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software rip-off and support headaches

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Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 21, 2004 10:20:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

I purchased a laptop and opted to inlcude MS Office 2003 with the purchase.
Installed it on the laptop, then bought a desktop and decided I would rather
put MS Office on the desktop and run something else on my laptop. So I removed
it from the laptop and installed it on the desktop, but MS refused to
"activate" the new installation, giving me a message that said I had already
activated it once. MS support simply told me the software ID was invalid and
that in any event Dell was responsible for supporting the software. I called
Dell and explained I had been unable to activate the second installation
becasue I was only allowed one activation, and the software support person was
not capable of understanding what had happened. Spent an hour having me
uninstall and re-install, all the while m telling her that nothing she had me
doing would change anything at the MS web site where as far as they are
concerned my activations were used up. Then after all was done she assured me
the activation had been successful (NOT), before finally agreeing to forward me
to a tech support person who would know how to help. Had to wait another 15
minutes for the next person, who was very nice but simply put me on hold while
she went to the MS web site and found that what was happeneing is consistent
with their OEM license, nothing Dell could or would do and I would just have to
buy another copy. Turns out that the license with the OEM software says it is
not transferable to another computer. I did not appreciate this when I first
loaded it.

I tried for another hour to reach someone in customer service at Dell who might
be able to get me some relief. No luck.

Between dropped calls, long waits, constant recorded reminders to use the
online support (which I had tried but there was no canned answer to my problem
and the chat lines were unavailable), I was on the phone for three hours, half
the time on hold and most of the rest of the time with someone who did not seem
to hear me half the time ("Sir, you should know that you can get support on
Dell's web site"//"I know that and have looked there but there is no answer to
my problem"//"I will give you the web site address"//"I know the web site
address - I have visited there many times"//"Are you ready to write it
down?"//"I do not need to write it down, I already have it"//"Let me know when
you are ready and I will read it to you."//"big sigh") then after I said
something several times and she finally acknowledged hearing me, she showed no
ability to understand what I was saying and after we got over that hurdle and
she understood, no common sense whatsoever in solving the problem. Very
frustrating.

What I learned from the experience was (1) read the software license carefully,
(2) do NOT buy software from Dell - the slight discount (if any) is definitely
not worth the constraints on use and the lack of support from the software
manufacturer, and (3) Dell support is a shadow of its former self. It has
always been a reason to buy Dell, now if my next system is Dell it will be
despite Dell support, not because of it.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 21, 2004 10:51:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Crsr111" <crsr111@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040921022041.04966.00003939@mb-m24.aol.com...
>I purchased a laptop and opted to inlcude MS Office 2003 with the purchase.
> Installed it on the laptop, then bought a desktop and decided I would
> rather
> put MS Office on the desktop and run something else on my laptop. So I
> removed
> it from the laptop and installed it on the desktop, but MS refused to
> "activate" the new installation, giving me a message that said I had
> already
> activated it once. MS support simply told me the software ID was invalid
> and
> that in any event Dell was responsible for supporting the software. I
> called
> Dell and explained I had been unable to activate the second installation
> becasue I was only allowed one activation, and the software support person
> was
> not capable of understanding what had happened. Spent an hour having me
> uninstall and re-install, all the while m telling her that nothing she had
> me
> doing would change anything at the MS web site where as far as they are
> concerned my activations were used up. Then after all was done she
> assured me
> the activation had been successful (NOT), before finally agreeing to
> forward me
> to a tech support person who would know how to help. Had to wait another
> 15
> minutes for the next person, who was very nice but simply put me on hold
> while
> she went to the MS web site and found that what was happeneing is
> consistent
> with their OEM license, nothing Dell could or would do and I would just
> have to
> buy another copy. Turns out that the license with the OEM software says
> it is
> not transferable to another computer. I did not appreciate this when I
> first
> loaded it.
>
> I tried for another hour to reach someone in customer service at Dell who
> might
> be able to get me some relief. No luck.
>
> Between dropped calls, long waits, constant recorded reminders to use the
> online support (which I had tried but there was no canned answer to my
> problem
> and the chat lines were unavailable), I was on the phone for three hours,
> half
> the time on hold and most of the rest of the time with someone who did not
> seem
> to hear me half the time ("Sir, you should know that you can get support
> on
> Dell's web site"//"I know that and have looked there but there is no
> answer to
> my problem"//"I will give you the web site address"//"I know the web site
> address - I have visited there many times"//"Are you ready to write it
> down?"//"I do not need to write it down, I already have it"//"Let me know
> when
> you are ready and I will read it to you."//"big sigh") then after I said
> something several times and she finally acknowledged hearing me, she
> showed no
> ability to understand what I was saying and after we got over that hurdle
> and
> she understood, no common sense whatsoever in solving the problem. Very
> frustrating.
>
> What I learned from the experience was (1) read the software license
> carefully,
> (2) do NOT buy software from Dell - the slight discount (if any) is
> definitely
> not worth the constraints on use and the lack of support from the software
> manufacturer, and (3) Dell support is a shadow of its former self. It has
> always been a reason to buy Dell, now if my next system is Dell it will be
> despite Dell support, not because of it.
>
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 21, 2004 11:07:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"What I learned from the experience was...

....(1) read the software license carefully..."
A well-known lesson; too bad you learned it the hard way.

"...(2) do NOT buy software from Dell - the slight discount (if any) is
definitely not worth the constraints on use and the lack of support from the
software manufacturer,..."
You mean 'don't buy OEM versions of software.' All OEMs sign the same
support agreement with Microsoft. Many here would disagree, since OEM
software can be much less expensive than retail software. If you need an
instruction manual and support, don't buy OEM software.

"...and (3) Dell support is a shadow of its former self."

Dell - like other OEMs - is in the hardware business. Don't expect anything
more than rudimentary software support from an OEM.

Hopefully, you have learned from this experience to be prepared and not to
blame others for your lack of preparation. And please, spare us the feature
length rants. Only the snivelers and whiners in this group like to see that.

Ted Zieglar


"Crsr111" <crsr111@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040921022041.04966.00003939@mb-m24.aol.com...
>I purchased a laptop and opted to inlcude MS Office 2003 with the purchase.
> Installed it on the laptop, then bought a desktop and decided I would
> rather
> put MS Office on the desktop and run something else on my laptop. So I
> removed
> it from the laptop and installed it on the desktop, but MS refused to
> "activate" the new installation, giving me a message that said I had
> already
> activated it once. MS support simply told me the software ID was invalid
> and
> that in any event Dell was responsible for supporting the software. I
> called
> Dell and explained I had been unable to activate the second installation
> becasue I was only allowed one activation, and the software support person
> was
> not capable of understanding what had happened. Spent an hour having me
> uninstall and re-install, all the while m telling her that nothing she had
> me
> doing would change anything at the MS web site where as far as they are
> concerned my activations were used up. Then after all was done she
> assured me
> the activation had been successful (NOT), before finally agreeing to
> forward me
> to a tech support person who would know how to help. Had to wait another
> 15
> minutes for the next person, who was very nice but simply put me on hold
> while
> she went to the MS web site and found that what was happeneing is
> consistent
> with their OEM license, nothing Dell could or would do and I would just
> have to
> buy another copy. Turns out that the license with the OEM software says
> it is
> not transferable to another computer. I did not appreciate this when I
> first
> loaded it.
>
> I tried for another hour to reach someone in customer service at Dell who
> might
> be able to get me some relief. No luck.
>
> Between dropped calls, long waits, constant recorded reminders to use the
> online support (which I had tried but there was no canned answer to my
> problem
> and the chat lines were unavailable), I was on the phone for three hours,
> half
> the time on hold and most of the rest of the time with someone who did not
> seem
> to hear me half the time ("Sir, you should know that you can get support
> on
> Dell's web site"//"I know that and have looked there but there is no
> answer to
> my problem"//"I will give you the web site address"//"I know the web site
> address - I have visited there many times"//"Are you ready to write it
> down?"//"I do not need to write it down, I already have it"//"Let me know
> when
> you are ready and I will read it to you."//"big sigh") then after I said
> something several times and she finally acknowledged hearing me, she
> showed no
> ability to understand what I was saying and after we got over that hurdle
> and
> she understood, no common sense whatsoever in solving the problem. Very
> frustrating.
>
> What I learned from the experience was (1) read the software license
> carefully,
> (2) do NOT buy software from Dell - the slight discount (if any) is
> definitely
> not worth the constraints on use and the lack of support from the software
> manufacturer, and (3) Dell support is a shadow of its former self. It has
> always been a reason to buy Dell, now if my next system is Dell it will be
> despite Dell support, not because of it.
>
>
Related resources
Can't find your answer ? Ask !
September 21, 2004 11:42:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

?

OEM means Original Equiment Manufacurer - This has nothing to do with
Dell - blame Microsoft. Software came with Dell machine, that is all you can
run it on.

Why do you need support for this? Its not even their computer you are trying
to install software on.

OEM software is ALWAYS much cheaper than retail, so despite your rantings,
if you want the software, this is the best time to purchase (at least OEM
software) bearing in mind its intended use is for purchased hardware ONLY.

Read the purchase agreement next time.




"Crsr111" <crsr111@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040921022041.04966.00003939@mb-m24.aol.com...
>I purchased a laptop and opted to inlcude MS Office 2003 with the purchase.
> Installed it on the laptop, then bought a desktop and decided I would
> rather
> put MS Office on the desktop and run something else on my laptop. So I
> removed
> it from the laptop and installed it on the desktop, but MS refused to
> "activate" the new installation, giving me a message that said I had
> already
> activated it once. MS support simply told me the software ID was invalid
> and
> that in any event Dell was responsible for supporting the software. I
> called
> Dell and explained I had been unable to activate the second installation
> becasue I was only allowed one activation, and the software support person
> was
> not capable of understanding what had happened. Spent an hour having me
> uninstall and re-install, all the while m telling her that nothing she had
> me
> doing would change anything at the MS web site where as far as they are
> concerned my activations were used up. Then after all was done she
> assured me
> the activation had been successful (NOT), before finally agreeing to
> forward me
> to a tech support person who would know how to help. Had to wait another
> 15
> minutes for the next person, who was very nice but simply put me on hold
> while
> she went to the MS web site and found that what was happeneing is
> consistent
> with their OEM license, nothing Dell could or would do and I would just
> have to
> buy another copy. Turns out that the license with the OEM software says
> it is
> not transferable to another computer. I did not appreciate this when I
> first
> loaded it.
>
> I tried for another hour to reach someone in customer service at Dell who
> might
> be able to get me some relief. No luck.
>
> Between dropped calls, long waits, constant recorded reminders to use the
> online support (which I had tried but there was no canned answer to my
> problem
> and the chat lines were unavailable), I was on the phone for three hours,
> half
> the time on hold and most of the rest of the time with someone who did not
> seem
> to hear me half the time ("Sir, you should know that you can get support
> on
> Dell's web site"//"I know that and have looked there but there is no
> answer to
> my problem"//"I will give you the web site address"//"I know the web site
> address - I have visited there many times"//"Are you ready to write it
> down?"//"I do not need to write it down, I already have it"//"Let me know
> when
> you are ready and I will read it to you."//"big sigh") then after I said
> something several times and she finally acknowledged hearing me, she
> showed no
> ability to understand what I was saying and after we got over that hurdle
> and
> she understood, no common sense whatsoever in solving the problem. Very
> frustrating.
>
> What I learned from the experience was (1) read the software license
> carefully,
> (2) do NOT buy software from Dell - the slight discount (if any) is
> definitely
> not worth the constraints on use and the lack of support from the software
> manufacturer, and (3) Dell support is a shadow of its former self. It has
> always been a reason to buy Dell, now if my next system is Dell it will be
> despite Dell support, not because of it.
>
>
September 21, 2004 3:13:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Dell and Microsoft should let the consumer know the true price of an OEM
product. Is software buying coming down to car buying? Are we as consumers
always going to be taken for a ride? The bottom line is profit, not consumer
awareness.

"Crsr111" <crsr111@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040921022041.04966.00003939@mb-m24.aol.com...
>I purchased a laptop and opted to inlcude MS Office 2003 with the purchase.
> Installed it on the laptop, then bought a desktop and decided I would
> rather
> put MS Office on the desktop and run something else on my laptop. So I
> removed
> it from the laptop and installed it on the desktop, but MS refused to
> "activate" the new installation, giving me a message that said I had
> already
> activated it once. MS support simply told me the software ID was invalid
> and
> that in any event Dell was responsible for supporting the software. I
> called
> Dell and explained I had been unable to activate the second installation
> becasue I was only allowed one activation, and the software support person
> was
> not capable of understanding what had happened. Spent an hour having me
> uninstall and re-install, all the while m telling her that nothing she had
> me
> doing would change anything at the MS web site where as far as they are
> concerned my activations were used up. Then after all was done she
> assured me
> the activation had been successful (NOT), before finally agreeing to
> forward me
> to a tech support person who would know how to help. Had to wait another
> 15
> minutes for the next person, who was very nice but simply put me on hold
> while
> she went to the MS web site and found that what was happeneing is
> consistent
> with their OEM license, nothing Dell could or would do and I would just
> have to
> buy another copy. Turns out that the license with the OEM software says
> it is
> not transferable to another computer. I did not appreciate this when I
> first
> loaded it.
>
> I tried for another hour to reach someone in customer service at Dell who
> might
> be able to get me some relief. No luck.
>
> Between dropped calls, long waits, constant recorded reminders to use the
> online support (which I had tried but there was no canned answer to my
> problem
> and the chat lines were unavailable), I was on the phone for three hours,
> half
> the time on hold and most of the rest of the time with someone who did not
> seem
> to hear me half the time ("Sir, you should know that you can get support
> on
> Dell's web site"//"I know that and have looked there but there is no
> answer to
> my problem"//"I will give you the web site address"//"I know the web site
> address - I have visited there many times"//"Are you ready to write it
> down?"//"I do not need to write it down, I already have it"//"Let me know
> when
> you are ready and I will read it to you."//"big sigh") then after I said
> something several times and she finally acknowledged hearing me, she
> showed no
> ability to understand what I was saying and after we got over that hurdle
> and
> she understood, no common sense whatsoever in solving the problem. Very
> frustrating.
>
> What I learned from the experience was (1) read the software license
> carefully,
> (2) do NOT buy software from Dell - the slight discount (if any) is
> definitely
> not worth the constraints on use and the lack of support from the software
> manufacturer, and (3) Dell support is a shadow of its former self. It has
> always been a reason to buy Dell, now if my next system is Dell it will be
> despite Dell support, not because of it.
>
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 21, 2004 3:46:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Do you expect the computer industry to be different from any other? For
better or worse, businesses are out to make a profit. Consumers have to
prepare and exercise caution when buying a computer as they do when buying a
car or anything else. Consumers who do not prepare or exercise caution will
be unhappy with their cars, computers, toasters, refrigerators...
--
Ted Zieglar

"Molly" <ctalia4000@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4P-dnS9GNMqs2M3cRVn-rw@comcast.com...
> Dell and Microsoft should let the consumer know the true price of an OEM
> product. Is software buying coming down to car buying? Are we as consumers
> always going to be taken for a ride? The bottom line is profit, not
consumer
> awareness.
>
> "Crsr111" <crsr111@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040921022041.04966.00003939@mb-m24.aol.com...
> >I purchased a laptop and opted to inlcude MS Office 2003 with the
purchase.
> > Installed it on the laptop, then bought a desktop and decided I would
> > rather
> > put MS Office on the desktop and run something else on my laptop. So I
> > removed
> > it from the laptop and installed it on the desktop, but MS refused to
> > "activate" the new installation, giving me a message that said I had
> > already
> > activated it once. MS support simply told me the software ID was
invalid
> > and
> > that in any event Dell was responsible for supporting the software. I
> > called
> > Dell and explained I had been unable to activate the second installation
> > becasue I was only allowed one activation, and the software support
person
> > was
> > not capable of understanding what had happened. Spent an hour having me
> > uninstall and re-install, all the while m telling her that nothing she
had
> > me
> > doing would change anything at the MS web site where as far as they are
> > concerned my activations were used up. Then after all was done she
> > assured me
> > the activation had been successful (NOT), before finally agreeing to
> > forward me
> > to a tech support person who would know how to help. Had to wait
another
> > 15
> > minutes for the next person, who was very nice but simply put me on hold
> > while
> > she went to the MS web site and found that what was happeneing is
> > consistent
> > with their OEM license, nothing Dell could or would do and I would just
> > have to
> > buy another copy. Turns out that the license with the OEM software says
> > it is
> > not transferable to another computer. I did not appreciate this when I
> > first
> > loaded it.
> >
> > I tried for another hour to reach someone in customer service at Dell
who
> > might
> > be able to get me some relief. No luck.
> >
> > Between dropped calls, long waits, constant recorded reminders to use
the
> > online support (which I had tried but there was no canned answer to my
> > problem
> > and the chat lines were unavailable), I was on the phone for three
hours,
> > half
> > the time on hold and most of the rest of the time with someone who did
not
> > seem
> > to hear me half the time ("Sir, you should know that you can get support
> > on
> > Dell's web site"//"I know that and have looked there but there is no
> > answer to
> > my problem"//"I will give you the web site address"//"I know the web
site
> > address - I have visited there many times"//"Are you ready to write it
> > down?"//"I do not need to write it down, I already have it"//"Let me
know
> > when
> > you are ready and I will read it to you."//"big sigh") then after I said
> > something several times and she finally acknowledged hearing me, she
> > showed no
> > ability to understand what I was saying and after we got over that
hurdle
> > and
> > she understood, no common sense whatsoever in solving the problem. Very
> > frustrating.
> >
> > What I learned from the experience was (1) read the software license
> > carefully,
> > (2) do NOT buy software from Dell - the slight discount (if any) is
> > definitely
> > not worth the constraints on use and the lack of support from the
software
> > manufacturer, and (3) Dell support is a shadow of its former self. It
has
> > always been a reason to buy Dell, now if my next system is Dell it will
be
> > despite Dell support, not because of it.
> >
> >
>
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 21, 2004 4:59:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

I agree with the points made here. For the following reasons, I am at least
mildly sympathetic with the plight of the original poster.

One comment on the sad state of software licensing. Read Ed Foster's Gripelog,
an on-line running commentary about software licenses. His major recurring
theme is that it has become tremendously difficult to even get a copy of a
software licensing agreement to read BEFORE ponying up the $$ for the software.
Can you read Dell's licensing agreement for Office before you buy?

One more comment. As I have found in dealing with one of my clients who got
Office XPee pre-installed when she bought a new Dell notebook, Dell does NOT
supply you with a copy of the Office CD. If the hard disk is hosed, you have
lost your copy of Office and have to pay for another. The hard disk on her
system was dying an early death, and I was able to clone 99.99% of the data and
programs onto a Dell-supplied replacement hard disk (under warranty) before the
disk croaked. (Incidentally, I had to recreate all the desktop icons for Office
after cloning the drive. Is this a coincidence, or did the disk sectors
containing the icons all just happen to go bad?) Dell does not exactly go out
of its way to tell you that you do not get a copy of the Office CD in its ads
and other collateral materials.

So, yes. The clear advice to all. Don't fall for the apparently cheap price of
Office pre-installed on a Dell. Go buy a copy in your local retail store
instead. You get what you pay for... Ben Myers

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 07:07:34 -0400, "Ted Zieglar" <teddyz@notmail.com> wrote:

>"What I learned from the experience was...
>
>...(1) read the software license carefully..."
>A well-known lesson; too bad you learned it the hard way.
>
>"...(2) do NOT buy software from Dell - the slight discount (if any) is
>definitely not worth the constraints on use and the lack of support from the
>software manufacturer,..."
>You mean 'don't buy OEM versions of software.' All OEMs sign the same
>support agreement with Microsoft. Many here would disagree, since OEM
>software can be much less expensive than retail software. If you need an
>instruction manual and support, don't buy OEM software.
>
>"...and (3) Dell support is a shadow of its former self."
>
>Dell - like other OEMs - is in the hardware business. Don't expect anything
>more than rudimentary software support from an OEM.
>
>Hopefully, you have learned from this experience to be prepared and not to
>blame others for your lack of preparation. And please, spare us the feature
>length rants. Only the snivelers and whiners in this group like to see that.
>
>Ted Zieglar
>
>
>"Crsr111" <crsr111@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20040921022041.04966.00003939@mb-m24.aol.com...
>>I purchased a laptop and opted to inlcude MS Office 2003 with the purchase.
>> Installed it on the laptop, then bought a desktop and decided I would
>> rather
>> put MS Office on the desktop and run something else on my laptop. So I
>> removed
>> it from the laptop and installed it on the desktop, but MS refused to
>> "activate" the new installation, giving me a message that said I had
>> already
>> activated it once. MS support simply told me the software ID was invalid
>> and
>> that in any event Dell was responsible for supporting the software. I
>> called
>> Dell and explained I had been unable to activate the second installation
>> becasue I was only allowed one activation, and the software support person
>> was
>> not capable of understanding what had happened. Spent an hour having me
>> uninstall and re-install, all the while m telling her that nothing she had
>> me
>> doing would change anything at the MS web site where as far as they are
>> concerned my activations were used up. Then after all was done she
>> assured me
>> the activation had been successful (NOT), before finally agreeing to
>> forward me
>> to a tech support person who would know how to help. Had to wait another
>> 15
>> minutes for the next person, who was very nice but simply put me on hold
>> while
>> she went to the MS web site and found that what was happeneing is
>> consistent
>> with their OEM license, nothing Dell could or would do and I would just
>> have to
>> buy another copy. Turns out that the license with the OEM software says
>> it is
>> not transferable to another computer. I did not appreciate this when I
>> first
>> loaded it.
>>
>> I tried for another hour to reach someone in customer service at Dell who
>> might
>> be able to get me some relief. No luck.
>>
>> Between dropped calls, long waits, constant recorded reminders to use the
>> online support (which I had tried but there was no canned answer to my
>> problem
>> and the chat lines were unavailable), I was on the phone for three hours,
>> half
>> the time on hold and most of the rest of the time with someone who did not
>> seem
>> to hear me half the time ("Sir, you should know that you can get support
>> on
>> Dell's web site"//"I know that and have looked there but there is no
>> answer to
>> my problem"//"I will give you the web site address"//"I know the web site
>> address - I have visited there many times"//"Are you ready to write it
>> down?"//"I do not need to write it down, I already have it"//"Let me know
>> when
>> you are ready and I will read it to you."//"big sigh") then after I said
>> something several times and she finally acknowledged hearing me, she
>> showed no
>> ability to understand what I was saying and after we got over that hurdle
>> and
>> she understood, no common sense whatsoever in solving the problem. Very
>> frustrating.
>>
>> What I learned from the experience was (1) read the software license
>> carefully,
>> (2) do NOT buy software from Dell - the slight discount (if any) is
>> definitely
>> not worth the constraints on use and the lack of support from the software
>> manufacturer, and (3) Dell support is a shadow of its former self. It has
>> always been a reason to buy Dell, now if my next system is Dell it will be
>> despite Dell support, not because of it.
>>
>>
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 21, 2004 4:59:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Ben,

I believe there is a new option on several of the Dell systems which allows
you to request the media. In anyevent I have never received a Dell without
the full media set so this, if true, has to be a new thing.

On the software licensing issue, I've always disagreed with the concept of
software being tied to a particular PC. But this is one of the draw backs
to discounted software bundled with new PC. Right or wrong MS (and other
software companies) recoup their loss (discount) by forcing the end user to
purchase another copy of the software at retail prices. Frankly, I think
software in general cost way too much, but having been in the software
development end of the deal, it also cost the software companies way too
much to produce the software. High salaries, poor management, buggy
products, unrealistic goals and schedule, all take their toll which is
passed onto the consumer.

--

Rob


<ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in message
news:4150234c.977684@news.charter.net...
>I agree with the points made here. For the following reasons, I am at
>least
> mildly sympathetic with the plight of the original poster.
>
> One comment on the sad state of software licensing. Read Ed Foster's
> Gripelog,
> an on-line running commentary about software licenses. His major
> recurring
> theme is that it has become tremendously difficult to even get a copy of a
> software licensing agreement to read BEFORE ponying up the $$ for the
> software.
> Can you read Dell's licensing agreement for Office before you buy?
>
> One more comment. As I have found in dealing with one of my clients who
> got
> Office XPee pre-installed when she bought a new Dell notebook, Dell does
> NOT
> supply you with a copy of the Office CD. If the hard disk is hosed, you
> have
> lost your copy of Office and have to pay for another. The hard disk on
> her
> system was dying an early death, and I was able to clone 99.99% of the
> data and
> programs onto a Dell-supplied replacement hard disk (under warranty)
> before the
> disk croaked. (Incidentally, I had to recreate all the desktop icons for
> Office
> after cloning the drive. Is this a coincidence, or did the disk sectors
> containing the icons all just happen to go bad?) Dell does not exactly go
> out
> of its way to tell you that you do not get a copy of the Office CD in its
> ads
> and other collateral materials.
>
> So, yes. The clear advice to all. Don't fall for the apparently cheap
> price of
> Office pre-installed on a Dell. Go buy a copy in your local retail store
> instead. You get what you pay for... Ben Myers
>
> On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 07:07:34 -0400, "Ted Zieglar" <teddyz@notmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>"What I learned from the experience was...
>>
>>...(1) read the software license carefully..."
>>A well-known lesson; too bad you learned it the hard way.
>>
>>"...(2) do NOT buy software from Dell - the slight discount (if any) is
>>definitely not worth the constraints on use and the lack of support from
>>the
>>software manufacturer,..."
>>You mean 'don't buy OEM versions of software.' All OEMs sign the same
>>support agreement with Microsoft. Many here would disagree, since OEM
>>software can be much less expensive than retail software. If you need an
>>instruction manual and support, don't buy OEM software.
>>
>>"...and (3) Dell support is a shadow of its former self."
>>
>>Dell - like other OEMs - is in the hardware business. Don't expect
>>anything
>>more than rudimentary software support from an OEM.
>>
>>Hopefully, you have learned from this experience to be prepared and not to
>>blame others for your lack of preparation. And please, spare us the
>>feature
>>length rants. Only the snivelers and whiners in this group like to see
>>that.
>>
>>Ted Zieglar
>>
>>
>>"Crsr111" <crsr111@aol.com> wrote in message
>>news:20040921022041.04966.00003939@mb-m24.aol.com...
>>>I purchased a laptop and opted to inlcude MS Office 2003 with the
>>>purchase.
>>> Installed it on the laptop, then bought a desktop and decided I would
>>> rather
>>> put MS Office on the desktop and run something else on my laptop. So I
>>> removed
>>> it from the laptop and installed it on the desktop, but MS refused to
>>> "activate" the new installation, giving me a message that said I had
>>> already
>>> activated it once. MS support simply told me the software ID was
>>> invalid
>>> and
>>> that in any event Dell was responsible for supporting the software. I
>>> called
>>> Dell and explained I had been unable to activate the second installation
>>> becasue I was only allowed one activation, and the software support
>>> person
>>> was
>>> not capable of understanding what had happened. Spent an hour having me
>>> uninstall and re-install, all the while m telling her that nothing she
>>> had
>>> me
>>> doing would change anything at the MS web site where as far as they are
>>> concerned my activations were used up. Then after all was done she
>>> assured me
>>> the activation had been successful (NOT), before finally agreeing to
>>> forward me
>>> to a tech support person who would know how to help. Had to wait
>>> another
>>> 15
>>> minutes for the next person, who was very nice but simply put me on hold
>>> while
>>> she went to the MS web site and found that what was happeneing is
>>> consistent
>>> with their OEM license, nothing Dell could or would do and I would just
>>> have to
>>> buy another copy. Turns out that the license with the OEM software says
>>> it is
>>> not transferable to another computer. I did not appreciate this when I
>>> first
>>> loaded it.
>>>
>>> I tried for another hour to reach someone in customer service at Dell
>>> who
>>> might
>>> be able to get me some relief. No luck.
>>>
>>> Between dropped calls, long waits, constant recorded reminders to use
>>> the
>>> online support (which I had tried but there was no canned answer to my
>>> problem
>>> and the chat lines were unavailable), I was on the phone for three
>>> hours,
>>> half
>>> the time on hold and most of the rest of the time with someone who did
>>> not
>>> seem
>>> to hear me half the time ("Sir, you should know that you can get support
>>> on
>>> Dell's web site"//"I know that and have looked there but there is no
>>> answer to
>>> my problem"//"I will give you the web site address"//"I know the web
>>> site
>>> address - I have visited there many times"//"Are you ready to write it
>>> down?"//"I do not need to write it down, I already have it"//"Let me
>>> know
>>> when
>>> you are ready and I will read it to you."//"big sigh") then after I said
>>> something several times and she finally acknowledged hearing me, she
>>> showed no
>>> ability to understand what I was saying and after we got over that
>>> hurdle
>>> and
>>> she understood, no common sense whatsoever in solving the problem. Very
>>> frustrating.
>>>
>>> What I learned from the experience was (1) read the software license
>>> carefully,
>>> (2) do NOT buy software from Dell - the slight discount (if any) is
>>> definitely
>>> not worth the constraints on use and the lack of support from the
>>> software
>>> manufacturer, and (3) Dell support is a shadow of its former self. It
>>> has
>>> always been a reason to buy Dell, now if my next system is Dell it will
>>> be
>>> despite Dell support, not because of it.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 21, 2004 4:59:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

My two copies of OEM Office XP that I purchased with Dell computers both
came with Office CDs.

Tom
<ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in message
news:4150234c.977684@news.charter.net...
>I agree with the points made here. For the following reasons, I am at
>least
> mildly sympathetic with the plight of the original poster.
>
> One comment on the sad state of software licensing. Read Ed Foster's
> Gripelog,
> an on-line running commentary about software licenses. His major
> recurring
> theme is that it has become tremendously difficult to even get a copy of a
> software licensing agreement to read BEFORE ponying up the $$ for the
> software.
> Can you read Dell's licensing agreement for Office before you buy?
>
> One more comment. As I have found in dealing with one of my clients who
> got
> Office XPee pre-installed when she bought a new Dell notebook, Dell does
> NOT
> supply you with a copy of the Office CD. If the hard disk is hosed, you
> have
> lost your copy of Office and have to pay for another. The hard disk on
> her
> system was dying an early death, and I was able to clone 99.99% of the
> data and
> programs onto a Dell-supplied replacement hard disk (under warranty)
> before the
> disk croaked. (Incidentally, I had to recreate all the desktop icons for
> Office
> after cloning the drive. Is this a coincidence, or did the disk sectors
> containing the icons all just happen to go bad?) Dell does not exactly go
> out
> of its way to tell you that you do not get a copy of the Office CD in its
> ads
> and other collateral materials.
>
> So, yes. The clear advice to all. Don't fall for the apparently cheap
> price of
> Office pre-installed on a Dell. Go buy a copy in your local retail store
> instead. You get what you pay for... Ben Myers
>
> On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 07:07:34 -0400, "Ted Zieglar" <teddyz@notmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>"What I learned from the experience was...
>>
>>...(1) read the software license carefully..."
>>A well-known lesson; too bad you learned it the hard way.
>>
>>"...(2) do NOT buy software from Dell - the slight discount (if any) is
>>definitely not worth the constraints on use and the lack of support from
>>the
>>software manufacturer,..."
>>You mean 'don't buy OEM versions of software.' All OEMs sign the same
>>support agreement with Microsoft. Many here would disagree, since OEM
>>software can be much less expensive than retail software. If you need an
>>instruction manual and support, don't buy OEM software.
>>
>>"...and (3) Dell support is a shadow of its former self."
>>
>>Dell - like other OEMs - is in the hardware business. Don't expect
>>anything
>>more than rudimentary software support from an OEM.
>>
>>Hopefully, you have learned from this experience to be prepared and not to
>>blame others for your lack of preparation. And please, spare us the
>>feature
>>length rants. Only the snivelers and whiners in this group like to see
>>that.
>>
>>Ted Zieglar
>>
>>
>>"Crsr111" <crsr111@aol.com> wrote in message
>>news:20040921022041.04966.00003939@mb-m24.aol.com...
>>>I purchased a laptop and opted to inlcude MS Office 2003 with the
>>>purchase.
>>> Installed it on the laptop, then bought a desktop and decided I would
>>> rather
>>> put MS Office on the desktop and run something else on my laptop. So I
>>> removed
>>> it from the laptop and installed it on the desktop, but MS refused to
>>> "activate" the new installation, giving me a message that said I had
>>> already
>>> activated it once. MS support simply told me the software ID was
>>> invalid
>>> and
>>> that in any event Dell was responsible for supporting the software. I
>>> called
>>> Dell and explained I had been unable to activate the second installation
>>> becasue I was only allowed one activation, and the software support
>>> person
>>> was
>>> not capable of understanding what had happened. Spent an hour having me
>>> uninstall and re-install, all the while m telling her that nothing she
>>> had
>>> me
>>> doing would change anything at the MS web site where as far as they are
>>> concerned my activations were used up. Then after all was done she
>>> assured me
>>> the activation had been successful (NOT), before finally agreeing to
>>> forward me
>>> to a tech support person who would know how to help. Had to wait
>>> another
>>> 15
>>> minutes for the next person, who was very nice but simply put me on hold
>>> while
>>> she went to the MS web site and found that what was happeneing is
>>> consistent
>>> with their OEM license, nothing Dell could or would do and I would just
>>> have to
>>> buy another copy. Turns out that the license with the OEM software says
>>> it is
>>> not transferable to another computer. I did not appreciate this when I
>>> first
>>> loaded it.
>>>
>>> I tried for another hour to reach someone in customer service at Dell
>>> who
>>> might
>>> be able to get me some relief. No luck.
>>>
>>> Between dropped calls, long waits, constant recorded reminders to use
>>> the
>>> online support (which I had tried but there was no canned answer to my
>>> problem
>>> and the chat lines were unavailable), I was on the phone for three
>>> hours,
>>> half
>>> the time on hold and most of the rest of the time with someone who did
>>> not
>>> seem
>>> to hear me half the time ("Sir, you should know that you can get support
>>> on
>>> Dell's web site"//"I know that and have looked there but there is no
>>> answer to
>>> my problem"//"I will give you the web site address"//"I know the web
>>> site
>>> address - I have visited there many times"//"Are you ready to write it
>>> down?"//"I do not need to write it down, I already have it"//"Let me
>>> know
>>> when
>>> you are ready and I will read it to you."//"big sigh") then after I said
>>> something several times and she finally acknowledged hearing me, she
>>> showed no
>>> ability to understand what I was saying and after we got over that
>>> hurdle
>>> and
>>> she understood, no common sense whatsoever in solving the problem. Very
>>> frustrating.
>>>
>>> What I learned from the experience was (1) read the software license
>>> carefully,
>>> (2) do NOT buy software from Dell - the slight discount (if any) is
>>> definitely
>>> not worth the constraints on use and the lack of support from the
>>> software
>>> manufacturer, and (3) Dell support is a shadow of its former self. It
>>> has
>>> always been a reason to buy Dell, now if my next system is Dell it will
>>> be
>>> despite Dell support, not because of it.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 21, 2004 6:31:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

all true. i have always felt that the licenses which say the software is
intended only for use with the 'computer' is horribly unclear. do they mean
the cpu, the box, the hard disk.... and if you change out any one of those
components do you have to remove the software or install it with the cpu
used in another machine.... i think the intention is to get the consumer
thinking in terms of a single installation and not pirating software. i
know that microsoft xp software (windows and office) all require activation
but i have never had them tell me that they are not willing to provide an
activation code. the first time it will activate automatically over the
internet. subsequent activations require you to call them (and i once had
to in reloading a problematic machine twice in the same day). annoying but
not exactly difficult. i appreciate that it helps microsoft at least
determine how many people are reusing the same serial number, which they can
use to guestimate how much piracy is going on. i have heard of some serial
numbers being blacklisted, like those found on the web by people who post
them in some sort of protest against microsoft... but i have never heard of
microsoft denying to provide activation codes. i get the impression that
the op simply didn't follow the directions regarding activation that have
popped up on his screen... according to him he called 'ms support' who has
no interest in 'supporting' his oem purchased software. instead he needs to
call the ms 'activation' line as listed on his screen when on-line
activation fails.

"Robert R Kircher, Jr." <rrkircher@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:R6edne5wk7PRss3cRVn-gg@giganews.com...
> Ben,
>
> I believe there is a new option on several of the Dell systems which
allows
> you to request the media. In anyevent I have never received a Dell
without
> the full media set so this, if true, has to be a new thing.
>
> On the software licensing issue, I've always disagreed with the concept of
> software being tied to a particular PC. But this is one of the draw backs
> to discounted software bundled with new PC. Right or wrong MS (and other
> software companies) recoup their loss (discount) by forcing the end user
to
> purchase another copy of the software at retail prices. Frankly, I think
> software in general cost way too much, but having been in the software
> development end of the deal, it also cost the software companies way too
> much to produce the software. High salaries, poor management, buggy
> products, unrealistic goals and schedule, all take their toll which is
> passed onto the consumer.
>
> --
>
> Rob
>
>
> <ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in message
> news:4150234c.977684@news.charter.net...
> >I agree with the points made here. For the following reasons, I am at
> >least
> > mildly sympathetic with the plight of the original poster.
> >
> > One comment on the sad state of software licensing. Read Ed Foster's
> > Gripelog,
> > an on-line running commentary about software licenses. His major
> > recurring
> > theme is that it has become tremendously difficult to even get a copy of
a
> > software licensing agreement to read BEFORE ponying up the $$ for the
> > software.
> > Can you read Dell's licensing agreement for Office before you buy?
> >
> > One more comment. As I have found in dealing with one of my clients who
> > got
> > Office XPee pre-installed when she bought a new Dell notebook, Dell does
> > NOT
> > supply you with a copy of the Office CD. If the hard disk is hosed, you
> > have
> > lost your copy of Office and have to pay for another. The hard disk on
> > her
> > system was dying an early death, and I was able to clone 99.99% of the
> > data and
> > programs onto a Dell-supplied replacement hard disk (under warranty)
> > before the
> > disk croaked. (Incidentally, I had to recreate all the desktop icons
for
> > Office
> > after cloning the drive. Is this a coincidence, or did the disk sectors
> > containing the icons all just happen to go bad?) Dell does not exactly
go
> > out
> > of its way to tell you that you do not get a copy of the Office CD in
its
> > ads
> > and other collateral materials.
> >
> > So, yes. The clear advice to all. Don't fall for the apparently cheap
> > price of
> > Office pre-installed on a Dell. Go buy a copy in your local retail
store
> > instead. You get what you pay for... Ben Myers
> >
> > On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 07:07:34 -0400, "Ted Zieglar" <teddyz@notmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>"What I learned from the experience was...
> >>
> >>...(1) read the software license carefully..."
> >>A well-known lesson; too bad you learned it the hard way.
> >>
> >>"...(2) do NOT buy software from Dell - the slight discount (if any) is
> >>definitely not worth the constraints on use and the lack of support from
> >>the
> >>software manufacturer,..."
> >>You mean 'don't buy OEM versions of software.' All OEMs sign the same
> >>support agreement with Microsoft. Many here would disagree, since OEM
> >>software can be much less expensive than retail software. If you need an
> >>instruction manual and support, don't buy OEM software.
> >>
> >>"...and (3) Dell support is a shadow of its former self."
> >>
> >>Dell - like other OEMs - is in the hardware business. Don't expect
> >>anything
> >>more than rudimentary software support from an OEM.
> >>
> >>Hopefully, you have learned from this experience to be prepared and not
to
> >>blame others for your lack of preparation. And please, spare us the
> >>feature
> >>length rants. Only the snivelers and whiners in this group like to see
> >>that.
> >>
> >>Ted Zieglar
> >>
> >>
> >>"Crsr111" <crsr111@aol.com> wrote in message
> >>news:20040921022041.04966.00003939@mb-m24.aol.com...
> >>>I purchased a laptop and opted to inlcude MS Office 2003 with the
> >>>purchase.
> >>> Installed it on the laptop, then bought a desktop and decided I would
> >>> rather
> >>> put MS Office on the desktop and run something else on my laptop. So
I
> >>> removed
> >>> it from the laptop and installed it on the desktop, but MS refused to
> >>> "activate" the new installation, giving me a message that said I had
> >>> already
> >>> activated it once. MS support simply told me the software ID was
> >>> invalid
> >>> and
> >>> that in any event Dell was responsible for supporting the software. I
> >>> called
> >>> Dell and explained I had been unable to activate the second
installation
> >>> becasue I was only allowed one activation, and the software support
> >>> person
> >>> was
> >>> not capable of understanding what had happened. Spent an hour having
me
> >>> uninstall and re-install, all the while m telling her that nothing she
> >>> had
> >>> me
> >>> doing would change anything at the MS web site where as far as they
are
> >>> concerned my activations were used up. Then after all was done she
> >>> assured me
> >>> the activation had been successful (NOT), before finally agreeing to
> >>> forward me
> >>> to a tech support person who would know how to help. Had to wait
> >>> another
> >>> 15
> >>> minutes for the next person, who was very nice but simply put me on
hold
> >>> while
> >>> she went to the MS web site and found that what was happeneing is
> >>> consistent
> >>> with their OEM license, nothing Dell could or would do and I would
just
> >>> have to
> >>> buy another copy. Turns out that the license with the OEM software
says
> >>> it is
> >>> not transferable to another computer. I did not appreciate this when
I
> >>> first
> >>> loaded it.
> >>>
> >>> I tried for another hour to reach someone in customer service at Dell
> >>> who
> >>> might
> >>> be able to get me some relief. No luck.
> >>>
> >>> Between dropped calls, long waits, constant recorded reminders to use
> >>> the
> >>> online support (which I had tried but there was no canned answer to my
> >>> problem
> >>> and the chat lines were unavailable), I was on the phone for three
> >>> hours,
> >>> half
> >>> the time on hold and most of the rest of the time with someone who did
> >>> not
> >>> seem
> >>> to hear me half the time ("Sir, you should know that you can get
support
> >>> on
> >>> Dell's web site"//"I know that and have looked there but there is no
> >>> answer to
> >>> my problem"//"I will give you the web site address"//"I know the web
> >>> site
> >>> address - I have visited there many times"//"Are you ready to write it
> >>> down?"//"I do not need to write it down, I already have it"//"Let me
> >>> know
> >>> when
> >>> you are ready and I will read it to you."//"big sigh") then after I
said
> >>> something several times and she finally acknowledged hearing me, she
> >>> showed no
> >>> ability to understand what I was saying and after we got over that
> >>> hurdle
> >>> and
> >>> she understood, no common sense whatsoever in solving the problem.
Very
> >>> frustrating.
> >>>
> >>> What I learned from the experience was (1) read the software license
> >>> carefully,
> >>> (2) do NOT buy software from Dell - the slight discount (if any) is
> >>> definitely
> >>> not worth the constraints on use and the lack of support from the
> >>> software
> >>> manufacturer, and (3) Dell support is a shadow of its former self. It
> >>> has
> >>> always been a reason to buy Dell, now if my next system is Dell it
will
> >>> be
> >>> despite Dell support, not because of it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 21, 2004 8:47:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Evidently Dell has it both ways, then. My client with Dell notebook definitely
did not get an Office CD with her system.

As others have said, buyers need to read the fine print. The first step is to
find the fine print... Ben Myers

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:51:38 -0400, "Tom Scales" <tomtoo@softhome.net> wrote:

>My two copies of OEM Office XP that I purchased with Dell computers both
>came with Office CDs.
>
>Tom

<SNIP>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 21, 2004 8:47:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Ben: Did you personally unpack the box and check that there was no Office
CD? And write to Dell (or the Community Forums, my favorite) to ask why no
CD?
--
Ted Zieglar


<ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in message
news:41505ac5.15181120@news.charter.net...
> Evidently Dell has it both ways, then. My client with Dell notebook
definitely
> did not get an Office CD with her system.
>
> As others have said, buyers need to read the fine print. The first step
is to
> find the fine print... Ben Myers
>
> On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:51:38 -0400, "Tom Scales" <tomtoo@softhome.net>
wrote:
>
> >My two copies of OEM Office XP that I purchased with Dell computers both
> >came with Office CDs.
> >
> >Tom
>
> <SNIP>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 21, 2004 9:01:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Ted,

I did not personally unpack the box, but I did see all the materials when I went
to hook up the computer to home office wifi. My client is relatively
well-organized and would not toss out materials unless I said it was OK, as with
the everywhere AOL 9.0 CDs also useful as emergency ice scrapers for your
windshield.

Your suggestion is a good one. I'll ask my client to call Dell and ask where
her Office XP CD is and why she didn't get one. To me, it is awfully risky not
to have the media to go with the software installed on a computer. At least
Dell is 1000% better than many companies with respect to XP, for which one gets
the CD in the box with the order. HP does not do this. You have to call and
request the XP CD from HP. IBM is the same, the only real complaint I have
about its computer products. With both HP and IBM you get a hidden partition
used to restore the operating system. Whoopee! How to restore the OS from a
dead hard drive? Duh! ... Ben Myers

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:57:14 -0400, "Ted Zieglar" <teddyz@notmail.com> wrote:

>Ben: Did you personally unpack the box and check that there was no Office
>CD? And write to Dell (or the Community Forums, my favorite) to ask why no
>CD?
>--
>Ted Zieglar
>
>
><ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in message
>news:41505ac5.15181120@news.charter.net...
>> Evidently Dell has it both ways, then. My client with Dell notebook
>definitely
>> did not get an Office CD with her system.
>>
>> As others have said, buyers need to read the fine print. The first step
>is to
>> find the fine print... Ben Myers
>>
>> On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:51:38 -0400, "Tom Scales" <tomtoo@softhome.net>
>wrote:
>>
>> >My two copies of OEM Office XP that I purchased with Dell computers both
>> >came with Office CDs.
>> >
>> >Tom
>>
>> <SNIP>
>
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 21, 2004 9:01:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 17:01:36 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not wrote in
<news:41505d3e.15814583@news.charter.net>:

> I did not personally unpack the box, but I did see all the materials when I went
> to hook up the computer to home office wifi. My client is relatively
> well-organized and would not toss out materials unless I said it was OK, as with
> the everywhere AOL 9.0 CDs also useful as emergency ice scrapers for your
> windshield.
>
> Your suggestion is a good one. I'll ask my client to call Dell and ask where
> her Office XP CD is and why she didn't get one. To me, it is awfully risky not
> to have the media to go with the software installed on a computer. At least
> Dell is 1000% better than many companies with respect to XP, for which one gets
> the CD in the box with the order. HP does not do this. You have to call and
> request the XP CD from HP. IBM is the same, the only real complaint I have
> about its computer products. With both HP and IBM you get a hidden partition
> used to restore the operating system. Whoopee! How to restore the OS from a
> dead hard drive? Duh! ... Ben Myers

One place to look is on the invoice that came with the system. I'd read
somewhere on the 'net (maybe in this group but I can't remember) that Dell
at one point was having problems with not sending all the CD's along with a
system which people weren't catching in the "send it back" period.

If the invoice says it was supposed to be there and it wasn't, that will
give you more ammunition if/when you contact Dell.

Dave
--
You can talk about us, but you can't talk without us!
US Army Signal Corps!!

http://www.geocities.com/davidcasey98

Remove IH8SPAM to reply by email!
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 21, 2004 9:01:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Dell sells units in two versions: 1) personal and 2) corporate. I know
that is something of a simplification and not *entirely* accurate, but read
on to catch the drift:

If you order ala "Personal" style, you will usually get the software (CDs)
*unless* you check "do not send CDs" somewhere in the fine-print-html.

If you order ala "Corporate" style, you will usually NOT get the software
*unless* you check "send the CDs".

Read ALL sections CAREFULLY while ordering online! and double-check
*verbally* while using phone orders.

R.C. Silk -- The Computer Tutor
*Help for Humans in Need*
http://personalpages.tds.net/~rcsilk/
http://dicksilk.chatango.com/ (for live chat)

--A pessimist is never disappointed.


<ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in message
news:41505d3e.15814583@news.charter.net...
> Ted,
>
> I did not personally unpack the box, but I did see all the materials when
> I went
> to hook up the computer to home office wifi. My client is relatively
> well-organized and would not toss out materials unless I said it was OK,
> as with
> the everywhere AOL 9.0 CDs also useful as emergency ice scrapers for your
> windshield.
>
> Your suggestion is a good one. I'll ask my client to call Dell and ask
> where
> her Office XP CD is and why she didn't get one. To me, it is awfully
> risky not
> to have the media to go with the software installed on a computer. At
> least
> Dell is 1000% better than many companies with respect to XP, for which one
> gets
> the CD in the box with the order. HP does not do this. You have to call
> and
> request the XP CD from HP. IBM is the same, the only real complaint I
> have
> about its computer products. With both HP and IBM you get a hidden
> partition
> used to restore the operating system. Whoopee! How to restore the OS
> from a
> dead hard drive? Duh! ... Ben Myers
>
> On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:57:14 -0400, "Ted Zieglar" <teddyz@notmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Ben: Did you personally unpack the box and check that there was no Office
>>CD? And write to Dell (or the Community Forums, my favorite) to ask why no
>>CD?
>>--
>>Ted Zieglar
>>
>>
>><ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in message
>>news:41505ac5.15181120@news.charter.net...
>>> Evidently Dell has it both ways, then. My client with Dell notebook
>>definitely
>>> did not get an Office CD with her system.
>>>
>>> As others have said, buyers need to read the fine print. The first step
>>is to
>>> find the fine print... Ben Myers
>>>
>>> On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:51:38 -0400, "Tom Scales" <tomtoo@softhome.net>
>>wrote:
>>>
>>> >My two copies of OEM Office XP that I purchased with Dell computers
>>> >both
>>> >came with Office CDs.
>>> >
>>> >Tom
>>>
>>> <SNIP>
>>
>>
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 21, 2004 9:15:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

By "corporate" do I presume correctly that you mean channels other that Home
and Small Business? That would make sense, since larger organizations
typically have some kind of volume license for software.

Larger organizations are a whole different ballgame. It would never occur to
me as an individual to purchase from Dell's "corporate" divisions, since I
understand that the prices shown are "suggested" and only the basis for the
volume discounts these organizations typically receive.
--
Ted Zieglar


"Dick Silk" <dick_silk@anti-spam.net> wrote in message
news:415095e8$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
> Dell sells units in two versions: 1) personal and 2) corporate. I know
> that is something of a simplification and not *entirely* accurate, but
read
> on to catch the drift:
>
> If you order ala "Personal" style, you will usually get the software (CDs)
> *unless* you check "do not send CDs" somewhere in the fine-print-html.
>
> If you order ala "Corporate" style, you will usually NOT get the software
> *unless* you check "send the CDs".
>
> Read ALL sections CAREFULLY while ordering online! and double-check
> *verbally* while using phone orders.
>
> R.C. Silk -- The Computer Tutor
> *Help for Humans in Need*
> http://personalpages.tds.net/~rcsilk/
> http://dicksilk.chatango.com/ (for live chat)
>
> --A pessimist is never disappointed.
>
>
> <ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in message
> news:41505d3e.15814583@news.charter.net...
> > Ted,
> >
> > I did not personally unpack the box, but I did see all the materials
when
> > I went
> > to hook up the computer to home office wifi. My client is relatively
> > well-organized and would not toss out materials unless I said it was OK,
> > as with
> > the everywhere AOL 9.0 CDs also useful as emergency ice scrapers for
your
> > windshield.
> >
> > Your suggestion is a good one. I'll ask my client to call Dell and ask
> > where
> > her Office XP CD is and why she didn't get one. To me, it is awfully
> > risky not
> > to have the media to go with the software installed on a computer. At
> > least
> > Dell is 1000% better than many companies with respect to XP, for which
one
> > gets
> > the CD in the box with the order. HP does not do this. You have to
call
> > and
> > request the XP CD from HP. IBM is the same, the only real complaint I
> > have
> > about its computer products. With both HP and IBM you get a hidden
> > partition
> > used to restore the operating system. Whoopee! How to restore the OS
> > from a
> > dead hard drive? Duh! ... Ben Myers
> >
> > On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:57:14 -0400, "Ted Zieglar" <teddyz@notmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>Ben: Did you personally unpack the box and check that there was no
Office
> >>CD? And write to Dell (or the Community Forums, my favorite) to ask why
no
> >>CD?
> >>--
> >>Ted Zieglar
> >>
> >>
> >><ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in message
> >>news:41505ac5.15181120@news.charter.net...
> >>> Evidently Dell has it both ways, then. My client with Dell notebook
> >>definitely
> >>> did not get an Office CD with her system.
> >>>
> >>> As others have said, buyers need to read the fine print. The first
step
> >>is to
> >>> find the fine print... Ben Myers
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:51:38 -0400, "Tom Scales" <tomtoo@softhome.net>
> >>wrote:
> >>>
> >>> >My two copies of OEM Office XP that I purchased with Dell computers
> >>> >both
> >>> >came with Office CDs.
> >>> >
> >>> >Tom
> >>>
> >>> <SNIP>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 21, 2004 9:15:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

You're being too precise, but yes.
The gist of the message is to demonstrate the difference in style:
"personal" users get software unless it's checked "don't send" (USUALLY)
whereas
"business/corporate" users do NOT get software unless it's checked "SEND"
(USUALLY).
Dell's html systems change DAILY.
READ CAREFULLY!


"Ted Zieglar" <teddyz@notmail.com> wrote in message
news:1095801228.8j2Jx+fC9Iq9QnjcZSVC+g@teranews...
> By "corporate" do I presume correctly that you mean channels other that
> Home
> and Small Business? That would make sense, since larger organizations
> typically have some kind of volume license for software.
>
> Larger organizations are a whole different ballgame. It would never occur
> to
> me as an individual to purchase from Dell's "corporate" divisions, since I
> understand that the prices shown are "suggested" and only the basis for
> the
> volume discounts these organizations typically receive.
> --
> Ted Zieglar
>
>
> "Dick Silk" <dick_silk@anti-spam.net> wrote in message
> news:415095e8$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net...
>> Dell sells units in two versions: 1) personal and 2) corporate. I know
>> that is something of a simplification and not *entirely* accurate, but
> read
>> on to catch the drift:
>>
>> If you order ala "Personal" style, you will usually get the software
>> (CDs)
>> *unless* you check "do not send CDs" somewhere in the fine-print-html.
>>
>> If you order ala "Corporate" style, you will usually NOT get the software
>> *unless* you check "send the CDs".
>>
>> Read ALL sections CAREFULLY while ordering online! and double-check
>> *verbally* while using phone orders.
>>
>> R.C. Silk -- The Computer Tutor
>> *Help for Humans in Need*
>> http://personalpages.tds.net/~rcsilk/
>> http://dicksilk.chatango.com/ (for live chat)
>>
>> --A pessimist is never disappointed.
>>
>>
>> <ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in message
>> news:41505d3e.15814583@news.charter.net...
>> > Ted,
>> >
>> > I did not personally unpack the box, but I did see all the materials
> when
>> > I went
>> > to hook up the computer to home office wifi. My client is relatively
>> > well-organized and would not toss out materials unless I said it was
>> > OK,
>> > as with
>> > the everywhere AOL 9.0 CDs also useful as emergency ice scrapers for
> your
>> > windshield.
>> >
>> > Your suggestion is a good one. I'll ask my client to call Dell and ask
>> > where
>> > her Office XP CD is and why she didn't get one. To me, it is awfully
>> > risky not
>> > to have the media to go with the software installed on a computer. At
>> > least
>> > Dell is 1000% better than many companies with respect to XP, for which
> one
>> > gets
>> > the CD in the box with the order. HP does not do this. You have to
> call
>> > and
>> > request the XP CD from HP. IBM is the same, the only real complaint I
>> > have
>> > about its computer products. With both HP and IBM you get a hidden
>> > partition
>> > used to restore the operating system. Whoopee! How to restore the OS
>> > from a
>> > dead hard drive? Duh! ... Ben Myers
>> >
>> > On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:57:14 -0400, "Ted Zieglar" <teddyz@notmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>Ben: Did you personally unpack the box and check that there was no
> Office
>> >>CD? And write to Dell (or the Community Forums, my favorite) to ask why
> no
>> >>CD?
>> >>--
>> >>Ted Zieglar
>> >>
>> >>
>> >><ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in message
>> >>news:41505ac5.15181120@news.charter.net...
>> >>> Evidently Dell has it both ways, then. My client with Dell notebook
>> >>definitely
>> >>> did not get an Office CD with her system.
>> >>>
>> >>> As others have said, buyers need to read the fine print. The first
> step
>> >>is to
>> >>> find the fine print... Ben Myers
>> >>>
>> >>> On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:51:38 -0400, "Tom Scales"
>> >>> <tomtoo@softhome.net>
>> >>wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> >My two copies of OEM Office XP that I purchased with Dell computers
>> >>> >both
>> >>> >came with Office CDs.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Tom
>> >>>
>> >>> <SNIP>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 22, 2004 12:48:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Ted Zieglar <teddyz@notmail.com> wrote:
> Do you expect the computer industry to be different from any other? For
> better or worse, businesses are out to make a profit. Consumers have to
> prepare and exercise caution when buying a computer as they do when buying a
> car or anything else. Consumers who do not prepare or exercise caution will
> be unhappy with their cars, computers, toasters, refrigerators...
> --
> Ted Zieglar

This is not a satisfaction issue. That would be something along the
lines of "Word can't even print <some esoteric media format>!"

The problem here is artificial and unexpected limitations on the product.
If I were car shopping today, I would NOT expect limitations on the use
of the car. If I brought the car to a friend's house and found out I
couldn't park it in any other driveway than my own, I would find it deeply
disturbing. "This car is licensed for such and such driveway."

This is unique among the intellectual property industry. I hope it's a
fad. Because it is really becoming a nuisance. And I can't believe
consumers champion it.

The advocates of anti-piracy are going to learn: (1) they are
alienating real consumers (2) you can't milk the pimply teenagers
for a copy of Adobe Photoshop CS (i.e. the cost of piracy is
GROSSLY inflated) (3) pimply teenagers know how to download
defeated warez and (4) movies from asia do not come with twenty
seals around the DVD case, a electronic theft deterrent, shrink
wrap, a federal and international criminal warning, and a bozo
with a highlighter checking the receipt.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 22, 2004 12:52:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Matt;
If that is what was said, it is incorrect.
It can be reinstalled on the original computer an unlimited number of
times without cost.

However since it is OEM, it can not normally be transferred to another
computer regardless the condition of the computer.
One of the many reasons OEM is cheaper than retail

--
Jupiter Jones
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"Matt" <matt@themattfella.zzzz.com> wrote in message
news:KL_3d.6931$ai5.924@news02.roc.ny...
> Are you saying you can't get the software reinstalled on its
> original computer without paying?
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 22, 2004 1:01:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Jupiter Jones <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote:
> Matt;
> If that is what was said, it is incorrect.
> It can be reinstalled on the original computer an unlimited number of
> times without cost.

> However since it is OEM, it can not normally be transferred to another
> computer regardless the condition of the computer.
> One of the many reasons OEM is cheaper than retail

Enrolling in Golf 101 at a junior college and buying the educational version
is cheaper still. The policies are nonsense.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 22, 2004 1:27:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Unfortunately, this is a generalization that isn't quite accurate. For
example, my machines came from Small Business (and therefore Corporate, not
Personal) and came with all the CDs.

My most recent 8400 was from the Outlet store and also came with all the
CDs.

Tom
"Dick Silk" <dick_silk@anti-spam.net> wrote in message
news:41509bef$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> You're being too precise, but yes.
> The gist of the message is to demonstrate the difference in style:
> "personal" users get software unless it's checked "don't send" (USUALLY)
> whereas
> "business/corporate" users do NOT get software unless it's checked "SEND"
> (USUALLY).
> Dell's html systems change DAILY.
> READ CAREFULLY!
September 22, 2004 2:53:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Oh - You didn't read the microsoft OEM software agreement..
So you blame Dell for your oversight (or stupidity).
hahaha
I didn't see you on http://rinkworks.com/stupid/ - strange


"Crsr111" <crsr111@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040921022041.04966.00003939@mb-m24.aol.com...
> I purchased a laptop and opted to inlcude MS Office 2003 with the
purchase.
> Installed it on the laptop, then bought a desktop and decided I would
rather
> put MS Office on the desktop and run something else on my laptop. So I
removed
> it from the laptop and installed it on the desktop, but MS refused to
> "activate" the new installation, giving me a message that said I had
already
> activated it once. MS support simply told me the software ID was invalid
and
> that in any event Dell was responsible for supporting the software. I
called
> Dell and explained I had been unable to activate the second installation
> becasue I was only allowed one activation, and the software support person
was
> not capable of understanding what had happened. Spent an hour having me
> uninstall and re-install, all the while m telling her that nothing she had
me
> doing would change anything at the MS web site where as far as they are
> concerned my activations were used up. Then after all was done she
assured me
> the activation had been successful (NOT), before finally agreeing to
forward me
> to a tech support person who would know how to help. Had to wait another
15
> minutes for the next person, who was very nice but simply put me on hold
while
> she went to the MS web site and found that what was happeneing is
consistent
> with their OEM license, nothing Dell could or would do and I would just
have to
> buy another copy. Turns out that the license with the OEM software says
it is
> not transferable to another computer. I did not appreciate this when I
first
> loaded it.
>
> I tried for another hour to reach someone in customer service at Dell who
might
> be able to get me some relief. No luck.
>
> Between dropped calls, long waits, constant recorded reminders to use the
> online support (which I had tried but there was no canned answer to my
problem
> and the chat lines were unavailable), I was on the phone for three hours,
half
> the time on hold and most of the rest of the time with someone who did not
seem
> to hear me half the time ("Sir, you should know that you can get support
on
> Dell's web site"//"I know that and have looked there but there is no
answer to
> my problem"//"I will give you the web site address"//"I know the web site
> address - I have visited there many times"//"Are you ready to write it
> down?"//"I do not need to write it down, I already have it"//"Let me know
when
> you are ready and I will read it to you."//"big sigh") then after I said
> something several times and she finally acknowledged hearing me, she
showed no
> ability to understand what I was saying and after we got over that hurdle
and
> she understood, no common sense whatsoever in solving the problem. Very
> frustrating.
>
> What I learned from the experience was (1) read the software license
carefully,
> (2) do NOT buy software from Dell - the slight discount (if any) is
definitely
> not worth the constraints on use and the lack of support from the software
> manufacturer, and (3) Dell support is a shadow of its former self. It has
> always been a reason to buy Dell, now if my next system is Dell it will be
> despite Dell support, not because of it.
>
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 22, 2004 7:55:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Tom, what video card did you get with your 8400?

"Tom Scales" <tomtoo@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:4YadnZBM8P21S83cRVn-hA@comcast.com...
> Unfortunately, this is a generalization that isn't quite accurate. For
> example, my machines came from Small Business (and therefore Corporate,
> not Personal) and came with all the CDs.
>
> My most recent 8400 was from the Outlet store and also came with all the
> CDs.
>
> Tom
> "Dick Silk" <dick_silk@anti-spam.net> wrote in message
> news:41509bef$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
>> You're being too precise, but yes.
>> The gist of the message is to demonstrate the difference in style:
>> "personal" users get software unless it's checked "don't send" (USUALLY)
>> whereas
>> "business/corporate" users do NOT get software unless it's checked "SEND"
>> (USUALLY).
>> Dell's html systems change DAILY.
>> READ CAREFULLY!
>
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 22, 2004 8:40:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

The "policies" are also part of the agreement.
If someone thinks something they agree to is "nonsense", they should
choose another product.

As for the educational version, the EULAs I have read state to the
effect the license to use expires once class etc is over.
Read the EULA you agreed for details.

--
Jupiter Jones
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"AbsintheFish" <fishh@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ciq4re$e64$2@gondor.sdsu.edu...
> Enrolling in Golf 101 at a junior college and buying the educational
> version
> is cheaper still. The policies are nonsense.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 22, 2004 10:02:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

The ATI X300.

Tom
"WSZsr" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aJ64d.12978$yp2.9396@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
> Tom, what video card did you get with your 8400?
>
> "Tom Scales" <tomtoo@softhome.net> wrote in message
> news:4YadnZBM8P21S83cRVn-hA@comcast.com...
>> Unfortunately, this is a generalization that isn't quite accurate. For
>> example, my machines came from Small Business (and therefore Corporate,
>> not Personal) and came with all the CDs.
>>
>> My most recent 8400 was from the Outlet store and also came with all the
>> CDs.
>>
>> Tom
>> "Dick Silk" <dick_silk@anti-spam.net> wrote in message
>> news:41509bef$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
>>> You're being too precise, but yes.
>>> The gist of the message is to demonstrate the difference in style:
>>> "personal" users get software unless it's checked "don't send" (USUALLY)
>>> whereas
>>> "business/corporate" users do NOT get software unless it's checked
>>> "SEND" (USUALLY).
>>> Dell's html systems change DAILY.
>>> READ CAREFULLY!
>>
>>
>
>
September 22, 2004 10:03:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Robert R Kircher, Jr. wrote:

> Ben,
>
> I believe there is a new option on several of the Dell systems which allows
> you to request the media. In anyevent I have never received a Dell without
> the full media set so this, if true, has to be a new thing.
>
> On the software licensing issue, I've always disagreed with the concept of
> software being tied to a particular PC. But this is one of the draw backs
> to discounted software bundled with new PC. Right or wrong MS (and other
> software companies) recoup their loss (discount) by forcing the end user to
> purchase another copy of the software at retail prices. Frankly, I think
> software in general cost way too much, but having been in the software
> development end of the deal, it also cost the software companies way too
> much to produce the software. High salaries, poor management, buggy
> products, unrealistic goals and schedule, all take their toll which is
> passed onto the consumer.

So the prices will be coming down now that the tech jobs are being
outsourced offshore? (probably not)
September 22, 2004 10:08:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Molly wrote:

> Dell and Microsoft should let the consumer know the true price of an OEM
> product. Is software buying coming down to car buying? Are we as consumers
> always going to be taken for a ride? The bottom line is profit, not consumer
> awareness.

Well, DUH, that's not news.

Sorry if that sounds harsh; but I doubt you can name any companies who
aren't after profits, after all, that's what companies are all about.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 22, 2004 7:41:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Jupiter Jones <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote:
> The "policies" are also part of the agreement.
> If someone thinks something they agree to is "nonsense", they should
> choose another product.

> As for the educational version, the EULAs I have read state to the
> effect the license to use expires once class etc is over.
> Read the EULA you agreed for details.

The MS EULA for educational software doesn't contain the word "expire."
It does have several references to limitations of installation.
And this clause looks interesting: (it's the only one I saw that
even looked relevant to expiration)

That two-line clause reads:
The license granted herein for use of the Software is a
personal learning license /intended/ [emphasis is mine]
for non-commercial purposes by Qualified Educational Users
and members of the same household as the Qualified
Educational User.

Get your lawyer glasses. The word "intended" doesn't sound definitive
to me. Does intention count? This is a document in ~9 pt font which
further invites mail-in requests for more elaborate details. Is granny
going to understand this? No. But if I read the document correctly,
my son is qualified to use the software. He just started kindergarten.
Shoppers in a similar context could enjoy Office 2003 Educational
for the next 12 years.

Why the anti-consumerism? (not you personally, just a collection of replies
posts blaming the OP) You're arguing against your own best interest as well
as your brethren. The spirit of the OEM EULA is to force new sales. The
RIAA tried this. What a nightmare.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 22, 2004 9:59:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

lol. new growth market for ms; cradle robbing. but seriously, i think the
key in that paragraph is 'qualified' as used in 'qualified educational
users.' what they mean by that is more of a mystery than the use of the
word 'intended.' perhaps they detail that elsewhere? also, i have heard
that you have to fax some sort of proof of qualification in order to get
activated? any insight on that? student or faculty id perhaps?

"AbsintheFish" <fishh@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cis6ek$t3$1@gondor.sdsu.edu...
> Jupiter Jones <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote:
> > The "policies" are also part of the agreement.
> > If someone thinks something they agree to is "nonsense", they should
> > choose another product.
>
> > As for the educational version, the EULAs I have read state to the
> > effect the license to use expires once class etc is over.
> > Read the EULA you agreed for details.
>
> The MS EULA for educational software doesn't contain the word "expire."
> It does have several references to limitations of installation.
> And this clause looks interesting: (it's the only one I saw that
> even looked relevant to expiration)
>
> That two-line clause reads:
> The license granted herein for use of the Software is a
> personal learning license /intended/ [emphasis is mine]
> for non-commercial purposes by Qualified Educational Users
> and members of the same household as the Qualified
> Educational User.
>
> Get your lawyer glasses. The word "intended" doesn't sound definitive
> to me. Does intention count? This is a document in ~9 pt font which
> further invites mail-in requests for more elaborate details. Is granny
> going to understand this? No. But if I read the document correctly,
> my son is qualified to use the software. He just started kindergarten.
> Shoppers in a similar context could enjoy Office 2003 Educational
> for the next 12 years.
>
> Why the anti-consumerism? (not you personally, just a collection of
replies
> posts blaming the OP) You're arguing against your own best interest as
well
> as your brethren. The spirit of the OEM EULA is to force new sales. The
> RIAA tried this. What a nightmare.
>
>
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 23, 2004 1:56:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Christopher Muto <muto@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> lol. new growth market for ms; cradle robbing.

Yeah, no kidding!

> but seriously, i think the
> key in that paragraph is 'qualified' as used in 'qualified educational
> users.' what they mean by that is more of a mystery than the use of the
> word 'intended.' perhaps they detail that elsewhere?

The EULA suggests mailing Microsoft for the definition. But a search
of Microsoft's web site gets a definition, probably the official one.
K through Higher Ed qualify. Preschool qualifies. Technical schools
qualify. Accreditation is key event for most of these.

Now tell me, what preschooler is going to be looking for Office?
I guess if there's a very complex marble tournament, maybe the
kids could organize the elimination rounds in Excel or something.

I haven't read the EULA before to be honest. Anyone in the same household
is licensed to use the product. All the cradle robbers are completely
legal.

> also, i have heard
> that you have to fax some sort of proof of qualification in order to get
> activated? any insight on that? student or faculty id perhaps?

Well, I work for a college system. Our bookstores require students
to show an ID for purchases. I've scanned and mailed my ID to a few
places to make purchases. I don't know if these things swim upstream
to Microsoft. I doubt it. If anything, there's probably a loose
audit or agreement signed between Microsoft and the retailer agreeing
to abide to practices.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 23, 2004 5:53:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Normally there is no verification that you qualify for the software
before you buy.
There used to be but that ended about 3 years ago.

Contrary to what some think, Microsoft does trust you when you agree
to the EULA.

--
Jupiter Jones
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"AbsintheFish" <fishh@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cisse4$6hn$1@gondor.sdsu.edu...
>
> The EULA suggests mailing Microsoft for the definition. But a
> search
> of Microsoft's web site gets a definition, probably the official
> one.
> K through Higher Ed qualify. Preschool qualifies. Technical
> schools
> qualify. Accreditation is key event for most of these.
>
> Now tell me, what preschooler is going to be looking for Office?
> I guess if there's a very complex marble tournament, maybe the
> kids could organize the elimination rounds in Excel or something.
>
> I haven't read the EULA before to be honest. Anyone in the same
> household
> is licensed to use the product. All the cradle robbers are
> completely
> legal.
>
>> also, i have heard
>> that you have to fax some sort of proof of qualification in order
>> to get
>> activated? any insight on that? student or faculty id perhaps?
>
> Well, I work for a college system. Our bookstores require students
> to show an ID for purchases. I've scanned and mailed my ID to a few
> places to make purchases. I don't know if these things swim
> upstream
> to Microsoft. I doubt it. If anything, there's probably a loose
> audit or agreement signed between Microsoft and the retailer
> agreeing
> to abide to practices.
>
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 23, 2004 6:54:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Jupiter Jones <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote:
> Normally there is no verification that you qualify for the software
> before you buy.
> There used to be but that ended about 3 years ago.

> Contrary to what some think, Microsoft does trust you when you agree
> to the EULA.

"Jupiter", (I'm adopting your love of quotes)

Just to be clear, everything in this vein of the thread is legal to the
letter of the law.

I think you are missing the gist of the thread. Microsoft is sloppy
in screwing the consumer just as much as they are sloppy in giving
perks. It's arbitrary. It's "nonsense."
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
September 26, 2004 10:32:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

In article <4150234c.977684@news.charter.net>, ben_myers_spam_me_not @
charter.net (Ben Myers) (ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben
Myers)) says...

> One more comment. As I have found in dealing with one of my clients who got
> Office XPee pre-installed when she bought a new Dell notebook, Dell does NOT
> supply you with a copy of the Office CD.

That was a shipping error. Dell ships the disks for all installed
software. She should have reported the problem to customer support.

--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc
!