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Will 0.13 T-B Athlon's have SSE2 ????????

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  • Next Generation
  • AMD
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October 19, 2001 9:48:28 PM

Well AMD Next Gen T-B Athlon have open standard SSE2 on them like the HAMMER. Well i hear VIA P4 clones might use SSE2 also. Since SSE2 is a great open standard like MMX.

Well im just wondering ?

Nice Nvidia and ATi users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:

More about : athlon sse2

October 20, 2001 5:57:47 AM

i thought MMX kinda sucked?

i just saw the AMD productline predictions...
0.13 micron & SIO within a year... yum.

Religious wars are 2 groups of people fighting over who has the best imaginary friend.
October 20, 2001 10:33:37 AM

why would MMX suck?
over the P1-non MMX it was a great imprvement using programable multimedia extantions in otimised code.

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October 20, 2001 12:02:03 PM

MMX is worthless now in modern processors because a modern P4 or Athlon can handle integers nearly as fast with their ALUs as they can with MMX

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
October 20, 2001 12:32:16 PM

mmm course it sucks NOW... my calculator probably has MMX in it!

but in its prime, HOW MANY apps had MMX enhancments? and overall what effect did they have.

i rember back to my p1-166... MMX was all the rage, yet i never really saw any massive bloom of mmx enable apps.

Religious wars are 2 groups of people fighting over who has the best imaginary friend.
Anonymous
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October 20, 2001 12:36:59 PM

For all you SSE types out there SSE stands for Streaming SIMD Extensions. SIMD: Single instruction- multiple data. And the first implimentation of SIMD was, if i'm not mistaken, MMX. So without MMX there would not be SIMD.

If i'm wrong feel free to flame someone else, or correct me in a polite fashion.

:eek:  <font color=blue>I for one run Quake 3 on a P133(No MMX)</font color=blue>I have no affiliatioin w/ Intel
October 20, 2001 12:47:25 PM

Not as far as I know. SSE2 will only appear on Hammer. Anything that boosts performance in applications is a bonus so quit the whinging people.

<font color=purple>~* K6-2 @ 333MHz *~
I don't need a 'Gigahertz' chip to surf the web just yet ;-)</font color=purple>
October 20, 2001 12:55:07 PM

WTF would AMD pass up Open Source SSE2 Apps. Notice if its SSE2 coding intel spanks them. Well Cyrix-Via are going to use it for there P4 clone. It would be horrible of AMD only releasing it for the hammer.

Nice Nvidia and ATi users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
October 20, 2001 1:08:00 PM

damn leechers those AMD guys..
why not 3DNOW!-rev2?
i would like to see them spend some of their own cash to develop something!
(not that im not a fan of AMD;).)

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October 20, 2001 1:40:58 PM

hmmm...

For a company that doesn't develop anything on their own, AMD comes up with a heckuva lot of patents!

And guess what?

If I'm not mistaken, AMD uses it's patents and control over them as leverage in licensing other companies' developments. So, AMD is smart, I think, in pushing the envelope in areas other companies are not, then swapping technology with those companies. More bang for the buck for all parties concerned. I mean, why reinvent the wheel when you can invent something else altogether and still use the wheel someone else invented?

Mark-

When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!
October 20, 2001 1:47:08 PM

3DNow! Technology has always been an SSE counterpart. The original 3DNow! Technology in the K6-2 was only 24 instructions, I believe. Then came the Athlon with Enhanced 3DNow! and more instructions. Now we have the Athlon XP with all the SSE instructions of the Pentium 3. SIMD instructions are a really stupid idea, if you ask me. Rather than having an R&D working on SIMD instructions, why couldn't they start looking into developing enhanced FPUs and ALUs from the beginning? That way, all the apps would benefit, rather than just "optimized" apps.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
Anonymous
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October 20, 2001 2:07:36 PM

Sounds like Rambus :) .

-Spuddy

<font color=red>Being Evil Is Good. Cause I Can Be A Prick And Get Away With It.</font color=red> :lol: 
October 20, 2001 2:15:23 PM

Hi!

Me and my friend was wondering about all this enhancements thats coming, mmx, 3dnow, 3dnow! pro, sse, sse2... and so on. Is this really better than a strong fpu? Is for example a program/game benefiting more from sse in P3/P4 than the stronger fpu in Athlon?
Another example, a new game comes in two versions. One with sse-optimizations, and one using 3dnow. Wich do you think would give the most fps?...
Maybee Im out on a limb here, but it would be fun to know what you think...
October 20, 2001 2:46:30 PM

Well, here's what I think...

AMD was smart to ensure Athlon (and Hammer?) has a very strong FPU first and foremost. This ensure excellent performance prettymuch across the board. By adding SSE (and SSE2 on Hammer) AMD further improves their chips' performance. So, AMD, by offering both on their CPUs ensures across the board excellent performance.

Mark-

When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!
October 20, 2001 2:59:24 PM

Perhaps AMD will introduce SSE2 on thier Barton - SOI .13 micron processors to conincide with Hammer in 2H02 but I don't think it will be on the Throughbred.

<font color=purple>~* K6-2 @ 333MHz *~
I don't need a 'Gigahertz' chip to surf the web just yet ;-)</font color=purple>
October 20, 2001 3:12:10 PM

The addition of the SSE instruction set also helps to insure compatibility with some of the current software offerings (within the last year). Sometimes, the software won't perform a certain algorithm unless the SSE capability exists. I know this to be true in some games.
October 20, 2001 4:13:21 PM

first of all AMD buys companies and register patens to their own name, second you dond need strong FPU when there is an instruction instaled into the processor to save you cpu time and cycles for the same math result.

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October 20, 2001 5:36:36 PM

Yup that is my understanding also, based on information I have read on the AMD site and elsewhere. However, AMD *could* surprise us! If they have much of the SSE2 circuitry already designed for Hammer, there's always a possibility, however slim, that Barton could include SSE2. It makes sense, though, that AMD would put the majority of their engineering muscle behind the Hammer.

Mark-

When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!
October 20, 2001 5:40:56 PM

"first of all AMD buys companies and register patens to their own name,"

Please provide a list of companies AMD has purchased recently and registered the patents as their own. I'd love to see it as AMD hasn't made many acquisitions in the last several years. Also, it sounds more like you are confusing VIA with AMD. VIA has indeed purchased several companies mainly for their technology/patents in the last couple years.


" second you dond need strong FPU when there is an instruction instaled into the processor to save you cpu time and cycles for the same math result."

You do if the software you are using doesn't make use of the instruction built into the CPU. In order to utilize SSE, the software must be coded to use it. So, you need both a strong FPU AND SSE/SSE2, with the FPU still taking precedence IMO for at least another year.

Mark-

When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!
October 20, 2001 5:45:24 PM

I'd much rather have a fast FPU than SSE!

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
October 20, 2001 5:45:25 PM

I'd much rather have a fast FPU than SSE!

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
October 21, 2001 12:03:08 AM

So to put it all together, you can say that a strong fpu, like in Athlon, can make the same calculations done in the same amount of time, with a cpu that has weak fpu but instead sse? (and the software optimized for it)
October 21, 2001 12:09:20 AM

Not necessarily.

What it means is that software that does not have SSE optimizations (the majority of software right now) might run faster with a CPU having a strong FPU.

My opinion in the matter is that it makes sense to retain a strong FPU rather than chop an FPU down and add SSE. Continuing this vein...it would be even better to have a strong FPU AND SSE instructions built in.

The Palomino has this setup.

P4 goes a step further down the SSE trail...to SSE2. Currently very few programs take advantage of SSE2 and by the time core programs do, AMD will likely release the HAMMER (K8) chip which will also support SSE2.

That's just my train of thought, of course. Yours may differ.

Mark-

When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!
October 21, 2001 12:17:16 AM

Hi!

So a program optimized for sse, always runs better on a computer that includes sse (palomino) and has a strong fpu, rather then a cpu that has weaker fpu but do have the sse-instructions the program needs?

Also, how many programs and games today are really optimizing their code for sse? And for sse2, 3dnow? Any new games released or now in development that takes the sse/sse2/3dnow to the limits? :-)
October 21, 2001 1:21:45 AM

Games that uses SSE exclusively for low level multi-lighting calculations, such as "Earth 2150", and "The Moon Project" (these are 3D RTS games with alternating day/night cycles). Possibly also "Battlezone II" (3D first person RTS that may be played in low level lighting conditions) as I heard some people describing the colors in this game as being brighter on P3s.

I don't care if the Thunderbird has a strong FPU relative to the PIII. A strong FPU isn't going to do you any good if the game developers decide to cut graphic features for CPUs that don't support SSE. The SSE instruction set wins me over in graphic quality in these games. Both "Battlezone II", and "Earth 2150" can be found in the list of programs that supports SSE on Intel's site.

The Athlon 4 option is really attractive to me. Athlon 4 fills the vacuum created with the desktop P3 series dying out.
October 21, 2001 1:43:36 AM

yea well duh thats the main idia, if they could get companies optimise it would use less FPU, so both main-stream processors supporting a technology should do the trick, its better for developers too as their products run faster then compatative one's when running optimised on an enabled mechine.

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October 21, 2001 1:48:49 AM

I've took some in-game snapshots from "Earth 2150" to illustrate the graphical effects with SSE enabled, and SSE disabled (P3 933 with GeForce).

Image Test Set #A - Pay close attention to the tanks in the images. Without SSE, the units blend in with the surroundings. With SSE, the units are more distinguishable:

<A HREF="http://home.columbus.rr.com/jsemler/images/p933-sse-dis..." target="_new">PIII-933-sse-disabled-a</A>
<A HREF="http://home.columbus.rr.com/jsemler/images/p933-sse-ena..." target="_new">PIII-933-sse-enabled-a</A>

Image Test Set #B - Without SSE, the units and buildings are darker looking. With SSE, the units and buildings are brighter.

<A HREF="http://home.columbus.rr.com/jsemler/images/p933-sse-dis..." target="_new">PIII-933-sse-disabled-b</A>
<A HREF="http://home.columbus.rr.com/jsemler/images/p933-sse-ena..." target="_new">PIII-933-sse-enabled-b</A>

I believe the images that would be displayed on classic Athlon systems (not SSE compatible) will resemble the images above with SSE disabled. This is certainly the case with my C300a system (also not SSE compatible).

[Edit: What I mean by "classic" Athlon is pre-Palomino, yes I know the Athlon XP has SSE]
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by MadCat on 10/21/01 08:48 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
October 21, 2001 2:37:09 AM

That's not a fair comparison though. Game developers shouldn't be sacrificing texture quality in games on computers that don't support SSE.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
October 21, 2001 2:37:11 AM

That's not a fair comparison though. Game developers shouldn't be sacrificing texture quality in games on computers that don't support SSE.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
October 21, 2001 3:01:16 AM

The alternative is to have a game that is unplayably slow on computers that do not have SSE. I believe the developers made the correct choice. SSE really is that much faster than the normal FPU.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
October 21, 2001 6:36:13 AM

the ATHLON XP has SSE.... what are u talking about?

There is no justification to buy a P4 over a Athlon XP

not performance or money wise......

now if u worried about texture colors on a obscure game like EARTH 2150 and choose to overpay for a P4... thats your choice

i wll be playing Return to Castle WOLFenstien and Max Payne at speeds unattainable on current INTEL CPUS
October 21, 2001 7:29:38 AM

SSE/SSE2 is faster than the P3 FPU, yes. The Athlon x87 FPU, however, manages to compete very well with the P4 SSE2 FPU, even running 500MHz slower, consuming less power, and costing only about half as much. The latest Maya benchmarks stand as testimony to that.

Kelledin

"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."
October 21, 2001 7:38:34 AM

SSE2 requires rambus dram to work properly, therefore there will never be proper SSE2 support on the amd platform
October 21, 2001 8:20:46 AM

*snort* heheh...hahahah...

LoL

RotFLMFAO! :lol: 

Ahahahah...heheh...hoooo...

Raystonn, he's all yours. Feel free to break his spirit.

*chuckle*

Kelledin

"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."
October 21, 2001 8:35:48 AM

Nobody can honestly be that stupid. He is just a troll. I estimate his posts will catch a great deal of people and cause a whole lot of replies. Those of us who know he is a troll get to sit back and be in on the joke. The others get to be the targets. ;) 

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
October 21, 2001 1:56:59 PM

WTF are you talking about.

Quote:
SSE2 requires rambus dram to work properly


You ever heard of i845, PX266, 645. There all SDR and DDR mobos SSE2 works just fine.

Nice Nvidia and ATi users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
October 21, 2001 2:15:59 PM

LOL..GOTA STOP LOUGHING TO WRITE POST...LOL!...
damn your a funny guy!
we should make a columb just for you!
and it would run faster as we will put it on RDRAM!

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October 21, 2001 2:43:36 PM

Please don't feed the troll Rcf :) 


When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!
October 21, 2001 2:54:42 PM

-----------
Both "Battlezone II", and "Earth 2150" can be found in the list of programs that supports SSE on Intel's site
------------

I was trying to find that list, but where is it? Can you link me where to find that list maybee? :-)
October 21, 2001 10:47:32 PM

thanks! but the list itself was kind of disappointment.. many links broken, links that works take you the mainhomepage and so on.. I was hoping to see like a table of games/programs and if they supported sse or sse2. Wouldnt it be nice to see a full table done with 3dnow!/3dnowpro!/mmx also included? :-)
Anonymous
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October 21, 2001 11:30:30 PM

MooooooOOOOOHAAAAAAAAAAAaaaahahahahaa

Do you mind if I use this one as a signature ? My current one is a bit dated, and this one is hilarious !

---- Owner of the only Dell computer with an AMD chip
October 22, 2001 1:21:26 AM

My mistake. I had thought the list was organised by software titles. Definitely is out of date. Would be interesting to see such a list with all the SIMD technology included.
!