The reason to buy p4!

[bentmelchior]

I´ve been considering building a t-bird rig for some time now.These considerations belong to the past, reason?
P4 cpu prices have dropped a fair amount. Finally DDR boards have been turning up.ex Shuttle av-40,
Acorp 4vpx266,chaintech 7VJD2(both sdr/ddr) ,azza
p4x2-av. Futhermore Aopen,ecs and tyan are working on similar boards.
BYe bye t-bird , hello p4 2.0ghz with 512mb pc2100......

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by bentmelchior on 09/23/01 08:07 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[AMD_Man]

RDRAM is no longer the issue with the Pentium 4. Here in Canada, RDRAM is down in price near DDR levels. The problem is the actual cost of the P4 chip itself. I would never pay that much for a CPU, ever! With a huge price difference between the two processors (1.4GHz Athlon vs. 2GHz P4), you could setup a RAID and have money to spare to ease the cost of the AIW Radeon 8500DV. If you didn't know, the AIW Radeon 8500DV will be the ultmate TV-TUNER/Analog Video Editing, Digital Video Editing/2D Graphics/3D graphics soultion.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[bentmelchior]

Don´t get me wrong, I´m well aware of the fact that the 2.0ghz p4 and the t-bird 1.4ghz aren´t in the same price-class. But the price difference between an 1.7ghz p4 and 1.4t-bird is only 100$( danish prices ) You also have to realize that the t-bird 1.4hgz represents old technology, while the p4 is the processor of the future...( I only say this because I know that the athlon4 is coming out in the near future)

 

[Matisaro]

You are wrong,

A: the tbird is faster than the p4 1.7 ESPECIALLY on a good board like sis or kt266a. How can you justify paying 100 more for a slower processor?
B: in order to scale the p4 up to beat the athlon(THE CURRENT P4, NOT NORTHWOOD ETC) you have to increase its price dramatically, 460 bucks to finaly actually outperform the tbird(by like 8% p42ghz vs 1.4tbird). With that money an amd system can have ANY NUMBER of upgrades to negate and reverse this slight lead.

As for processor of the future, that is not known, we dont know if the p4 archetecture will be successful, or if amd will have a better competing product. If you want to waste your money on a p4 (THE CURRENT P4 NOT NORTHWOOD A CHIP OF WHICH I MAKE NO CLAIMS DUE TO LACK OF BENCHMARK/PRICING INFO) then by all means go ahead. It is your dollar to burn.


~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

 

[bentmelchior]

Let me start by saying I´m by no means fan of any of the companies( unlike matisaro, yes I have read a lot of your articles )It just seems like intel is pumping more power into the market, while amd is waiting for some reason..Then there is the heat issue I know that people don´t remove their heatsinks, but then again it doesn´t look like AMD is taking there job serious.

 

[Matisaro]

I am a fan of what works best at the time, AMD simply works best for the right price FOR ME, at this time. Intels processor has no where to go but up(especially northwood) but buying an old 1.7ghz p4 is still a STUPID move IMO. If you wanna debate athlon 1.4 vs p4 2ghz the price argument comes into play, not prive/performance, but total cost of a system/performance. NO P4 2ghz system with a set spending limit will out perform a 1.4ghz tbird with the same budget, the 8% performance gain of the p4 is MORE than outmatched by the 460 bucks the tbird has to make up for it. If you have infinate funds then fine, by a current p4, thats fine. As for northwood and hammer etc, the future is undetermined , we dont know what kind of performance boost the northwood will have, nor do we know what amd has up its sleeves, we will have to wait and see.

PS: im glad you read my "articles"? If so you would see I try not to be a company loyalist and backup my claims when I can. I would also like to note that while currently I am an AMD employee(50/50 fujitsu AMD to be precise) this was recent and does not affect my oppinions one way or the other.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

 

[zengeos]

Now I on the other hand, definitely am leaning more towards AMD as a company as wel as their products. I have been very disappointed in the way Intel has tried to maintain their market share...both on the surface and the rumors which I won't mention here as they are only rumors.

Add to this their VERY poorly performing P4 CPU when compared to Athlon and I simply cannot in good conscience OR good sense recommend an Intel CPU.

This is all on top of the prices Intel charges for their products compared to AMD.

Mark-

When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!

 

[Matisaro]

I also agree, but I will choose the best cpu, intel or amd, however the current p4 is [-peep-], period.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

 

[bentmelchior]

To Matisario
I´m sorry if I offended you in any way.When I said I read your articles it wasn´t meant in bad way. I just somtimes find it hard to see your objectivity..(don´t understand this the wrong way either)

 

[Grizely1]

The P4 is just as old as the Athlon core. Just the Athlon core was released a lot earlier. They were working on the P4 core when the P2 came out.

--
It's Princess Leia, the yodel of my life. Give me my sweater back or I'll play the guitar.

 

[Guest]

The Athlon 1400 ddr is much faster than P4 1700 on ddr. ddr-boards are 10% slower than Rambus-boards for the P4.

PS Du er vel ikke i familie med ham der Arne?

 

[Matisaro]

I try to maintain objectivity, I do however run and like the athlon right now, it could change tomorow is northwood is any good. I was not offended by your comments, dont worry about it.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

 

[lhgpoobaa]

indeed. northwood + DDR looks like a nice solution, provided they improve the FPU capabilities of the p4.

Religious wars are 2 groups of people fighting over who has the best imaginary friend.

 

[Matisaro]

Northwood with pc1066 rambus may be good if crashmans specs are to be believed, it is ALL about price/performance of the ENTIRE system for me, so untill intel closes that gap I will remain an AMD buyer. See the sig, and live it!

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

 

[Crashman]

Still not sure if the 1.5GHz can be overclocked to 133FSB/2.0GHz yet. I definately wouldn't go for the VIA DDR P4 sollution, VIA is the reason I quite building AMD systems for myself! No, I haven't built myself a new system since SiS and ALi introduced their new chipsets.

Back to you Tom...

 

[Matisaro]

I try to base a system choice on stock speed, there is no guarentee with overclocking, I would never buy a chip if its max overclocking speed(theoretical) was one of the determining factors over the competition. (IE saying well a 1.5ghz p4 can maybe overclock to 2ghz and be faster than a 1.4ghz tbird for only 30 bucks more).

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

 

[Crashman]

Yes, and I never said it was a sure thing, I only questioned whether or not it was possible. I am too poor to take such a chance. And I won't be doing a major upgrade for at least a few months.

Back to you Tom...

 

[Crashman]

Oh, but for people looking for an easy upgrade for a Coppermine compatable system, overclocking a 700 to 933 IS darned near a sure thing, the success rate is nearly 100%. Just to let you know where I stand on overclocking recommendations.

Back to you Tom...

 

[Matisaro]

I follow you on the p3 overclock upgrade position, they are indeed fine chips. I will always point out that the cost of that fine chip is nearly enough to have a 1ghz athlon AND mobo .

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

 

[Crashman]

Yes, but I built mine to end the VIA nightmare I was having back in 2000.

Back to you Tom...

 

[Matisaro]

Via does suckfor stabilty if you have older/rare cards, you will get no argument from me. However, if you do not have many older incompatable devices(like you and other users may have) and you properly install the required drivers, the small chance you will have an issue is generally offset by the great performance you will get. Many via users never have any problems, but admittedly some do. VIA is not stable sometimes, but not many computers are truely super stable.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

 

[bentmelchior]

arne er min semitiske bror som altid har de rette svar....

 

[Solstice]

I have messed with numerous P4’s and have yet to get one that I can take to 133xWhatever, I have gotten a 1.7*128 but it wasn’t as stable as it should have been.
Also keep in mind I am just air cooling, Water or Pelt may yield different results.
P4’s tend to be happiest at 115 or 118. A 2.0ghz*122= 2.44Ghz

 

[Raystonn]

The Willamette and Willamette-N (socket 478) processors do not overclock as well as the Northwood due to the increased core size, the creation of more heat, and the increased voltage requirements. With special cooling we were able to run a Northwood at 3.5GHz. Standard air cooling would further reduce these speeds as would memory system constraints for a locked processor. Running PC1066 memory (all Samsung PC800 DRDRAM seems capable of PC1066 speeds so far) at 533MHz system bus speeds on locked processors released for a 400MHz system bus should not be much of a problem with proper cooling and tweaking. This could take a Northwood Pentium 4 2GHz to 2.667GHz or a 2.2GHz to 2.933GHz. This is some serious performance.

It sounds like your 1.7GHz Willamette was able to handle 2GHz fine though. This is a pretty good value.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =

 

[sakattack]

"while the p4 is the processor of the future...( I only say this because I know that the athlon4 is coming out in the near future)"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but buing a P4 m/b now is a dead end concerning upgrading (new P4 will need new m/bs), whereas A4 supposedly will work with the current m/bs, may only need new bios. If I am wrong please correct me.