Weird RL weapons from history

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Hi all,

I've been to Dresden lately, where I visited (among others) an arms and armor museum.

Some weird weapons that were displayed there:
A sword with the blade made from the jaw of a saw-fish or saw-shark.
A so-called bore-sword, very pointed, quite thin and 3.45 m long!
A normal(?) two-handed (broad)sword over 2 m long.

Some weird combination-weapons:
Pistols combined with whips, maces, partisans, axes etc.

They all looked quite unusable for real fighting...

Anyway, the museums and the baroque-era buildings are very impressive
and Dresden is a beautiful city (nicknamed Elb-Florence).

LL

 

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On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 11:37:06 GMT, Lorenz Lang scrawled:

> Hi all,
>
> I've been to Dresden lately, where I visited (among others) an arms and
> armor museum.
>
> Some weird weapons that were displayed there:
> A sword with the blade made from the jaw of a saw-fish or saw-shark.

Evidently where they got the inspiration for some of the more tribal
weapons in Xena.

> A so-called bore-sword, very pointed, quite thin and 3.45 m long!
> A normal(?) two-handed (broad)sword over 2 m long.
>

The Scots have a greatsword similar to that - I can't remember if it's a
claymore, or if it's got a different name. I think the Landschnect (sp?)
also had one.

> Some weird combination-weapons:
> Pistols combined with whips, maces, partisans, axes etc.
>
> They all looked quite unusable for real fighting...
>
> Anyway, the museums and the baroque-era buildings are very impressive
> and Dresden is a beautiful city (nicknamed Elb-Florence).
>
> LL
>

Sounds weird.

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On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 11:52:39 +0000, Rexx Magnus wrote:

> On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 11:37:06 GMT, Lorenz Lang scrawled:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've been to Dresden lately, where I visited (among others) an arms and
>> armor museum.
>>
>> Some weird weapons that were displayed there:
>> A sword with the blade made from the jaw of a saw-fish or saw-shark.
>
> Evidently where they got the inspiration for some of the more tribal
> weapons in Xena.
>
>> A so-called bore-sword, very pointed, quite thin and 3.45 m long!
>> A normal(?) two-handed (broad)sword over 2 m long.
>>
>
> The Scots have a greatsword similar to that - I can't remember if it's a
> claymore, or if it's got a different name.

A claymore was or is a DnD weapon too IIRC - dwarven claymore even?

> I think the Landschnect (sp?) also had one.

You're close Landsknecht (pl. -e).

In the museum they had a Flamberge, a two-handed sword a bit smaller than the
above: 5-6 feet long with a wavy (?) blade like a Kris.
I think this type of sword was a Landsknecht-weapon. It sure looked (more) usable.

At other places I've seen other (medieval) two-handed swords which were always in the
5-6 feet range. Those giant swords in Dresden really astounded me...

LL

 

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On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 12:27:09 GMT, Lorenz Lang scrawled:

>> I think the Landschnect (sp?) also had one.
>
> You're close Landsknecht (pl. -e).
>
> In the museum they had a Flamberge, a two-handed sword a bit smaller
> than the above: 5-6 feet long with a wavy (?) blade like a Kris.
> I think this type of sword was a Landsknecht-weapon. It sure looked
> (more) usable.

Yes, that's the one I was thinking of, both the spelling and the sword.

--
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To email me, visit the site.

 

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Lorenz Lang wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>I've been to Dresden lately, where I visited (among others) an arms and armor museum.
>
>Some weird weapons that were displayed there:
>A sword with the blade made from the jaw of a saw-fish or saw-shark.
>A so-called bore-sword, very pointed, quite thin and 3.45 m long!
>A normal(?) two-handed (broad)sword over 2 m long.
>
>Some weird combination-weapons:
>Pistols combined with whips, maces, partisans, axes etc.
>
>They all looked quite unusable for real fighting...
>
>Anyway, the museums and the baroque-era buildings are very impressive
>and Dresden is a beautiful city (nicknamed Elb-Florence).
>
>LL
>
>
Might I suggest Higgins Armoury in Worchester Mass.? Right here in
the US and one of the finest collections known.

--
Tetsubo
My page: http://home.comcast.net/~tetsubo/
--------------------------------------
If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
-- Anatole France

 

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Lorenz Lang wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've been to Dresden lately, where I visited (among others) an arms and armor museum.
>
> Some weird weapons that were displayed there:
> A sword with the blade made from the jaw of a saw-fish or saw-shark.
> A so-called bore-sword, very pointed, quite thin and 3.45 m long!
> A normal(?) two-handed (broad)sword over 2 m long.

One of my favorite places is...

Saalburg up in the Taunus mountains. That was an ancient Roman
outpost, the deepest into Germany that the Romans penetrated. The
fort was overrun and the Romans dumped their weapons and valuables
into the wells to keep them from being captured. The result is an
excellent collection of weapons, art, valuables, and mundane items
at the local museum there.


http://www.saalburgmuseum.de/homeeng.htm
and
http://www.saalburgmuseum.de/english/aa/start_e.htm
and...
http://romanhistorybooksandmore.freeservers.com/t_saalburg2.htm


Re,
Dirk

 

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Rexx Magnus <trashcan@uk2.net> abagooba zoink larblortch
news:Xns962E83025DB52rexxdeansaund@130.133.1.4:

> The Scots have a greatsword similar to that - I can't remember if it's a
> claymore, or if it's got a different name. I think the Landschnect (sp?)
> also had one.

The two-handed claymore* was generally not as long as the zweihander of the
"double-soldier". They had different tactical purposes. The German weapon
was to be used in formation with pike. The Scottish was used in a more
loose tactical formation.

Now, if you want screamingly crazy weapon design, consider the pike-
longbow. The longbow was to be mounted athwart the pikestaff. I believe
that it was only ever a "theoretical" weapon. No practical soldier or
member of a trayned bande would have even considered using it. Combine two
of the most specialist-heavy weapons in history into one weapon that
neither specialist will be able to use well. That kind of insanity usually
has to wait until the industrial era.

 

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Tetsubo wrote:

> Might I suggest Higgins Armoury in Worchester Mass.? Right here in
> the US and one of the finest collections known.

Been there; not so impressed. Contents are fine, but the presentation
leaves something to be desired. It's worth going to if you're in the
vicinity, but not worth making a special trip.


Robert Huff

 

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On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 17:50:23 +0000, Dirk Collins wrote:

> One of my favorite places is...
>
> Saalburg up in the Taunus mountains. That was an ancient Roman
> outpost, the deepest into Germany that the Romans penetrated. The
> fort was overrun and the Romans dumped their weapons and valuables
> into the wells to keep them from being captured. The result is an
> excellent collection of weapons, art, valuables, and mundane items
> at the local museum there.
>
>
> http://www.saalburgmuseum.de/homeeng.htm
> and
> http://www.saalburgmuseum.de/english/aa/start_e.htm
> and...
> http://romanhistorybooksandmore.freeservers.com/t_saalburg2.htm
>

I've been there some years ago while visiting friends.
It was very impressive - the taunus forests would be a good place
for some wandering even without the fort.

LL

 

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On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 17:36:20 -0400, Tetsubo wrote:

> Lorenz Lang wrote:
>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>I've been to Dresden lately, where I visited (among others) an arms and armor museum.
>>
>>Some weird weapons that were displayed there:
>>A sword with the blade made from the jaw of a saw-fish or saw-shark.
>>A so-called bore-sword, very pointed, quite thin and 3.45 m long!
>>A normal(?) two-handed (broad)sword over 2 m long.
>>
>>Some weird combination-weapons:
>>Pistols combined with whips, maces, partisans, axes etc.
>>
>>They all looked quite unusable for real fighting...
>>
>>Anyway, the museums and the baroque-era buildings are very impressive
>>and Dresden is a beautiful city (nicknamed Elb-Florence).
>>
>>LL
>>
>>
> Might I suggest Higgins Armoury in Worchester Mass.? Right here in
> the US and one of the finest collections known.

Sure, for those unfortunates living in the USA...
;-)

What do you think of the usability of the mentioned giant-sized weapons?
I googled for "Bohrschwert" and only found normal-sized ones (around 4
feet length).

LL

 

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Lorenz Lang wrote:

>On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 17:36:20 -0400, Tetsubo wrote:
>
>
>
>>Lorenz Lang wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>I've been to Dresden lately, where I visited (among others) an arms and armor museum.
>>>
>>>Some weird weapons that were displayed there:
>>>A sword with the blade made from the jaw of a saw-fish or saw-shark.
>>>A so-called bore-sword, very pointed, quite thin and 3.45 m long!
>>>A normal(?) two-handed (broad)sword over 2 m long.
>>>
>>>Some weird combination-weapons:
>>>Pistols combined with whips, maces, partisans, axes etc.
>>>
>>>They all looked quite unusable for real fighting...
>>>
>>>Anyway, the museums and the baroque-era buildings are very impressive
>>>and Dresden is a beautiful city (nicknamed Elb-Florence).
>>>
>>>LL
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Might I suggest Higgins Armoury in Worchester Mass.? Right here in
>>the US and one of the finest collections known.
>>
>>
>
>Sure, for those unfortunates living in the USA...
>;-)
>
>What do you think of the usability of the mentioned giant-sized weapons?
>I googled for "Bohrschwert" and only found normal-sized ones (around 4
>feet length).
>
>LL
>
>
I've always thought that uber-weapons, often seen in collections,
were either presentation items or wall-hangers. No warrior worth the
name is going to use a weapon that is one ounce heavier than it needs to
be. Which is why I have always HATED the weights listed in D&D...

--
Tetsubo
My page: http://home.comcast.net/~tetsubo/
--------------------------------------
If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
-- Anatole France

 

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Lorenz Lang <lang@netlife.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 11:52:39 +0000, Rexx Magnus wrote:
>> On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 11:37:06 GMT, Lorenz Lang scrawled:
>>
>>> A so-called bore-sword, very pointed, quite thin and 3.45 m long!
>>> A normal(?) two-handed (broad)sword over 2 m long.
>>
>> The Scots have a greatsword similar to that - I can't remember if it's a
>> claymore, or if it's got a different name.
>
> A claymore was or is a DnD weapon too IIRC - dwarven claymore even?

I thought claymores were pretty small for two-handed swords. Less than
5 feet.

>> I think the Landschnect (sp?) also had one.
>
> You're close Landsknecht (pl. -e).
>
> In the museum they had a Flamberge, a two-handed sword a bit smaller than the
> above: 5-6 feet long with a wavy (?) blade like a Kris.
> I think this type of sword was a Landsknecht-weapon. It sure looked (more) usable.
>
> At other places I've seen other (medieval) two-handed swords which were always in the
> 5-6 feet range. Those giant swords in Dresden really astounded me...

I've been told that greatswords are actually closer to polearms than to
regular swords, so even longer swords don't sound all that unreasonable.
I'd expect very long handles on swords like that, though.


mcv.

 

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mcv <mcvmcv@xs3.xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
> I've been told that greatswords are actually closer to polearms than to
> regular swords, so even longer swords don't sound all that unreasonable.
> I'd expect very long handles on swords like that, though.

Or using the ricasso (area just above the guard) as a secondary place
for the hand.

In practice and competition I've seen greatswords used much like
quarterstaves. There's also quite a bit of pointwork and surprisingly
little 'swinging' involved.

Also, contrary to many people's expectation, greatswords are fast. Yes,
they're markedly heavier than, say, a rapier (which is actually heavier
than most people think anyway), but the leverage you gain by using two
hands makes up for it quite handily.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "English is not a language. English is a
keith.davies@kjdavies.org bad habit shared between Norman invaders
keith.davies@gmail.com and Saxon barmaids!"
http://www.kjdavies.org/ -- Frog, IRC, 2005/01/13

 

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Lorenz Lang wrote:
> Some weird weapons that were displayed there:
> A sword with the blade made from the jaw of a saw-fish or saw-shark.

The new Little house on the Prarie ABC miniseries just had an amerindian show
one off to Laura. I guess it was buffalo or something.
--
"... respect, all good works are not done by only good folk ..."
--till next time, Jameson Stalanthas Yu -x- <<poetry.dolphins-cove.com>>

 

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~consul wrote:

> Lorenz Lang wrote:
>
>> Some weird weapons that were displayed there:
>> A sword with the blade made from the jaw of a saw-fish or saw-shark.
>
>
> The new Little house on the Prarie ABC miniseries just had an
> amerindian show one off to Laura. I guess it was buffalo or something.

There's an antique store in NH that has two swordfish "blades" for sale.

--
Tetsubo
My page: http://home.comcast.net/~tetsubo/
--------------------------------------
If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
-- Anatole France