Master Thrower

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So I just got my 3rd level of master thrower and wanted to get a couple of
rules clarifications to make sure that we are doing things correctly.

#1 - I have Palm throw (allows two daggers to be thrown with each attack)
and just took Sneaky Shot (Which allows a sleight of hand check to get a
sneak attack) - If I do get the sneak attack, do I get sneak attack damage
on each dagger, or just one (like when you get multiple shuriken)?

#2 - If I am hiding - and get multiple ranged attacks, do I only get sneak
attack on the first attack?

So basically, if I have two attacks each round normally, and I am hiding, do
I get 1,2, or 4 sneak attacks in this sceanario?

We have been playing it as I only get 1, but wanted to see if this was the
right way to do it....


Thanx

 

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Master Grunthros the Flatulent wrote:
> So I just got my 3rd level of master thrower and wanted to get a
couple of
> rules clarifications to make sure that we are doing things correctly.
>
> #1 - I have Palm throw (allows two daggers to be thrown with each
attack)
> and just took Sneaky Shot (Which allows a sleight of hand check to
get a
> sneak attack) - If I do get the sneak attack, do I get sneak attack
damage
> on each dagger, or just one (like when you get multiple shuriken)?

Just one, same as with Manyshot.

> #2 - If I am hiding - and get multiple ranged attacks, do I only get
sneak
> attack on the first attack?

No. If your opponent is flatfooted against you, he will _stay_
flatfooted until he gets an action. All attacks you make against him in
your own turn are sneak attacks.

On the other hand, the rules for flatfootedness and surprise are more
than a little hazy. Talk it over with your DM.

> So basically, if I have two attacks each round normally, and I am
hiding, do
> I get 1,2, or 4 sneak attacks in this sceanario?

Definitely not 4. 1 or 2, depending on how you decide to handle
surprise. The rules are really not very helpful on this.

Laszlo

 

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Werebat wrote:
> Sampo Smolander wrote:
> > Master Grunthros the Flatulent <Erich__G@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>#2 - If I am hiding - and get multiple ranged attacks, do I only
get sneak
> >>attack on the first attack?
> >
> >
> > You get sneak attack as long as your enemy is flat footed.
> >
> > When you are hiding, and then attac, then there is first
> > the surprise round. If I remember correctly, you only get
> > one standard (not full) attack on the surprise round.
> > This is sneak attack.
> >
> > Then the normal rounds begin. If you win initiative, you get to
> > attack before your enemy and the enemy is still flat footed.
> > This is a full attack, and if you can do several attacks,
> > all are sneak attacks.
> >
> > But is your enemy wins initiative, he gets to act first and
> > is no longer flat footed.
>
> Grunthos' question is not so simple -- although I had thought that
you
> get sneak attacks for ALL of your attacks if they occur while the
> opponent is flat-footed.
>
> Combat begins with hidden Monster charging Hero A while Hero B was
also
> hiding in the shadows unseen. That was the surprise round. Now
> initiative is rolled, and the order of the combat is Monster, Hero A,

> and Hero B. Monster keeps attacking the hapless Hero A, who is still

> flatfooted when the attacks are made. Then Hero A gets to retaliate.

> THEN hero B, still hiding in the shadows, throws his daggers.
>
> Monster has already acted twice and is clearly NOT flat-footed. But
> Monster also wasn't aware of Hero B when Hero B made her first and
> second attacks in the round. Assuming she is within 30 feet of
Monster
> -- does she get one sneak attack or two?
>
> I liken it to attacking in the middle of the combat while under the
> effects of an Invisibility spell. If your opponent hasn't acted yet,

> he's flatfooted and all of your attacks are sneak attacks. If he has

> acted already, but isn't aware of you, your first attack is a sneak
> attack, at which point you become visible and are no longer eligible
for
> the sneak attacks granted by invisibility.

This is a legitimate way of doing it. It's not the way we do it, but,
like I said, the rules don't help much at all.

> As for the Master Thrower throwing two daggers at once, I believe
that
> only one attack ROLL is made for the two daggers at once, so sneak
> attack damage is applied only once for each "attack" (even if the
attack
> is made with two daggers).

There's no need for fudging here, though; it is an official rule that a
sneak attack Manyshot only gets sneak attack damage once. The same rule
would apply here.

Laszlo

 

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Master Grunthros the Flatulent wrote:
> So I just got my 3rd level of master thrower and wanted to get a couple of
> rules clarifications to make sure that we are doing things correctly.
>
> #1 - I have Palm throw (allows two daggers to be thrown with each attack)
> and just took Sneaky Shot (Which allows a sleight of hand check to get a
> sneak attack) - If I do get the sneak attack, do I get sneak attack damage
> on each dagger, or just one (like when you get multiple shuriken)?

I'm not familiar with the Master Thrower, but usually multiple attacks
with one attack roll only get sneak attack once. That's how it works
with Manyshot and all other similar effects I've ever heard of.

BTW- As far as I know, 3.5e doesn't allow for throwing multiple
shurikens at once. That got left out of the conversion.


> #2 - If I am hiding - and get multiple ranged attacks, do I only get sneak
> attack on the first attack?
>
> So basically, if I have two attacks each round normally, and I am hiding, do
> I get 1,2, or 4 sneak attacks in this sceanario?

As Sampo said in his reply, as long as the target remains flat-footed,
you should get a sneak attack with each roll. However, as I said above,
you'd only get one sneak attack per roll. So you'd get sneak attack
damage twice, assuming you hit.

Example:
8th level rogue
BAB +6
Sneak Attack +4d6
Str 10

Throws 4 daggers with two attack rolls
2 hits = 4d4 + +8d6 damage


At least that's how I'd run it from how you describe.

-Tialan

 

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Master Grunthros the Flatulent <Erich__G@hotmail.com> wrote:
> #2 - If I am hiding - and get multiple ranged attacks, do I only get sneak
> attack on the first attack?

You get sneak attack as long as your enemy is flat footed.

When you are hiding, and then attac, then there is first
the surprise round. If I remember correctly, you only get
one standard (not full) attack on the surprise round.
This is sneak attack.

Then the normal rounds begin. If you win initiative, you get to
attack before your enemy and the enemy is still flat footed.
This is a full attack, and if you can do several attacks,
all are sneak attacks.

But is your enemy wins initiative, he gets to act first and
is no longer flat footed.

 

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Sampo Smolander wrote:
> Master Grunthros the Flatulent <Erich__G@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>#2 - If I am hiding - and get multiple ranged attacks, do I only get sneak
>>attack on the first attack?
>
>
> You get sneak attack as long as your enemy is flat footed.
>
> When you are hiding, and then attac, then there is first
> the surprise round. If I remember correctly, you only get
> one standard (not full) attack on the surprise round.
> This is sneak attack.
>
> Then the normal rounds begin. If you win initiative, you get to
> attack before your enemy and the enemy is still flat footed.
> This is a full attack, and if you can do several attacks,
> all are sneak attacks.
>
> But is your enemy wins initiative, he gets to act first and
> is no longer flat footed.

Grunthos' question is not so simple -- although I had thought that you
get sneak attacks for ALL of your attacks if they occur while the
opponent is flat-footed.

Combat begins with hidden Monster charging Hero A while Hero B was also
hiding in the shadows unseen. That was the surprise round. Now
initiative is rolled, and the order of the combat is Monster, Hero A,
and Hero B. Monster keeps attacking the hapless Hero A, who is still
flatfooted when the attacks are made. Then Hero A gets to retaliate.
THEN hero B, still hiding in the shadows, throws his daggers.

Monster has already acted twice and is clearly NOT flat-footed. But
Monster also wasn't aware of Hero B when Hero B made her first and
second attacks in the round. Assuming she is within 30 feet of Monster
-- does she get one sneak attack or two?

I liken it to attacking in the middle of the combat while under the
effects of an Invisibility spell. If your opponent hasn't acted yet,
he's flatfooted and all of your attacks are sneak attacks. If he has
acted already, but isn't aware of you, your first attack is a sneak
attack, at which point you become visible and are no longer eligible for
the sneak attacks granted by invisibility.

As for the Master Thrower throwing two daggers at once, I believe that
only one attack ROLL is made for the two daggers at once, so sneak
attack damage is applied only once for each "attack" (even if the attack
is made with two daggers). Sorta like how several links in a spiked
chain may hit the target at once, but you don't get a sneak attack for
each and every link that hits -- just the one for the one attack roll
you made with the chain.

- Ron ^*^

 

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"Master Grunthros the Flatulent" <Erich__G@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:EUh9e.14078$Z73.12132@lakeread04...
> So I just got my 3rd level of master thrower and wanted to get a couple of
> rules clarifications to make sure that we are doing things correctly.
>
> #1 - I have Palm throw (allows two daggers to be thrown with each attack)
> and just took Sneaky Shot (Which allows a sleight of hand check to get a
> sneak attack) - If I do get the sneak attack, do I get sneak attack damage
> on each dagger, or just one (like when you get multiple shuriken)?

Once.
>
> #2 - If I am hiding - and get multiple ranged attacks, do I only get sneak
> attack on the first attack?
>
If the opponent can't see you, but isn't flat-footed, you only get
sneak attack on the first attack (as you reveal yourself when you attack).

If you are hiding to surprise the opponent, he will be flat-footed during
the
first round of combat (until he gets an action), and you would get
sneak attack on both attacks.

Geoff.

 

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laszlo_spamhole@freemail.hu wrote:

> > I liken it [full attacking from hiding] to attacking in the middle of
> > the combat while under the effects of an Invisibility spell. If your
> > opponent hasn't acted yet, he's flatfooted and all of your attacks are
> > sneak attacks. If he has acted already, but isn't aware of you, your
> > first attack is a sneak attack, at which point you become visible and
> > are no longer eligible for the sneak attacks granted by invisibility.
>
> This is a legitimate way of doing it. It's not the way we do it, but,
> like I said, the rules don't help much at all.

Just for the record, I'll side with Ron here.


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr