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Why is everyone so excited of some Nforce mobos?

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November 5, 2001 7:35:35 PM

Look I see they have awesome numbers in there, but damn why is everyone so excited if it comes with GF2 MX cards? I mean they relatively suck now! I thought they would like pump a GF3 in there, and really be a mobo of death! And I hope they release benchmarks soon...

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November 5, 2001 8:19:09 PM

im not.

i believe the initial histeria came drom the days of the amd760, ali magik and via kt266 chipsets... ok, but not an amazing jump in performance from sdram to ddr.
so the idea of dual channel ddr sounded very good (at least to me)
now with the sis735, the much improved kt266a and ddr-333 based mobo's soon the nforce doesnt look that amazing anymore, and while onboard MX2 graphics is a quantum step up from previous integrated systems, it still kinda sucks compared to the 'average' geforce2gts or pro.
plus, nforce is kinda expensive.

what i really want to see is a DUAL cpu nforce... this way the memory bandwidth can be properly maxxed out with 2 cpus :) 
as it stands the bandwidth is underutilised atm.

note: this is all "IMHO" stuff :) 

Is that a Northwoody in your pocket or are you just eXPited to see me?
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November 5, 2001 9:20:57 PM

You've mised the point complletely. Nobody in here (well, hardly anybody) cares about the onboard graphics, it's the high performance and killer sound they're after.

Back to you Tom...
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November 5, 2001 9:25:17 PM

The next Crush chipset (nForce) due out h1/02 will incorporate a GeForce3 core into the Northbridge.

Meanwhile, nVidia is continuing to tweak performance of the current nForce. Initial performance with the first stable drivers was on par with kt266A. The version with the latest drivers benched in the last week seems to increase performance by 5-10%.

I wonder how much nVidia can tweak their drivers to further improve performance....1%? 5%? 10% more? In any case, some people will find the increased performance a compelling reason to purchase nForce. Even if they have to bypass the onboard video and add an external card.

Mark-

When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!
November 5, 2001 10:09:20 PM

It's a great chipset for me, since I'm in the "want the best, but can't afford it" category. NForce gives me a high performing motherboard, great sound, network card, and reasonable graphics all for the price of a high performing motherboard.
If you already have good sound and network cards, and a better graphics card, then I suppose the NForce isn't for you, but for me is upgrades half of my systems components in one hit.

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."
November 5, 2001 10:14:00 PM

Quote:
The next Crush chipset (nForce) due out h1/02 will incorporate a GeForce3 core into the Northbridge.


Where did you get this information?
How do they intend to supply the GeForce 3 with the bandwidth that it requires?

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."
November 5, 2001 11:17:33 PM

i was just thinking... now that they have dual channel ram... how hard would it be to have triple channel or quad channel??? :)  :)  :) 

Is that a Northwoody in your pocket or are you just eXPited to see me?
November 5, 2001 11:21:20 PM

I dont know anymore about the Nforce but what really excites me is the SiS DDR400 p4 chipset in the making. Oh Nelly !!!

That means a SiS DDR400 AMD chipset would be on the way too.

Nice Nvidia and ATi users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
November 5, 2001 11:45:08 PM

Probably not too hard, except for the problems they have with putting 4 DDR RAM slots on a motherboard. It would be annoying if you have to have 3 or 4 sticks of RAM.
The GeForce 3 has 128 bit 460Mhz DDR RAM right? So you would need three channel 64 bit 400Mhz DDR RAM to provide enough bandwidth for a GeForce 3 and an Athlon CPU.

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."
Anonymous
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November 6, 2001 12:01:34 AM

Exactly
hForce like anyother integrated chipsent only for budget Pc's, so i you want a high buy a via and add optional componets.
November 6, 2001 1:08:11 AM

Good point. It would cease to be a budget MB if you need that much High Performance Ram anyway, and by the time it would, there would be better Vid cards.

Personaly, I hope the nForce board does well, because the dual memory architecture. It could be a significant advance in DDR SDRam. And with increasing mem speeds, in Rambus may have to watch out, or at least learn how to reduce the latency.

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November 6, 2001 1:31:01 AM

Don't forget that the nForce also has AGP expansion capability. It's more like a i815e rather than a i810.

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November 6, 2001 1:52:07 AM

I am also way more impresse by sis.Who is consider like very stable chipset.

Wisdom dont come with time
Meilleur chance la prochaine fois
November 6, 2001 3:17:02 AM

There's no point increasing memory bandwidth further unless the cpu is optimised to use it. The Athlon/XP isn't. Maybe thoroughbred will be (I doubt it - maybe 166/333DDR?) but until such time there is no point having higer memory bandwidth for AMD cpus - unless you are making a dualie board, and I doubt nVidia are going anywhere near that since they are doing the integrated thing...

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November 6, 2001 5:21:07 AM

well there are DDR-333 boards comming... and that just uses lower multipliers while boosting the fsb... which is good.
nforce however has the same 266 fsb. now it would be relly excellent if it had a 533fsb or something :) 

Is that a Northwoody in your pocket or are you just eXPited to see me?
November 6, 2001 11:19:49 AM

I think AMD may actually be working on higher mem bandwidth for Thoroughbred. As you mentioned, Athlon is maxxed out with the PC2100 RAM for the most part. Nearly all the MB manufacturers, INCLUDING nVidia have much higher memory bandwidth capable boards on the roadmap for h1/02. Perhaps they know something we don't!

Mark-

When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!
November 6, 2001 11:25:49 AM

Errm, hard.

Dual channel Rambus requires 32 traces for the data bus, 'cos the current RDRAM is 16 bit. For Dual Channel DDR, I think there are 128 traces for the data bus (2x64). Now consider a 4 channel board. That requires 256 traces. Not least the capcitence problems you get and the difficulty of routing all those little wires.

Woke up in Borneo one day, stuck in the pouch of a big marsupial, but the boat was made of marsipan!
November 6, 2001 10:07:52 PM

:)  right.

i still believe that nforce is a great platform for a dualie system.

oh, and there are no marsupials in borneo ;) 

Is that a Northwoody in your pocket or are you just eXPited to see me?
November 7, 2001 3:25:40 AM

It seems the best graphics capabilities you could get out of nforce would be a geforce 2 pretty much. 266 MHz memory bandwidth would be pretty nice, they would just have to make sure it had 4 rendering pipelines instead of 2 like the MX.
Unless they made a special slot for high speed DDR video memory I don't think they could put a geforce 3 on board unless it was highly cripped by video memory bandwidth.
Oh yea and I do think that nForce would make for the perfect MP motherboard because of dual channel DDR memory. Somehow though I think it'll be awhile before anyone besides AMD releases an MP chipset. Look how long it took for the 762MP chipset, and now how long its taking for the second (supposedly better/cheaper) revision of that chipset.
November 7, 2001 6:21:58 AM

It would be more like a geforce 3 MX. It will most likely be slower compared to the current g3 lines but it will most likely have all of it's features.

<font color=blue>Another waste of bandwidth on the web. :tongue: </font color=blue>
November 7, 2001 7:37:34 AM

I know, but its better than an exploding Guava fruit.

I wasn't saying the Nforce was a bad platfrom, mearly commenting on the difficulties of having multiple channels of memory.

Woke up in Borneo one day, stuck in the pouch of a big marsupial, but the boat was made of marsipan!
November 7, 2001 8:21:16 PM

also what would be nice is a nforce chipset for the pentium4.

beat rdram at its own game with 4.2mb/sec bandwidth.

OEMs selling "High End"PCs with integrated video will be forced into Q3tournaments using a TNT2M64!
November 7, 2001 8:48:50 PM

Would be nice, but Intel refuse to license the P4 bus to nVidia for reasons best known to themselves.

Woke up in Borneo one day, stuck in the pouch of a big marsupial, but the boat was made of marsipan!
November 8, 2001 2:58:31 AM

They dont want crappy produce in there way.

Wisdom dont come with time
Meilleur chance la prochaine fois
November 8, 2001 3:20:17 AM

That reminds me of a company I used to work for, where I built Dialogic-based systems. One of their customers is/was Call Time International; they have an Australian branch called Call Time Australia (how appropriate).

Well, one of the orders we shipped to them was a two-tier 7u rackmount system. For some reason, they ended up shipping it back for a warranty replacement, and instead of using the original properly-padded 7u shipping box, they stuck the system in a 5u box (<b>3.5" shorter</b> than the proper container) with <b>no padding at all.</b> This system was roughly the shape of a cube when new; it came back to us in the shape of a parallelogram.

We made all sorts of jokes about that system, mostly having to do with Steve Erwin taking the thing onto the set with him, a kangaroo doing unspeakable things to it, etc. etc. After the thing sat in our RMA area for a while, we put a large label on the top saying, "Australian for server." :wink:

Kelledin
<A HREF="http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/" target="_new">LFS</A>: "You don't eat or sleep or mow the lawn; you just hack your distro all day long."

P.S. A little tasteless humor for you...<A HREF="http://www.liquid2k.com/rich1108/img/s_gal_humpingKanga..." target="_new">Welcome to Australia.</A>

Sorry, I couldn't resist.
November 8, 2001 3:25:21 AM

Quote:
They dont want crappy produce in there way.

That doesn't really explain why they've let SiS, VIA, and ALi produce crappy products for so long. It also doesn't help that they've produced some pretty crappy chipsets themselves.

Kelledin
<A HREF="http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/" target="_new">LFS</A>: "You don't eat or sleep or mow the lawn; you just hack your distro all day long."
November 8, 2001 4:50:47 AM

From what I have heard the nforce is blazing and stable, it is my next mobo purchase. Nvidia does good chip design and I have no idea why intel wouldnt like to work with them, other than the fact they sided with AMD on the nforce origionally perhaps.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
November 8, 2001 6:37:23 AM

By the way, has everyone seen MSI's K7N420 Pro motherboard on <A HREF="http://www.pricewatch.com" target="_new">Pricewatch</A>? It's $199, I bit steep IMO. Hopefully it'll drop in price a bit.

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."
November 8, 2001 9:46:24 AM

199 for a mobo a network card, a KILLER sound card, and a gf2 mx tossed in to sweeten, is a bit high?

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
November 8, 2001 11:40:21 AM

$199 is the high price. There's also a price listed at $185.

Which price would YOU choose to pay?

Mark-



When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!
November 8, 2001 5:13:57 PM

I wasn't aware that nVidia applied for a p4 license.


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November 8, 2001 7:09:10 PM

why is that photo sitting in a weird photoshop site?

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November 8, 2001 7:14:17 PM

A GF2 MX Mat, I couldn't possibly go for that if I'm a gamer. Ya sure we can disable it, but this means we pay more for something we won't use! Why no GF3, or simply have a Geforce booster so any GF card you put in, will be boosted by its Nforce core!
November 8, 2001 9:18:04 PM

Higher than I was hopeing it would be.

Still, I see there is now a couple for $185, as zengeos mentioned, which is a good start.

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."
November 8, 2001 9:40:17 PM

Eden probably because the Gf3 has around 60 million transistors and to fit the other components on the northbridge ALONG with the gf3 at this point is likely not feasible. However, this IS in the works for the next generation of nForce, as I think I've mentioned before. Crush 17/18 I think. I can't recall the actual names as I read about this some 3 months ago. Expect it sometime in 1h02.

Mark-

When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!
November 8, 2001 9:56:10 PM

If it was a lower clocked GeForce 3, and was built with the .13-micron process it would probably be possible (although expensive), but RAM is still a major bottleneck.

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."
November 9, 2001 7:27:41 AM

Thats why I said and.

You have a good mobo for 140 today, which has a sound card which is arguably better than any consumer soundcard today onboard, the audiology costs like what 100 bucks. And built in lan, AND a free gf2 mx to boot? 185 is far from high imo.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
November 9, 2001 2:23:22 PM

Mat,

while the technical specs of the MCP on nForce look great on paper, there are still some issues they need to overcome for it to be a truly good pirce of silicon. There have been mixed reviews, to say the least, about the actual audio quality, with nForce reportedly exhibiting more distortion than even the SB Live! Value card.

So, while it's likely better than any other onboard sound chip, it appears that it needs some work yet.

OTOH, nVidia's drivers are improving all the time, and hopefully this is just a driver issue, with the drivers needing some tweaks....If that's the case, then maybe in a couple more months we'll see much improved sound quality AND video performance...and overall system speed as well!

mark-

When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!
!