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New Celeron Beets All Athlon for OC Perf.

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October 3, 2001 11:01:19 PM

The PIII Tualatin Matches the T-Bird "C" clock-for clock. The new Celeron is the same chip as the PIII but at a lower bus speed. Set the new 1.2GHz Celeron to 1.6GHz via a 133FSB bus speed and it beets everything on the market. How is this possible when it scored so low on Toms review? Easy:
1.) The Celeron 1.2GHz is UNCHANGED from the PIII Tualatin except for the bus speed.
2.) The PIII 256k Tualatin matches the T-Bird "C" clock for clock in previous testing.
3.) The Celeron is limmited in performance only by it's bus speed.
4.) The only way to overclock the Tually Celly is with bus speed increase.
5.) We already know that the Tually 256k PIII matches the Athlon "C" in performance, see #2 above.
6.) If you increase the bus speed of the Tually Celly to 133MHz, it IS a Tually PIII 256k.
7.) We already know that the Tually PIII 256k can match the Athlon "C" clock for clock, see #2 and #5 above.
8.) The Tually Celly at 12x133 becomes a PIII Tually 1.6GHz. We already know that the PIII 256k Tually matches the Athlon "C" for performance. See #2, #5, #7 above. Therefore, the 1.2GHz Celly when overclocked to 133FSB will match a T-Bird 1.6GHz. Since there are no T-Birds at that speed, it wins everything.
9) The Athlon XP 1800 is just a little better than the T-Bird, maybe a direct match for the Tually Celly at 1600/133FSB. But at 2x the price. There goes your price/performance ratio. Since you can't overclock the T-Bird beyond 1600, you have to overclock the XP to beet it, therefor maintaining the Celly as the king of overclocking performance for you price/performance ratio freeks.

Back to you Tom...
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
October 3, 2001 11:18:56 PM

Chrashman i'm thinking of buying the Tually Celly 1.2 and oc it 1.6 as you described above could you please give me advise on what ram is the best for achiving a good oc and motherboard. I was thinking of going with ASUS TUSL2-C http://www.digit-life.com/articles/tualatin/

Also if you have any other advise (considerations..best ram brand and cas setting2? etc..)
October 3, 2001 11:21:31 PM

Interesting in theory. Are you planning on doing a benchmark comparison for us?
Personally I've been thinking of upgrading, and the new Celeron looks like a good choice. I'd probably have to buy new RAM to overclock it though, I don't think my generic PC100 could cut it. What motherboards are available for it?

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."
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a c 159 à CPUs
October 3, 2001 11:23:15 PM

I like the specs for the new celeron and tually, but when you factor in the high cost of the tually, or the cost of the motherboard, the athlon 1.4 with a board like the ECS K7S5A is still the winner overall at about $80 less than a good celly combo. But if I had the bucks, I would definately consider the tually, especially since it runs cooler.
a b à CPUs
October 3, 2001 11:24:17 PM

I'd stick with the reputable Crucial Cas2 PC133. I got 2 of their 256MB sticks for a little over $70 a couple weeks back and I hear it's dropped since.

Back to you Tom...
a b à CPUs
October 3, 2001 11:26:33 PM

I haven't seen the priceing on the 1.2GHz Celly yet, but I'm SURE it's much lower than the PIII version.

Back to you Tom...
a b à CPUs
October 3, 2001 11:28:22 PM

Most manufacturers that made the 815 motherboard are now making the revised version for the Tually. Asus TUSL2-C sounds good to me.

Back to you Tom...
October 3, 2001 11:31:14 PM

The Celeron 1.2GHz is $103 in lots of 1000, which I believe is identical to the lot price of a Duron 1.1GHz.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
October 3, 2001 11:31:43 PM

I agree that it is a nice chip, but in practical application, this thing will not have much. Intel, I would think, would phase this out rather quickly leaving you with no real upgrade path. That and the mainboard requires a special Socket, differing from the normal ones for these Tully Celly's.

Correct me if I am wrong; I am just thinking and so forth. No data to back it up, aside from the socket bit.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
October 3, 2001 11:31:53 PM

Sounds good! This will be one kick ass machine for sure and good value as well!!!

Thx man!
a b à CPUs
October 3, 2001 11:34:43 PM

I don't plan on getting one because I don't plan on upgrading for several more months, and by then I'll have even better options.

Back to you Tom...
a b à CPUs
October 3, 2001 11:38:47 PM

Thanks for the info Raystonn. If I was upgrading right now this would be a sure thing for me, but since I'm not, I'll leave it to the kids in here. My 933 is still chugging along doing everything as quickly as needed, even games. The only thing that would force me to upgrade is if I wanted to rip DVD's.

Back to you Tom...
October 3, 2001 11:40:32 PM

I'm jumping the gun a bit, I shouldn't upgrade until after my exams. The new Celeron should be even cheaper by then. :) 

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."
a b à CPUs
October 3, 2001 11:43:40 PM

Don't get me wrong, I'd upgrade now if someone was buying my old system right now.

Back to you Tom...
October 3, 2001 11:51:21 PM

My only other question is, what heat sink? What will fit on that motherboard?

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."
October 4, 2001 1:13:53 AM

I'll tell you this now: if you want a 1.2GHz Celeron to run at 1.6GHz, you'll need a really good HSF, a good power supply and lots of case fans. The thing is, you'll still have to go through a bit of a hassle to actually get it to work.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
October 4, 2001 1:41:58 AM

AMD needs a die shrink.... and the .13 machinery is in place... the palamino and morgan are just for this QUARTER.... after that... .13 Appaloosa's and Thoroughbreds will be running rampant....

one thing the tually cant due in run in dual mode..... 2 morgans at 1.250 ghz on a soon to be released ABIT DUAL BOARD will be murder
October 4, 2001 2:04:36 AM

Crash - I agree in theory to your post, except -

The tester couldn't get their Celly to 1.6 with FSB - even stating it was not a heat issue. What's the beef here? Will the current 1.2 Celly core really get to 1.6 with reasonable air cooling?

Most people cannot cpu upgrade to a Celly - they need the new motherboard to do so. Whilst not that expensive, the Celly is supposed to be a budget system. Why would you invest in a new mobo/cpu that may only have a limited future life? Socket 370 seems to be on its way out - is the Celly in 370 format to continue or will it soon be retired? Are Intel just trying to get back some of the R&D costs on the core upgrade, or just practicing .13 chips to get the Northwood correct?

A theoretical 1.6 Tully may beat a 1.4 Athlon, but why are we not allowed to overclock the Athlon too - since the 1.4 usually (has been proven to in many cases, unlike the Celly so far) can hit 1.6 or thereabouts - often more.

Sure - it looks good, but having to buy a new mobo that may have no future does not strike me as a good economy investment. I'd go for the Athlon, overclock it and then ensure I'll be upgradeable to the XP or future Morgan cores. Also the Duron/Morgan, I feel, would have performed similarly if clocked to a 133FSB and mated with DDR, the latter of which is little more expensive than SDR now and within spec for the chip and many motherboards.

Just my .02C



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October 4, 2001 3:59:21 AM

Raystonn, are you able to say roughly what the life cycle remaining might be of the Socket 370 format, even in FC-PGA2 for the .13 core chips? Is the .13 Celly just a stop gap, and might the lower cache current P4 become the new Celeron to the Northwood with higher cache and FPU when it is released, both being 478 packages? Probably if you know you cannot really say, but I'm not sure I've seen anything reliable in terms of roadmaps lately...

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a b à CPUs
October 4, 2001 4:15:19 AM

Most normal heatsinks fit. I like the Evercool units because they come with a good fan, the ND-9 should fit. Next down on my list is the VolcanoII. There are larger volcano units that are probably too wide to fit.

Back to you Tom...
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October 4, 2001 4:18:25 AM

I mentioned that the 1.4 could usually be overclocked about as far as the Celeron. Which still makes the Celeron a great value considering they would perform about the same at 1600.
You have to raise the core voltage to get it to got to 1.6GHz. At least it's not a heat issue.

Back to you Tom...
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