: Microsoft Contact US <msconus@microsoft.com>
To: "chambersrussell@gmail.com" <chambersrussell@gmail.com>
Date: Aug 2, 2005 6:54 AM
Subject: RE:'RTCProd=009-210-034' Windows Genuine Advantage Validation Tool
Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Add sender to Contacts list | Trash this message | Report phishing | Show original
Hello,

Thank you for contacting Microsoft Online Customer Service.

I understand from your message that you are experiencing issues with Windows Validation. I realize your concern and look forward to assisting you.

As a Customer Service Representative, I would like to inform you that Microsoft offers no-charge support for issues related to Windows Validation. Please provide the following information so that I can create a standard no-charge support case and forward it to a Microsoft Support Professional. To process your request further, please provide the following information:

- Your first name:
- Your last name:
- Your Phone number (Optional):

I appreciate the additional information and look forward to hearing from you.

Thank you for using Microsoft products and services.

Seetha
Microsoft Online Customer Service Representative

If you have any feedback about your Online Customer Service experience, please e-mail my manager Abhijit Rao, at managers@microsoft.com

I probably supplied Microsoft with my full name and telephone number . I did not want to ask questions as yet so as not to confuse them HA HA .

<A HREF="http://OverVolt.com" target="_new">http://OverVolt.com</A>
!#&$ :eek: ---There's the facts....the twisted facts ...the distorted facts...Then There's Journalism!

Reply to russell

Following is a copy of the most recent e-mail I received from Microsoft . I think it's a good idea share this experience with you guys. So far their responses have been timely although they have yet to specifically respond to my concerns .

Quote :

Microsoft Contact US to me
More options 1:53 pm (10 hours ago)

Hello Russell,

Thank you for contacting Microsoft Online Customer Service.

I appreciate you for writing back to us with the necessary information. I realize the importance of the issue and look forward to assisting you.

Microsoft offers no charge support for issues related to Windows Genuine Advantage. As a Customer Service Representative, I have created a no charge support case for you and forwarded it to one of our Support Professionals as they have technical expertise. They will contact you within twenty four hours. The case ID for your reference is xxxxxxxxxxxxx.

If you have any further issues, send an e-mail message to compmail@microsoft.com with your case ID in the subject line. This will ensure that your message is associated with your support case.

I look forward to your issue being resolved at the earliest.

Thank you for using Microsoft products and services.

Anurag
Microsoft Online Customer Service Representative.

<A HREF="http://OverVolt.com" target="_new">http://OverVolt.com</A>
!#&$ :eek: ---There's the facts....the twisted facts ...the distorted facts...Then There's Journalism!

Reply to russell

here is the latest e-mail from Microsoft

Quote :

MESSAGE:
********************** The message for you follows ************************

Dear Russell,

Thank you for contacting Microsoft Windows Update Support. My name is Amy and I am glad to work with you. You can contact me directly by writing an email to v-30amyx@mssupport.microsoft.com <mailto:v-30amyx@mssupport.microsoft.com> with the case ID in the subject line.

First, I would like to apologize for the delay in responding to your support request due to an increased number of service requests. Please be assured that you have successfully contacted the correct support team and I will be working with you to address your concerns as quickly as possible.

From the case log, I understand that we encounter a problem when validating the Windows. If I have misunderstood your concern, please do not hesitate to correct me.

Russell, I am sorry for the inconvenience this may have caused to you. This problem may occur if your product key has been stolen. In order to better understand your concerns and provide you with the more appropriate information, please help me capture a screenshot of the error message you receive
from Windows Genuine Advantage (WGA) Validation Tool. Please refer to the following steps:

Screenshot

===============

1. When the error message appears, press the Print Screen key (PrtScn) on your keyboard.

2. Click Start, click Run, type MSPAINT, and click OK.

3. In Paint, click Paste under the Edit menu, click Save under the File menu, type a file name for the snap shot, choose JPEG as "Save as type", and click Save.

Please send the JPEG file to v-30amyx@mssupport.microsoft.com <mailto:v-30amyx@mssupport.microsoft.com> in a new email.

At this time, I suggest we can first use the Automatic Updates feature to get the critical and security updates in order to protect your computer. The critical and security updates do not need the validation.

Step 1: skip the validation and install security updates

=====================================

1. Ensure that Automatic Updates is enabled and configured to download and install available updates.

2. Click "Start", click "Run" (without quotations).

3. Type "Wuauclt.exe /detectnow" (without quotations) and then press Enter.

This will allow automatic updates to scan for available updates. We can install the security updates, which will not require validation.

Step 2: Install the WGA engine manually

==========================

The WGA engine may have been already installed but may not be working properly. We can use the following steps to reinstall it. This will ensure the engine files to be copied and registered properly.

1. Download the ActiveX cab file from the following link and then save it to the Desktop.

http://download.microsoft.com/down [...] ontrol.cab

Open the downloaded cab file and we will find the following three files:

GWFSPIDGen.dll

LegitCheckControl.dll

LegitCheckControl.inf

2. Click "Start", click "Run", type: "%windir%\system32" (without quotations) and press Enter. Copy the GWFSPIDGen.dll and

LegitCheckControl.dll files into the opened system32 folder.

3. Click "Start", click "Run", type: "REGSVR32 LegitCheckControl.dll" (without the quotations) and press Enter. We will see a popup message state this process succeeded.

4. Click "Start", click "Run", type: "inf" (without quotations) and press Enter. Copy the LegitCheckControl.inf file into the opened inf folder.

5. Right click on the copied LegitCheckControl.inf file in the inf folder, and then choose Install. The WGA engine will be installed automatically.

Step 3: Then, please access How To Tell link

======================

Please access the following link to learn how to recognize genuine Windows software:

<<http://www.microsoft.com/resources/howtotell/ww/windows/default.mspx>>

Step 4: Please contact the reseller

======================

Please also contact the manufacturer to ask for genuine Windows software using the report provided during the validation session for support. The report explains why your system was unable to validate and provides instructions for further follow-up.

For your information, I also included the contact link of our Customer Service Team. They will provide you with accurate information about our product and how to handle the problem your system encounters:

http://support.microsoft.com/?pr=csshome

Please choose "Product Information and Purchasing".

Please select a link under this choice.

If you have any other concerns or have questions about the steps above, please do not hesitate to tell me. I will be glad and try my best to help you. If you have any suggestions or advice, please also feel free to tell me. I will forward your feedback to the relevant team. I would appreciate if yo
u can send me your feedback at your earliest convenience. Thank you for your time and cooperation.

I am looking forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,

Amy Xu

mailto: v-30amyx@mssupport.microsoft.com <mailto:v-30amyx@mssupport.microsoft.com>

Microsoft Windows Update Support Professional

----------------------------------------

Satisfied customers are my #1 priority!

Here is my reply:

Quote :

Amy,
I'm sorry, you have been misinformed. I am NOT having any difficulty downloading up-grades. The best thing is for me to do is to include a copy of my first email to Microsoft.

1st email follows:
My copy of Windows XP home edition was on my Compaq computer when I bought it!

MY copy is legit always has been. This validation tool wasn't part of what I bought and does nothing to enhance or repair your product! The sole purpose of this installation is for the benefit of Microsoft and is meant only to protect their software from piracy.
I suggest you implement this fix on future products instead shoving it down your current customers throat by threatening their ability to use Microsoft's Update and download center . The download center was intended to service the operating system software I bought from Microsoft and considered a feature as such.

Installing this patch in order to continue use of the download center I consider to be an infraction of the trust implied by Microsoft when I bought my system. Furthermore I suggest that Microsoft corporation spend more time making their current product secure from viruses and hackers and less time holding expected services over the head of their current customers .

P/S....... I will be most happy to prove to you that my copy of windows is legit. I only object to the threats to myself and to the installation of your validation patch!

end of 1st e-mail 

I am a member of a technical forum and myself and others there are not very pleased with this move on the part of Microsoft.

I am not so much opposed to the installation of this verification patch as I am to the manner in which Microsoft threatened current windows XP customers .

Myself and others are also concerned about what may happen to Windows XP users that do clean re-installations often . We would like to know if this will pose a problem in the future . For example , will the patch cause any limitations after a certain number of installations ?

Also there is concern about this causing problems to users of windows XP that upgrade their computer. For example , will windows XP customers be required to contact Microsoft to re-validate XP after installing a new motherboard , hard drive or other components ?

At what point of upgrade does Microsoft consider the need purchase another copy of the operating system ? Isn't windows licensed to me as an individual so long as I only use it on one computer ?

I understand you're a technician and may not be able to answer these questions. As you can see by my original e-mail above I made no mention of having technical difficulties . I would appreciate someone at Microsoft addressing these issues and explaining the effects it will have on your customers . It would have been a little more customer oriented if Microsoft had included answers to these questions before implementing use of the validation patch .

Thank you for your time ,

Russell Chambers

<A HREF="http://OverVolt.com" target="_new">http://OverVolt.com</A>
!#&$ :eek: ---There's the facts....the twisted facts ...the distorted facts...Then There's Journalism!

Reply to russell

Cool intersting stuff, keep us updated!

Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, MSI 6800Ultra stock, 2X30gig Raid0

Reply to Anonymous

I can't recall if Office required activation (Windows XP does), but it required a subscription. Those are two seperate things.

<pre>A64 3200+ Winchester
DFI Lan Party NF4 Ultra-D
1GB Corsair 4400C25PT
WD740GD, WD2000JB, WD1200JB
ATI X800XL
Dell 2405FPW</pre>

Reply to dhlucke

Nah - you have to activate it.

_____________________
<A HREF="http://snipurl.com/fxwr" target="_new">Welcome to the House of Horrors, welcome to the House of a 1000 Corpses</A>

Reply to Ned_Flanders

Below is the latest response from Microsoft .

Quote :

Dear Russell, 10:06PM Aug 3 2005

Thank you for your response and clarification.

First, I apologize for the confusion.

According to your reply, I understand that there is no problem with validating the Windows. However, you have many concerns on this new tool released. If there has been any misunderstanding, please let me know.

First, I would like to explain that Security updates are not part of WGA. Security updates can be installed using the Windows XP Automatic Updates feature, or downloaded from the Download Center.

A change customers will see as a result of WGA is that certain downloads available via the Microsoft.com Download Center that were once offered without any condition, will now require "genuine Windows validation"," a short online process that verifies the customer is running genuine Windows and the
n installs a download key on their PC. The sole purpose of the download key is to allow genuine Windows customers access to content in the Download Center that is tagged as genuine. The download key is different from a Product Key, in that it will only provide access to online content vs. Windows
Activation.

Also, WGA gives us the confidence that we are running Microsoft's reliable, dependable and more secure software that is critical to meeting our needs. During the pilot and beta, non-Windows customers would be able to choose not to opt in to the process, and receive the content.

If you would like to know more information on WGA, please access the following link to learn how to recognize genuine Windows software:

<<http://www.microsoft.com/resources/howtotell/ww/windows/default.mspx>>

Please be assured that WGA will protect our System and make it more secure.

(Also, I recommend you include information regarding how to make future comments regarding our product.)

In the meantime, please tell me whether I can close this case.

I am looking forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,

Amy Xu

mailto:xxxxxxxxxxxx@mssupport.microsoft.com <mailto:xxxxxxxxxx@mssupport.microsoft.com>

Microsoft Windows Update Support Professional

As you can see our questions still remain unanswered .
Following is my reply to Microsoft .

Quote :

Dear Amy,

Thank you for your timely response.
First of all let me say that as of yet Microsoft has failed to shed any light on future effects windows validation might have on my ability to continue using Windows XP in the manner which I currently enjoy .

If you will please re-read my e-mails you will find that I have these main concerns .

My first concern is the manner in which Microsoft threatens loss of use of part of the download center should I decide not to install the validation software . Unfortunately it is too late for Microsoft to reconsider the methods used to encourage their customers to install this software .

The second concern myself and others have concerning this software is as I stated in my correspondence .
"Myself and others are also concerned about what may happen to Windows XP users that do clean re-installations often . We would like to know if this will pose a problem in the future . For example , will the patch cause any limitations after a certain number of installations ?"

The third concern as I stated before "Also there is concern about this causing problems to users of windows XP that upgrade their computer. For example , will windows XP customers be required to contact Microsoft to re-validate XP after installing a new motherboard , hard drive or other components ? "

And finally " At what point of upgrade does Microsoft consider the need purchase another copy of the operating system ? Isn't windows licensed to me as an individual so long as I only use it on one computer ?"

It would be appreciated if you or another associate at Microsoft would answer these questions . I am publishing this correspondence on a technical forum and any light you can shed on these questions will alleviate concerns and allow your customers to make an informed decision as to whether or not to install this software .

Thank you for your time

Russell Chambers

<A HREF="http://OverVolt.com" target="_new">http://OverVolt.com</A>
!#&$ :eek: ---There's the facts....the twisted facts ...the distorted facts...Then There's Journalism!

Reply to russell

IT'S A 404Kb DOWNLOAD- takes like 2 seconds to do!

What's the big deal? :eek:

It's their OS, they have a right to make sure only people woh have bought a legit copy get the benefits of security updates and the like.

_____________________
<A HREF="http://snipurl.com/fxwr" target="_new">Welcome to the House of Horrors, welcome to the House of a 1000 Corpses</A>

Reply to Ned_Flanders

It tells me I have a corporate version of XP Pro and my Validation key is invalid. I already knew I have a corporate version it was assigned to me for home use by my last company 2 years ago.

I guess they are not paying the bills on it anymore because last year I was still valid.

I can still update of course MS doesn't want people running around the internet without the security patches causing infections and wut not.

I suppose I will have to buy another copy of XP or should I ?

I think not.

GOD LOVES CANADA

Reply to SoDNighthawk

VLK corporate licenses run 1 or 3 years. They probably upgraded to another version, thus getting a new VLK key, making yours invalid.

All software a company uses under VLK means they can give it to their employees for free. So you get office, XP, etc, for free. When the company stops using it though, so do you.

Reply to Riser

All the validation tool is doing it making sure there aren't any hacks in XP that would allow someone to use a cracked version. I realize you know this though.

The validation tool is making sure the software has been activated properly and/or not using a known illegal key.

I've been using this activation actually for the past 4-5 months and no one has started bitching about it until they put it in as an automatic update.

When you tried to download certain files off the website, you had to use the validation tool, which meant you let it scan your computer and in a couple instances, you had to put your license key in. I found that a pain because I have a laptop and my key is on the bottom of my laptop.

They're just pulling the key on your computer, making sure it's a legit key.

If you don't install it, you don't get their support. It's that simple. While I understand you're prying to find out more information on it, I really think people are making too big of a deal out of it.

It's not that serious, they're cracking down on the few people who actually are able to use illegal keys or have truly cracked versions of Windows, which I honestly haven't seen but once or twice since XP came out. I've seen people crack it, but activation gets around it.

It's nothing major, but if people don't install it, they're not getting the support because Microsoft wants valid customers getting it.

Just like Pre SP2 people won't get security updates on XP anymore with IE. They're giving it out saying install it or we're not going to be liable for it.

Honestly everyone, it's their software. No one on this forum has even proven to know their software better than them, so yeah, I trust Microsoft's updates more than I trust me to fix it myself. I just might not jump on their updates right away..

Install the damn thing and deal with you. I keep saying you guys will spend 200 dollars on a video card, but on your CORE OS everyone wants it for free. Honestly, the OS is really the only thing worth paying for.. but everyone takes it for granted.

Reply to Riser

Wouldn't it be great if hardware manufactures started validating hardware authenticity to see if you are indeed the purchaser, before they allow you to receive driver updates. The hardware could only be used on up to 4 hardware cofigurations, before license wuold need to get authorized by vendor that the use is still on the acual original rig.
Then in a few more years they could make this a service, and allow you driver updates free for first 90 days, the charge you a monthly or yearly service for future driver support.

<pre>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre>

Reply to RichPLS

Hardware is something physical that can only be used at one time in any given situation though.
Using hardware against software isn't a very good way of looking at it.

A lot of other software vendors, Peachtree for example, you'll need to call them each time you install to activate it. I think Microsoft is going about keeping the hassle out of it as much as possible this way. Yeah, after 5 installs you have to call in then, spend your 5 minutes total doing the call in thing. I've done it several times and I've never been put on hold yet.

I think people are taking it for granted. Honestly, how many times should an OS be installed on a computer? XP very rarely needs reinstalled, unless you are infact someone who is technical and you're building new computers, etc, etc.

But 90% of the population using Windows XP probably is going to reinstall their OS that often. Besides that, they probably have recovery CDs that came from the vendor that would allow them to bypass their activation altogether.

Now the few who do go out and buy XP from the store shelves.. it's not a hot seller and I know very few people who bought XP over buying a new computer. 5 activations, not necessarily installs is a lot.

Hell, with all the bitching of the minority, they might as well just put up the phone system and make you call it in each time. It takes 5 minutes, you talk to someone, they register it, give you the activation code, you're on your merry way.

The only way I see people complaining about this is if you're not using a legit version of XP.

This whole Geniune thing doesn't look at home many times it's installed, it looks to make sure the key is something Microsoft put out. If it doesn't mesh up against what they have, then you're denied. It has nothing to do with activation.

Besides that, if you read some of Microsoft's contracts, you can install the OS on multiple computers you own, but only one can be support by Microsoft.

Microsoft made it very clear that you get 5 activations with XP, then you need to call in. Why are people complaining now? If you have a legit version, you're fine, no big deal.

The only people complaining now are the people without legit versions.

Chalk one up for Microsoft to create headaches for people stealing it's intellectual property.

I'd be surprised to see if anyone can come up with an argument against that.

Reply to Riser

It is not that far of a stretch to envision hardware vendors eying this as a potential untapped revenue stream.
Remember ATI software comes with a DVD player for the 8500 series. Then somewhere right before the X800 came out, they said the ATI new version of DVD player would cost $10 for pre existing users to update, but if you bought a new card, it came free. If you bought it it had to be software activated online.

It is just about control and forcing revenue. There are less invasive ways to combat piracy than these tactics.
It is a very small number of users which copy and distribute illegal copies, and these users could be stopped simply by keeping track of serial numbers sold, like to each vendor have a unique series. Then if unusual activity authorizing is detected they could know which vendor was pirated from and go from there.
If they took a more targeted route, they would have a better public image.

<pre>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre>

Reply to RichPLS

Actually, they do watch VLK licensing and in the end, the company has to pay for all the copies currently in use at the end of the license agreement. Most companies purchase more than necessary and get a discount, and in the end make up the difference.

Most of the illegal versions going around are from companies not on VLK licensing, but open licenses.
Open Licenses mean you install what you need, we bill you as you go. The companies are the ones that are going to get the bill in the end. The problem is they risk a lot of problems with Microsoft for being too lax over the security of their software.

Microsoft is combating this to help the companies out.

I don't really think this is being invasive by any means though. You install this little update, it takes a couple extra seconds each time to get the updates.
If this was something that originally came with XP, we'd be fine with it. But now that it takes up an extra second and it's making everyone feel like a criminal (lines in an airport) people find it invasive.

When I take my truck in for service, they check to see if I bought it there and give me discounts. If I didn't buy it there, I don't get discounts. That's the exact same thing as what Microsoft's doing.. but I don't find them checking to see where I bought my truck is invasive, in the end I get a good deal. Microsoft is giving companies a good deal in knowing that they're actually giving up some money to help companies fight piracy.

If people didn't steal stuff and were trustworthy (take note Wusy) Microsoft wouldn't have to go into these steps.

1 out of 4 Operating Systems are pirated.

Reply to Riser

I doubt 1 in 4 is pirated, but if they had zero pirated versions, will they reduce the per O/S price?
NO.
But they will gladly spend more than the lost revenue stream to concoct schemes such as this in hopes to prevent that lost revenue stream.

<pre>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre>

Reply to RichPLS

I stand corrected in the one out of four... that was pre-XP.

<A HREF="http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_sof_pir_rat" target="_new">Statistics of Piracy</A>

the USofA only ranks 84th with 22% - while this is pirated software altogether, the banners Microsoft had posted in computer shops pre-XP stated One out of Four which is where I got that statistic from.

Reply to Riser

In reality, how do they know the number of pirated versions. I suspect they exaggerate their estimates to try to gain sympathy and support for their invasion tactics. Like I said, it is more about control and gaining more control than it is about revenue.

<pre>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre>

Reply to RichPLS

as i mentioned in another post.....

I think the free software market will boom here soon. I dont think the boom will be as big here, but in contries like vietnam and the ukraine it will hit alot bigger. Some of these countries simply cant afford to buy software for their computers, so they have no choice but to pirate it.

I have been reading in several places where some countries are implementing linux on most of their school/government computers.

As long as the Internet is around, I dont see the piracy numbers going down any. Why buy something when you can get it free on the net.

Here is the trick... make your software free... but dont tell anyone how to use it. When the want support.. charge them for it.

My PC:
Abit AX8 Socket 939 VIA K8T890
AMD Athlon 64 3200 Winchester
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WD Raptor 37 Gb SATA
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Reply to Bob369

The weakness with that method is newsgroups answering questions for free would undermine the charge for support scheme.

<pre>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre>

Reply to RichPLS

There is a reason free stuff never took off.. what can you honestly get legimately for free?

Even Linux will cost you money. If you want to get it from a vendor.. to install on 500 PCs.. you don't just buy 1 prepackeged copy. You buy the support.

I haven't seen one conclusive study to show that Linux is any cheaper to support than Windows is over X amount of time.

Free stuff is good.. but no one works for free.. who is going to support Linux for free.. for everyone?

Then again, as Linux becomes packaged by companies with all their work.. it will become more expensive for their support, so they can go on.. they'll turn into Microsoft in a sense.

Free software isn't going to blow up like you think.. it'll just float sub 10% for years..

Reply to Riser

it requires no instalation. you download the program and run it, it spits out a key. as far as i can tell it makes no modifications to your system. i find your complaints unreasonable.

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Reply to jihiggs

Quote :

First of all let me say that as of yet Microsoft has failed to shed any light on futureUnder effects windows validation might have on my ability to continue using Windows XP in the manner which I currently enjoy .

If you will please re-read my e-mails you will find that I have these main concerns .

My first concern is the manner in which Microsoft threatens loss of use of part of the download center should I decide not to install the validation software . Unfortunately it is too late for Microsoft to reconsider the methods used to encourage their customers to install this software .

The second concern myself and others have concerning this software is as I stated in my correspondence .
"Myself and others are also concerned about what may happen to Windows XP users that do clean re-installations often . We would like to know if this will pose a problem in the future . For example , will the patch cause any limitations after a certain number of installations ?"

The third concern as I stated before "Also there is concern about this causing problems to users of windows XP that upgrade their computer. For example , will windows XP customers be required to contact Microsoft to re-validate XP after installing a new motherboard , hard drive or other components ? "

And finally " At what point of upgrade does Microsoft consider the need purchase another copy of the operating system ? Isn't windows licensed to me as an individual so long as I only use it on one computer ?" 

It would be appreciated if you or another associate at Microsoft would answer these questions . I am publishing this correspondence on a technical forum and any light you can shed on these questions will alleviate concerns and allow your customers to make an informed decision as to whether or not to install this software .

NO NO NO... Go back and read it this time.

Do you honestly think that I would contact Microsoft about an issue if I didn't understand it's basics ?

These are all questions other members of the forum have expressed concerns over . If you read my post then you would have known that I do understand the purpose of this validation software . Please feel free to express your opinions about anything on this forum and posts that I make here . I only ask that concerning any posts I make that are of a informational / technical nature make sure you understand what I'm trying to say . I know that sometimes I may not make myself clearly understood . Whenever this happens I apologize .

As you post in this forum you will see that it is rarely that I actually post things that are technical or informational . The reason for this is that I never want to be the source of inaccurate or false information .

<A HREF="http://OverVolt.com" target="_new">http://OverVolt.com</A>
!#&$ :eek: ---There's the facts....the twisted facts ...the distorted facts...Then There's Journalism!

Reply to russell

What do you mean it requires no installation ? Don't you think that it is installed when you agree or for that matter unknowingly allow Microsoft to install it on your hard drive .

As far as not making any modifications to my system , I'm quite sure the contrary is true but as of yet it hasn't been proved or disproved. That's the reason for my correspondents to Microsoft . As I said before I have no problem proving to Microsoft that my copy of windows is legitimate . However, I would like Microsoft to answer questions I expressed in my correspondence with them . If they want to change something that I have already bought and paid for then I do not believe that asking Microsoft for clarification about what repercussions it will have on my use of their product is too much to ask . Another thing , the manner in which Microsoft threatened continued use of the download center ruffled my feathers right from the start . Had Microsoft publicly came out with a statement explaining effects the software would have, I probably would not have been compelled to contact Microsoft at all.

<A HREF="http://OverVolt.com" target="_new">http://OverVolt.com</A>
!#&$ :eek: ---There's the facts....the twisted facts ...the distorted facts...Then There's Journalism!

Reply to russell

That's what I said...

GOD LOVES CANADA

Reply to SoDNighthawk

I read your post and I fully understand it. You actually don't understand that is has nothing to do with your installations and such. It's just checking to make sure you have a valid key. Activation of XP and this are different. If you can't valid Windows, you won't have to bother with downloading updates since you only have 30 days.

They're telling you if you don't install this small update so they know you have a valid key they handed out, doesn't matter how many times it's installed, they just want to know it's not a pirated version of XP, yes you will lose some functionality because you won't install this. I know you're digging to get more information but I'm afraid you won't get it.

Your second and third questions are covered with XP Activation, not this geniune update.

All this update really does is checks to make sure you have a legimate license key in your system. Not a blacklisted key, or a fake generated key that still works, or no key at all, or a cracked version. It doesn't check how many times it's been installed, it just verifies it's a key they issued.

Like I said before, I've been using this service for around 2-3 months now when downloading certain things off Microsoft's website. All I do is enter in my license key and it'd let me download. This installed app just validates the key is legit and it's done.

It has absolutely nothing to do with activation. If you constantly rebuild your machine, WGU isn't going to be your problem, activation is. But then again, that was very clear when XP was released.

You're kind of running around in circles with your last 2 questions.

Back to your first Concern. In order to make something effective, they really can't make it volunteer. "Please install this software so we can check to make sure you have a valid license.. but it's voluntary.. you don't have to." That just wouldn't work. Everyone has to do it. They really don't have another way or option around it.

While I admire your ability to contact Microsoft and question them on this, I don't think your questions were well thought out because it seems that while you understand what WGU is, and why it's there, you don't understand what it does. If you understood what it does, then you wouldn't have your questions

Reply to Riser

Btw, in your opening sentences of your very first post about this..

You bought your computer with Windows preinstalled.. That's an OEM copy. That means it's only licensed to run on that motherboard. Everyone else doesn't matter, aside from the CPU which might have an effect.

That license isn't licensed to you. It's licensed to that computer, meaning you can't uninstall that and install it on another computer legally. That's why they give you recovery CDs and not the actual XP cd. But I also had a nice article on how to make an XP cd from the recovery CDs.

I worked heavily on licensing with Microsoft for 2 years.. I got a lot of benefits from understanding it.. and I learned a lot of things you can, and can't do.

Best one is while it's illegal to install the software multiple times, Microsoft won't take action against you unless you use it for profit or as your main source of it. If you have 2 computers, one with the legit software and you install it on your 2nd computer.. microsoft's not against that unless you let someone else use that computer. They discourage pirating, but they encourage people to use their software freely because then people will use it in the workplace. It's a necessary evil which is why you see them hitting the OS so hard. They want people to use Office, front page, outlook.. but the OS is so dominate they don't want everyone illegally using it.

Reply to Riser

The final corespondence from Microsoft.
********** Everywhere you see "we" it should read "you" *********

Quote :

Dear Russell,

Thank you for your response and for the time you have spent on our issue.

First, I apologize for ignoring your concerns.

First, I would like to explain that we must install the Windows Genuine Advantage Validation tool (WGA) so that we can download the latest updates from the download center. On the other hand, if you don't want to install this tool, we can use Automatic Update to update the computer. Using genuine M
icrosoft software offers you greater capabilities and easy integration with the widest variety of hardware, software, and services. It also provides confidence that you will receive the latest product features, updates, and ongoing improvements to keep your PC performing at its best.

Second, if we reinstall the computer, we should validate the Windows again. This means that we will be required to download an ActiveX control to check whether their copy of Windows has been activated. Microsoft offers an online validation process that enables you to verify that your copy of Window
s is genuine.

Third, after validating Windows, we can then install a new motherboard, hard drive or other components. Also, we don't need to re-validate. Please be assured that if we have been validated, this means that Windows is genuine.

Finally, I would like to explain that if the report displays that it is invalid key, we should purchase another copy of the Operating System. Since the Product Key may be stolen or the a copy of the Operating System it is piracy.

If you have any other question on this issue, please feel free to let me know. I am glad to give you assistance. Also, I suggest we visit the following site to learn how to recognize genuine Windows software:

<<http://www.microsoft.com/resources/howtotell/ww/windows/default.mspx>>

In the meantime, I would like to confirm whether this issue is resolved. If not, please capture a screenshot when you encounter trouble, and send the picture file to me for research. I have attached the following steps to capture a screenshot:

1. Keep the window on the screen.

2. Press the Print Screen key (PrtScn) on your keyboard.

3. Click Start, click Run, type "mspaint", and click OK.

4. In Paint, click Paste under the Edit menu, click Save under the File menu, type a file name for the screenshot, choose JPEG as "Save as type", and click Save.

5. Send this file to my email account: v-30amyx@mssupport.microsoft.com <mailto:v-30amyx@mssupport.microsoft.com> directly.

Please also attach the two Windows Update log files C:\Windows\WindowsUpdate.log and Windows Update.log (if present).

I appreciate your time collecting the above information. If anything is unclear, please don't hesitate to let me know and I will be glad to help.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Best Regards,

Amy Xu

My reply

Quote :

Amy,

Once again thank you for promptly answering my questions .

You have satisfactorily answered my questions. and I thank you for your time . It has been my pleasure working with you and I'm quite happy with the responses you have given me .

I will be more than happy for you to close this case .

Thank you for your indulgence ,

Russell Chambers

<A HREF="http://OverVolt.com" target="_new">http://OverVolt.com</A>
!#&$ :eek: ---There's the facts....the twisted facts ...the distorted facts...Then There's Journalism!

Reply to russell

Forum Old Man/Woman's Club : Other - Microsoft validation patch

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Microsoft validation patch

Forum Old Man/Woman's Club : Other - Microsoft validation patch

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