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Which hard drive works?

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Anonymous
September 20, 2004 2:02:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

I would like to add another internal hard drive, of 120GB or larger size to
my computer Dimension 8200 (its has a 40G now). I do a lot of audio work and
the 40G is full now.

When using Dell website to select drives for this machine, only 80GB are
shown. Is that the max size I can go? If not, what other drive can I use?
The drives shown were specified as EIDE type. I would also like a minimum
7200 RPM drive.

Also, when I buy it from Dell, does it come with instructions and everything
I need to install and cables etc?

Thanks for any help!

More about : hard drive works

Anonymous
September 20, 2004 3:09:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 22:02:56 -0700, stratman wrote in
<news:eqt3d.27311$ni.8550@okepread01>:

> I would like to add another internal hard drive, of 120GB or larger size to
> my computer Dimension 8200 (its has a 40G now). I do a lot of audio work and
> the 40G is full now.
>
> When using Dell website to select drives for this machine, only 80GB are
> shown. Is that the max size I can go? If not, what other drive can I use?
> The drives shown were specified as EIDE type. I would also like a minimum
> 7200 RPM drive.
>
> Also, when I buy it from Dell, does it come with instructions and everything
> I need to install and cables etc?
>
> Thanks for any help!

If I were you, I'd just go to Best Buy, CompUSA, Circuit City, etc. and
pick up a hard drive. I was just in Best Buy yesterday and they had a
120GB Seagate SATA hard drive for $96. I'm sure you can find it a little
cheaper on the 'net, but then you have to pay shipping and wait for it to
arrive, etc. I'm not sure how much the IDE hard drives were since I don't
use them for my 8400.

As for cables and instructions, yes those will come in the box. However,
you probably won't need a cable if you only have a single hard drive in
your system. You would just need to screw on the two plastic "rails" to
the hard drive itself (there should be some extra ones inside your computer
case), make sure it's jumpered correctly for slave or cable select, slide
it into place, plug in one of the connectors on the IDE cable, and plug in
a power connector.

Boot up and once you get to the Windows desktop go to Control Panel ->
Administrative Tools -> Computer Management -> Disk Management and select
the new hard drive which you should see here if it's jumpered correctly.
If not, check the jumper plug again. The main hard drive or the one you
are booting from (the one already in your system) will be either master or
cable select. If it's master set the second hard drive to slave. If the
one in your system already is set to cable select, set the new drive to
cable select as well. Also make sure the boot hard drive is on the end of
the IDE cable. It should be there already with an empty connector in the
middle of the cable. This is the cable you will hook to the new drive.
Anyway, back to formatting... Right click on the new hard drive once you
get to Disk Management and select format and Windows will format it for
you. Once that is done it's all ready to use.

This is how I've added IDE hard drives to my Windows XP system before. :-)

Dave
--
You can talk about us, but you can't talk without us!
US Army Signal Corps!!

http://www.geocities.com/davidcasey98

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September 20, 2004 8:15:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

David Casey wrote:

> On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 22:02:56 -0700, stratman wrote in
> <news:eqt3d.27311$ni.8550@okepread01>:
>
>> I would like to add another internal hard drive, of 120GB or larger size to
>>my computer Dimension 8200 (its has a 40G now). I do a lot of audio work and
>>the 40G is full now.
>>
>>When using Dell website to select drives for this machine, only 80GB are
>>shown. Is that the max size I can go? If not, what other drive can I use?
>>The drives shown were specified as EIDE type. I would also like a minimum
>>7200 RPM drive.
>>
>>Also, when I buy it from Dell, does it come with instructions and everything
>>I need to install and cables etc?
>>
>>Thanks for any help!
>
> If I were you, I'd just go to Best Buy, CompUSA, Circuit City, etc. and
> pick up a hard drive. I was just in Best Buy yesterday and they had a
> 120GB Seagate SATA hard drive for $96. I'm sure you can find it a little
> cheaper on the 'net, but then you have to pay shipping and wait for it to
> arrive, etc. I'm not sure how much the IDE hard drives were since I don't
> use them for my 8400.

Generally good advice, but you're not quite on the money when it comes
to online merchants - I bought a new HDD from Newegg last month, they
were offering free 2 day shipping & the price was much better than the
local CompUSA had it. This was a bare drive, i.e., no cables, screws,
instructions, which shouldn't be a problem as David pointed out.

If you have a Dell (which you do), the new HDD should be jumpered for
Cable Select (CS). IIRC most HDDs come jumpered for Master. FYI, you may
need needlenose pliers to manipulate the jumper.
Related resources
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 8:15:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:15:36 GMT, Sparky wrote in
<news:ImD3d.581$3Y3.1712928@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>:

> Generally good advice, but you're not quite on the money when it comes
> to online merchants - I bought a new HDD from Newegg last month, they
> were offering free 2 day shipping & the price was much better than the
> local CompUSA had it. This was a bare drive, i.e., no cables, screws,
> instructions, which shouldn't be a problem as David pointed out.
>
> If you have a Dell (which you do), the new HDD should be jumpered for
> Cable Select (CS). IIRC most HDDs come jumpered for Master. FYI, you may
> need needlenose pliers to manipulate the jumper.

I just bought and installed a DVD burner this weekend and as I was reading
through the manual it came with, it said to use cable select you had to
have a special cable select IDE cable. I'd never heard of that before and
it didn't really apply to me since in my 8400 everything is set to cable
select from the factory anyway. Just wondering if such a cable really does
exist and what the difference might be.

Dave
--
You can talk about us, but you can't talk without us!
US Army Signal Corps!!

http://www.geocities.com/davidcasey98

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Anonymous
September 20, 2004 9:18:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Cable select cables have one wire filaments cut to one of the connectors. I
don't have a cable select cable to tell you which filament is cut to which
connector. If you jumper both devices in the cable select position, one device
will show up as master and the other as slave, the relation dictated by the
position on the cable. Hence the name "cable select." The connectors on these
cable are also usually marked "system", "master" and "slave", so they can be
connected up properly.

The other type of cable has all wire filaments present to both connectors, and
drives must be explicitly jumpered as master or slave with this type of cable.
A drive jumpered as master can be attached to either of the non-system cable
connectors. Same with slave.

One can, of course, jumper a drive as master and connect it to the master
position of a cable select cable, and the drive will operate properly as a
master. Same with slave... Ben Myers

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:52:21 -0600, David Casey <sgtcasey@IH8SPAMcableone.net>
wrote:

>On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:15:36 GMT, Sparky wrote in
><news:ImD3d.581$3Y3.1712928@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>:
>
>> Generally good advice, but you're not quite on the money when it comes
>> to online merchants - I bought a new HDD from Newegg last month, they
>> were offering free 2 day shipping & the price was much better than the
>> local CompUSA had it. This was a bare drive, i.e., no cables, screws,
>> instructions, which shouldn't be a problem as David pointed out.
>>
>> If you have a Dell (which you do), the new HDD should be jumpered for
>> Cable Select (CS). IIRC most HDDs come jumpered for Master. FYI, you may
>> need needlenose pliers to manipulate the jumper.
>
>I just bought and installed a DVD burner this weekend and as I was reading
>through the manual it came with, it said to use cable select you had to
>have a special cable select IDE cable. I'd never heard of that before and
>it didn't really apply to me since in my 8400 everything is set to cable
>select from the factory anyway. Just wondering if such a cable really does
>exist and what the difference might be.
>
>Dave
>--
>You can talk about us, but you can't talk without us!
>US Army Signal Corps!!
>
>http://www.geocities.com/davidcasey98
>
>Remove IH8SPAM to reply by email!
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 9:18:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

(Ben Myers)> wrote:
> One can, of course, jumper a drive as master and connect
> it to the master position of a cable select cable, and the drive
> will operate properly as a master. Same with slave...


The jumpering is only to differentiate the drives on the
channel. A drive jumpered "Master" can be put at the
intermediate connector, and a drive jumpered "Slave"
can be put at the end connector, and they will work just as
well. "Master" and "Slave" are bad names. "Drive X" and
"Drive Y" would actually be better since they don't imply
a hierarchy of authority.

*TimDaniels*
September 20, 2004 9:18:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in message news:o 7Gdnb18UZNyi9LcRVn-vA@comcast.com...

> "Master" and "Slave" are bad names.

Which is probably why that nomenclature was abandoned starting
with ATA-2.

> "Drive X" and "Drive Y" would actually be better since they
> don't imply a hierarchy of authority.

Device 0 and Device 1 are the proper names.
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 10:15:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"The jumpering is only to differentiate the drives on the channel. A drive
jumpered "Master" can be put at the intermediate connector, and a drive jumpered
"Slave" can be put at the end connector, and they will work just as well." True,
with the other "non-cable select" type of cable, where positions of the drives
are irrelevant. While explicit master and slave jumpering may work with
cable-select cables, it violates the standard.

The master and slave designations accurately depict function. IDE/ATAPI drives
have built-in controller logic to replace the freestanding controllers of their
similar MFM, RLL and ESDI predecessors. The "master" IDE drive in a two-drive
setup interprets and executes commands on behalf of the "slave". There is a
reason for the politically incorrect master-slave relationship, which is why the
industry standard body which concocted it used the terminology that it did.

.... Ben Myers

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:44:20 -0700, "Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com>
wrote:

>
>(Ben Myers)> wrote:
>> One can, of course, jumper a drive as master and connect
>> it to the master position of a cable select cable, and the drive
>> will operate properly as a master. Same with slave...
>
>
> The jumpering is only to differentiate the drives on the
>channel. A drive jumpered "Master" can be put at the
>intermediate connector, and a drive jumpered "Slave"
>can be put at the end connector, and they will work just as
>well. "Master" and "Slave" are bad names. "Drive X" and
>"Drive Y" would actually be better since they don't imply
>a hierarchy of authority.
>
>*TimDaniels*
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 12:13:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

You can install any EIDE drive up to 120 gig with no problem.
Make sure you do NOT get an SATA drive by mistake


--
Steve


"stratman" <stratman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:eqt3d.27311$ni.8550@okepread01...
> I would like to add another internal hard drive, of 120GB or larger
size to
> my computer Dimension 8200 (its has a 40G now). I do a lot of audio
work and
> the 40G is full now.
>
> When using Dell website to select drives for this machine, only 80GB
are
> shown. Is that the max size I can go? If not, what other drive can I
use?
> The drives shown were specified as EIDE type. I would also like a
minimum
> 7200 RPM drive.
>
> Also, when I buy it from Dell, does it come with instructions and
everything
> I need to install and cables etc?
>
> Thanks for any help!
>
>




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Anonymous
September 21, 2004 1:44:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Back to the future. MFM, RLL & ESDI called the devices 0 & 1, too... Ben Myers

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:26:29 -0400, "Ted" <nothanks@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>
>"Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in message news:o 7Gdnb18UZNyi9LcRVn-vA@comcast.com...
>
>> "Master" and "Slave" are bad names.
>
>Which is probably why that nomenclature was abandoned starting
>with ATA-2.
>
>> "Drive X" and "Drive Y" would actually be better since they
>> don't imply a hierarchy of authority.
>
>Device 0 and Device 1 are the proper names.
>
>
>
September 21, 2004 1:44:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

I usually buy a name brand white box drive from http://www.dalco.com/ . I
then go to the maker's tech support, and read the faq on how to install a
HD in XP.

If I buy a DVD burner, I purchase a retail box Plextor drive from Dell.I
usually get a drive at a discount and with a rebate.


<ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in message
news:414f4edf.36477887@news.charter.net...
> Back to the future. MFM, RLL & ESDI called the devices 0 & 1, too... Ben
> Myers
>
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:26:29 -0400, "Ted" <nothanks@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in message
>>news:o 7Gdnb18UZNyi9LcRVn-vA@comcast.com...
>>
>>> "Master" and "Slave" are bad names.
>>
>>Which is probably why that nomenclature was abandoned starting
>>with ATA-2.
>>
>>> "Drive X" and "Drive Y" would actually be better since they
>>> don't imply a hierarchy of authority.
>>
>>Device 0 and Device 1 are the proper names.
>>
>>
>>
>
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 3:28:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

(Ben Myers) wrote:
> >> One can, of course, jumper a drive as master and connect
> >> it to the master position of a cable select cable, and the drive
> >> will operate properly as a master. Same with slave...

"Timothy Daniels" wrote:
> > The jumpering is only to differentiate the drives on the channel.
> > A drive jumpered "Master" can be put at the intermediate
> > connector, and a drive jumpered "Slave" can be put at the
> > end connector, and they will work just as well.

(Ben Myers) wrote:
>True, with the other "non-cable select" type of cable, where
> positions of the drives are irrelevant. While explicit master
> and slave jumpering may work with cable-select cables,
> it violates the standard.


My comment pertained to how Cable Select cables really
work, regardless of how they were designed to work. BTW,
I just tested my system again. Using a Cable Select-capable
cable, regardless of which positions the two hard drives
were in, the system always booted from the hard drive designated
in the BIOS' boot sequence (i.e the BIOS' boot priority list). Even
when the hard drives were both set to Cable Select mode, the
system booted from the hard drive designated in the BIOS'
boot sequence. In short, the BIOS' boot sequence *always*
determines which hard drive will boot, regardless of jumper
settings on the hard drives.



>The master and slave designations accurately depict function.
> IDE/ATAPI drives have built-in controller logic to replace the
> freestanding controllers of their similar MFM, RLL and ESDI
> predecessors. The "master" IDE drive in a two-drive setup
> interprets and executes commands on behalf of the "slave".
>There is a reason for the politically incorrect master-slave
> relationship, which is why the industry standard body which
> concocted it used the terminology that it did.


If the Master interprets and executes commands on behalf
of the Slave, aren't the functional roles actually reversed from
their names? :-)

But regardless of the channel protocol, to the USER - the guy
setting the jumpers (or not setting the jumpers) - which hard drive
boots is entirely determined by the BIOS' boot sequence and
not at all by the Master/Slave/CableSelect jumper settings on
the hard drives. Which mode and which role the hard drive
plays is entirely irrelevant as far as the user is concerned.

*TimDaniels*
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 4:54:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 23:28:29 -0700, "Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com>
wrote:
<SNIP>
> My comment pertained to how Cable Select cables really
>work, regardless of how they were designed to work. BTW,
>I just tested my system again. Using a Cable Select-capable
>cable, regardless of which positions the two hard drives
>were in, the system always booted from the hard drive designated
>in the BIOS' boot sequence (i.e the BIOS' boot priority list). Even
>when the hard drives were both set to Cable Select mode, the
>system booted from the hard drive designated in the BIOS'
>boot sequence. In short, the BIOS' boot sequence *always*
>determines which hard drive will boot, regardless of jumper
>settings on the hard drives.
>

Yes, the BIOS boot sequence determines which hard drive will boot if and only if
the BIOS setup is sophisticated enough to have to option to select boot drives.
Not all BIOSes have this sort of option. Most modern Dell and other systems
have this capability, but go back to the Pentium 3 days a short time ago and the
choices for boot sequence were much more primitive and they did not permit one
to select among hard drives on a system. Only booting from the C: drive was an
option, the C: drive being equated to the drive sensed as the IDE master.

Further, any mention of the BIOS boot sequence obscures the role of hardware
configuration, which is the thread of discussion.

>
>
>>The master and slave designations accurately depict function.
>> IDE/ATAPI drives have built-in controller logic to replace the
>> freestanding controllers of their similar MFM, RLL and ESDI
>> predecessors. The "master" IDE drive in a two-drive setup
>> interprets and executes commands on behalf of the "slave".
>>There is a reason for the politically incorrect master-slave
>> relationship, which is why the industry standard body which
>> concocted it used the terminology that it did.
>
>
> If the Master interprets and executes commands on behalf
>of the Slave, aren't the functional roles actually reversed from
>their names? :-)

Ah, but the MASTER is in control.

>
>But regardless of the channel protocol, to the USER - the guy
>setting the jumpers (or not setting the jumpers) - which hard drive
>boots is entirely determined by the BIOS' boot sequence and
>not at all by the Master/Slave/CableSelect jumper settings on
>the hard drives. Which mode and which role the hard drive
>plays is entirely irrelevant as far as the user is concerned.

Yes and no. See my comments above. But the hard drives must be jumpered
correctly or the system will not work properly. One way or another, the
master/slave zero/one relationship between drives on an IDE/ATAPI channel must
be clearly defined or else the system won't work properly, and the BIOS boot
sequence choices won't work either.... Ben Myers

>
>*TimDaniels*
>
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 5:23:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

(Ben Myers)> wrote:
> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
> <SNIP>
> > Using a Cable Select-capable
> >cable, regardless of which positions the two hard drives
> >were in, the system always booted from the hard drive designated
> >in the BIOS' boot sequence (i.e the BIOS' boot priority list). Even
> >when the hard drives were both set to Cable Select mode, the
> >system booted from the hard drive designated in the BIOS'
> >boot sequence. In short, the BIOS' boot sequence *always*
> >determines which hard drive will boot, regardless of jumper
> >settings on the hard drives.
> >
>
> Yes, the BIOS boot sequence determines which hard drive
> will boot if and only if the BIOS setup is sophisticated enough
> to have to option to select boot drives. Not all BIOSes have
> this sort of option. Most modern Dell and other systems
> have this capability,


...and this is a Dell newsgroup


> but go back to the Pentium 3 days a short time ago and
> the choices for boot sequence were much more primitive
> and they did not permit one to select among hard drives
> on a system.


My Dell Dimension, with a Pentium II and purchased in
January of 1999, has a BIOS that allows setting the
boot sequence.


> Only booting from the C: drive was an option, the C: drive
> being equated to the drive sensed as the IDE master.


My Dell's BIOS will boot from the partition designated
in the boot.ini file in the Active partition of the 1st drive
in the BIOS' boot sequence. I think in the vanilla case,
that boils down to what you said, but what you said
does not include the case involving drives on different
IDE channels - where the drive jumpered Slave may
be the "boot" drive if its channel happens to be higher
in the BIOS' boot sequence.


> Further, any mention of the BIOS boot sequence obscures
> the role of hardware configuration, which is the thread of
> discussion.


The thread of this discussion implied much more importance
to the jumper settings or cable positions than is the case.
Any functional result from "Master" or "Slave" designation is
totally overridden by the boot sequence in the BIOS - which
has been accessible AFAIK in all Dell PCs for at least 5 years.


> But the hard drives must be jumpered correctly or the
> system will not work properly. One way or another, the
> master/slave zero/one relationship between drives on
> an IDE/ATAPI channel must be clearly defined or else
> the system won't work properly, and the BIOS boot
> sequence choices won't work either....


But let us be clear that "correctly" means merely
"to differentiate them for the channel" as that is all
that the Master/Slave roles imply to the user. Which
partition on which hard drive gets loaded is determined
by the boot.ini file on the Active partition of the 1st device
in the BIOS' boot sequence. All those parameters are
available to the user to set. For example, the 3rd partition
on a drive jumpered "Slave" on another channel can
provide the booted system if the settings so indicate.
After reading "the drive that is Master is booted" so often,
too many people start to believe it. In reality, that is true
only in the very very vanilla case.

*TimDaniels*
September 23, 2004 7:32:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Does anyone else think we're over anthropomorphizing the "master" /
"slave" business regarding HDDs? After all, they aren't people and have
no rights under the US Constitution. I own several HDDs and *I* decide
who's master & who's slave!

;) 
!