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AMD and Heat

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September 18, 2001 11:15:38 PM

Finally this issue gets the attention it deserves. This <A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q3/010917/index.html" target="_new">THG Heat article</A> tells it like it is. If you like AMD fine, just be careful not to let your HS come off.

I have been warning people about this for some time and all I ever got was a bunch of AMD heads telling me to shut up. Well now I will shut up because the issue has been givin the attention it deserves.

More about : amd heat

September 18, 2001 11:43:17 PM

Thank you captain obvious.

--
It's Princess Leia, the yodel of my life. Give me my sweater back or I'll play the guitar.
September 19, 2001 12:06:58 AM

are you psychotic?? I mean that is a one in 100,000 chance of occurance. That review wasn't very good. There are to many things that would never happen.

Nice <b><font color=green>Lizards</b></font color=green> <b>crunch</b> Trolls cookies....... :smile: Yummy!! :smile:
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September 19, 2001 12:27:07 AM

And that's the way, hunh-uh hunh-uh, I like it!
And that's the way, hunh-uh hunh-uh, I like it!

Burn it down, baby!!!

Whoooo-hooooo!

<font color=blue>I hacked Msft, and all I got was this lousy source code.....</font color=blue>
September 19, 2001 12:48:58 AM

Wow Man! Thanks for the tip! I was just about to take my heatsink off while running a Quake3 Demo to see what would happen! I can't owe you enough! Seeing as how yur so smart, can you help me decide whether or not to do the following??

Should I stick a garden hose in the inside of my case so my Athlon will be watercooled?

Should I eat the green berries? The ones in my backyard next to all the animal carcasses?

Thanks for all your help, man!

"If you teach a child to read, then he or her will be able to pass a literacy test" - George W.
September 19, 2001 9:17:34 AM

You AMD guys are such A$$HOLES. If the chances of needing heat protection are 1 in 100,000 then explain to me how out of 4 responses this thread has so far one of you (that I know of) has burned up your AMD CPU. I guess it should be very "obvious" to who I'm refering...<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&..." target="_new"> evidence</A>

I had a heat sink come off in shipping and didn't think to open the case on a brand new computer to check for this. Thank goodness it was on an Intel box so all it did was hang. So lets see out of a total of 5 people in this thread so far 2 have had the problem. I'm doing a little math in my head and coming up with 40% of the people in this thread have had a HS problem. This is a whole lot more than 1 in 100,000.

All I ask any of you crazy AMD heads to do is help newbies so they don't bake a nice new CPU.
September 19, 2001 9:30:33 AM

I guess that why they call you dumb?
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
September 19, 2001 11:33:22 AM

Hey! I just took the heatsink off my Athlon and it stopped working??? Funny thing is, for .2 secs it still outperformed a Pentium rated at twice the clock speed!!!

What a crock...
September 19, 2001 12:25:59 PM

I thought the review was very good, testing the thermal protection schemes of each company under the <b>WORST</b> conditions possible.

True, it is highly unlikely that a HSF will fall off, and it is highly unlikely that a ball-bearing HSF will fail. But thermal protection is a long time feature of Intel chips, and has just been adopted by Palomino. A worst case test was done to see how well they perform. We all know the results, and even if the tests were not performed by THG, we all would have known what would have happened anyway. It is no secret that AMD chips will be destroyed if a HSF fails. While THG did not need to confirm this, it was interesting to see just how well the Intel protection works.

There could have been other tests, for example stopping the fan while leaving the heat sink attached. But even here, I feel (no evidence and won't risk frying my TBird) that the AMD chips will be destroyed over a short period of time (30 minutes, perhaps) should the fan fail and no other means of protection is available.

THG should have mentioned that fan failure protection is easily achieved by using Motherboard Monitor, which will have plenty of time to safely shutdown the system if the fan fails with the heat sink attached.

While I found the article (and video) interesting, it does not sway me from using AMD for my next upgrade as long as the price/performance is greater then Intel.

<font color=blue>This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.</font color=blue>
September 19, 2001 1:46:25 PM

How many of those 4 are one time posters, coughtrollpostscough.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
September 19, 2001 2:16:25 PM

Personally, I wouldn't mind paying extra $10-20 for thermal protection, and I'm sure there are lots of people that would agree with me on this subject. For people that have just started building their own computers, thermal protection would be an invaluable asset.

Another area where thermal protection would help greatly is in business and server areas dealing with mission critical data. It never hurts to have extra protection in these cases. Servers use raid or other means of back-up systems to increase their data protection. It could be enhanced by CPU's thermal protection feature, decreasing the likelyhood of the system failing.

I've been using AMD processors since the days of K6, and I've been very happy. However, that doesn't mean AMD processors are perfect. Adding useful features such as thermal protection may increase the cost a bit, but to many people, it's worth the cost.
September 19, 2001 2:22:23 PM

I agree, I would gladly pay 10 bucks more ofr an amd cpu which had the same themral protection as a p4, but since my only other alternative is to pay 460 more for an equavelent P4 for thermal protection I will be sticking with amd as long as the price/performance divided by risk is with them.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
September 19, 2001 2:23:22 PM

Lakedude... the AMD heat issue has been well known since the beginning. Every time AMD released a processor that stomped an Intel equivalent, every single Intel troll would run to the one weakness of the Athlon - thermal protection.

They would say something like - "Well yeah... I paid 3 times as much as you did, my performance is 30% worse, and if I wanna upgrade my memory I have to upgrade more than one module, but at least my cpu is running a few degrees cooler! Ah hah hah!"

This is a "duh" article. Nobody is getting their eyes opened by this, and nobody would expect anything different from the outcome. P4 has thermal protection against catastrophic heatsink failure, the Athlon does not. This is more like an exasperation article from Dr. Pabst - he feels maybe an article like this will encourage AMD to work faster and harder on thermal protection. Do I agree that AMD needs to work on thermal protection? Yes... but that doesn't mean their one weakness counteracts all their strengths. I've built 7 Athlon systems for other people, and I have a Duron and a Tbird sitting here. The heatsinks have ranged from the retail POS that ships with the processors, to an old OCZ Monster II heatsink to a beautiful Swiftech. I have yet to chip or crack a core, and none of these systems have had heat problems.... even the overclocked ones. The guy who introduced me to AMD 9 or 10 months also builds computers for his friends/family - all AMD, and none have had heat problems. People I know at the LAN's I attend are fairly split between AMD and Intel, but all the AMD people I know don't have heat problems. I know only one person who has fried a tbird, and that was because he used some funky heatsink retension method that caused the heatsink not to lie perfectly flat on the processor. Fortunately he got it replaced, as it was under warranty, but burning the tbird was his own stupidity.

As far as a heatsink falling off... the only time I've EVER heard of a heatsink coming off was when one of my gaming clan buddies purchased a new 1ghz PIII system from some company. It was shipped to him by UPS, and lo and behold, the box was halfway shredded, and the computer within was filled with broken shards of silicon and transistors and whatnot. The Heatsink came off... and it took a large chunk of the motherboard with it - at which point it rolled around in the computer like a metal chunk of component death.

But rest assured... the moment my heatsink falls off and my processor dies, I will run screaming to this forum to tell you all about it.

"Laziness is a talent to be cultivated like any other" - Walter Slovotsky
September 19, 2001 3:57:04 PM

Lakedude, don't even waste your time with these AMD puppies, all they do, day in and day out is monitor their cpu temps, shut down-cool off, scratch their heads and chase their tails.

when evening comes and it's cool enough, they'll either play with the only AMD approved games like UT or Serious Sam.

most of these AMD Bitches are from Cananda(not dissing CND or Canadians) and winter is coming up, so go figure.

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"
September 19, 2001 4:05:23 PM

Why do you suddenly have something against UT and Serious Sam?
Name one game I can't play on my Tbird system.

<font color=green>In memory of all the Americans that died 9/11/01
Rest in peace</font color=green>
September 19, 2001 7:35:17 PM

Dude, that article had no information that wasn't very well known.

If you want to spend $100's more for a comparable P4, then go ahead if thermal protection is that important to you.

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>
September 19, 2001 8:58:42 PM

[-peep-]! LOL

When I burned my CPU did I take off my heatsink? LOL!!!!! I WASNT EVEN USING AIR COOLING YOU DUMBASS.

--
It's Princess Leia, the yodel of my life. Give me my sweater back or I'll play the guitar.
September 19, 2001 8:59:58 PM

Funny, I haven't looked at my CPU temp for about 2 months.

--
It's Princess Leia, the yodel of my life. Give me my sweater back or I'll play the guitar.
September 19, 2001 9:33:41 PM

i have and athlon processor it really doesn't matter if it has built in heat protection cause alot of motherboards now have a feature to shutdown if temps get to high
September 19, 2001 10:08:05 PM

GRIZ

Let me see... You burned up your CPU and then you were dumb enough to post the fact that you are a CPU roaster to the world... and I'm a "DUMBASS"??? It does not matter how you fried it, only that you DID fry it.

Let me tell you butt holes a story. My friend Robin asked me to go shopping for a new computer. She wanted one with a CD-RW and lots of colors. The only other thing she cared about was price. She has no idea what AMD or Intel even are. Well guess what, at my urging she bought a computer with an AMD CPU. You can be sure that we checked the HS fan for proper operation. I ain't got nothin against AMD and never have. What is you guys problem with the truth?

BTW the poster that burned up his CPU was not a one post wonder but one of our all time record holding uber-posters who for some unknown reason commands a lot of respect around here. I'll be damned if I can figure out why.
September 19, 2001 10:27:07 PM

>Funny,I haven't looked at my CPU temp for about 2 months.

well, being a moron twice over, maybe you should look at your temps.

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"
September 19, 2001 11:10:50 PM

Meltdown

"being a moron twice over"

Has that cock smoker burned up 2 CPUs?
September 19, 2001 11:37:28 PM

I'm from Canada Meltdown U Butt Fu*K!
And guess what Your still a fu*kn Nerd!
September 19, 2001 11:40:32 PM

Makaveli

Hey you peter puffer watch your Fing language on my thread;-)

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by LAKEDUDE on 09/19/01 07:58 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
September 19, 2001 11:49:20 PM

Your thread? Watch your threads in our forum :) 

<font color=green>In memory of all the Americans that died 9/11/01
Rest in peace</font color=green>
September 19, 2001 11:51:04 PM

>Has that cock smoker burned up 2 CPUs?

LOL! yes he's burnt two within a month and went out and bought a duron, what a loser!

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"
September 19, 2001 11:58:03 PM

>I'm from Canada Meltdown U Butt Fu*k!
>And guess what Your still a fu*kn Nerd!

what has Canada done for the USA, lately? besides letting the terrorist in, you c*cksucker! LOL!

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"
September 20, 2001 12:09:19 AM

Those f-ing AMD f*#ks have gotten me peeped for the first time ever since 11-11-00.

Lo Wang says:

"Burn baby burn frames a gettin hire"

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by lakedude on 09/20/01 04:11 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
September 20, 2001 12:10:52 AM

I live in Louisiana. Baton Rouge, to be exact. I have no heat problems. I own an AMD.

Shut your holes, you Intel trolls, or go inhale a cock.
September 20, 2001 12:28:58 AM

Lay off Canada A$$HOLE
All of these so called AMD puppies come here to help others with problems... I am an AMD puppy comsidering my store only sells AMD and over 200-300 i have built not one has fried

Blame the newbies not the technology
September 20, 2001 12:56:01 AM

I personally think Tom's article is nice, but it falls short of what I'd expect. Mainly I think he just wanted to light a cherry bomb under AMD's ass...make them see thermal protection in a whole new light.

I personally think the article's a good thing, especially because not everyone knows about the thermal issues. I was talking to another DIY type at our local N. Texas LUG meeting last month, and he was surprised to find out from me that his home-built Athlon box could toast itself if the HSF failed (yes, he really was a DIY type). He got very interested when I told him about health monitoring and auto-shutdown...

A lot of AMD people are ticked because the whole test is troll fodder that falls short of true usefulness. Since Intel lapdogs can't claim their idol is a top performer anymore, they harp on this and make it seem like a bigger problem than it really is. To those of us who keep up, the article doesn't uncover anything we didn't already know--and to those of us who didn't know, it doesn't really tell you the whole story (like what you can do to protect your Athlon).

Kelledin

"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."
September 20, 2001 1:06:10 AM

Quote:

Let me see... You burned up your CPU and then you were dumb enough to post the fact that you are a CPU roaster to the world... and I'm a "DUMBASS"??? It does not matter how you fried it, only that you DID fry it.

Let me tell you butt holes a story. My friend Robin asked me to go shopping for a new computer. She wanted one with a CD-RW and lots of colors. The only other thing she cared about was price. She has no idea what AMD or Intel even are. Well guess what, at my urging she bought a computer with an AMD CPU. You can be sure that we checked the HS fan for proper operation. I ain't got nothin against AMD and never have. What is you guys problem with the truth?

BTW the poster that burned up his CPU was not a one post wonder but one of our all time record holding uber-posters who for some unknown reason commands a lot of respect around here. I'll be damned if I can figure out why.


Yes but you see, I don't give a damn if people know somebody shut off the water and my cpu fried. OH NO! People know, I guess I must commit suicide

--
It's Princess Leia, the yodel of my life. Give me my sweater back or I'll play the guitar.
September 20, 2001 1:07:28 AM

Quote:

well, being a moron twice over, maybe you should look at your temps.


Why? It runs at 36C full load. When I fried my cpu it was because the water got accidetnally shut off. Didn't matter if i looked at the temps, I wasn't even in the same house.

--
It's Princess Leia, the yodel of my life. Give me my sweater back or I'll play the guitar.
September 20, 2001 1:08:31 AM

Quote:

Meltdown

"being a moron twice over"

Has that cock smoker burned up 2 CPUs?


Makes you sound sooo intelligent.....

Just for fact, I've only burned up 1, yes <b>ONE</b> CPU. Which was an Athlon 1GHz, then I got a duron cause I Was short on cash. Now I don't have the duron anymore.

--
It's Princess Leia, the yodel of my life. Give me my sweater back or I'll play the guitar.
September 20, 2001 1:09:06 AM

Quote:

LOL! yes he's burnt two within a month and went out and bought a duron, what a loser!


Actually I fried one and bought another one within a month.... get your facts straight, moron.

--
It's Princess Leia, the yodel of my life. Give me my sweater back or I'll play the guitar.
September 20, 2001 1:10:44 AM

Hey, why don't you two gay partners get a room and get off the board? We don't want to hear your love talk about smoking cocks and such.

--
It's Princess Leia, the yodel of my life. Give me my sweater back or I'll play the guitar.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
September 20, 2001 1:34:02 AM

Man...you guys are taking this way to seriously! We all know that AMD outperforms Intel right now, but obviously Intel has the edge if your heatsink falls off suddenly due to a change in gravity! 8-) On a serious note...it does bother me that a sight that is supposed to give unbiased opinion keeps posting ads for the product they keep hawking so much. It might mean nothing, but appearance is everything and I am surprised that Tom hasn't seen the conflict or doesn't care.
September 20, 2001 1:54:53 AM

No [-peep-], the article was good. Now i know how important thermal protection is. I'm still getting an athlon for my next cpu purely because i can't afford a P4 at this time. A lot of people don't know how important this issue is. AMD guys who are whining, shut up. Intel guys who are gloating, wipe that smirk off of your face. We all know the drill, positives for both, drawbacks for both. Who gives a shiet, just buy want you want with the information you have. The more information the better. Any person with half a brain cell will be able to dicsern that a heat sink falling off during general operation is unlikely to happen. But that's not the fact of the matter. The fact of the matter is thermal protection, of which AMD offer none (drawback). But they do offer fast processors at cheap prices (positive). You see where i'm going with this?? Probably not.
September 20, 2001 2:10:30 AM

gritdude

I have been reading THG for about 5 years and have never found him to be biased when it comes to CPUs. For years Intel was way ahead and Tom told it like it was. More recently (like since this version of the community started) AMD has been the #1 CPU company and Tom has again told it like it is. I'm guessing this page needs ads to keep going and couldn't afford to get rid of ads that featured reviewed hardware. Since Tom is so honest I'm betting he would be offended be any hint of a conflict of intrest. Lots of times Tom will give poor reviews to hardware advertized on THG. It is only by chance that ads for favorably reviewed hardware are displayed lately.

To bad all the relitive newbies around here don't even know that AMD sucked in the old days. Now Intel is posed to take the lead again the AMD heads are shocked that Tom could ever put their CPU in a bad light. Grow up AMD babies. You had your time and if AMD gets their stuff together you may again but for now you are on the way out.
September 20, 2001 2:17:22 AM

Good points!

I'll even agree that once a computer is set up and running that it is highly unlikely that a HS is going to fall off. The problem is with the mail order ones that get sent UPS and get banged around in shipping. Lack of heat protection shoud not stop someone from buying AMD. If you do buy mail order just check the HS before you plug it in, even if you buy Intel.
September 20, 2001 3:10:04 AM

Mail-Order computer? Oh my god....

And I thought buying from a store was bad, but buying a COMPLETE system through the mail?

Insanity.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
September 20, 2001 3:25:21 AM

Good response. I agree with you that THG has seemed to be unbiased in the past. I am not accusing anyone, I am just pointing out the way it looks to some. As I stated, appearance is everything. If it looks like you have done something people will believe it. All the talk I have been seeing across the net about this isn't there just because of sour people who are biased themselves. It just seems that the appearance of a conflict of interest is just adding fuel to the fire and giving creedence to a false accusation. Especially with what seems to be a fairly useless test to most people.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
September 20, 2001 5:17:31 AM

jlbigguy, I have MBM5 installed and I was wondering what programs you link MBM5 to so it will shut down the machine in the event of a HSF failure? Where can I download them?

Thanks in advance.
September 20, 2001 4:39:27 PM

Quote:
for the first time ever since 11-11-01.


You a time traveller or something?

<font color=green>In memory of all the Americans that died 9/11/01
Rest in peace</font color=green>
September 20, 2001 6:56:16 PM

Killian,

I use SHUTDOWN NOW!, and you can get it from

<A HREF="http://www.dworld.de/winsoft.htm" target="_new">http://www.dworld.de/winsoft.htm&lt;/A>

It will shut the system down almost instantly when a threshold is exceeded in MBM5. MBM5 is designed to integrate directly with SHUTDOWN NOW!

I have my MBM5 temperature threshold set at 55 degrees celcius. Under heavy load, my TBird never exceeds 50c. Should the fan fail, there is plenty of time to shut my system down. I have tried this, and it works.


<font color=blue>This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.</font color=blue>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
September 20, 2001 7:30:59 PM

I agree, questionable test = questionable bias

I think Dr. Tom should run additional test (fan failure on cold/ hot systems and HS failure on cold/hot systems) to see how good/bad the thermal protection is on these different CPU's. Also, if this is supposed to be a scientific test, these test should be repeated at least 3 times otherwise you don't know if you got a good/bad example of the chip. I realise this is expensive; but if you are going to do an article like this, the test should be done correctly to minimize error.

Please let me know if anyone else agrees with me, since the last time I posted something like this nobody commented.
September 20, 2001 8:14:06 PM

OOPS!

My car is pretty fast but not fast enough to warp time. Thanks for der airer pointin outin.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
September 20, 2001 9:45:52 PM

If you open MBM5 to settings> temperatures, scroll down then click on the sentence "When alarm goes off start SHDN"(not the check box) it should take you to a download site.

<font color=orange>Beam</font color=orange><font color=red> me</font color=red><font color=green> up</font color=green><font color=blue> Scotty</font color=blue> :wink:
September 20, 2001 10:12:14 PM

Dude I have 2 systems.

The first one is all hand built with each part hand picked by yours truly. I love it. It is easy to upgrade, overclockable, and rock solid.

The second I bought (gasp) mail order at a time when only large OEM had product so a handbuilt at that time would have been impossable. It has advantages too. It was cheaper, I have a single point of contact in case of trouble, and the integrated case design kicks major a$$.

There are drawbacks to handbuilding. If you are ordering parts from all over it is likely that some will show up much later then others. You will pay S&H on each item. If you have problems you have several different companies to deal with. If you screw up you ain't got no one to blame but yourself.

Drawbacks to mail order include: You can't overclock(on mine anyway), upgrades are tougher and may require going back to the OEM, you can't hand pick every part and may need to buy parts you don't need or want only to replace them later.

I do not have any shame in buying mail order. At the time it was a good choice.
September 20, 2001 10:15:10 PM

Is that the one that the heatsink came off of?

Just out of curiousity, what socket, HSF and OEM was it?

<font color=green>In memory of all the Americans that died 9/11/01
Rest in peace</font color=green>
!