I'm considering several platform options for my next upgrade. Does anyone know how the XP compaires to the P4 in Finite Element Analysis? NO BULLSHIT from the trolls, only knowlegeable answers please! I need it for SDRC Ideas Master Series 8. And any input from Rayston on future improvements for the Northwood concerning FEM would be appreciated as well.
In case the rest of you are wondering what I'm talking about, I need to stress test 3D models, like crashing cars into walls, etc.

Back to you Tom...
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  1. I have never used FEM software. Can you break down the typical operations it performs on a percentage basis for ALU, FPU, SMP use, etc?


    = The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
  2. No, I can't. I kinow that one project took our server 20 minutes to 14 hours depending on the number of elements. But who knows how good the server was and how much othre work it was doing. The building is 14 years old, maybe the server is that old too?

    Back to you Tom...
  3. I'm seeing some good deals on Quad Xeon platforms(actually found a mainboard for $200). Would I be better off with a Quad Xeon 450 1mb cache system (for as little as $35 per CPU!) or a P4 2.0GHz (overclocked to 2.66GHz) Northwood system? The Quad Xeon system has 16 Dimm sockets, I'm assuming that's four per processor. 4GB of SDRAM isn't too expensive right now. I couldn't even afford a DUAL Northwood platform! Ideas is designed to run on such systems.
    Also, if anyone knows how to get the software package, let me know. All I can find for SALE is the student version (no FEM/FEA). The full version is normally RENTED by corporate users and schools.

    Back to you Tom...
  4. This depends entirely on the software you want to run. As far as the memory, all memory is shared by all processors. After all, data must be shared between the processors.


    = The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
  5. As a rule, if the program is capable of dividing task EVENLY across 4 processors, which would have 8 times the total cache over the P4 but be 1/4 the speed, Would I be better off with the 4x faster P4 or the 4x as many Xeon?

    Back to you Tom...
  6. Better off with a Dual MP/XP
    Much stronger FPU, even when Intel "fixes" it on the P4 Northwood I don't think it'll hold against the AMD FPU.....

    -MeTaL RoCkEr
    My <font color=red> Z28 </font color=red> can take your <font color=blue> P4 </font color=blue> off the line!
  7. i'm no guru, but with the p4's faster ram, sse, and newer design, i'd expect the p4 to have it over the quad. don't forget the quad takes a hit just keeping itself synchronized.

    If you've got the cash, a dual athlon MP 1800+ would my (current) pick for engineering.
  8. Come on people, he asked for knowledgable posts about Xeon vs. P4, not "Um, well AthlonMP is cooler".

    I'm torn between the huge cache on the Xeon, and the better memory bandwidth of the P4.
    I'd say, since the quad Xeon system is a lot cheaper, go for that. I don't think the performance difference would be huge, but I'm not really sure :(

    <font color=green>I post so you don't have to!
    9/11 - RIP</font color=green>
  9. I don't know that one bench showed dual pIII xeon 700's with 1 mb cache performing worse than a 2ghz p4. Let me look for it again to make sure.

    Nice <b><font color=green>Lizards</b></font color=green> <b>crunch</b> Trolls cookies....... :smile: Yummy!! :smile:
  10. Never mind i was wrong. It shows dual 1.2 MP's and dual 1.7xeons beating quad pIII 700 xeons. <A HREF="" target="_new">link</A> I would say go with the dual 1800 MP's but I'll let you draw your own conclusion.

    Nice <b><font color=green>Lizards</b></font color=green> <b>crunch</b> Trolls cookies....... :smile: Yummy!! :smile:
  11. He did ask about the XP, so you're right. Sorry to bitch at you guys for no reason.
    So Crash, what's your spending limit? You talked about how cheap the Xeons would be, so I assumed that you were trying to spend as little as humanly possible.
    Also, how important is the time savings? In other words, if you had two computers at $500 and $1500, and the $1500 one did it in half the time, would you go for the more expensive one, or the cheaper one?

    <font color=green>I post so you don't have to!
    9/11 - RIP</font color=green>
  12. My normal processor budget is $200. When I upgrade in the early spring I expect the Northwood 2GHz to be at that level. I really don't like NT/2k/XP, but need it for this software, making multiple CPU's an option.
    I have about a $200 budget for the motherboard.
    I also have about a $200 budget for the memory.
    I'm specifically questioning the value of XP vs P4 vs multiple outdated XEON in the area of FEM/FEA.

    Sure I game, but any of these solutions would do for gaming. 200FPS v 100FPS makes little diference to me in that area. I'm mainly concerned with FEM/FEA. This will be my first computer designed for that purpose.

    But I'd also like any tips on getting an SDRC IDEAS full package (by whatever means) so I can do more of my work at home (hint).

    Oh, my three channel U2W RAID card should be comming any time now, I plan on using two channels to get U3 performance using RAID 0. The third channel is for slower devices, such as my CDRW and scanner (and any backup drives, I don't need redundancy as long as I have an image of my array).

    Back to you Tom...
  13. I don't know the effects of the FPU on FEM/FEA. And as far as rendering goes, that's not the problem. I need to crunch HUGE numbers with a SUPER HIGH degree of accuracy. Damn, maybe I'll be needing buffered RAM. Anyway, isn't this type of thing just raw interger calculation?

    Back to you Tom...
  14. Quote:
    One of our close friends, and an avid reader of Ace's, Vincent Van Diepeveen , is entering the world championship of computer chess at the end of the month with his chess program: DIEP. DIEP is an extremely complex and intensive application, but contrary to many typical workstation applications, it is a 100% integer program.

    The program in only 460KB in size, but makes use of gigantic 150MB "hashtables" (data). While the benchmark depends somewhat on the memory sub-system, pure CPU power is the primary bottleneck. Good branch prediction is extremely important, as chess programs are infested with pesky branches.

    I believe this benchmark shows pure number crunching of all processors. It's on the conclusions page. I don't know if this is what you were looking for or not though. Currently MP's are $154 and the thunder k7 with scis is $360 but I expect those prices to drop significantly by Q1 next year. 256 PC 2100 reg. ecc memory from crucial is only $40 a piece right now. Just a thought.

    Nice <b><font color=green>Lizards</b></font color=green> <b>crunch</b> Trolls cookies....... :smile: Yummy!! :smile:
  15. My Links! My Links! I can't feel my links! Oh, the humanity (weeping)!

    Back to you Tom...
  16. nope, fea is typically mostly floating point. try the sci.engr.analysis newsgroup for more info - and maybe some more knowledgable recommendations.
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