Which CPU should I get?

*sighs*

firstly... there is only one "pooh" on this board. its me the grand poobaa. *grins*

secondly... all current amd products use a DOUBLE pumped system bus.
thus 100mhz = 200, 133 = 266.
133/266 are usually interchangable.

thirdly... i doubt you will ever notice the difference between a athlon 1.4 and an p4. anyway... as you said different benchmarks give different results, thus, take the benchmarks with a grain of salt.

i just say look at the price of each and see how they fit your budget. if you want to spend alot of money of the best of the best, go for the P4.
if you want to save alot of cash, go the athlon 1.4.

I'll respect your comments & opinions, even if i disagree with them, Provided you display maturity.

An AZZA board with the new via ddr chipset for socket 478 is coming out next week, for about $112. I don't know if any of the major boardmakers will use this chipset, but with a 1.7 cpu, it will run about $360.

personally, I would not put AMD on a work server, home server use is ok (I have active directory and stuff at home, writing this from Win2k srv), but not the real world apps (just my thought  

Post, we'll do the "search"... :wink:

Why, amd chips are just as stable and long lasting as intel chips, thats fud right there buddy.

~Matisaro~
"Friends don't let friends buy Pentiums"
~Tbird1.3@1.55~

I'm not sure but I think it should be ok to use an amd in a server, Rackspace.com uses them.

When I go into a computer store I lose all means of reason for some reason.

I wouldn't hesitate to put an AMD in a server. Unless someone just happened to drop some xenons into my lap.

What is the difference between <font color=red>pink</font color=red> and <font color=purple>purple</font color=purple>? The <b>GRIP</b>!

ja, so does Anandtech. I have no problems getting 100% stable Athlon servers going.

Kelledin

"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."

did you guys bother to read what his needs were? he said he's looking for a web/e-commerce solution, not a damn bbs board like anandtech!

you ppl need a spanking!

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"

And RackSpace *doesn't* do web/e-commerce solutions? :tongue:

Besides which, AnandTech's servers still make the point well enough. I know this breaks your heart, but AMD systems are quite stable.

Kelledin

"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."

What I don't get is if the P4 2GHz only outperforms the 1.4tb by 10~20 percent then why would you even consider a p4 1.5GHz?

What is the difference between <font color=red>pink</font color=red> and <font color=purple>purple</font color=purple>? The <b>GRIP</b>!

I say get the P4 if you need the most power, Tbird if your on a budget. The P4 will only be a little faster, but if the server is gonna get smacked you may need that extra bit. Also SCSI drives will help alot if you are feeding lots of different files out, so you may want to set down with your budget and see what you can get, taking into account that memory, bandwidth, and drive speed are all at least as important as the CPU you decide to use!

Get the Athlon for sure! It will significantly outperform the 1.5GHz P4 anyday. There is nothing wrong with using the Athlon as a server unless you want to overclock it. Just get top-quality components and you're set.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by AMD_Man on 08/31/01 03:36 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

Crap, I read the original question wrong....P4 1.5 vs Tbird 1.4, Tbird wins every time. I was thinking 2000 vs 1400. The Tbird 1400 with some nice LVD160 are certainly the way to go =)

Hey, buddy, I said "just my thought", read carefully first, then accuse.

And the reason I have said it, because I have P3 and K7 exact same systems with exact same servers on them, and sometimes (once in a very looooong while) K7 gives me HARD LOCK, it is just dead, I have to use hard reset to bring it back. Thats under very hard load (downloading stuff with GetRight, running ZoneAlarm, playing UT, blah, blah, blah and then "wooops", hellooo, are you alive :?(

That is why I have said so, and that is my own experience and opinion, not a "fud, buddy"  


Post, we'll do the "search"... :wink:

I have the same problem with my Athlon system, once in a while (1-2 weeks) my machine will lock hard. I'm a true believer in AMD Athlon line of products for workstations but when it comes to server I'm a bit less confident. I personnaly only trust OEM Server manufacturers for servers and preffer IBM. You really get what you pay for. I dont say that AMD as not a good product for servers but when OEM's will trust them, I will. It's the same with Intel clones, I will never put a clone computer as a server, but it's only my opinion.

It's better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick!

I like AMD systems, they "seam" a little faster than Intel ones, but AMD systems have their problems with mobo chipsets, not the CPU, so if someone will give me a good chipset mobo, I would (maybe) put it on the commercial server.

Post, we'll do the "search"... :wink:

You got that right AMD=Play, Intel=Work. Just my thoughts...

:cool: <font color=blue> I know nothing that is why i am here at THG!</font color=blue>

Even I am trying to use them "backward" AMD=Work, Intel=Both, but I am getting more and more convinced that AMD=Games, Intel=Anything. Just my observations...

Post, we'll do the "search"... :wink:

Look at the MSI K7 Master. I heard a lot of good things about that motherboard.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

<i>What I don't get is if the P4 2GHz only outperforms the 1.4tb by 10~20 percent then why would you even consider a p4 1.5GHz?</i>

Budget is the main killer

Sooty Pooh!

Hehehe - """ I want to set up a web/e-commerce server on Windows 2000 and I'm not sure what to get. """

Hehehe - """ Budget is the main killer """

Hehehe - what kind of a """web/e-commerce server on Windows 2000""" you are talking about if you have such a tight budget that you cant pay 200 bux more for the prosesir? I think you will loose much more if you will have decent business going and yer "web/e-commerce server on Windows 2000" will make a hiccup during busy day (just my thought, no "fud"), but then again, Intel can stop working any time as well (just my experience, no "fud"), hehehe

Just a curiosity, but I wonder what you are going to sell?

Anyway, that was funny... heh


Post, we'll do the "search"... :wink:

<i>Hehehe - """ Budget is the main killer """

Hehehe - what kind of a """web/e-commerce server on Windows 2000""" you are talking about if you have such a tight budget that you cant pay 200 bux more for the prosesir? I think you will loose much more if you will have decent business going and yer "web/e-commerce server on Windows 2000" will make a hiccup during busy day (just my thought, no "fud"), but then again, Intel can stop working any time as well (just my experience, no "fud"), hehehe</i>

Good point. Might have to hold off a little longer if I'm going to go for the P4 2Ghz.

The reason why we're on a tight budget is because we're starting up a new company from scratch. We currently don't have anyone backing me up like a VC. We've only got so much money to allocate to different parts of the business.

<i>Just a curiosity, but I wonder what you are going to sell?</i>

We specialise in Performance gear for BMWs. We make some of the best and fastest supercharged BMWs in Australia. We're looking export it to the US and the UK where we've already had interest. Plus we're making our own gear. We've got some products at this stage being drawn up for paitenting. We'll also be putting together information together to educate customers what everything does and we'll be providing it in such a way that they'll be able to make clear educated decisions. One that is currently very hard to do at this stage on the internet. We can't tell you much more than that, but wish us luck!

Sooty Pooh!

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by sootypooh on 08/31/01 08:36 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

Take in account UNIX as an alternative also when thinking about customers, reliability of services. Check local HP used stuff store.
My buddy bought UX server for the price of PC's. I saw Sparcs Solaris for $3000CND, delivery included.

I'd personally stay away from HP-UX though. Last I heard, half the software is about six versions behind the times. FreeBSD or Linux would do well though.

Kelledin

"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."

Well, there is one way to go then: get anything you can afford at this point and when you will get business going get something better.

Athlon will do the job well for the beginning, difference between 1 GHz and 1.4 is only 40-50 bux I believe, there is no such a big need in that fast of the prosesir for a start-up web site (I dont think you will get much traffic in the beginning) and 1 Gig is way more than there are on the websites which were build even 1 year ago, so save on prosesir and get high quality mobo and SCSI harddrive setup, that thing will give you much quicker response time than any speed CPU with IDE, especially on high traffic.

But again, those just are my thoughts, that is what I would personally do, start with what I can get and grow with business growing (cos, I dont know if there will be any business at all, so I will spend all that money for nothing). Ask around, you may get a cheap P3 system somewhere.

Good luck with your stuff.


Post, we'll do the "search"... :wink:

Hey, got a job for me in Melbourne?

Go for it I say, good luck with your new venture.



Medication helps :smile:

well.. right now i have a dual intel system. before i had a dual intel system. it'll be another 1 1/2-2 years before a new system, but i'll guarntee you it's going to be an amd system. just so tired of intel.

CPUs are like testicles, every computer should have 2!

Yes, I agree with you about HP,
and Linux as a better solution.
In comparison with Win2000 (and any MS product) also.
More reliable and secure for web services, in my understanding.
Probably, the look (interface) of Win2000 is more fancy and pleasant though.

Sorry, I've been gone for a while. The 1.4 tb will definately out preform a 1.5p4, it's on par with a 1.8p4. So I'm trying to say is why are you comparing a 1.4tb to a 2Ghz p4 and going to go with the 1.5 p4 ... I don't get it. I say just use dual athlon MP's if you have the cash for a 2Ghzp4.

What is the difference between <font color=red>pink</font color=red> and <font color=purple>purple</font color=purple>? The <b>GRIP</b>!

Well said Yah.
Win2000 on dual Athlon4 will leave any Pee from Intel miles behind. Even dual Pee has no chance.

Breaking news: Intel hit by a SledgeHammer! AMD to blame! More in just a moment...

Some of the benchmarks showed the P4 1.5ghz out performing the Athlon 1.4Ghz in certain tasks.

Maybe my mention of the 2Ghz P4 was unfair.

Sooty Pooh!

So if I programmed a test that showed the K6-2 outperforming an overclocked 2.2GHz Northwood and posted it on the internet, you'd all believe that a K6-2 is faster than a 2.2GHz Northwood? Actually, some people would.
Too bad I'm not a programmer.



<font color=blue>Quarter pounder inside</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Change the Sig of the Week!!!</font color=red>

LoL, yeah, one benchmark only a videoeditor(not 3d rendering mind you) would use, woop de doo, and with the kt266a the 1.4ghz tbird is EQUAL to the p4 2ghz and will out perform the 1.8.

~Matisaro~
"Friends don't let friends buy Pentiums"
~Tbird1.3@1.55~

sis735 from ecs, stable as hell, and fast.

~Matisaro~
"Friends don't let friends buy Pentiums"
~Tbird1.3@1.55~

Hmmm Webserver!! huh!!!

Well somebody correct me if I am wrong...but shouldn't the focus be on fast harddrive with low access times...lots of fast ram...etc...

CPU Pentium 3 600 will do just fine....

But if you are a serious Company but only real small. and dont want to deal with maintaining a Webserver get a host...
They will charge you a monthly fee and quarantee that the servers will always be online...

Sounds like you are otherwise heading in to too much trouble if you already have a problem deciding on the CPU...

But thats the Problem all Newbees...they only see Mhz...they dont see the importance of having a complete system as long as its a P-4 2 giga hertz with 128 PC-133 RAM ...etc... Hey Neebees buy a C-64...and work your way up.

I miss the days when computers where not a mass medium...

WTF?
You're going to use a P3 600 as a webserver? Alright...

And BTW, he's asking about CPUs, not RAM and hard drives. I would assume he already has those figured out, or is waiting for later to decide, or whatever.

Lots of people have trouble deciding between Intel and AMD. Both companies made good products. Is there a problem with that?



<font color=blue>Quarter pounder inside</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Change the Sig of the Week!!!</font color=red>

LoL, p3 600 for a web commerce server lol.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

Ok maybe p 600 is too weak...

As if the information he gives you is enough to diagnose that he will require a P-4. Or P-3, or AMD. He did not say how much Traffic he will have/expects (afterall he is a real business), what kind of web applications will be running etc.

Infact maybe he should get a Dual P-3 600 and he might be better off.

My diagnostic is just as valid or invalid as yours. And you can say what you want. Fact remains he can better get a professional Host.

Not all too long ago people were running Webservers on P-600 or less.

But as I said any suggestion made in this thread is superfluous, as nobody (which includes myself) has enough information to give proper advice.

When accusing me of making a mistake, dont be pathetic to commit the same mistake that you are accusing me of doing. Because what does that make you?

He asked for the best bang for his buck, and be it dual athlopnmp's or a single 1.4 its AMD. He asked a question about cpu's and I answered it. You were the one who brought all this extra crap into the equasion. He did not ask about harddrives or ram, he asked specifically about the cpu.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

http/web server is not that cpu intensive. It in most cases just reads files and sends them to the requesting client. Running Word or Photoshop is muh more CPU/resource intensive unless you are doing multiple GB/s per day.

I have a little Cellery 333 with 64 megs RAM running as a little staging server here and it occasionally hits 500M-1GB in a day. Most web sites only do a few 10's of megs/day, so if a server isn't expected to hit multiple gigs/day, even a 600mhz CPU is plenty. If running Linux you can cut it in half again...down to 300mhz.

Of course, my little staging server is running PWS on Win98, so that can affect stability...I have to reboot on average every 10 days or so.

Also, just a year or so ago many companies were running 450mhz systems as servers and those were considered top end systems. So 600 mhz should be fine unless running Win2K or something.

Mark-

When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!

Yeup, it's W2k.



<font color=blue>Quarter pounder inside</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Change the Sig of the Week!!!</font color=red>

Read what they're asking, and don't talk down to us.



<font color=blue>Quarter pounder inside</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Change the Sig of the Week!!!</font color=red>

Thankyou Burger.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

WEll Fatburger.

What is the Anwser then, on all your posts you do not anwser his question either. In fact, you already went off on a tangeant before I contributed to the thread. LAbbering about benchmarks.

And if you read the other posts of the Original Author, you will notice that he is on a budget.

As for AMD or Intel, I do regard them as equals with small differences. The P-600 was only used as an example.

Obviously for some reason you are taking the thread personal (including other threads). I am flathered that my remarks seem to annoy you, and provoke reaction. But remember you critised me first, including the Person with the dilemma, and various other users. Which does not mean that critsism is bad, however you only have a negativ attitude, towards people who dont share your opinion or try to add to a discussion.

Which Processor is going to be AMD 1.4 or Intel 2.0??
Which one would you get? Afterall I am totally wrong and have no clue what so ever. Natrually you do!

I went off on a tangent about benchmarks? Not at all. He said something about a P4 1.5 beating a Tbird 1.4 in "some tests", so I told him to look at the big picture, in a round-about way.

I shouldn't have belittled your comment about using a P3-600. You made a good point. I apologize.

Making the thread personal? I just dislike being talked down to by someone first setting foot in these forums. It happens all the times, and it drives me (and many others) nuts. Too many people don't realize how much knowledge there is around here. I'm only just starting to feel like I know some of what I'm talking about.

"But remember you critised me first, including the Person with the dilemma, and various other users."

I criticised you, yes. But because you had a haughty attitude and didn't answer the original question (but acted like you were). Not because of your opinions.
When did I criticise anyone else? I don't think I did, or didn't mean to.

"you only have a negativ attitude, towards people who dont share your opinion or try to add to a discussion."
Not at all. Like I said before, it's how things are said, not what is said.


So now you want me to answer his original question? Very well. Here's my answer:

I'd recommend the Tbird 1.4
It will crush the P4 1.5 in pretty much every circumstance you can throw at it.



<font color=blue>Quarter pounder inside</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Change the Sig of the Week!!!</font color=red>

All AMD machines are in harms way when in the event of cooling failure and the processor can destroy itself in a matter of seconds. You can think that it wont happen to me but your betting on a HSF with a "lets pray" >1 year life expectancy depending on the quality and environment.

Check out the daily, "help with my AMD" posts on this forum. the reason why they are asking for help is because they are overheating and crashing/causing alot of problems.

Hard to find 1 page without someone with such problem.

Go with the Intel P4/478 since they are available now. I would not recomend DDR/SDR motherboard for socket 478 since the manufacturers did not have rights to produce nor the Intel bus designs to produce such chipset perfectly. These motherboards are created through reverse engineering of the i850 chipset.

Follow FUGGERS advice if you want to spend more money and get less performance, FUGGER has been proven an intel troll time and time again, and has NOTHING to contribute to a meaningful discussion.

Get the processor which suits your budget best, the athlon 1.4 will be more powerful than the p41.5 and it cost less, the choice could NOT be more blatantly obvious.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

Sebester, the origional poster IS on a budget, then can you, realizing he is on a budget, JUSTIFY, spending more for a p4 which will perform less?

Thought not.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

At least someone who gives some decent advise.
Indeed, I do not think cpu performance should be the prime concern. I really- REALLY - doubt a startup shop for BMW spares/add ons would generate so much traffic, a Celeron 300 wouldnt be able to cope with it. I used to work for a webagency that did its own hosting.. for some major local (belgian) customers (Fortis, Samsonite and others). Fastest machine we had was a dual Pentium II 450... and most sites where on shared servers with a cpu load well below 10%..

So, a few remarks:
1) do not get ONE machine, get at the very least two (one database, one webserver) that are half as fast.

2) Make your setup as redudant as possible. Yes, that would mean 4 machines ideally (2x web, 2x db), but they could be the slowest machines you can still buy. (also, consider used servers)

3) You cannot possibly be budget restrained on the cpu.. Do you know what a SQL server licence costs these days ?? That buys you a truckload of cpu's !!

4) Think UNIX/Linux. More uptime, less licence fees (none), lower hardware requirements.

5) think ISP. On the long run, it *will* be cheaper, more reliable and more flexible.

Athlon or P3/4 really seems like a non issue here to me..

---- Owner of the only Dell computer with an AMD chip