My Do-it-yourself PC Part 2

[richieaok]

Originally I planned to build a computer about 8 months ago. That never happened because I got side tracked by some other business. If you would like to read my original "My Do-it-yourself PC" thread for reference click this link (don't reply to my old thread though, reply to this one).

<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=faq&notfound=1&code=1" target="_new">http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=faq&notfound=1&code=1</A>

Keep in mind that most of the posts in that thread are outdated. That is why I have started this new thread. People were getting confused by thinking that those were all new posts. Anyways, I am now starting mostly from scratch in selecting my components. Technology has advanced quickly in these past months.

Too bad the original do-it-yourself pc article by Tom's Hardware never had a follow up like it was suppose to. Unless it just happens to be coming really really really... late! ARRRRGGGHHH! Either way I still plan to go through with building my pc.

My desired specifications for it have changed though. I would like to build a complete system for under $1000 including S&H and any tax. Unfortunately I have become unemployeed lately so I'm on a budget (now contemplating whether to look for new job or go back to school, this majorly sucks!). I plan to purchase the brunt of the items online using my measly $500 credit limit. The only items I definately wont buy online are those that cost a [-peep-]-load for S&H (a 19" monitor for instance) which would obviously be a big waste of money. Currently I am starting over on researching the optimal components. Foremost I want a computer with a good price to performance ratio. This is not the only factor though. A good price/performance ratio considering all the stuff I want. It should be easy to work with, upgradable, overclockable, have quality accesories, and be stylish. I don't have a excedingly big budget to do this. So far this is what I am thinking of getting.

Motherboard: Nvidia nForce 220-d/420-d? or Leadtek WinFast 7350KDA (If it goes for sale in US. So far I have only found it being sold in Sinagpore)?

Both of these boards are highly integrated boards with good performance. I'm sure you have all read about the nForce so I wont explain it. On other hand the Leadtek WinFast 7350KDA is a little know board based on the Sis 735 chipset. The same chipset as the very popular ECS K7S5A. The difference is that it performs better, has more upgradability (pci and memory slots), and much better overclocking capabilites. If you would like to learn more follow this link for a review of it: <A HREF="http://www.vr-zone.com/reviews/Leadtek/7350KDA" target="_new">http://www.vr-zone.com/reviews/Leadtek/7350KDA</A>.

CPU: AMD Athlon (b) T-bird 900 MHz OEM $52 from <A HREF="http://newegg.com" target="_new">http://newegg.com</A>

I know that the Athlon XP cheap are relatively cheap now but they don't have the best price/performance ratio (acutally the Duron 750 has the best but it wouldn't be powerfull enough to keep up with my other components). Besides that I think that it would be a bit overkill to pair a top of the line XP processor with the mid-range video card I plan to get (GeoForce 2). It wouldn't take advantage of that extra processing power anyways. Some time down the line I might upgrade it to a XP processor with GeoForce 3 once the prices goes down. On other hand I might just end up buying an X-box (or some other next gen console) for gaming needs and just use my computer for mostly computer specific things.

CPU thermal paste: Artic Silver II $6 from newegg.com

CPU fan: ?

System memory: 256MB PC2100 DDR SDRAM $30 from <A HREF="http://crucial.com" target="_new">http://crucial.com</A> (free shipping! yippie yay!)

Case/power supply: AMK 292-3333 $99 (without power supply) from <A HREF="http://www.amkcomputers.bc.ca/18_292.htm" target="_new">http://www.amkcomputers.bc.ca/18_292.htm</A>

or

Antec SX1030B SX1040B Case + Upgraded Enermax EG351P VE power Supply $99 from newegg.com

I think that a good case and power supply is an important investment. This is what I have to look at every day. This is what holds all of my components. This is what makes my system reliable. Both of these cases are black to match my black computer desk. Most likely I will get the Antec case since it is cheaper (it already includes a quality power supply) and it has a lockable cover on the front to keep my family off of my computer (hehe).

Graphics Card: ABIT SILURO T400 NVIDIA GEFORCE2 64MB WITH TV-OUT - RETAIL $71 from newegg.com

Floppy Drive: Salvaged from garbaged computer $0

Hard Disk: MAXTOR 6L040J2 DIAMONDMAX PLUS D740X 40GB HDD - OEM $91 from newegg.com

DVD-ROM Drive: LITE-ON LTD-163 SPEED - RETAIL 16X DVD ROM 48X CD-ROM $51 from newegg.com

CD-R: ?

Sound Card: ?

Speakers: ?

Modem/broadband connection: ?

Mouse: ?

Keyboard: ?

Monitor: Optiquest (Viewsonic OEM) 19" or 21" monitor?

This is one of the most important components IMHO. I want a a big screen with high resolution/refresh rate, good image quality, and of course good build quality. Why settle for a cheap and inferior monitor when it is the gate to my computer?

OS: M$ Windows XP Home Edition OEM $100 from newegg.com

Not much of a choice here really. I have a spare 8 gig hard drive lying around so maybe I should make a dual boot system with Linux on the spare drive?

Any suggestions/reccomendations are welcome.


~richieaok

 

[lhgpoobaa]

didnt i allready reply to this post??? lol

think u can do a cheaper mobo than the new nforce. something based on the sis735 or kt266a chipsets.

CPU... do better than the athlon 900. get something in the athlon 'C' range. u wont be dissapointed.

cpu HSF... fop32-1, any cheap midrange hsf will be fine.

ram is good.

yes i do recommend enermax PSU's. you know your getting quality with them.

dvd is ok. but i got a slot laoding pioneer 106s, so i gotta reccomend that.

cd-rw. well 20x and 24x are all the rage now, so you should be able to pick up a 12x or 16x very cheaply. and who really cares if it takes a couple of extra minutes to burn a cd? my ricoh 12x10x32x burns in 6-7mins, and has NEVER made a dud, except for when the imput file was corrupted, but u cant blame that on the burner.

soundcard...well if you were going sdram i would reccomend the iwill kk266-plus. excellent onboard sound. otherwise sb live or similar

speakers? BAH. i dont bother with crapply little speakers with no dynamic range. i run my line out directly to my HI-FI *grins* YUMMY

monitor; optiquest yes, viewsonic yes, same company i think. 17" is kinda standard now, 19" bit pricey.. 21" very pricey. dont u want costs down?

winXP? ugh. no thanx. win2k is very fast stable and effective. powerful too.


Is that a Northwoody in your pocket or are you just eXPited to see me?

 

[lamer_gamer]

I've just recently built two comps. One is an AMD system (for me!), the other, Intel Celeron, I just finished with some old parts lying around (for my kid). So first let me say: get ready for some fun! I had a great time, although sometimes it was frustrating since I've never built one before.
I have the Antec SX1030- Awesome case! Plenty of room, fans, and you can't go wrong with Enermax (sweet that it's included with the case)!
I would rethink your videocard purchase. I checked it out and it's an MX-200 card. I think you'll be very disappointed in it's performance. Then again, if you get an N-Force mobo, you don't need a vid card!
Do you really need/want a DVD drive? They may be cool, but (this is just my 2 cents), I wouldn't watch DVDs on my comp. If it was a laptop, that would be different!
For a hsf, the Thermalright SK-6 is getting rave reviews. It's all copper, but not quite as heavy as other Cu heatsinks. You can decide if you want the Delta fan or a quieter fan (I couldn't stand the Delta!!!).
Sound card? Again, if you get the N-Force mobo, you won't need one.
I think any keyboard will do you just fine. See if you can find an old one to use (like your floppy drive, $0.00 is a great price!)
Mouse? Get whatever feels good in your hand. You'll be using it a lot, and you want it to be comfy!
One question I have for you is, do you currently have a computer (you mentioned a "garbaged one", don't know if it's yours or not)? If you do, is there <i>anything</i> you can salvage from it? Doing that made getting started a lot easier and cheaper for me (hehe, cheap and easy)! Remember, you don't have to go whole hog all at once!
Good luck, mate!

 

[richieaok]

Hey, it is a slightly different post now then the one you replied to before (hehe). I have updated it a bit since copying over from the old thread.

You are right about nForce being a bit pricey. For all its features though it may be worth it. Great integrated sound and descent integrated video along with other integrated extras (no need to explain it all). Did you read the review on the Leadtek Winfast 7350KDA motherboard? I think it would be the best Sis 735 based chipset for my computer. If only I could find a place selling it in the US. I e-mailed the distributor who supplied the board for that review and he told me:
"
Dear Richard,



Yes, we are glad to inform you that this motherboard is widely available in Singapore especially at Sim Lim Square building. The RRP is $199 as a reference for you. If in any doubt, please feel free to contact me.



Best Regards,

Philip Seng
"

Darn it, I don't live in Singapore. The US SRP would be about $110 although I could surely find it cheaper. Anyone let me know if they know a U.S. website selling this motherboard.

Hmmmm... There is a big price jump going from Athlon 'B' to 'C' but not as much of one going from 'C' to XP. If I was going to spend the extra $ on a processor I might as while buy the XP. So I still think the Athlon 'B' 900 will be fine for me. Let me know if you disagree with this and why if so.

Yeah, no need for me to go over board on the hsf.

Yep.

My thoughts exactly.

Slot loading? That is the kind without a tray right?

True. I found a 16x drive for pretty cheap at (bet you can't guess) newegg.com. It is a LITE-ON LTR-16102B 16x10x40 CD-RW - RETAIL 16X Record, 10X Re-write & 40X Max Reading Data Transfer Rate which costs $73. Not bad.

Unless I get a motherboard with good integrated sound (AC '97 doesn't count!) I will get a sound blaster live.

Totally! My sisters computer (which I am now using) has some crappy little mouse speakers. I don't think I'll be getting a HI-FI (for obvious reasons) but I will be sure to get at least a decent set of speakers. Any suggestions?

Yeah I want prices down but keeping in mind that some things justify spending more because of their importance. Last time I checked out monitors (8 months ago) I found that I could get a Optiquest Q95 21" monitor for about $250. Even at that price I could fit it in my budget (although prices have surely gone down since then). The monitor is something I plan to keep through out the lifespan of the system. It's not like I would discard (put it aside or sell it for a loss) a $150 17" monitor later to upgrade to a 21". That would be a big waste of money so I might as while get the big boy right away.

That is all true about Win2K but does it play games? Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember reading a quote some where in which Microsoft admitted that Win2K was incomplete. WinXP is suppose to combine the stability, effectiveness, and power of Win2k along with an improved UI and backwards compatiblity with older OSes. All the reviews I have read on the OS are favorable over all (9 or 10 rating out of a possible 10). Doesn't sound bad to me. Then again, I've never tried either Win2K or WinXP. All I know is that the WinME my sister's computer is currently running sucks arse! What kind of crap was Microsoft trying to pull by making this OS (WinME)? Anyways, why is Win2k better then WinXP?

Thanks for the advice so far. I look foward to more.

~richieaok

 

[lhgpoobaa]

slot loading. yep. no tray.

the reason why i got that drive was actually for the slot loading coolness, and it does better dae than my old cd-rom. only one who really has slot loading is pioneer though.
also, down the line if i wanna watch dvd's im ready to go
if you want lots of drive reviews, check out
<A HREF="http://www.storagereview.com" target="_new">http://www.storagereview.com</A>
bound to have your drive, and sister ones reviewed.

speakers... hmmm...
i had some altec lansing ones a while back. they were ok.
problem with small speakers is that by their very nature they cant cover the full dynamic
range. my lansing's were great for the high end, and the sub woofer good for the low end, but there was this spot in the middle dynamic range that really lacked.
my advice... listen to them. dont let youself be rushed.
apparently the best quality around is Kirspsh.
(dunno about spelling lol)

iwill mobo's have excellent onboard sound, no AC97 crap. capable of full eax and 5.1 surround sound.

win2k... hmmm.
with modern games there are no hastles.
quake3
UT
red faction
serious sam
star lancer

with any games made before the year 2000, u may have trouble.
oh... and forget dos based games in win2k.
the thing which has converted me to win2k is its stability.
once i worked out the bugs it just doesnt crash.
been running for 2 weeks without a reboot. just pop it into hibernate mode when i want to shut down.

P.S. i still think its gonna be worth your while going for a 1Ghz+ athlon thundabird C.
they are so cheap now


Is that a Northwoody in your pocket or are you just eXPited to see me?

 

[richieaok]

Thanks for the advice lamer_gamer. This is going to be the first computer I have ever built also. I think that I am decided on the case then. The Antec SX1030 looks perfect. Ohh noo! Good thing you alerted me about the video card. I better check it out. They described it as a Geoforce 2. Tricky Tricky! I hate it when websites do that (make you think a item is something it is not). Maybe I should just get a CD-R for now. Not many programs take advantage of DVD drives anyways (almost none!). I agree with comfort being the key for a mouse and keyboard. About the "garbaged one", I actually have 2 non functioning computers that I found in a garbage bin. A old classic pentium system and a old K6 system. A lot of stuff is missing on the systems but there are still some usable parts. Hopefully I wont get too frustrated when building my computer. I want to have fun like you did!

~richieaok

 

[btvillarin]

I think you should get a CD-Writer, also. I've read two reviews for the Lite-On LTR-24102B 24x10x40.
<A HREF="http://www.storagereview.com/welcome.pl/http://www.storagereview.com/articles/200110/20011024LTR-24102B_1.html" target="_new">StorageReview.com</A>
<A HREF="http://www.rojakpot.com/Reviews/Lite-On_241040/241040_01.htm" target="_new">Rojak Pot's Review</A>

I might wanna get this one to upgrade from my 8x CD-Writer. I just bought a 60GB HD to supplement my IBM 75GXP (since the hearing of failures and stuff), so I'll have to hold off on it. But, I think it's a very good one to get. I looked it up for you, to find one close to Wisconsin. This store's in Ohio.

<A HREF="http://www.micropro.com/item.htm?item_id=CDLI241040&product=CD/DVD Drives" target="_new">Lite-On CD-Writer with SMART-Burn Technology - 24x10x40</A>

If you wanna look it up at <A HREF="http://www.pricewatch.com" target="_new">PriceWatch</A> yourself, type "LTR-24102B" (sans quotes) in the search box.

BTW, I based my system practically on the article, too. With the change of getting an A7V133, the lack of a DVD player, and a cheap graphics card, I was very pleased.

Hope you have fun...

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=13406" target="_new">My System Rig</A>

 

[bront]

The Antec cases are nice. I chose a SX-840 over the SX-1040 because I didn't need the lockable face plate, and underneaith the faceplate I thought looked ugly. If you don't need black, go for the 1240. Or find a 1040 somewhere else in black. The Antec 400W supply is quite nice.

They have easy snap in clips for 5 case fans. 2 by the CPU, 2 in the front, and 1 on the detachable HD mount.

60 FPS, 70 FPS, 80 FPS Crash!
Daylight comes and I have to go to work :frown:

 

[richieaok]

OK... Here is my response to the last few posts.

Thanks for the storagereview link LHGPooBaa. It looks like a good site. Ideally I would like to have a computer that could play older games also. I use to have a computer back in the day but now it's by my mom's house (I moved). The games are at my house though waiting for the day when I get another computer. Does anyone know if WinXP is stable yet? Just wondering because M$ had a tendency to release operating systems which need service packs (nice way of saying they need many bug fixes) in order to run correctly. I read a couple of reviews from magazines that said it ran alright but I would like to hear (actually read) what average people's experiences with Windows XP have been. About your hint LHGPooBaa to get an Athlon 'C' T-bird... I took a second look at the prices and although most are too much of a price jump from the Athlon 'B', the low end 1GHz T-bird looks cheap enough for me to consider. Why would anyone buy a 1GHz Duron (not that I ever considered to) when a 1GHz T-bird costs about the same? Ludicrous!

Yes btvillarin, I do plan to get a CD-Writer but probably a little slower one (cheap 16x one). The LTR-24102B is nearly 40 bucks more then the one I had in mind so I will have to figure whether or not it's worth it. Mabye?? Thanks for the info and links. Nice system by the way (sans the monitor).

I will look into the other cases when I get a chance bront. Does the SX-1040 usually come with a 400w power supply by default? I thought it was 300W. Do you think my 330W will be enough? Peace out!

~richieaok

 

[btvillarin]

If you have Windows 98 lyin' around, I think it would be safe to say to use that. Even better would be Windows 2000, since it's more stable. But, if you have to buy XP, it'd be a good idea to wait until they get any bugs out.

I think it's worth it to get the Athlon "C". Better performance (even though a "B" is still good stuff...)

Just so you know, if you get something cheap, and it screws up, I think you'll regret it. I mean, wouldn't you rather spend $40 more bucks to get a quality product that'll save you less hassle? Just a thought...

If you want to overclock, I think a good safe recommendation is the Swiftech MCX370-0A. It's easy to install, not gonna break the core, and is a superb performer. If quiet is your aim, <A HREF="http://www.quietpc.com" target="_new">QuietPC.com</A> should be your next stop.

About my monitor, it's a piece of c...rud. Luckily, I setup was able to get my old computer fixed so that my mom can start getting computer literate. So, that old monitor I was using is going back to her. I'm using this 19" one from work, that isn't being used right now. I gotta tell ya...it makes all the difference. I actually feel like I'm on a "high-performance" computer. If you can, a 21" would be awesome. (Aren't you on a tight budget though?)

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=13406" target="_new">My System Rig</A>

 

[richieaok]

Nah, all I have lying around is old Windows 95. I have an uncle though who knows a hack code for the registration of Windows 98 so I could ask him for a copy. Now I understand why M$ has stricter copy write protection on WinXP. I think I will probably just be honest though and buy a new OS (Win2k or WinXP). Still waiting to hear from someone that uses WinXP to give their opinion on it. I have people telling me Win2k is great but it doesn't look like any of you have tried WinXP.

I'm only considering the 1GHz Athlon 'C' because at this time the higher end Athlon 'C's cost almost the same as the equivalent Mhz XP versions. If I still have money within my $1000 budget after all of the other components then I will get it. Otherwise I will stick with a cheaper Athlon 'B' for now (can always upgrade later when prices come down).

I think you got the wrong idea when I said I plan to get a cheap 16x CD-Writer. Cheap as in it costs much less not that it is any less quality. In fact the CD-Writer I am planning to get (so far) is nearly identical to the one you suggested. It's the LITE-ON LTR-16102B. The only difference is that its normal cd write speed is at 16x instead of the 24x the LTR-24102B writes at. Everything else is exactly the same (same 10x cd-rw speed, same 40x cd read speed, same smart burn technology, same nero software bundle, etc...). There is an unjustifiable premuim for the highest technology. To people with the $ it doesn't matter but unfortuantely with me that isn't the case. So a slightly slower but much cheaper CD-Writer will be fine for my needs.

I will check out the hsf you recommended. I think I've heard good things about Swiftech before but I'll have to read around to refresh my memory.

Whoa! They just let you use a 19" monitor from work (hehe, I hope that your really didn't steal it thinking no one would notice)? Most likely I will get a 19" or 21" monitor. This a component I believe is worth a bit of a premium. I am being a bit conservative on some of the other components in order to be able to fit a big high quality monitor into my budget. Like you said, It makes all the difference!

~richieaok

 

[btvillarin]

In reply to the CD-Writer, that's fine what you said. I just didn't know what you meant by cheaper. I should've known money wise. 16x is fine. Just so you know, the burn technology is different. But, it doesn't matter.

Here's some reviews to check out for that Swiftech cooler:
<A HREF="http://www.swiftnets.com/mcx370.htm" target="_new">Official Swiftech MCX370-0A Spec Sheet</A>
<A HREF="http://www.overclockersonline.com/?page=articles&num=96" target="_new">Overclockersonline Review</A>
<A HREF="http://www.cluboverclocker.com/reviews/heatsinks/swiftech/mcx370-0a/" target="_new">ClubOverclocker</A>
<A HREF="http://www.coolerguys.com/cpucool/extreme.shtml" target="_new">Buy that bad boy here</A>



<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=13406" target="_new">My System Rig</A>

 

[bront]

A note on the Lite-on burner, I found only a $7 difference between the 2 in price, that's not that much.

Often, in CPU speed, there is a price point in performance. The 2 that I see are at the 1 GHz Athlon 266 FSB at $66 (pricewatch simple search) (I think that's the C, the 200 FSB was $69), and the Athlon XP 1600+ at $114. Both of these don't have much of a price drop to go lower, and there is a big price gap to go up. Personaly, I'd go with the XP 1600+ unless you realy need to cut down the price. A better CPU tends to give you a longer Computer life, and speeds up all apps, not just games.

BTW, P4 price points seem to be 1.4 GHz ($105), and 1.8 GHz ($209).

My 2 cents.

60 FPS, 70 FPS, 80 FPS Crash!
Daylight comes and I have to go to work :frown:

 

[bront]

The Standard SX-1040 comes with an antec 400W PSU.

60 FPS, 70 FPS, 80 FPS Crash!
Daylight comes and I have to go to work :frown:

 

[richieaok]

Yeah, I can see how you could have gotten confused with how I phrased it (cheap 16X one). Actually the burn technology is the same. You must be thinking of the older LITE-ON LTR-16101B which uses BURN-Proof technology but as I said before I plan to get the newer 16102B. This drive uses the new SMART-Burn technology just like the LTR-24102B you suggested (notice that drives with the newer technology have a 2 before the B instead of 1). I know this from the helpful (thanks) StorageReview link you posted above. Just thought I should clear things up (no big deal).

Thank you for all those review links on the Swiftech MCX370-0A. Maybe I'll pick one up. That cooler looks pretty sweet!

~richieaok

 

[richieaok]

Really bront? Please tell me where you found those prices. I just finished checking pricewatch and the lowest difference I found was $20 (including shipping which is sometimes inflated on pricewatch so that the base price for an item can be lower, tricky!). Quite a bit cheaper then the almost $40 more I said before although I was just using that as a base price (from the store link on the Lite-On LTR-24102B 24x10x40 that btvillarin provided me).

Exactly, certain processors provide the best price/performance ratio in their class. As I said before though, I wont be considering more then the 1GHz Athlon 'C' t-bird (266 FSB) because it will exceed my budget since I want a quality 21" monitor and good periphirals. Assuming I upgrade to an XP processor after prices drop I wont be losing any lifespan for my computer. Thanks for your 2 cents though. I think that I am convinced now to go with an Athlon 'C' 1GHz (266 FSB) and not a Athlon 'B' which I was still considering previously.

~richieaok

 

[LoveGuRu]

well the nforce looks like an intresting part, why THG didnt bench it yet?-the 440 one.

<font color=green>
*******
*K.I.S.S*
*(k)eep (I)t (S)imple (S)tupid*
*******
</font color=green>

 

[richieaok]

Isn't the nForce suppose to come out next week already? A bench and final review by THG would be nice before its release. I've read a review on it from another site (forgot which one) which said that its performance was about the same as the new KT266A motherboards when you add on a video card. The integrated video on the 440 was a bit less then the geoforce 2MX and the 220 peformed at about half of that (because it has half as much memory bandwith). So if you plan to keep with the integrated video get the 440. I'll be happy to give you a link to the review when I remember what site it was from (I will try to find it).

~richieaok