P4 more scalable

If you see the Lattest Atlon XP model 1900 (1.6GHz). You can see that Pentium4 is more scalable.
See this...
on each benchmark, take the Pentium4 1500 & Pentium4 1900 score... and substract it.
then go to Atlon XP 1500 & XP 1900 score... substract it.

It can be seen that Pentium4 closing the gap with each release.
In Quake III, you can see that most XP beat P4 counterpart.
But on the last XP (1900), P4 win.

It can be seen that P4 tactic very good in the long run.
Well done intel.
If only DDR i845 & nortwood come out, I will buy P4 ASAP.

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22 answers Last reply
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  1. It is, but it isn't.......P4 is made to be very scalable, but at the cost of ip speed. That is why you are seeing the Athlon beating the P4 in most of the benchmarket, even with the P4's 400 mhz lead. Northwood isn't going to fix this problem. Its a design flaw, as the P4 scales higher and higher it ip speed actually lows compared to the Athlon and the PIII......

    You're going to late a long time for Northwood and DDR. At least DDR from Intel. You'll see sdram and Rambus for Northwood, and anyone putting the P4 with sdram should be slapped.....:)

    yes while the latencies are much lower with sdram, you cripple and starve the P4 for bandwidth, Rambus doesn't starve the P4 as much but then you have to deal with latencies issues.

    P4 still isn't a good buy in my oppinion, limited upgrade path, which ends with when Northwood comes out.

    Don't be fooled, while the P4 scales beautifully up the mzh scale, its ip does not. It comes down to both scaling well to have the fastest machine around.
  2. Youre juin, arent you.


    PS: try your equasion with the true mhz of the chips and not the pr rating, see now how the xp gains much more per clock than the p4.

    The palomino/thoroughbred done HAVE to scale very well, the hammer series is AMD's answer to the p4, the current athlon series only has to keep going for another year or so. With the .13 micron shrink in q202 this is quite easily achieved, northwood or not.

    ~Matisaro~
    "The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
    ~Tbird1.3@1.5~
  3. Quote:
    In Quake III, you can see that most XP beat P4 counterpart.
    But on the last XP (1900), P4 win.

    <A HREF="http://hhtp://www.anandtech.com" target="_new"><b><font color=blue>Anandtech</A></b></font color=blue> said otherwise!
    <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1554" target="_new"><b><font color=red>AMD's Athlon XP 1900+ (1.6GHz): Still #1</A></b></font color=red>

    >><A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1554&p=6" target="_new">Here's another benchmark in which the introduction of the 1900+ tilted the scales ever-so-slightly in AMD's favor. Quake III Arena has historically been a tremendous showcase of the performance of Intel's Pentium 4, specifically because of its highly advanced hardware data prefetch logic. With the addition of similar capabilities to the Athlon XP core, AMD was able to improve their performance across the board here by around 5%. Couple that with higher clock speeds and we now have a CPU that is just as competitive under Quake III as it is under other environments.</A><<


    :smile: Good or Bad have no meaning at all, depends on what your point of view is.
  4. The reason the p4 wins the regular quake time demo is because it is basically a memory bandwith test, but when you start having to use the cpu(nv15) the xp punks the p4. In reality playing a game of q3 is more like the nv15 demo than the timedemo.

    ~Matisaro~
    "The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
    ~Tbird1.3@1.5~
  5. And let's not forget nForce which brings around another 5-10% performance increase over the current KT266A based boards being used for comparison tests.

    That should get XP1700+ to a point where it outperforms P4 in benchmarks that only XP1900+ won using KT266A.

    Mark-

    When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!
  6. yay!
    lets all play quake3 at 640x480!
    lol


    Is that a Northwoody in your pocket or are you just eXPited to see me?
  7. Heh, I love that. Sure, it shows us the differences between the CPU's, but here in the real world, nobody with those CPU's is going to run Quake 3 at 640x480. You have to wonder, what’s the point of doing real world tests like Quake 3, if you’re not going to use real world resolutions?

    "Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."
  8. Limited upgrade path, that ends when the Northwood comes out? What color is the sky in your world? Socket 478 should last for at least 3 years, which provides a SIGNIFICANT upgrade path. In fact Socket 478 will probably outlast the current Athlon socket!

    Back to you Tom...
  9. AMD is really showing weakness in it's PR rating, giving the CPU a 100 higher numerical name for every 66MHz increase. It still beets the P4 in most benchmarks, but that won't last long if they keep this up. Since AMD wants people to use this PR rating instead of the MHz, true clock for clock goes out the window, PR rating to clock is what they want.

    Back to you Tom...
  10. Umm, well if that's the case then the Athlon XP is over 1.5 faster per cycle than the T-Bird. That's crazy. 100/66

    AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
  11. Umm, well if that's the case then the Athlon XP is over 1.5 faster per cycle than the T-Bird. That's crazy. 100/66

    AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

    AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
  12. If they keep it up, by the time they get to XP2500+ at 2GHz, they will look like garbage compared to the 2500 P4 Northwood. Maybe they will skip a few PR's to make it up?

    Back to you Tom...
  13. Intel went with the P4 to be able to crank up the CPU speed. A high CPU speed impresses common, uneducated buyers, and is the quick and easy way to a faster CPU. They did add some new instructions, which is nice, but they could have tweeked so much more if they weren't in such a hurry to max out the Core Speed.

    The Bandwith issue is one true advantage of the P4, but by the time today's applications use it (for 95% of users that is), AMD will likely have caught up on that issue as well. I think them sticking with that was more of an issue of them not wanting to admit problems with the Rambus descision.

    Quote:
    anyone putting the P4 with sdram should be slapped.

    Does that mean I should stop working on my P4 EDO Dram bios solution? :wink:

    60 FPS, 70 FPS, 80 FPS Crash!
    Daylight comes and I have to go to work :frown:
  14. What crack are you smoking? Northwood uses a different pin layout than the P4 we see today. The package that is with today's P4 has always been limited to this fact and is one of the biggest reasons I cannot and will not recommend the P4.

    Please go back and read, Northwood will not, does not, can not fit into today's P4 motherboards........
  15. Yep I know this, P4 really could of been a beautiful piece of engineering. Intel has been running their best engineers out for years. Its now showing in the P4; instead of scaling both ip speeds and mhz speeds, Intel chose to make a cpu that scales mhz well and not ip.

    The trade off is not well and we are seeing that. Intel has to push higher and higher mhz speeds to do the same thing as the Athlon or even their own PIII.

    "Does that mean I should stop working on my P4 EDO Dram bios solution? "

    Aye captain, as you pointed out, bandwidth is P4 strength, but putting it with sdram, you cut the legs out from under this 3 legged racer......:)
  16. Its the best thing I think they can do right now. AMD has a processor that beats the P4 even when the P4 has a 400 mhz lead. This is because AMD did not sacrifice ip speed just for mhz as Intel did.

    But I do agree its a little weak, but this is what they need to do keep Intel on its toes....
  17. Nahh Crash.

    By the time XP is at a true 2ghz, AMD will be using the Thoroughbred .13 chips. That should add enough performance boos to still look good...especially on a mhz/mhz basis against Northwood.

    Of course, since Athlon already has a large cache there's not a lot of improvements they can make to further improve performance on the chip other than the small speed increase the full die shrink may or may not provide. Of course, this is all hypothetical until chips at those speeds are actually available sometime next year.

    Mark-

    When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!
  18. Wow, you must be living in a cave! They ALREADY released the "New" socket MONTHS ago, it's called Socket 478. And they're selling the OLD P4 in both Socket 423 and Socket 478 versions. In fact hardly anybody is buying the 423 version because they know about the change. And Socket 423 motherboards are out of production, they've been replaced by socket 478 on the production line. So the "new socket" that's already moths old is the "Current" one.

    Please go back and read, Northwood fits ALL CURRENT motherboards, because CURRENT motherboards are using Socket 478. Sorry about your problem, I know what it's like to wake up from a coma and find out everything has changed.

    Back to you Tom...
  19. Crash please turn your attention to the following article on the Inquirer

    http://213.219.40.69/05090110.htm

    Interesting read.

    Mark-

    When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!
  20. As Crash mentioned, Melt, Northwood will use Socket478, which they already have. Problem is they can't produce enough of them because of socket production problems apparently. Add to this that Intel is trying to get board manufacturers to make more Socket423 boards and it adds up to a confusing situation at present. I don't see it straightening out in the next 2-3 months between now and Northwood's release.

    Mark-

    When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!
  21. Thanks for making my point! The article you mentioned was written 2 months ago, and pointed to a looming shortage of the now-obsolete 423-pin boards. The Socket 478 boards are readily available in ample supply from many sources, my current favorite being the Abit TH7-II RAID.

    Back to you Tom...
  22. Sorry my mistake; I haven't had as much time to keep up on the P4 as I would like, post grad keeps people busy.
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