TRYING TO DEBUNK THG!!!

[AmdMELTDOWN]

two new videos <A HREF="http://www.vanshardware.com" target="_new">here </A>trying to debunk the THG video showing off
AMD's half-Assed thermal implementation.

the only things these videos fail to do is to debunk anything and
they always lead to more questions.

the funniest thing I notice is that none of the ppl who shot these
videos use the same hardware that THG used.

this is really funny because even AMD used a souped-up
motherboard trying to discredit THG.

so if you are out to debunk THG at least use the same
mainboard and setup.

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by AmdMeltdown on 11/08/01 01:15 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[rcf84]

Well now its www.vanshardware.com not www.vanshardware/

Nice Nvidia and ATi users get a Cookie.... Yummy

 

[Matisaro]

LoL, tom used a motherboard which didnt feature the specified on board thermal logic, no one needs to debunk stupidity.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

 

[lhgpoobaa]

shhhh. dont say that!
lets use the same inferior ill equiped motherboard again and again!

OEMs selling "High End"PCs with integrated video will be forced into Q3tournaments using a TNT2M64!

 

[Crashman]

Your employing revisionist history! The motherboard Tom used WAS using what AMD specified AT THAT TIME! It was BECAUSE of failures like this that AMD changed their hardware recommendations!

Back to you Tom...

 

[Matisaro]

Actually crash, that point is still debated. It is unclear if the fujitsu board was using AMD's complete specification, they claim they were. But many sites have raised many doubts on this. The fact remains however, that the board does NOT support the thermal diode properly, and the new(or origional, I will agree with you it is a point of contention) thermal monitoring specification works properly EVEN when the heatsink is removed. As the numerous leaked videos clearly show.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

 

[Ncogneto]

The video's in question from AMD preceeded the THG video's. It was a promotional tool that was being used to convince motherboard and OEM's to use the logic chip. Amd did not release it to debunk THG as many are trying to say. Furthermore Tom's hardware was right in the fact that what was shown on thier ( THG ) video would happen with ANY current motherboard.

But then he made several big mistakes in his review.

We rushed to the telephone to confer with Siemens. The engineers assured us that what we had seen was for real. The thermal diode of Palomino is unable to react quickly enough. Only 1 degree/s is what the thermal diode is able to handle. That might be good enough for failing fans. A fallen off heat sink however will ensure a dead Athlon processor and possibly a damaged motherboard as well. What a serious disappointment!

Nothing but pure BS! The thermal diode on the xp is able to react more than quick enough, otherwise the external logic chip would not work either. DUH! More complete BS from THG!

He then goes on in a later article to pat himself on the back for being responsible for AMD making this new exteranl logic chip...yeah right Tom gimme a break! It was already developed, and the video in circulation was to show how IT worked, not how current motherboards would work.

Fact of the matter is The Intel chips still have a better thermal solution. Another fact is if you can't install a heatsink, you shouldn't be building your own computer.

Another Cookie? Who is going to pay my dentist bill?

 

[Matisaro]

Thats a great take ncognito, if the video was pre thg test that proves they did not respecify the thermal logic and that fujitsu was at fault, not amd.


I agree that the p4's thermal solution is better, and that if you cant install a heatsink you should not be building a computer.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

 

[Crashman]

I still think it was AMD's fault, that Fujitsu/Siemens followed the ORIGINAL spec as published by AMD, and that incidences like Tom's video FORCED AMD to come up with a revised solution. So we should be thanking Tom instead of criticizing him.

Back to you Tom...

 

[Ncogneto]

Thats a great take ncognito, if the video was pre thg test that proves they did not respecify the thermal logic and that fujitsu was at fault, not amd.

I am not making this statement It is still possible that at time of production Siemens was using the current guidelines, then again maybe not. My argument is that AMD never intended those video's to be used to debunk the THG video's they were leaked out. Tom Claiming that his video caused AMD to all of a sudden design this chip and have it functional in less than a week is ridiculous. in fact on some of the video's you can actually see the onboard logic chip.


Another Cookie? Who is going to pay my dentist bill?

 

[Matisaro]

I disagree crash. I think that the other way around is more plausable. AFter all, do you really think AMD would not test the thermal logic before releasing the spec, in much the same manner as tom did?

If they did and they fried the chip, it would have been painless to redesign, no, I believe they had a specification and fujitsu did not follow it.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

 

[Crashman]

I didn't say that AMD catually ever released the video to the public. I think AMD at first offered motherboard manufacturers the cheapest solution, and when that failed, offered them a better solution. I don't think the modifications AMD performed to that test system were even in their published specifications, as AMD probably thought they would be too expensive to implement (aka, requiring a board redesign).

Back to you Tom...

 

[Matisaro]

Crash, we need to determins what modifcations they made to the mobo in the testing and if the fujitsu siemens board followed their specifications at the time.

All I can say for sure is, their white papers have NOT changed from before the thg movie that I can see. I personally think fujitsu is at fault, not amd, again, AMD did not have to pay for the modifications to other companies boards, they had everything to lose and nothing to gain by half assing the thermal protection logic.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

 

[Ncogneto]

I think AMD at first offered motherboard manufacturers the cheapest solution, and when that failed, offered them a better solution.

I tend to agree, but that is pure speculation.

I don't think the modifications AMD performed to that test system were even in their published specifications, as AMD probably thought they would be too expensive to implement (aka, requiring a board redesign).

I don't think it is expensive at all to implement, after all they are able to add it to existing motherboards. The fact remains it was already developed and it was probably offerd as an option that motherboard makers choose not to use. but again this too is speculation.

What is not speculation is were MR. Meltdown is trying to accuse AMD of trying to debunk THG, that is just more of his FUD.

Even worse is all the AMD fanatics trying to tell everyone that current motherbaords would indeed protect the CPU's in case of a heatsink fall-off. Isn't denial a wonderfull thing LMAO!

Just like everything else, somewhere in the middle lies the truth. but what really erks me is the self righteous attitude expressed by THG.


Another Cookie? Who is going to pay my dentist bill?

 

[Crashman]

Companies (including Intel, remember MTH?) have a habbit of passing along the CHEAPEST solution first, and then revising things if it doesn't work out.

Back to you Tom...

 

[juin]

I you want me advise bolth are in the faulth

1 Siem... Are suppost to test mobo before.
2 AMD are suppost the test/help/look at there protocol if there are as they want.When GM buy tire for there car they test them or it look like ford explorer.( in fact it was drive train prob).NISSAN new SENTRA SE-R spec V a fail some test and it in the market anyway.

Wisdom dont come with time
Meilleur chance la prochaine fois

 

[Crashman]

I believe that Tom was seriously trying to prove the new motherboard would PROTECT the new chip. It didn't. Did you expect him to hide the unexpected results? Integrety would force an honest man to publish them anyway, with all the relavent information he could find, and face the unreasonable masses. I expected no less from Tom. A lesser man would have hid this from us.

Back to you Tom...

 

[Ncogneto]

I believe that Tom was seriously trying to prove the new motherboard would PROTECT the new chip. It didn't

I have no issue with this, although I doubt his intent...but that is irelevant he was right!

Integrety would force an honest man to publish them anyway, with all the relavent information he could find, and face the unreasonable masses. I expected no less from Tom. A lesser man would have hid this from us.

I definatly agree the results should have been published, but remember, that is not what I took issue with. the statement he made about the thermal diode in the xp was incorrect and the external logic chip proves this. It is capable of much faster detection then he gives credit for. So, then the integrity you speak off should force him to correct this error no? And that whole part about him patting himself on the back like he was responsible for a new piece of hardware being developed ( that already was in existance) if laughable. These are the things I take issue with.

Another Cookie? Who is going to pay my dentist bill?

 

[Crashman]

He should correct the misinformation he repeated from his source. It wasn't his opinion but that of his source that this was true.

Back to you Tom...

 

[Guest]

I agree on both points. However, he should have checked first, before publising what a third party has to say as being the truth. Isnt that the foundation of any form of journalism ? Check your sources, and doublecheck them ? How hard would it have been to contact AMD or ASus or whatever other company to shed a light on this ? Surely Tom is smart enough to understant Fujitsu would prefer blaming the cpu than their board ?

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[Matisaro]

Yes, if the board followed spec or not, the whole damn article was shoddy journalism, and Tom was rightly bashed in damn near every tech forum on the planet for it.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

 

[AmdMELTDOWN]

>Well now its www.vanshardware.com not www.vanshardware/

thanks dude, I changed it, been in a rush lately!

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"

 

[AmdMELTDOWN]

>LoL, tom used a motherboard which didnt feature the specified on board thermal logic, no one needs to debunk stupidity.

<A HREF="http://www.fujitsu-siemens.com/rl/peripherals/mainboards/d1289.html" target="_new">yes it did</A>, so I guess there's no need to debunk you?.

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"

 

[LoveGuRu]

how about another turn on this?
a purely money one, if AMD would use the thermal diode on chip, it would make it more expansive(plus the R&D for it), but thry put that responsability on the mobo maker thus making the mobo makers spend more on it.

<font color=green>
*******
*K.I.S.S*
*(k)eep (I)t (S)imple (S)tupid*
*******
</font color=green>

 

[Negaverse23]

Tom Claiming that his video caused AMD to all of a sudden design this chip and have it functional in less than a week is ridiculous.

With the current specifications that AMD uses now I could have redesigned from the older specification in under a hour. Applying the new specification to the mainboard to an external PCB would have only taken 4 soldered lead wires to the mainboard. (1 for the anode, 1 for the cathode, 1 for ground, and 1 for hot power lead.) The external PCB with the thermal controler probably only took them less than a day to impliment. Only need to change the thermal activation safty shutoff paths to interact with a simple switch instead of another hardware controler.

<font color=blue>Another waste of bandwidth on the web. :tongue: </font color=blue>