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I underclocked my XP1800 to get it stable

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November 1, 2001 4:58:15 PM

Hi!
I hope you can help me with this problem!

I have just bought the Epox 8KHA+ mainboard (with the new via kt266a) and placed my new athlon xp 1800+ on it. On top of that, I had some arctic silver and then the silverado heatsink and fan (very good reviews here at thg). I also bought 128+256 mb of pc2100 ddr-ram. I have no casefan yet.

The problem is, when running it on full speed (1533 mhz) the system hangs as soon as it stays under heavy cpu-load for a while. For example, Toast goes for a few secs and then bye-bye... Seti handles a few minutes, then bye-bye...
The cpu-temp is strangely a bit high I guess, its around 50-57 depending on what I've done. (in the thg review it did 38c) I run it without the extra 8/10/12v cables so I get around 3300 rpm.
First I thought it could be bad drivers, f*cked os, f*cked bios etc, so I upgraded the bios to the latest from Epox, and reinstalled w2kpro. I also tested other graphic-cards with and without via4in1 drivers. No difference...

Now the only option was to underclock the cpu, so I did.
Now I'm running it at 125*11,5 (1438mhz), the bus at 250 and the postscreen in bios reports pc1600 memorys.
Toast have been running over 35 minutes, so I guess its stable now at this configuration.
How can this be? Did I get bad memory/cpu? What can I do to run my new computer at full speed?
Please, no 'buy intel' crap, only serious answers/thougts...
November 1, 2001 5:10:49 PM

On top of that, I had some arctic silver and then the silverado heatsink and fan /////its around 50-57 depending on what I've done.

Some thing dont work with your colling systeme.You are way too high.

Wisdom dont come with time
Meilleur chance la prochaine fois
November 1, 2001 5:19:26 PM

yeah I thought so to... but what should I do? Remove everything and put it all back with new arctic silver?
Return the cpu/memory and get a replacement for it?
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November 1, 2001 5:26:00 PM

Those temps are indeed rather high. That case fan...GET IT ASAP! Case fans are very important with modern CPUs.

It also seens very, very likely that your memory can't take full speed...

Is your memory rated for CAS2.5 or CAS2? If it's CAS2-rated, see what happens if you set it for CAS2.5. If it's CAS2.5-rated, make sure you're not accidentally running it as CAS2.

Also, what brand/wattage power supply do you have?

Kelledin
<A HREF="http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/" target="_new">LFS</A>: "You don't eat or sleep or mow the lawn; you just hack your distro all day long."
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
November 1, 2001 5:32:43 PM

Buy a better PSU. Not all 300's are the same. Make sure your PSU is from AMD's list of approved PSU's. Or just buy a PC power and cooling 350 or better, Enermax465 (431w) etc. With the fastest cpu's from EITHER side (intel/amd) I'd only want very high end PSU's.

First you might buy a delta 38cfm fan and see if HEAT is your problem (7000rpm). They are $10-12 and are an easy change. Also running the cpu cooler won't hurt you anyway. If one of my customer's machines runs over 52 or so at load I usually install a different fan, or better heatsink (even though amd says they won't die until 90-95 cel). Heat could be the issue with lockups being your main problem. If it's rebooting then its usually a weak PSU (though it can also produce tons of lockups if weak).

What make/model/watt is your PSU. If you can list the 3.3v, 5v. and 12v leads (amps listed). Also the combined 3.3+5v total wattage max. Then I don't even need to know if it's from AMD's list. The list is really only for people that can't figure it out on their own, and is by no means a COMPLETE list (just the ones they've gotten around to checking so far).

Hope this helps,

Shibumi
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
November 1, 2001 6:56:46 PM

The Silverado isn't meant to cool something that runs so hot, is it?
November 1, 2001 8:58:28 PM

Erm... The XP runs cooler than an equivently clocked Athlon (well, if a 1.53GHz Athlon existed). Therefore, one can infer that if it properly cooled an overclocked Athlon 1400, which will run a lot hotter than an XP1800, it will be able to cool off an XP1800 no problem. Something else is up, and I would guess that without casefans, the case temp is too high, meaning that the heat pulled off the CPU die has no place to go. By underclocking, the heat off the die was probably reduced just enough to keep the system stable.

-SammyBoy
November 1, 2001 9:03:13 PM

What is the reported voltage? If its over 1.75v then try to lower it some. Try 1.7 and see if it still boots and then 1.65... if you can run stable @ a lower voltage the lower the temp will be. My duron can run @ 1.3v at the normal 600mhz 100% stable. See if you cant do the same with your XP1800.

AMD for Life!
November 1, 2001 9:27:30 PM

Well, I know on my motherboard, a Asus A7A266, if I try to drop the FSB speed below 133, my divider changes, and my PCI and AGP buses are overclocked. If that were true for your motherboard, you're PCI will be at 42Mhz and AGP will be at 83Mhz. That's horribly overclocked, and might make everything else in your system unstable. While you might be able to run Toast, other things that rely on sound, modem, or video, might crash very quickly, or have horrible artifacts. So, for right now, get at least a couple of case fans, and try to redo your heatsink. Clean off the artic silver, and then apply a nearly transparent film of it onto the die, and reseat the heatsink. If that doesn't help, try new memory sticks. Crucial is a good place to go for cheap, high-quality sticks of RAM. Last I checked, it's $34 for a 256MB stick of PC2100.

-SammyBoy
November 1, 2001 11:53:12 PM

the silverado is a sweet cooler, but its not reccommended for anything about an Athlon 1.2.

course the XP's run cooler, but not to the extent that u can use it on a 1800+ (1.53Mhz)

i strongly reccomend u get a better one cooler.

what you have is the classic case of cpu temp to high cauzing instability.

Is that a Northwoody in your pocket or are you just eXPited to see me?
November 2, 2001 1:42:42 AM

hi! Thanks for all your help and answers!
This is an update for what I've done now:

I mounted a chassifan and its working great. I can feel it sucking air in the front of the chassi and pumping it out on the back. My harddrives lowered their temp as much as 10 degrees! (using siguardian hddtemp).
The system temp in bios is reported to be 32C. Still, no change of the cputemperature, its running at aprox 50-52 and sometimes a few more degrees.

I changed memory with a friend. It still freezes... I tested both cas 2.0 and 2.5 in bios, no difference. I tested changing the voltage for the memory and cpu, from lowest to highest, still freezing with high cpu-load.
I also borrowed a 300w psu from him, I will try it tomorrow.

The current psu came with my chassi from chieftech. I heard their chassis is top quality so therefore I thought their psu would be great to. This one is 340w and runs very silent.
I also tested the toast program when the system was cold-started, no difference...

The manual for the silveradofan and heatsink says it can handle the athlon 1500mhz within amd's specs using the 8 volt cable. They list the 10 and 12 volt cables if you want more power. I use none if this and connects it directly to the motherboard.

Shibumi:
The psu is a chieftec model hpc-340-201.
+3.3v -> 28a
+5v -> 30a
+12v -> 15a
-5v -> 0.5a 2.5w
-12v -> 1a 12w
+5vsb -> 2a 10w



I'll change the psu tomorrow, and if that doesnt work, I will try to clean the heatsink and cpu from grease and apply new. If this 2 steps doesnt help, is it more likely the cpu or motherboard that could be the problem?
November 2, 2001 2:29:25 AM

being the PSU king around here, *grin*,
the rating of the chieftec looks pretty decent and more than ok for what u have...
still... it could be malfunctioning somehow.
and checking it by using another DOES remove one possible cause.

and yes... connect that silverado up to the 12V line asap... see if that has any effect.

Is that a Northwoody in your pocket or are you just eXPited to see me?
November 2, 2001 4:06:32 AM

Might want to check your memory timings. 2 is faster, but 3 tends to be more stable.

Also, only use one memory stick at a time. If removing one at a time fixes the problem, then perhaps there is an issue with the memory timing.

ED.
On a second passthrough on your first post, I noted that you said the bios only detected PC1600 RAM. How sure are you that you got PC2100 ram? Some internet dealers will try to pull a fast one on you.

I got suposedly a PC133 DIMM from one place, they said that PC133 didn't nessessarily run at 133 Mhz, and when I returned it, the part was listed at 100Mhz, where my origional invoice was listed as 133 Mhz. Reasons to be carefull when you buy mem online.

60 FPS, 70 FPS, 80 FPS Crash!
Daylight comes and I have to go to work :frown: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by bront on 11/02/01 00:11 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
November 2, 2001 4:23:54 AM

Also about memory, make sure they are the same brands..always a common flaw
November 2, 2001 4:23:55 AM

Also about memory, make sure they are the same brands..always a common flaw
November 2, 2001 4:37:53 AM

what is your core (cpu) voltage? I seem to recall the XP needs 1.4 or something (please check yourself and don't take my word on this before you do anything drastic as I'm not 100%), whilst many boards will not support lower than 1.65V. If your XP is getting 1.7/1.75V or more, then that is why it is toasty warm.

-* <font color=red> Under Offer </font color=red> *-
email for application details
November 2, 2001 4:51:38 AM

I've also got an XP1800+ and it does run hot - about 69 under duress (according to my Asus A7V266-E mobo) but I've had no instability with it. Theoretically 90 is danger zone and mobo default for throttling is 75, so I don't think temperature is your problem.

Dai
November 2, 2001 6:22:41 AM

His problem is the silverado, it cant handle anything over a 1.2ghz tbird, especially without a case fan, and the 1.53 paolo is about a 1.33ghz tbird heat wise. Is the silverado running at max fan speed?

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
November 2, 2001 6:26:06 AM

Snorkilis there is your problem, stop switching crap out and plug the silverado on the 12 volt fan supply, at the slow speed it can barely handle a 1ghz tbird, youre trying the heat of a 1.33ghz tbird, put that sucker on high and watch your troubles dissapear.


To the last guy, 69 is not your real temp, asus mobos read temps high, I would guess yours is running around 50-55c which is fine for non overclocking.



~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
November 2, 2001 5:20:28 PM

Heh, Another happy AMD owner =)

Go buy another one and maybe it wont freeze.

You saved 5 bucks, sure was worth the savings huh?

AMD needs to improve the design a little more, this is unacceptable in the professional world of comupting.

Imagine if you built that machine for a customer, a fricken nightmare for support. Your profit would have been negated by return visits to troubleshoot the "freeze anomoly".

GL with your POS system.
November 2, 2001 5:47:31 PM

hi again!

The latest news is that its working 100% stable after running toast for 40 minutes and running it on 1533 mhz!!!

What I did? I removed everything from the computer down to the last motherboardscrew. I removed all the grease between the heatsink and the cpu, cleaned it and lay some new, and mounted everything back to its places again.
Thats the solution! The same hardware used ofcourse.

Thanks for all your help trying to assist me!
November 2, 2001 6:03:43 PM

Sounds like there was just some loose connection somewhere. I wonder if that solution would work for the guy with the 69C comp?

60 FPS, 70 FPS, 80 FPS Crash!
Daylight comes and I have to go to work :frown:
November 2, 2001 6:04:32 PM

The new laying of thermal goo probably kicked you back under the threshold, good fix.

FUGGER, another case of you opening your mouth a tad too early.

PS: he saved 400 bucks. (the cost of a 2.1ghz p4 which he has the equvalent of now heh)

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
November 2, 2001 6:06:57 PM

AMD Athlon XP 1800+ - $200
P4 2.0 Ghz - $400

Save only $5 huh?

60 FPS, 70 FPS, 80 FPS Crash!
Daylight comes and I have to go to work :frown:
November 2, 2001 6:10:57 PM

Seems like I tell everyone this.

When you have instability the first thing you want to check is if it is heat related.

Open your case and use a room fan to blow lots of air into it. Redo your tests and monitor how things (if anything) change. Is the system now stable? If it is then your problem is definitely a heat issue.

If it turns out to be a heat problem then see how temperatures have changed. How much do the CPU idle and load temperatures change? What happens to the ambient/motherboard temperature? If all temperature readings drop a lot then you probably could do with more or more powerful case cooling fans.

By the way, what is your present ambient/motherboard temperature?

It is pretty normal for the CPU temps to be somewhere around 20 degrees above ambient. If ambient is is around 35 then CPU temps would be around 55 but if you can get ambient temps down to 25 your looking at 45 degrees or so for the CPU. The more you can lower the ambient temperature the better.

<b>We are all beta testers!</b><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by phsstpok on 11/02/01 03:21 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
November 2, 2001 11:35:24 PM

He was sucking wind, and prob still is(a whole 40 minutes!!!). just imagine if he sold the POS to a customer. waste all the time trying to find the problem and tell the customer "I took it all apart and didnt find a problem, but its magicly fixed" - GG

Like someone posted in another thread, how can you even consider performance when the machines have instability problems. let alone call the one with the problems the winner. - in reguards to THG testing.

P4 1.5Ghz $133 better performance than the XP1800+ in most applications.

AMD XP 1800+ (because Mhz isnt everything they have to "artificially inflate" the ID of the processor to fool people into thinking its 1800Mhz) $197

-$64... P4 wins!
November 3, 2001 12:23:00 AM

Quote:
P4 1.5Ghz $133 better performance than the XP1800+ in most applications.

That must be why the P4 2GHz spanks the AthlonXP 1800+ in just about every real-world benchmark in existence. Oh wait--no it doesn't, it gets reamed. RoFL :lol: 

Instability? I'm still waiting for my T-bird to crash, or hiccup, or anything...I better not hold my breath on that. :tongue:

Kelledin
<A HREF="http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/" target="_new">LFS</A>: "You don't eat or sleep or mow the lawn; you just hack your distro all day long."
November 3, 2001 12:37:11 AM

Right now my cpu temp after using the computer at 100% running seti and playing games for the past few hours, is 49 celsius. The system itself 32 celsius. My 4 harddrives is between 33-36 degrees. And the computer is very silent! Right now, I'm more irritaded over the fan in my switch than over the computer.. :-)

I remounted the 8v cables to the silveradofan. The silverado is as you can see Matisaro, no problems with the 1800+.

I must have done something wrong the first time really, its no problems with the hardware properly set up as it is now. So give it a rest Fugger.. :-)
November 3, 2001 1:13:33 AM

Great that the system's finally running well. :smile: If you feel up to it after all you've done, you can now see about tweaking...

You could probably get CPU temps even lower if you get better cooling in the case...32C is a pretty high case temperature. Did you get that case fan yet? That should help immensely.

Kelledin
<A HREF="http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/" target="_new">LFS</A>: "You don't eat or sleep or mow the lawn; you just hack your distro all day long."
November 3, 2001 1:22:28 AM

yes, I did get the casefan. With that, I was able to lower my temperature on the harddrives 10 degrees and even more! The cpu has fallen from 57c at the highest to 49c (and thats after remounting everything too). I only did get one, but I have space for two if I feel I need it. Overclocking would be fun, especially cause I got the best board for it (at least what I know of).
November 13, 2001 4:52:57 AM

Im running an XP1800+ on a Abit KG7-Raid at about 48C at 100% load. My case temp is 30C, I have an 80mm front case fan and an 60mm rear case fan rated at 39 cfm and 22 cfm respectively. On top of my CPU is the retail 1800XP heatsink from AMD. I would try and run some case fans and get your temps down a bit before I would go and start pulling components and such. My heatsink and fan is contacting the die through the thermal pad that comes on the hs/fan. I would recommend checking the connection between the hs/fan and the die again to make sure you have a firm seal. You might have a bit to much artic silver in there and its not making a very good transfer, but enough to keep the chip from burning up. I would think that you would be getting lower temps then I with an aftermarket cooler and artic silver. Also like somebody suggested check your memory Cas timings. I can run flask mpeg for 4-5 hours at full load at 48-50C without hang or reboot so that temp range should be fine, your just a bit over it.

Osanai te ni sashinobetai zutto kitto eien ni....!!!
November 13, 2001 4:58:53 AM

What cooler are you using that you are running at 69C? I have never had mine over 50C running flask for hours on end with the stock AMD cooler.

Osanai te ni sashinobetai zutto kitto eien ni....!!!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
November 13, 2001 9:17:14 AM

>P4 1.5Ghz $133 better performance than the XP1800+ in most >applications.

Oh Fugger.. please.. at least *try* to be credible..
Please show me benchmarks of a credible source of at least 3 common real world apps where a P4 1.5 beats an XP1800. Good luck ! Should not be hard since "most" benchmarks would show this, hu.. yeah right

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
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