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I would hate to be the one who..

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Got suckered into buying this.

http://www.theinquirer.net/26090108.htm

One gig of ram with a gf2 mx on a p4 2ghz, and dual 80 gig drives which probably are 5200 rpm lol.

I can think of 100 ways to redistribute that 2grand(how much is 1700 pounds in us dollars) to have a waay better system, ditch the dual 80 gigs and get triple 40 gigs for starters, and with the saved cash get a gf3 or radeon 8500.(not even going into the wasted cash in the cpu). I think the ram is sdram too....shame.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

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LOL, at least it didn't have a TNT2.
I guess the person selling it will be happy because he ripped someone off, and the person buying it will be happy because they’ll think they have the best machine ever.

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."

Reply to somerandomguy

ouch.

like having a ferrari.... mated to a volkswagen gearbox and training wheels.

Religious wars are 2 groups of people fighting over who has the best imaginary friend.

Reply to lhgpoobaa

1700 pounds is roughly 2500US$

Computers are, however, more expensive in Europe by about 20% I believe..

Mark-

When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!

Reply to zengeos

2500!!!!! what a shafting, anyone who buys that pc is officially a MORON, not even the power of the mighty xp can save that POS.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

Reply to Matisaro

LoL

besides....
Personally I only respect all power users who build there own PC's, not get the ready made solutionw hich u pay in excess of $600+ for a POS Integrated bottom line part everything POC.....

=)

-MeTaL RoCkEr
My Z28 can take your P4 off the line!

Reply to MeTaLrOcKeR

Sad to see intel is facilitating the RAPING of innocent non techie consumers with their empty megahertz.

Damn shame, ALMOST AS BAD, as people pricing similarly cripled athlon systems only 100 bucks less than their [-peep-] p4 systems in hopes of conning people who heard amd is a good value, I have seen p4 1.8ghz systems with 32 MEG TNTE AGP 4X GRAPHICS, selling for 1500 only to see a 1.2ghz tbird selling with the same crippled graphics for 1400, when the cpu/ram price difference is more than 200 bucks!

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

Reply to Matisaro

Very sad indeed......thats how they make money, to rip off the un-informed...... =*(
bastards can GO TO HELL.....lol j/k I was never ripepd off, i never baught a PC in my life.......I always baught the PARTS and assembled it myself....from 286 - now.... =)

if only those graphics cards were better....damn shame....

-MeTaL RoCkEr
My Z28 can take your P4 off the line!

Reply to MeTaLrOcKeR

At least they dont overclock their systems shadily like some stores used to do in the old days.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

Reply to Matisaro

Horrid days.......
Pentium MMX chips....
buy a 166MMX Intel and set Multiplier to 3.5 i believe and it hits 233MHz and is exactly the same as a 233 and no one knows.....

-MeTaL RoCkEr
My Z28 can take your P4 off the line!

Reply to MeTaLrOcKeR

A trend I have seen by computer makers is to put a fast(2Ghz) CPU in computer with an ultra cheap graphics card.

Dell is even worse I think I saw a dell with P4 2Ghz CPU, and Geforce 2 MX graphics and only 128MB of ram...
People must just see 2Ghz, and want to buy it.

-MIke

Edited by 1200mike on 09/27/01 08:21 AM.

Reply to Anonymous

Hey, despite my every effort to stop my friend from doing so, he got a similar system! Thought itwas top of the line, would kick my system (his- P4 1.3GHz, 128SDRAM, GF2 MX), vs mine (Athlon 1.2 GHz, Quadro DCC, 512 DDR). Heh, the benchmark score differences were rather....very far apart.

Your brain: PC
You brain on drugs: Mac

Reply to Flamethrower205

You think that is bad?

Here in Oz, there is one place selling P4 1.8 at $3,200 ($1,600 US) with a *TNT2M64* graphics card. I derived great pleasure from letting a salesman declare the wonders of this system for a full half hour before I very calmly told him the reason I was interested in it was because it was such a hilarious joke, told him exactly what I could do with the same amount of money, and left that store whistling

And, if you are interested, the store shut down 4 months later... coincidence? Hmm...

Reply to OzzieBloke

Quote :

Dell is even worse I think I saw a dell with P4 2Ghz CPU, and Geforce 2 MX graphics and only 128MB of ram...

Back page of this week's US News & World Reports. Saw it last night. Nice case, though.
Besides, since when does the i845 support SDRAM running at "133MHz", as the ad so proudly states? I'm almost tempted to buy it and then sue for false advertising when I prove that the SDRAM is running at 100MHz.

I post so you don't have to!
9/11 - RIP

Reply to FatBurger

"ALMOST AS BAD, as people pricing similarly cripled athlon systems"

How true. Neighbors of mine just bought a "state of the art" Athlon 1ghz machine, a Sony VAIO. What a piece of crap. Sure, it has a good looking tower case. But that's about it. I believe it uses the SIS 730 chipset, uses the SIS integrated video and sound, 128k ram (16k dedicated to integrated video) and has a 40gb drive. Takes about 2 minutes to boot, much of that waiting for the video to display the desktop. They need the machine for video editing. Good luck!

All this for only $1,000 (monitor not included). What could have been custom built for that much money? A 1.4ghz, 512k DDR ram, GForce3, 40gb RAID, and still have a hundred bucks left over.

This 1ghz Athlon performs like a 400mhz Celeron. Amazing how well you can cripple a computer if you really try.

This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.

Reply to jlbigguy

I live in the U.S.A. everything in the UK has crazy prices +VAT.

3 drives = 33.3% more heat.

"AMD/VIA!...you are still the weakest link, good bye!"

Reply to AmdMELTDOWN

Quote :

128k ram (16k dedicated to integrated video)

Please tell me you mean megabytes, not kilobytes

I post so you don't have to!
9/11 - RIP

Reply to FatBurger

>This 1ghz Athlon perform like a 400mhz Celeron.

LOL!, LOL! you buy a Athlon sys and get a Celeron sys, LOL! the question is which would fry the best?

"AMD/VIA!...you are still the weakest link, good bye!"

Reply to AmdMELTDOWN

Here in the U.K I am that salesman. Only I would have sold it to you, sold you an expensive warranty and let you have any thing in the store costing £20.00 for free, because you’re special!!!

Although it has a lot of good ideas, beer doesn't know anything about computers!!!

Reply to Tom_Smart

"since when does the i845 support SDRAM running at "133MHz", as the ad so proudly states? I'm almost tempted to buy it and then sue for false advertising when I prove that the SDRAM is running at 100MHz."

Perhaps the system has 133mhz SDRAM dimms in it. So, by saying it contains 133mhz DIMMS it doesn't necessarily mean the system has to run it at that speed...

Mark-

When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!

Reply to zengeos

No, it explicitly says (and I quote)

Quote :

128meg of SDRAM running at 133MHz

I can scan in the ad and post it for you, if you want?
It has a pretty nice looking case, I'll give them that

I post so you don't have to!
9/11 - RIP

Reply to FatBurger

It only takes a few clicks to find out what memory the 845 supports.

Quote :

System Memory Features

The D845WN has three DIMM sockets and supports the following memory features:

3.3 V (only) 168-pin SDRAM DIMMs with gold-plated contacts
Unbuffered single-sided or double-sided DIMMs
Maximum total system memory: 3 GB with 3 DIMMs (using 512 MB technology); minimum total system memory: 32 MB
133 MHz SDRAM DIMMs only
Serial Presence Detect (SPD)
Suspend to RAM support
ECC and non-ECC DIMMs
NOTE: If ECC functionality is required, all installed DIMM modules must be ECC compliant.

<A HREF="http://developer.intel.com/design/motherbd/wn/wn_mem.htm" target="_new">http://developer.intel.com/design/motherbd/wn/wn_mem.htm</A>

<A HREF="http://www.disconnect.net/underground/archives/frosted11.html" target="_new">They're Grrrrreat!</A>

Reply to zpyrd

So does the memory run asynchronously on an i845? Where's Raystonn?

I post so you don't have to!
9/11 - RIP

Reply to FatBurger

I do not really like the i845, and so have not looked much into it. However, I believe the FSB runs at 400MHz while the memory itself is used at 1/3 that clockspeed. Thus, the memory actually makes use of only 1 out of every 3 FSB clocks. The FSB is called quad-pumped because it gets 4 clocks per external clock (the external clock runs at 100MHz.) I would call the i845's memory interface tri-unpumped, as it runs at 1/3 the speed of the FSB.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =

Reply to Raystonn

Here I go showing my age again!

My first PC was a TRS-80 with 4k of RAM, 1k of video ram. Sometimes I am stuck in the K's.

I did mean Meg. Thanks!

This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.

Reply to jlbigguy

The point was that you can take any system and make it crawl, yet have the consumer pay a premium.

How about a 1.5mhz P4 with an 845 and SDRAM, with an ATI 16M Rage? Or a 1 ghz PIII with an SIS integrated video and sound chipset. They would crawl as well.

Crippling systems is not limited to any chip manufacturer.

This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.

Reply to jlbigguy

good comment there by raystonn... "tri-unpumped" LOL

that got me thinking... i was thinking about the BEST possible way you could completely cripple a high end PC.

heres what i came up with:

1. Pentium 4 2000Mhz.
i845 mobo
64mb pc133 sdram @ cas 3.
tnt2 m64 graphics
5400rpm ata 33/66 20gig HDD (do they still sell ata33?)
40x cd drive
8x burner (or lower... must NOT have any burnproof!)
sb vibra soundcard eeeeew
15" monitor that barely supports 1280x1024x60hz
56k modem
atx case with underpowered PSU and no fan slots.
winME

as for the AMD system
2. Athlon 1400 ('B' of course)
chaintek KT133 mobo, or Ali based DDR mobo.
64mb PC100 or PC1600 at Cas3
same as above for video, sound, monitor, drives etc

now THOSE are crapass systems!!!

Religious wars are 2 groups of people fighting over who has the best imaginary friend.

Reply to lhgpoobaa

Section One "Introduction for the 82845 memory controller hub" has basic explanation of the clock relationships of the front side bus, memory, accelerated graphics port and the input output controller hub.

<A HREF="http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/datashts/290725.htm?iid=PCG+devside&" target="_new">http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/datashts/290725.htm?iid=PCG+devside&</A>

Specific info can be read at: section 1.4.6 Intel MCH Clocking &
Table 5 Intel MCH Clock Ratio Table

The memory interface is 3:4 synchronous

<A HREF="http://www.disconnect.net/underground/archives/frosted11.html" target="_new">They're Grrrrreat!</A>

Reply to zpyrd

Meltdown drives dont get THAT hot, 3 drives = more performance, I have never had a heat issue and I run 3 drives, and wow I run a tbird which is supposed to melt me from 100 feet away with its massive heat output in your twisted world!

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

Reply to Matisaro

Also 4x 20 gig drives are cheaper than 2x 80 gig, and nearly twice as fast. In raid 0. 3x 40 gig is the sweet spot between performance and disk size and cost.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

Reply to Matisaro

I stand corrected then.

I post so you don't have to!
9/11 - RIP

Reply to FatBurger

excuse me, for a moment but I forgot about your low standards. I use scsi drives.

"AMD/VIA!...you are still the weakest link, good bye!"

Reply to AmdMELTDOWN

I would rather have 2x 40 gig ide drives in raid 0 than 1 18 gig cheetah any day, lol, let alone 3, not to mention they cost about the same. read my sig, live it learn it love it.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

Reply to Matisaro

Matisaro, anyone knows that SCSI drives (although a lot more expensive), offer much better performance than IDE. Especially when you're (for example) working with Pro Tools, like Meltdown.

I post so you don't have to!
9/11 - RIP

Reply to FatBurger

"well i can have 2X80 1 GIG drives.."
duh, think about expendabilety too..


*******
*K.I.S.S*
*(k)eep (I)t (S)imple (S)tupid*
*******

Reply to LoveGuRu

thats about standard uk price, everyone pays it... idiots... most computers are around a grand now $1450ish... and those are SH!T... the makers are making a killing, thats why i build my boxes

if in doubt blame microsoft...

Reply to killall

Burger, actually 2x ide drives outperform 1x scsi in raid 0, the tradeoff is the danger of raid 0(ie data loss.)

Storagereview.com has an excelltn guide to raid and rates many raid arrays, 2x ide drives almost ALWAYS beat a single scsi drive, and have more storage and cost the same, including raid card price!. 3x 20 gig drives will kick the crap out of scsi cost less and have more storage. Scsi is nice but price/performance kills it for me.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

Reply to Matisaro

You can get a SCSI drive with a 3ms average access time. EIDE drives are usually up around 9.5ms. You are forgetting about latency issues.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =

Reply to Raystonn

Yes I know this rayy, they take that into account at storage review where they show benchmarks to prove my statement, check it out of you dont believe me.

www.storagereview.com

2x ide drives almost ALWAYS beat single scsi drives in all of the benchmark apps they use. (iometer and some others) and 3x completely thrashes scsi, generally for the same price.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

Reply to Matisaro

I cannot seem to find any of these articles that compare a single SCSI drive to two EIDE drives using the built-in RAID 0 functionality of a motherboard. However, 2 EIDE drives would most likely provide more bandwidth, but also have higher latency.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =

Reply to Raystonn

Ahh you hit on the reason I didnt want to link to it myself, they have compare drives section, if you select a raid setup then write down(or copy the results) then compare 2 scsi drives the benchmark utilities are the same, the folks at storage review did not see fit to include a direct raid vs scsi compare tool.

heres a link to the general compare area.

http://www.storagereview.com/comparison.html

to compare you have to choose a 2x ide raid and compare it to whatever, it will give you the results, then compare a scsi drive to whatever, and compare the 2x ide results you have written(or open in another browser window) to the scsi results.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

Reply to Matisaro

Actually I just went there, and it appears the 500 dollar cheetah x15 is beating 2x ide raid setups and it takes 3x to best. This is a newer drive, so I stand corrected, 2x ide raid is not stomping on scsi, however 3x raid setups which would cost still less than the cheetah are doing quite nicely, also with the 3x setup you get many times the storage capacity of the scsi setup. (prices are not including scsi controler cards which can run upwards of 300 bucks.)

In summation I stand by my statement that ide raid is better than single scsi drives, but it is close, and the determination must come down to price/performance, in which IDE raid clearly is the winner.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

Reply to Matisaro

I cannot find any listing of a RAID setup using the built-in RAID 0 on today's newer motherboards. These are actually software RAID solutions, much slower than the hardware RAID solutions listed for comparison in the drop-down menu.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =

Reply to Raystonn

Okay, I did find one that seems to match up to what sounds like the builtin RAID 0 support on a motherboard: AMI MegaRAID IDE100, RAID 0, 2 Drives. In all numbers, the single Seagate Cheetah 18XL (18.4 GB Ultra160/m SCSI) hard drive is vastly superior, both in terms of bandwidth _and_ latency (response time.) I believe SCSI wins. Now add to that a SCSI RAID and it leaves the EIDE solution entirely in the dust.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =

Reply to Raystonn

Price vs Performance, also those are not the same reviews I read months ago when deciding on harddrives, the whole drive comparision cgi Is missing information, like which harddrives were used in the comparision, I am investigating.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

Reply to Matisaro

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