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P4 no longer such a bad deal?

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September 22, 2001 6:10:25 AM

The Socket 478 P4 1.5GHz is now going for $130. I beleive it can be overclocked to 2GHz by raising the FSB to 133 (using the PC600 setting with PC800 memory on an Abit TH7-II) While still a little slower than the 1.4GHz T-Bird overclocked to 1600, for those who really want one it's not that high a price!


Back to you Tom...

More about : longer bad deal

September 22, 2001 6:50:16 AM

I am waiting for the Northwood processor and some motherboards that work with PC1066 RDRAM. Most current PC800 RDRAM will run fine at PC1066 speeds. We just need decent motherboards to begin our overclocking endeavors.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
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September 22, 2001 7:45:15 AM

If you set a motherboard to PC600 and overclock it to 133FSB, it runs at PC800 speed. If you set it for PC800 and overclock it to 133FSB, you get PC1066 speed. So you can actually use the PC1066 for overclocking existing boards. And the Abit TH7-II allows overclocking in this manner. In fact, if what you say is true, the PC1066 should also overclock well, possibly enabling 150MHz bus speeds. On current motherboards.

Back to you Tom...
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September 22, 2001 7:46:50 AM

Oh, sorry, you probably already thought of that. The student teaching the professor so to speak, since I'm not that much into RDRAM and you are.

Back to you Tom...
September 22, 2001 8:02:23 AM

Well, currently the limiting factor for RDRAM overclocking is actually on the motherboard itself. The clock generators on most i850 chipset motherboards were of low quality. When you <A HREF="http://www.aceshardware.com/Spades/read.php?article_id=..." target="_new">replace these clock generators</A> you enable clocking much higher than the normal 400MHz. Once these motherboards of higher quality are released to the general public we will not have to use the PC600 settings when overclocking the processor. We will be able to use the PC800 settings and achieve PC1066 performance. Increasing memory and CPU clockspeed at the same time leads to some significant performance increases. I remember doing similar things with the old Celeron 300-A processors. Talk about a bargain...

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
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September 22, 2001 8:11:58 AM

Yes, I already read about this.

Back to you Tom...
September 22, 2001 12:53:46 PM

Hmmmmmm, interesting. I was holding out on rebuilding my second computer (after selling mobo, cpu and memory to fix another persons computer). Now this is another option I may tour. It would be nice having an AMD system and an Intel system to play around with. Pit one against the other etc.. Now which one will get the Radeon 8500???

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 09/22/01 07:13 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
September 22, 2001 1:32:05 PM

HI,

well, i hope that is true. btw, if I oc a pentium, do i need a descent HSF? or just any hsf will do?

Thx

Oct_7

[] [_] [-
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September 22, 2001 8:58:17 PM

You'll need an incredibly good cooler, as 2GHz is beyond so far beyond heat spec for the 1.5GHz that it would be running in limp mode all the time. But hey, you could always wait for Swiftec to introduce their S478 cooler.

Back to you Tom...
September 22, 2001 9:09:34 PM

Get a Northwood (0.13 micron) when it comes out. I'm planning on overclocking one from 2GHz up to 2.67GHz. With sufficient cooling and voltage tweaks we shouldn't have much of a problem.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
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September 22, 2001 9:32:26 PM

Too expensive for me.

Back to you Tom...
September 22, 2001 9:44:42 PM

It is not out yet. The release price has not yet been publicly stated. ;)  Since there is already a 2GHz processor out on the market, marketing dictates you cannot release the Northwood at a much higher price. Most people will see it as just a 2GHz processor, therefore it will closely shadow the price of the other 2GHz processor. Since the 2.2GHz chip is probably being released at the same time as the 2GHz Northwood... the 2GHz Northwood will be included in any price cuts, to keep it near the price of the 2GHz Williamette.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
September 22, 2001 9:51:09 PM

screw radoen 8500... think 8500DV! *drools and thinks about s-video, VIVO, tv tunor, firewire ports, remote control with it* *pisses his pants* dang i really should use the bathroom before thinking about this stuff lol!!! ... when is my video card out! the radeon 8500DV!!!!??? lol

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
September 22, 2001 10:19:26 PM

What exactly are those extra 55 pins for. I suppose that in the case of Northwood with doubled L2 cache they could serve as extra address and data lines. Are they also more Vss, Vdd lines as well?
September 22, 2001 10:22:27 PM

The microPGA 478 pin package adds extra power and ground pins for increased stability and reliability above 2 GHz. This is the functionality of those extra 55 pins.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
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September 22, 2001 10:25:29 PM

I'm not sure why they thought they needed to change sockets on the P4.

Back to you Tom...
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September 22, 2001 10:29:26 PM

I can go $200 on a CPU. But who knows, AMD might have something new for the desktop by then. I'm cosidering them as well since SiS has improved their product and ALi introduced new ones, and nVidia still looks promissing. So it all depends on what's available at the time I upgrade.

Back to you Tom...
September 23, 2001 12:46:09 AM

so u gonna get a 670 MHZ overclock with a 2 GHZ .13 P4?

a .13 ATHLON (T-Bred) at 2.1 or so should beat u in a majority of benchmarks
September 23, 2001 12:48:03 AM

AMD owns the dual performance market right now... dual p4's is a waste? can the P4 even run dual... i thought INTEL disabled them for SMP... only p4 xeons can run dual
September 24, 2001 6:41:31 AM

"a .13 ATHLON (T-Bred) at 2.1 or so should beat u in a majority of benchmarks"

If you mean an Athlon PR2100, then you are definately wrong. If you mean an Athlon 2.1GHz, I would estimate based on current benchmarks that you will still be wrong. We will have to wait a year or so until AMD manages to drive its clockspeed up that high. By that time I will likely have a better machine anyway.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
September 24, 2001 7:12:38 AM

Raystonn, the northwood improvements havent even been listed with any certainty, when benchmarks are released we will see which chip is faster, and even then the athlon will STILL kick the sh!t out of the pentium on price/performance. Unless intel plans to have a price war on an epic scale.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
September 24, 2001 7:24:11 AM

"when benchmarks are released we will see which chip is faster"

Yes, we will. Unfortunately, I cannot release my benchmarks.


"the athlon will STILL kick the sh!t out of the pentium on price/performance."

So we must wait for the release to check performance, but not price? How do you compute a price/performance ratio without knowing either one of its components: price or performance. This is not very logical.

We could sit here and argue all day because I work for Intel and you work for AMD. I tend to refrain from making baseless comments about future AMD chips to avoid these pointless wars. They help noone.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
September 24, 2001 8:51:16 AM

My comments are based on the benchmarks of current athlon mps vs 1.7ghz p4 XEON's. !You! made the baseless claim that northwood xeons would beat the 1.53ghz athlon dualie, since you cannot provide evidence, your claim that I was wrong was in fact the baseless one.(and I fully understand and accept the motives behind you not being able to post benchmarks, I have decided not to post pictures of device manufacture defects I have which are cool and prove to AMDmeltdumbass I actually work where I claim, based on nda's as well.)

I find it hard to believe that the northwood core improvements will be enough to make up for the marked whoopage the dual athlons show current dual p4 xenons, but like I said we have no benchmarks to confirm or deny this.

As for my claim to the athlonmp having better price/performance than intels future offerings, if you follow the history of the chips pricing you will find amd ALWAYS goes out of its way to keep its prices rock bottom, and I am sure these northwood xenons will NOT be cheap, while athlonMP chips are VERY cheap.


~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
September 24, 2001 6:25:16 PM

Cut it out you guys! This thread was good reading until the AMD v Intel thing kicked off.

It is time we had some discussion about the P4. We gave the willamette core a tough time as it pretty much deserved it. However, with northwood arriving, the price cuts from Intel and RDRAM prices coming down the P4 is certainly worth taking a good long look at.

I personally am waiting for T-bred but I also want to see the Northwood benchmarks and hear what Raystonn has to say once the NDA constraints comes off.

<font color=blue> The Revolution starts here... as soon as I finish my coffee </font color=blue> :eek: 
September 24, 2001 7:00:33 PM

"!You! made the baseless claim that northwood xeons would beat the 1.53ghz athlon dualie"

One good baseless claim deserves another, right? I was simply responding to your claim of the reverse. We can go back and forth on this one forever.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
September 24, 2001 7:40:28 PM

ray-

How do you think via's lawsuit is going to effect intel's production of the p4? Is it just going to get settled by Intel dropping a chunk of change in via's lap or is it just going to be totall unpredictable?

Nice <b><font color=green>Lizards</b></font color=green> <b>crunch</b> Trolls cookies....... :smile: Yummy!! :smile:
September 24, 2001 7:53:19 PM

Officially we do not comment on pending litigation. Unofficially, VIA's lawsuit is a joke. They are using it to stall an injunction against their new chipset.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
September 25, 2001 5:58:32 AM

Ray, my claim has some backup, IE the benchmarks of dual 1.2mp's beating 1.7 xeons. If you add 300mhz to both sides the MP's will still win the benchmark, that claim is not baseless it is based in fact.
YOU added to the mix the fact that the 2ghz xeons will be northwoods, which have no benchmarks to show their performance benifit, and you cannot show any, therefore YOUR claim is baseless.

That is all I am saying.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
September 25, 2001 3:20:13 PM

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/21856.html

Looks like they ARE releasing an older core 2ghz p4 xeon, in which case by simple math we can show that the dual 1.53ghz athlonmp's would STOMP them. So no one needs to make any baseless claims ;-).



~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
September 25, 2001 5:03:42 PM

that really bugs you doesn't it.

Nice <b><font color=green>Lizards</b></font color=green> <b>crunch</b> Trolls cookies....... :smile: Yummy!! :smile:
September 25, 2001 5:29:21 PM

Almost as much as it bugs you to see a thread where you don't have the most recent post.

<font color=green>In memory of all the Americans that died 9/11/01
Rest in peace</font color=green>
September 25, 2001 5:49:51 PM

That's pretty bad.

Nice <b><font color=green>Lizards</b></font color=green> <b>crunch</b> Trolls cookies....... :smile: Yummy!! :smile:
September 25, 2001 6:11:41 PM

Your claim involved dual 1.2mp's versus 2GHz Xeons, not 1.7GHz Xeons.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
September 26, 2001 9:46:05 AM

My claim was as follow.

Dual 1.2ghz Athlon MP's STOMP Dual p4 1.7ghz xeons, THEREFORE, dual 1.53ghz MP's should ALSO STOMP dual 2ghz xeons (non northwood).

Nothing baseless about that claim, simple math.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
September 26, 2001 2:29:46 PM

Give it up already, please.

Nice <b><font color=green>Lizards</b></font color=green> <b>crunch</b> Trolls cookies....... :smile: Yummy!! :smile:
September 26, 2001 2:41:02 PM

I have to agree with Matisaro to a point. In theory Athlon should win because of its superior scaling.
1.2 beat 1.7 500mhz step
1.53 versus 2.00 470mhz step
Unless the P4 uses the .13 proc
But we will never know for sure until realworld benchmarks are released

Blame the newbies not the technology
September 26, 2001 3:22:56 PM

Quote:
But we will never know for sure until realworld benchmarks are released

correct, and that is why I said drop it already.

Nice <b><font color=green>Lizards</b></font color=green> <b>crunch</b> Trolls cookies....... :smile: Yummy!! :smile:
September 27, 2001 2:28:29 AM

I dont like it when someone says I am making stuff up, or making unfounded claims, so I restated my claim. If rayston wishes to continue the debate then I will continue to defend my position, what is so wrong with that. I am not decending into troll level, I am not insulting, it is a good natured debate. Thats what a forum is for!

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
September 27, 2001 5:31:56 PM

No it's not!!
It's so you can...umm...er...get cool titles?

<font color=green>I post so you don't have to!
9/11 - RIP</font color=green>
September 28, 2001 8:59:48 AM

But I like the cool titles!@

I try to chime in and help most times, but when people call me a liar etc I will defend myself.



~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
September 28, 2001 3:59:25 PM

Titles are the only reason I'm here. Wait, no...I'm here because I want to help people. Actually, I thought it was because I'm bored at work?
I forget

<font color=green>I post so you don't have to!
9/11 - RIP</font color=green>
!