Where does the truth begin?

Guest · Oct 10, 2001

In all the commotion I came to the realization along with other members of the community there are things amiss. I congratulate AMD on the yet still 0.18-micron A4-XP. It’s nice to see they take Intel and Motorola’s technology farther that either company thought they could.

But the bigger issue is something underlying to all these so-called benchmarks. Like for instance wouldn’t it make a difference if we knew what the BIOS settings and releases were or what about the drivers, software builds and patches, DirectX versions. Windows settings, FSB, PCI and AGP speeds, what about aperture size or better yet what about fast writes being enabled? Maybe if we knew what the system was set up as in 98 as a network server or desktop machine or in 2k the page file usage, and for all the operating systems page files size and drive speeds. Or the biggest issue I found during my endeavors for system perfection, installation order. There are a few others that I should list but I think you get the point. To properly show each company flag ship CPU’s we would need to know this. But we don’t get to know and that’s what I’m concerned about, how can we as consumers or in some case zealots dictate our arguments and purchases when there is the underlying issue of how the results were gathered and created? Well that’s all from me and my conspiracy theory’s later folks.

-Spuddy

Being Evil Is Good. Cause I Can Be A Prick And Get Away With It. :lol:

Dai · Oct 10, 2001

Whether it's computers or cars, there's always going to be room for fine tuning that improves performance. I think though, what's most important to the vast majority of users is their performance "off the shelf" which, I presume, is pretty much how the benchmarks are done.

I certainly can't believe that it's to any Mobo manufacturer's benefit to make more effort tuning the BIOS for one type of processor over another and as far as I can see from THG and Anandtech, they try and use the best boards currently available for each processor, for their benchmarks.

On that assumption, I assume that the benchmarks are fair.

Dai

peteb · Oct 10, 2001

Good post.

That is why I guess we try and line up and compare many reviews and make a judgment call over it.

I think overall the setup of a PC is so subjective and inexact that all we can do is look for the trends. At least across sites it should show the average best system/component comparisons. Many reviews do cary a lot of system info, many virtually none.

-* This Space For Rent *-
email for application details

Guest · Oct 10, 2001

Yes but do we know for certain that to cripple one CPU over another they disabled fast write or placed the AGP aperture size to 24 MB or changed the PCI timings to 128. These are issues that have to be addressed. I know you are all happy the A4-XP is out and running nicely. But what measures were taken to have the A4-XP somewhat destroy (I hate to use such childish terms for machos) the P4 in Q3. I for one want to know, for one I noticed progressively in the P4 2 GHZ reviews it lost points across the board from every single benchmark 1 or 2 sometimes 3 points somehow disappeared adding to the gap that most of us anticipated for the release of the A4-XP processor VS the P4. Now I’m very pro Intel as you know but I can admit when we have been beaten. All I want to see is a fair comparison of both CPU’s on somewhat equal ground. Because I for one want to see real benchmarks not some guy in Germany pulling heat sinks off processors to prove a valid point but too a childish extreme. I want to see well-rounded and well documented testing done. But I guess that’s too much to ask for. Well back to Diablo 2 consider yourselves lucky I came from a game to post. Later guys.

-Spuddy

Being Evil Is Good. Cause I Can Be A Prick And Get Away With It. :lol:

lhgpoobaa · Oct 10, 2001

least now we have two similar mobo's for the P4 & athlon... so the comparison doesnt depend on an entirely dfferent setup and ram type.

also with all thouse benchmarks it shows us that the choice of mobo is more important than what speed processor to get (to a degree of course)

cant wait till the sis 645 with pc2700 ddr is out!, or northwood

Religious wars are 2 groups of people fighting over who has the best imaginary friend.

jeffg007 · Oct 10, 2001

SpudMuffin get over it. No matter how much you try and Analyze P4 Vs A4-XP the p4 lost. So stop your crying and deal with it.

Jeff

Guest · Oct 11, 2001

Trust me if I was whining I would be making a huge fuss, and posting a ton of bogus posts like some AMD employee on the forum. All I'm saying is I want to see more balance testing, more information regarding the tests, AMD and Intel approved testing methods, video recorded benchmarks and recoded benchmarks, these ancient benchmarks make me laugh more than anything. I love how you all hold your own small piece of this world to these benchmarks to justify you existence, behaviors, and opinions over companies that really could care less about you (I know I have said it before).

But since no one else has said so from my side good job AMD on the CPU most impressed. I have my extreme doubts of the PR system but that’s beside the point. It’s nice to see that AMD in the trying times to come out with what seems to be a fantastic chip yet still 0.18…

Other that that my I think I’m done for this rant sees you guys later.

-Spuddy

Being Evil Is Good. Cause I Can Be A Prick And Get Away With It. :lol:

Ncogneto · Oct 11, 2001

Hey hold on a second the guy has a legitimate bitch here. However. most of the issues he addresses are actually motherboard issues ( which will admittably skew the results of any processor). Truth of the matter is seeing how you will never see a motherboard that can support both the xp and the p4 we will never be able to make a direct comparison of the two, only comparisons of entire platforms.

The issues he address's are actually quite significant when doing motherboard reviews. While Asus always looks to be one of the best performing motherboards in its class, how many people are aware that most Asus boards get an edge by running there FSB slighly overclocked? Is it far to compare two motherboards when one is running at 133 mhz and the other is at 133.9?

Video editing?? Ha, I don't even own a camera!

Matisaro · Oct 11, 2001

Hmmm, seeing as I am the only AMD employee on this forum(that I know of) those comments must be directed at me.

LoL, bogus posts,I dont make bogus posts and at least I am not whining about the validitiy of dozens of benchmark sets because they invalidate my TROLL BELIEF that intel is god.

Go away troll,dont insult the validity of my posts with inunendo, if you feel a post I have made is bogus, reply to it so I can debate the points of it with you in a logical manner. You are commonly ranked with FUGGER and Amdmeltdown and you are well known here spud.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

Guest · Oct 11, 2001

Matisaro
I really appreciate your reply. No cuts, no jabs, no garbage. Some years back I quit coming to these forums because of all the Intel/AMD-AMD/Intel bashing. God it got old! I have built my own systems with both brands, but I tend to lean towards AMD. I don't care what anyone thinks about AMD, I just like their products and how they meet all of my computing needs.
I enjoy reading post from those like yourself who are knowledgable about their products and willing to share that info. I have gained a great deal of computer knowledge by reading the posts here. I guess what I'm saying is, thank you.

AmdMELTDOWN · Oct 11, 2001

>seeing as I am the only AMD employee on this forum(that I know of)

hahaha! get real, you're just an half-a$$ fujitsu lacky and a AMDployee wannabe, who the f signs your checks, Mr. Sanders?

got your XP yet, hmmm I bet you cant afford AMD right now, that benchmark's is burning a lil' hole in your pocket.

"AMD/VIA!...you are still the weakest link, good bye!"

Guest · Oct 11, 2001

Well for one thing like usual you bring a totally invalid point to a thread (sigh what’s new?). But in fact I don’t believe Intel is god because I don’t practice and religion of any kind so I find yet another pointless remark from you. But hey, over the last several months of reading over your posts I’ve come to the understanding to never expect anything more of you Matisaro. Respond to your posts why; I’ll get flamed by you and your fellow lackeys like Kelledin and Yahiko81.

Like I said before Mr. cranky pants I’m not whining all I’m asking for is more truth to the truth we are getting. Aren’t we all entitled to it? Or are you satisfied with the bogus, pull the heat sink fan off the CPU fiascos?

-Spuddy

Being Evil Is Good. Cause I Can Be A Prick And Get Away With It. :lol:

Matisaro · Oct 11, 2001

Thankyou very much dameek I appreciate the sentiment.

Meltdown, are you on some kind of medication you have been forgetting to take?

As for you spud, I have said all I need to say in my above post.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

Yahiko81 · Oct 11, 2001

I'm not his f*ckin lackey. Where did you get this idea?

Nice Lizards crunch Trolls cookies.......

Yummy!!

Raystonn · Oct 11, 2001

I agree here. We do need more details as to how these benchmarks are run. We need exact details on bios settings, drivers, patches, revisions of all kind, etc. I would like to be able to reproduce these results on an identical machine, but they do not give enough information to produce an identical machine.

-Raystonn

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =

Kelledin · Oct 11, 2001

>sigh< So now I'm dragged into this? Just give it up already.

If you want to insult my character, take it to some thread where you think my character needs insulting. Guess what--this is no such thread.

FWIW, I can see your point about benchmark details, but hashing this argument the day after your idol CPU gets soundly defeated in benchmarks smacks of a denial phase. I was feeling like too much of a good sport to mention that. :tongue:

Kelledin

"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."

Guest · Oct 11, 2001

Well I seem to have some weird ability. I’m able to read and assess due to reading. I watch you behaviors and actions on the forum. I’ve come to the understanding and conclusion you are buddies hand and hand threw your endeavors threw the Toms Hardware Community. To most that support your case, it’s simply a good laugh to clash with Raystonn, AMDmeltdown, Fugger, and now me. You yourselves are trolls by nature as you tromp around the forum chiming everything that AMD has to say just like AMDmeltdown does for Intel. But people like you take the fun away from the forum because users such as myself cant are bothered to post anything related to Intel or really anything in general because we are flamed in a matter of seconds. We lost the constructive criticism and good old horseplay that I came here and enjoyed. Now all it is, is some corporate war between the consumer bases here.

It’s sad that you can’t realize that both companies are good. But unfortunately how the market is without Intel, AMD would be no more. But hey AMD sure gives a good fight, which I can commend them on. It’s also sad that you don’t want to know how the test results were gathered but hey when you troll you really don’t care what they have to say as long as it fuels your trolling exploits. Trust me guys I know. Later guys.

-Spuddy

Being Evil Is Good. Cause I Can Be A Prick And Get Away With It. :lol:

Guest · Oct 11, 2001

I’m glad you read through my post thorough like an educated Joe would. You make me laugh such sarcastic remarks I can’t do anything else but that (spud giggles). Now I know why AMDmeltdown loves this place you are so troll like you troll even when you have no intention of doing it (kind of like me RIGHT now). LMAO later guys.

-Spuddy

Being Evil Is Good. Cause I Can Be A Prick And Get Away With It. :lol:

Yahiko81 · Oct 11, 2001

Are you sure you can read? I don't think you have read very many of my post. I've been trying to keep people from trolling. I haven't really considered you much of a troll. The main trolls are AMDMeltdown, Fugger, Matisario, Rcf84, Juin and a couple of others that pop up every now and then. I recommend AMD largely because I don't know that much about the current Intel systems. I rarely tell anyone to go with AMD over Intel when they ask for an Intel system. Find me 3 threads where I've convinced and Intel user to go with AMD. I just think you've a select few of my post and didn't catch my humor. I'm sorry you couldn't get it. I try to keep people from trolling but a little bit of trolling is good for the forum. It keeps things a bit interesting. I'm sorry to have disturbed you from your game to post this little rant but I just wanted to set you straight.

Nice Lizards crunch Trolls cookies.......

Yummy!!

Guest · Oct 11, 2001

Hmm very mature well thought response Yayahiko81. Maybe ill pull back on calling you a troll you seem to be very respectful about it. Hmm oops jumped to an unfair conclusion sorry dude.

-Spuddy

Being Evil Is Good. Cause I Can Be A Prick And Get Away With It. :lol:

Yahiko81 · Oct 11, 2001

It's ok. I'm quite a confusing person. Seeing as how I'm only serious about 40% of the time.

Nice Lizards crunch Trolls cookies.......

Yummy!!

FatBurger · Oct 11, 2001

Seeing as how I'm only serious about 40% of the time.

Mate, it's not even CLOSE to that high

I post so you don't have to!
9/11 - RIP

Yahiko81 · Oct 11, 2001

Damn, you've been talking to the smurfs again haven't you. By the way how do you attack in ADOM? I can kick but don't know how to attack witha weapon.

Nice Lizards crunch Trolls cookies.......

Yummy!!

FatBurger · Oct 11, 2001

Just bump up against them. Or hit 'T' for a projectile weapon (like rocks, bow+arrow, etc)

Kind of like the old game 'Castle Adventure'

I post so you don't have to!
9/11 - RIP

Yahiko81 · Oct 11, 2001

Just found that out by bumping a small child. heheh it was fun till they sent the dragon.

Nice Lizards crunch Trolls cookies.......

Yummy!!

Where does the truth begin?

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