New Athlon Details?

How does the new chip answer the P4? Can anyone explain the speed differences?

...and when will it come out?

Also, there's something on the street about some giveaways, but what's the real deal?

rOscOe
70 answers Last reply
More about athlon details
  1. The new athlon will cost less and perform on par with the latest p4, northwood and whatever else comes out in the coming months will undoubtedly change this. The athlon is clocked slower but performs more work per clock. There are tons of benchmarks and reviews out there for you to make an informed decision as to which chip you want to invest in.

    ~Matisaro~
    "The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
    ~Tbird1.3@1.5~
  2. "The new athlon will ... perform on par with the latest p4, northwood and whatever else comes out in the coming months will undoubtedly change this"

    These are more baseless claims. To date there have been no reviews of the Pentium 4 Northwood, and no benchmarks have been publicly released. I do not recall seeing any reviews or benchmarks for the Athlon Palomino either. I must respectfully ask that you decline from assumptions and presumptions on future products and present only the facts.

    -Raystonn


    = The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
  3. Indeed, the Northwood's 512KB may just be what the doctor ordered. The P4 needs bandwidth and Intel is giving it it more High-Bandwidth L2 cache!

    AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
  4. OK ill take this one step by step.

    "The new athlon WILL PERFORM ON PAR WITH THE LATEST P4,"

    THIS IS A SINGLE LINE, THE 2GHZ IS THE LATEST P4, THE NEW ATHLONXP 1.53 WILL KICK THE CRAP OUT OF IT, I however decided to be evenhanded and said perform on par. Do you deny this fact ray, the athlon 1.4ghz loses benchmarks by 7-10% when compared to the p4 2ghz. The athlonxp will give 10% performance enhancement clock for clock, this means that a 1.4ghz (let alone a 1.53ghz)athlon xp will equal a p4@2ghz. DO YOU DENY THIS RAY.

    "northwood and whatever else comes out in the coming months will undoubtedly change this"

    This line was giving the the intel camp the nod for the fact the northwood should increase performance and keep AMD on its toes while acknoledging the fact that AMD is also creating new technologies which will keep the battle raging. DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT COMMENT RAY?

    There are benchmarks for the palomino, they are called athlon mp benchmarks, the mp is the palomino, and they have been tested, and give 10% clock per clock. Those benchmarks are widely available.

    NONE of my claims were baseless. I must respectully ask you quit riding my ass when I post with your assumptions. I have not made a single claim which I can not back up, and those claims which are not set in stone or are my oppinions are ALWAYS LED INTO WITH "PROBABLY, MOST LIKELY" etc.

    ~Matisaro~
    "The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
    ~Tbird1.3@1.5~
  5. PS: I was not yelling, I was emphasizing.

    ~Matisaro~
    "The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
    ~Tbird1.3@1.5~
  6. Perhaps you should revisit your grammar. You said: "The new athlon will ... perform on par with the latest p4, northwood and whatever else comes out in the coming months will undoubtedly change this." This sentence states that the new athlon will perform on par with the latest p4, the northwood. It also says that whatever else comes out in the coming months will undoubtedly change this. Now then, I do not enjoy nitpicking, but when incorrect grammar leads others to a false conclusion on what is being said, it can be very bad. If you meant what you now say it means, then replace the comma in your sentence with a period. It completely changes the whole meaning.

    -Raystonn


    = The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
  7. http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1469&p=9

    here, the second paragraph
    We will save our benchmarks on the Athlon 4 until the official workstation processor release but if you're interested, AMD is providing benchmarks on the processor that indicate a 2 - 15% increase in performance over an identically clocked Thunderbird. Some interesting numbers to quote from AMD include a 6% advantage under Quake III Arena, a 5% increase under Business Winstone 2001 and a 10% advantage under SYSMark 2000. The majority of this performance increase does come from the data prefetch of the Athlon 4."

    There are other sites I will look later.


    ~Matisaro~
    "The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
    ~Tbird1.3@1.5~
  8. Listen don't believe the HYPE !

    Wake up man, we will only see a real world difference of 5% meanwhile Northwood is going to whoop ass ! 512k Cache against 256K !!

    2.2GHz against 1.53 GHz ?!? over 600Mhz difference will leave Athlon XP in the gutter.

    <font color=purple> **I eat confusion and spit it out slow**</font color=purple>
  9. AHH I see, however I must point out.

    The new athlon will cost less and perform on par with the latest p4, northwood and whatever else comes out in the coming months will undoubtedly change this.

    ^The actual sentence.

    The new athlon will cost less and perform on par with the latest p4, northwood. Whatever else comes out in the coming months will undoubtedly change this.

    ^the way the sentence would look if it was supposed to mean what you though.

    The way I wrote it was not clear but it was not wrong either. I will chalk this one up to my bad and forget it ever happend.

    ~Matisaro~
    "The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
    ~Tbird1.3@1.5~
  10. Kind of like the 600mhz between the athlon1.4 and the p4@2 is supposed to leave it in the dust? When on a kt266a or nforce the athlon performs equally as well as the chip which costs 5 times as much? I truely hope that post was sarcasm.

    ~Matisaro~
    "The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
    ~Tbird1.3@1.5~
  11. You cannot deny that P4 Northwood is going to be superior to Athlon XP.

    Wait till you see the benchmarks against Northwood and Athlon XP. However I do believe Athlon XP 1.53 vs P4 2Ghz..Xp will win.

    Northwood will be faster in most applications.
    Call it a hunch ;-)

    <font color=purple> **I eat confusion and spit it out slow**</font color=purple>
  12. I have no facts, but I have a feeling we're returning to the 512KB cache trend. Before it was 512KB external cache. Now it will be 512KB onboard cache that is significantly faster with lower latency. What I do know is that AMD will eventually catch up with Intel move for move. AMD has enough market share and finacial support to match Intel wherever they go. I'd say that Intel and AMD will continue to lead the processor market TOGETHER for several more years to come.

    AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
  13. >You cannot deny that P4 Northwood is going to be superior
    >to Athlon XP.
    to quote Raystonn afew posts higher:
    "These are more baseless claims. To date there have been no reviews of the Pentium 4 Northwood, and no benchmarks have been publicly released."

    wait and see. Personally, I sure hope it'll fast as hell. AS I hope Athlon XP will be a screamer, as I hope this for any future cpu.. we can only benefit..

    ---- Owner of the only Dell computer with an AMD chip
  14. Quote:
    we will only see a real world difference of 5%

    You might be right. However, see the review below where a Palomino core (Morgan) Duron, with SSE enabled, outperforms an identically clocked Athlon by 23% for MPEG-2 encoding using a DDR mobo. With an SDRAM mobo the "Morgan" only outperforms the Athlon by 14%. In this case, SSE is not enabled (because the KT7A BIOS does not yet recognize SSE). The author attributes this 14% gain in performance to the Morgan's Prefetch capability.

    <A HREF="http://www.aceshardware.com/Spades/read.php?article_id=45000207&keyword_highlight=morgan" target="_new">http://www.aceshardware.com/Spades/read.php?article_id=45000207&keyword_highlight=morgan</A>

    In games the Morgan is on par with the Athlon.

    Just think what a Palomino will do with the larger cache. (The Morgans and earlier Durons only have 192Kb of total cache compared to the Athlon's 384Kb).

    We will need to see actual Palominos tested with a broader range of tests to see how all results average.

    Would you like a Quarter Pounder?
    No, thank you. Just give me the BIG heatsink. It's an Athlon.
  15. Quote:
    You cannot deny that P4 Northwood is going to be superior to Athlon XP.

    It is not a fact yet gobbledegook, so I can deny it. However I accept that it most likely will be faster.
    Quote:
    Wait till you see the benchmarks against Northwood and Athlon XP. However I do believe Athlon XP 1.53 vs P4 2Ghz..Xp will win.

    I KNOW athlon xp 1.53 versus p4 2.0 will win. It is simple math to figure out what the results will be given we know how well the palomino performs(athlon mp).
    Quote:
    Northwood will be faster in most applications.
    Call it a hunch ;-)

    That is just that, a hunch.

    ~Matisaro~
    "The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
    ~Tbird1.3@1.5~
  16. Same chip as the tbird but its still 0.18micron, will produce less heat, Has a version of 3d now that will do SSE coding "Note: SSE2 is Intels open standard but AMD decided not to use but the Hammer will". Will be faster clock for clock against the Tbird.

    Nice Nvidia and ATi users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
  17. Wow, that's some great info! Sounds like its really going to show he P4 up.

    Has anyone heard anything about them giving some away? Seriously?

    rOscOe
  18. Even if a P4 is faster the Athlon will be a much better deal because (all of this is from price watch):

    $99 Athlon 1.4GHz 266 FSB
    $111 - Athlon 1.4GHz 200 FSB
    $95 - Athlon 1.33GHz 266 FSB
    $99 - Athlon 1.3GHz 200 FSB
    $86 - Athlon 1.2GHz 266 FSB
    $81 - Athlon 1.2GHz 200 FSB
    $83 - Athlon 1.13GHz 266 FSB
    $83 - Athlon 1.1GHz 200 FSB


    $537 - Pentium 4 2.0GHz
    $369 - Pentium 4 1.9GHz
    $223 - Pentium 4 1.8GHz
    $197 - Pentium 4 1.7GHz Sock 478
    $173 - Pentium 4 1.7GHz
    $164 - Pentium 4 1.6GHz
    $121 - Pentium 4 1.5GHz
    $112 - Pentium 4 1.4GHz
    $107 - Pentium 4 1.3GHz

    What makes this even more clear is that (from what I have heard) 1.4Ghz Athlons preforme on par with 2Ghz Pentium's.

    -Mike
  19. Note that the prices are in line with each other for equal clockspeeds. (Compare the Pentium 1.4GHz with the Athlon 1.4GHz.) AMD is moving to the PR rating system, so prices will no longer be equivolent for equal clockspeeds. For example, an Athlon PR1900 will be priced approximately the same as a Pentium 4 1.9GHz at these retailers. You cannot expect to retain the same price/performance ratio with the introduction of these PR ratings.

    -Raystonn


    = The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
  20. What makes you say that?

    Nice <b><font color=green>Lizards</b></font color=green> <b>crunch</b> Trolls cookies....... :smile: Yummy!! :smile:
  21. This is the whole reason they moved to the PR rating system. In todays markets, the average consumer uses the number printed next to the name of the CPU (usually the clockspeed) to determine how well it performs. If they can get an Athlon 1900 cheaper than a Pentium 4 1900, they will usually buy it. If the reverse is true, they will usually buy the Pentium 4. Thus, CPUs with a given number beside their product name are priced at approximately the same levels.

    This is done today for the Pentium 4 1.4GHz and Athlon 1.4GHz. They are close to the same price. Once the PR figures move in, the number next to your Athlon will be increasing without the actual performance of the CPU increasing. (The lower clockspeed numbers will be replaced with the higher PR numbers, without any change to the actual processors.) Your Athlon 1.4GHz will be renamed Athlon XP 1600 and priced against the Pentium 4 1.6GHz, rather than the Pentium 4 1.4GHz. In essence, prices will increased due to the supposed perception of better performance, but the processor will not have actually been modified. This increases your price / performance ratio.

    -Raystonn


    = The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
  22. ~ In essence, prices will increased due to the supposed perception of better performance, but the processor will not have actually been modified. This increases your price / performance ratio. ~

    Whoa, Raystonn. Though this is quite possible it is an assumption. Until we see the XP prices once they have ramped up to volume production levels this is only a hunch.


    <font color=blue> Smoke me a Chip'er ... I'll be back in the Morgan </font color=blue> :eek:
  23. ray, as I have pointed out so far, your theory sounds nice, but INTEL lowered its processors to match the athlon, not the other way around. AMD didnt say, ok the 1.4ghz p4 is selling for 120, lets price ours at 100 and we will clean up. No, AMD said it costs us 80 bucks(just example numbers I do not know the cpc on the athlon) lets sell it for 100 and make a nice profit. Then intel said "holy [-peep-], amd chips are as good or equal to ours for 500 bucks less, we better cut prices.". You can try to spin it any way you want, but AMD set the low prices FIRST, how can amd's prices be reactionary when they were set first?

    ~Matisaro~
    "The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
    ~Tbird1.3@1.5~
  24. AMD chose to use pr ratings because ignorant consumers automatically thinking 2ghz is faster than 1.4ghz, even when it isnt. They did not want to do it I would imagine, but now its done, and we have to live with it.

    I guarentee you that AMD will maintain its aggressive price difference, but only time will tell.

    ~Matisaro~
    "The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
    ~Tbird1.3@1.5~
  25. "INTEL lowered its processors to match the athlon, not the other way around."

    Intel does not compete with AMD on price. There are pricing roadmaps that have been created months in advance of any price drop.


    "AMD didnt say, ok the 1.4ghz p4 is selling for 120, lets price ours at 100 and we will clean up."

    I will have to disagree with you here. It appears this is exactly what they have done. AMD takes its competitor very seriously. They base both their prices and now their PR numbers off Intel products. However, Intel does not take AMD as seriously.


    "how can amd's prices be reactionary when they were set first"

    AMD set their prices first for which processors? Which Intel processors existed at that time? What price drops were made on the Intel processors that existed at that time? Frankly, I have not seen a new desktop AMD processor released any time recently. Please note that every AMD price drop has been immediately after a corresponding Intel price drop.

    In addition to all of this, the prices as set by the retailers was completely left out. Consumers generally expect a processor with a certain number next to it to be close in price to another with the same number next to it. Retailers know this and price accordingly. It really does not matter which manufacturer lowered prices at what time and who was being reactionary. All that matters is the resulting price of the processors as set by the retailers, such as those on <A HREF="http://www.pricewatch.com" target="_new">http://www.pricewatch.com</A>.

    -Raystonn


    = The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
  26. "AMD chose to use pr ratings because ignorant consumers automatically thinking 2ghz is faster than 1.4ghz, even when it isnt."

    Exactly. Thus, they were forced to price their systems based on clockspeed rather than performance. This led to extremely low price/performance ratios. With the release of the PR ratings system, they no longer are forced to price their systems based on clockspeed. They will be priced based on the PR number.

    -Raystonn


    = The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
  27. Why does AMD say like AthlonXP 1800 which runs at 1.53 or whatver. just make fooking faster cpu that goes 1.8
  28. I see where you're comming from but I still disagree with you. I believe that AMD will keep there low prices. I doubt that they will raise the price of their PR2000 to Match intels overpriced p4.

    Nice <b><font color=green>Lizards</b></font color=green> <b>crunch</b> Trolls cookies....... :smile: Yummy!! :smile:
  29. We will have to simply wait and see. My post was a forecast in response to another poster's forecast.

    -Raystonn


    = The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
  30. I know, but I don't believe to much in forecast. They're usually wrong.

    Nice <b><font color=green>Lizards</b></font color=green> <b>crunch</b> Trolls cookies....... :smile: Yummy!! :smile:
  31. That is true, but a athlon 1.4 Ghz is as fast as a pentium 4 2.0ghz, which costs about five times as much.
  32. Only in a few applications. It is a great deal slower than a Pentium 4 2.0GHz in some other applications. In fact, the Pentium 4 2.0GHz is actually generally thought of as having more performance than the Athlon 1.4GHz. Broad sweeping generalizations rarely work.

    -Raystonn


    = The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
  33. I have not looked into this in detail so are probably correct, but it is still unfair to compare a P4 1.4 to a Athlon 1.4, because the Athlon will definitely beat the P4. I know this because my Athon 1.2 almost beats the P4 1.6 in SiSoft Sanrda.
  34. It may or may not be fair, but the consumers will do it. They will also compare prices between them and get the cheapest. Thus, AMD could not price an Athlon 1.4GHz up with the prices of the Pentium 4 1.8GHz, even if it performed about as well. Noone would buy it as it would look slower than a Pentium 4 1.7GHz and be more expensive. With the introduction of the PR ratings, they now have more freedom in their pricing.

    -Raystonn


    = The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
  35. "AMD chose to use pr ratings because ignorant consumers automatically thinking 2ghz is faster than 1.4ghz, even when it isnt. "

    any P4 owns best AMD in memory bandwidth.

    Lots of applications today favors the P4 over the best AMD Flask, Quake, ...

    AMD is up against the wall in terms of clock speeds, so now they need to artificialy inflate the Mhz by switching to PR. this is the only way AMD is able to compete anymore (lie to the customers) and too bad they didnt use quake3 and flask to figure the PR rating =P (the 1.53 XP would have a PR rating of PR800) they chose selected applications that AMD accels in to base the PR rating.

    Only thing AMD actually wins as undisputed champion is the meltdown test, under 2 seconds is very impressive.

    AMD owners are gonna love the PR rating system =) so when your buddy goes and buys a new PR1600 he is actually buying a AMD 1.1Ghz at a artifically infalted price since people will not always know what is actually inside the box.

    Matisaro, 2Ghz is faster than 1.4 by 600Mhz... you failed math or something?
  36. I don't car what the "consumers" buy or think. I am just trying to say: <b>An Athlon is a better deal that a Pentium</b>.
  37. Lots? And you list two. Maybe you're the one who failed math? :)

    The only apps you list are a program used by a very small percentage of users (Flask), and a game that sucks ass (Quake 3, IMO of course).
    Well done, very convincing argument there.

    <font color=green>I post so you don't have to!
    9/11 - RIP</font color=green>
  38. Fine, you are free to say this. But it has nothing to do with the original point. AMD will have much more freedom in the pricing of their Athlon XP line due to the PR ratings. Freedom is a great thing for he who has it. But it can be very bad for those who purchase from them.

    -Raystonn


    = The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
  39. Okay here's my 2 cents about what I think AMD is doing with this whole PR rating system. First of all we know that 1.4ghz AMD is on par or even better than the 1.8ghz Intel, however on paper it looks like Intel has the upper hand. Thus AMD is losing sales to the overpriced, and underpowered Intel chip. So I think if AMD sells a 1.4ghz chip as a PR1800 at the same price, then on paper it looks like your getting equal speed for a lot less money. So in fact I think AMD is making a smart marketing move. Trying to attract Intel buyers into thinking they are getting ripped off (Which they really are!!!).
  40. I agree with you there.

    Hay Trolls (Fugger) go back under the brige. With the Sewer Water you stink.
  41. I agree with you on that, but I expect that AMD CPUs will still be more competitively priced than Intel’s.
  42. Quote:
    Note that the prices are in line with each other for equal clockspeeds. (Compare the Pentium 1.4GHz with the Athlon 1.4GHz.)

    Not really:

    $99 Athlon 1.4GHz 266 FSB
    $112 - Pentium 4 1.4GHz

    While $13.00 may seem insignificant to you in terms of percentages it is a difference of 12%. And the t-bird clearly is the winner in terms of performance when comparing these two as well. Now if 12% seems insignificant to you then that would make the performance difference between the 1.4 gig t-bird and 2.0 gig p4 insignificant as well. Now lets look at this:

    $537 - Pentium 4 2.0GHz

    Ouch! At over 5 times the cost of the t-bird at 1.4 gig the p4 can finally claim the performace crown for the moment. God I would hope so! But maybe not if you consider 12% insignificant?

    Quote:
    Intel does not compete with AMD on price.

    Hey I agree with you here! That much is clearly obvious!

    Quote:
    However, Intel does not take AMD as seriously.

    Well, serious enough to almost release a faulty 1.13 gig p3 to gain back the fastest processor crown a while back. Serious enough to actually introduce a casterated p4 before the northwood was ready. And if you think the recent Intell price cuts had nothing to do with competition from AMD you are truly kidding yourself.

    And now a word about the PR ratings. I don't like them myself but it is all just marketing.....I don't particully like the blue man group either...at least with the PR rating AMD and there users aren't going to have to pay out millions that would ultimatly effect the cost of the processors. Fact of the matter is who cares what it is called? What matters most is what it cost and how well it performs and the ratio derived between the two.


    Video editing?? Ha, I don't even own a camera!
  43. i agree, release date is officially october 9th

    if in doubt blame microsoft...
  44. Quote:
    Intel does not compete with AMD on price. There are pricing roadmaps that have been created months in advance of any price drop.


    So says you, AMD has always had the lower prices, INtel has ALWAYS lowered its prices to try and compete with AMD, you are wrong here ray. The 1.4ghz p4 was twice as much as its counterpart on the amd side for quite some time. AMD is not matching p4 pricing. Claiming that now that AMD is using performance ratings means that it will charge more for its chips is baseless at best.

    Quote:
    I will have to disagree with you here. It appears this is exactly what they have done. AMD takes its competitor very seriously. They base both their prices and now their PR numbers off Intel products. However, Intel does not take AMD as seriously.


    Again you are wrong, AMD set the low price tone before intel did, intel's price cuts(no matter what you claim is the true motivation) look and act like REACTIONARY measures. It is true that intel has anounced general price cuts then amd has followed with equal price cuts, but amd had the lower price the whole time. As for pr, yes AMD is compairing its performance to intel chips,intel is its competitor, you would not compare the 0-60 speed of a ferrari to a stick of butter would you? The new performance ratings are there because intels empty mhz lead confuses ignorant pc buyers. This move may be a mistake on AMD's part but thats another discussion.


    ~Matisaro~
    "The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
    ~Tbird1.3@1.5~
  45. Quote:
    Exactly. Thus, they were forced to price their systems based on clockspeed rather than performance. This led to extremely low price/performance ratios. With the release of the PR ratings system, they no longer are forced to price their systems based on clockspeed. They will be priced based on the PR number.


    Not price, RATE, there is a difference. The release price of the new xp 1800 is LESS than the p4 1.8ghz. (99% sure on that if I remember the figure at the register correctly). Just because AMD is calling a 1.53ghz a pr 1800 does not mean it will charge more than if it had been an athlon4 1.53ghz. To claim otherwise is baseless speculation.

    ~Matisaro~
    "The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
    ~Tbird1.3@1.5~
  46. Careful, almost on the troll side again.

    Nice <b><font color=green>Lizards</b></font color=green> <b>crunch</b> Trolls cookies....... :smile: Yummy!! :smile:
  47. Heh, I just didnt like how rayy claimed I was making basless claims in an earlier thread when I basically was saying the same thing he was(save I was for lower prices from amd instead of higher), and I put "probably" and "most likely" before my posts unlike him.

    ~Matisaro~
    "The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
    ~Tbird1.3@1.5~
  48. I know. :smile: I just wanted to help you keep from trolling.

    Nice <b><font color=green>Lizards</b></font color=green> <b>crunch</b> Trolls cookies....... :smile: Yummy!! :smile:
  49. Sorry. Regardless of what you say, Intel does not compete with AMD on price. Price reductions are a mere consequence of the ramping up of the Pentium 4 platform. Intel decided to accelerate Pentium 4 acceptance and phase out the Pentium III platform by the end of this year. This required more agressive ramping. Part of this is reducing the prices in various ranges so we have Pentium 4 platforms at all price points, including the value price points. This is just standard operating procedure. Introducing the Pentium 4 at value price points to replace the Pentium III line requires a reduction in prices.

    -Raystonn


    = The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
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