1.8GH Pentium 4 or Athlon XP 1800+ ??

[Conqueror]

This is my first post on this board.

I am looking to buy a new PC, and I have this strong attraction towards Pentium 4. What do you think of the following spec. (taken from Dell's website - <A HREF="http://commerce.euro.dell.com/dellstore/config/frameset.asp?s=uktra&l=en&m=gbp&c=644&n=2649&cu=uktra&v=n&cc=&ogn=&kcd=&ad=&mc=&rs=&cuid=&cg=&pch=1&pn=-1&demo=&gc=&sbc=ukdhsdimen&co=&b=27349" target="_new">CICK HERE</A>):

1.8GHz Intel Pentium 4 Processor with 256K cache
384MB RDRAM,
19" Triniton Flat Screen Monitor,
100GB Hard Drive (7200 rpm)
16x DVD Drive & Software Decoding
16x IDE CD-RW Internal
Turtle Beach Santa Cruz Sound Card
Harmon Kardon 695 speakers
64MB nVidia GeFore3 Ti 200 Card
MS Windows XP
(plus other standard things)
3 years warranty
Total Price = £1300 (inc. VAT and delivery)


I would like to know if it's is worth buying this system and whether anyone can come up with a better deal.

I don't have a lot of money but I don't mind paying a bit more as long as I get a FAST, HIGH PERFORMANCE machine, which is FUTURE PROOF so that it won't cost me a bomb to upgrade it in the future when new stuff comes out.

I know the Athlons have been getting high scores with the benchmarks, but they still doesn't appeal to me. I want QUALITY, PERFORMANCE, COMPATIBILITY and FUTURE PROOFNESS. Intel have have been leading the market for many years, and their quality is very high.

I have heard that there could be problems with the AMD processors because they are very exposed and can easily be damaged. Also the processors can easily be over-heated, which causes the system to crash often.

I am very desparate to buy the computer very soon. Do you think it is worth waiting to buy the computer in the new years? If it is worth waiting, how would this benefit me? Other than the price fall, of course.

I want some honest opinions from the well-researched members on this board. I want to buy a system that is

1) MOST COMPATIBLE with CURRENT and FUTURE software and hardware

2) A system that will LIVE LONG and not need reparing often due to it's low quality. I think intel's quality is much higher than Athlon's.

3) I want a system that will not need much upgrading to keep up with time, with new software, hardware etc.

4) I have been waiting since July for better systems to come out and also for the price drop. Do you think that it is worth waiting longer till the new year to buy my computer? How will that benfit me other than the price drop?

 

[AMD_Man]

1) MOST COMPATIBLE with CURRENT and FUTURE software and hardware

Any modern processor complies with your first requirement. Both the Pentium 4 and the Athlon (XP) are 100% compatible with everything out there.

2) A system that will LIVE LONG and not need reparing often due to it's low quality. I think intel's quality is much higher than Athlon's.

Repairing? I have used AMD and Intel systems for years and the only thing I ever had a problem with was an old 40X CD-ROM drive that I sent back and got it replaced with a 56X DRIVE for free. I doubt you'll ever need to send back a modern processor for repair because they are all excellent quality. The Athlon is equal to the Pentium 4, quality-wise.

3) I want a system that will not need much upgrading to keep up with time, with new software, hardware etc.

Any system will do but it must be built by hand. OEMs like DELL can rarely be upgraded.

4) I have been waiting since July for better systems to come out and also for the price drop. Do you think that it is worth waiting longer till the new year to buy my computer? How will that benfit me other than the price drop?

If you want nothing but an Intel system then I'd wait for the Northwood early next year because Pentium 4s are underperformers for the price. The Northwood should change that and give you more bang for the buck.
If you want an AMD system, the best time to buy is now. The Palamino (Athlon XP) was just release and currently the top-of-the-line Athlon XP 1900+ offers up to 15% better performance than a P4 2GHz for a fraction of the price.

More things to note:

* The Athlon platform is 100% stable (whatever that means nowadays) in any task you can throw at it. Admittedly, both Intel and AMD systems have flaws so TRUE 100% is impossible but 99.99% of the time, it's the OS's fault not the processor's. Don't be mislead by trolls!! AMD systems are an option.

The system you said referred to from DELL sounds good but it's probably not. DELL usually uses unupgradeable motherboards with few PCI slots. Also 384MB probably means that all the RAM slots are full so you can't upgrade RAM without throwing out the old RAM.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[lhgpoobaa]

if you like pentium 4, go with it.
just remember that the socket 423 version is limited to probably 2.2Ghz... and is in the process of being phased out.
NOT a good upgrade path.
go for the socket 478 if possible.

as for your comment on the athlon:
sure the core is easy to damage and fragine and prone to overheating...
that is, of course, if you do the job yourself, put on the cooler incorrectly, or use a crappy cooler with bad casecooling.

if you get the computer shop assembled with a decent cooler (hell even the stock one is ok if your not overclocking) you should have no issues.
(FYI: i run an overclocked athlon 1.2 @ 1.35 & 150bus speed for as long as i want at 100% load with zero crashes. and all im using is a fop32-1 an average cooler with 2 decent casefans)
p.s. decent casecooling is advised for ANY system nowerdays.

on yeah... the XP 1800+ benchmarks show that on average its VERY comparable to the pentium4 2.0.... thus considerably better than the 1.8, at a lower cost.

as for when to buy... hmmms. i dont believe any new processors ard due to be released until next year... so getting in before the christmas rush might be an idea. ram is as cheap as its ever been... and with the nvidia vs ati graphics battle graphics cards are also very decent in price.
geforce3 ti-200 is ok... although possibly an original geforce3 will give beter performance.

OEMs selling "High End"PCs with integrated video will be forced into Q3tournaments using a TNT2M64!

 

[zengeos]

LHG My understanding on 423 was that 2ghz was the max speed we would see for P4 on that socket.

Mark-

When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!

 

[lakedude]

AMDude

No problem with most of what you said except: "If you want nothing but an Intel system then I'd wait for the Northwood early next year because Pentium 4s are underperformers for the price." and "If you want an AMD system, the best time to buy is now." Both companies are constantly improving their product and you will always benefit from waiting as long as you can. Old technology gets cheaper and new tech gets better. AMD has got Hammer, SSE2 and .13 on the way. Waiting is almost always better. Thing is you can't wait forever cause we only live so long.

As far as OEMs like Dell go you have a mixed bag. Dells have a great cooling solution, a single point of contact for service, and the price is not so bad anymore.

With homebuilts you are always waiting on something, everybody you bought from will blame everybody else you bought from if you have a problem, and your system is only as good as whoever builds it so if you are not sure what you are doing go OEM.

Sounds like his mind is already made up anyway. You really can't go too wrong with Intel. You might pay a little too much for the performance you get and you may not fit in with the "cool" tweakers if you get a Dell/Intel system.

Personally I don't think too much weight should be given to upgradability because you cannot predict the future and also because everything in your system ages and will need upgrading eventually. Why upgrade a processer only when newer drives are going to be twice as big and twice as fast?

Remember if you ain't Muslim you ain't Shiite.

 

[lhgpoobaa]

your probably right... 2Ghz or maybe 2.2 with max overclock.

yet another dead end socket from intel *sigh*

OEMs selling "High End"PCs with integrated video will be forced into Q3tournaments using a TNT2M64!

 

[AMD_Man]

Well, the Palamino (Athlon XP) is brand new while the Willy (current Pentium 4s) originally came out in 2000. So the Palamino core is newer than the Willamette core that's why I said the best time to buy AMD is now.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[Boondock_Saint]

2GHz is all they are taking the current Socket 423 CPU's up to. More than likely, that dell systemis based around Socket 423 and not the newer Socket 478.

Regarding upgradability, AMD makes a strong show in that realm as well. Their Socket A is planned to be used on the Thoroughbreds from 1.6GHz (1900XP+) and up, to around 2.3GHz, I have even heard.

:tongue: Have you ever tried cooking an egg on your HSF? Tasty. :tongue:

 

[AmdMELTDOWN]

£1300 pounds, a 19in flat screen, 3yr warranty? I say go for it! I really doubt anyone can build an AMD system like this for under $1800 USD.

not sure if this is socket423 system or not but ponder this-most of the AMDzealots here who say the 423 is a "dead end" have gone through 3 to 4 boards on their precious AMD platforms, meanwhile ppl with P4 system are chugging along and getting work done! LOL!

I find this funny 'cause they don't see it as an upgrade they see it as standard procedure like updating drivers and the ones who chime in saying they never had problems with their systems are lying.

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"

 

[AMD_Man]

Conqueror, I'd like to think of myself as a relatively unbiased person. AMDMeltdown, as his name, suggests, is an extremely rude and biased person. He shows no respect for anyone and is extremely arrogant. Um, AMD system like that for under $1800? I can build an AMD system like that for a little more than half that price. Um, no one here has gone through 3 or 4 motherboards. I admit there were some problems with KT133A and the Athlon XP but that's nothing. People don't get new motherboards because they are unstable or because they burn up, they get them because as enthusiasts, we love to have the lastest stuff. It's that simple. Um, upgrading is fun! What's wrong with upgrading? If you have the cash upgrading is a great way to keep your PC up-to-date. I'm never had problems with my OVERCLOCKED AMD processor because AMD processors are rock stable. It's the OS/Apps that crashes not the processor that overheats or malfunctions. Please AMDMeltdown, if you want to support Intel, do it in a less insulting manner and people will believe you and respect you.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[chrismet86]

I noted that the Dell PC has the GeForce 3 Ti200.

If you want top of the line, the Ti500 does have a bit more power to it. Check Tom's comparision of the graphic cards to see if it's worth the extra money to you. Just depends if you have the case to pay or not.

I would suggest the AMD all the way. If you are knowledgeable and understand how to setup and build a computer by yourself, check out www.pricewatch.com to get the cheapest price for hardware on the net. It does take time and knowledge to use the website best, but you can save money over retail.

AMD's Hammer is gonna smash Intel

 

[Boondock_Saint]

Hrrmmm.....

I really doubt anyone can build an AMD system like this for under $1800 USD.

---------------------------------------------------
1,300 British Pound = 1,890.98 US Dollar
1,300 US Dollar (USD) = 893.716 British Pound (GBP)

Median price = 1.45380 / 1.45460 (bid/ask)
Minimum price = 1.45190 / 1.45260
Maximum price = 1.46610 / 1.46680
--------------------------------------------------
The little "£" is for pound, correct? I am rusty on my currency symbols. In that case, AMD Meltdown has proved his stupidity again.

And seeing as how a slower AMD can beat a PIV, you can get a lot more power for a lot less cash:

$209 - Pentium 4 1.8GHz
$195 - Athlon XP 1800 (1.6GHz)

Now, there's less for a CPU that will beat the PIV 1.8GHz hands down in every application. And seeing as how a regular Athlon 1.4GHz will tie a PIV 1.8GHz in most every application, you could save even less by going with it!

$115 - Athlon 1.4GHz 266 FSB
$209 - Pentium 4 1.8GHz

Wow, there's even more saved for the same preformance! Let's keep going......now onto RAM......

$80 - RDRAM 256MB
$34 - RDRAM 128MB

vs.

$21 - PC2100 DDR 256MB
$11 - PC2100 DDR 128MB

Thank you very much.

most of the AMDzealots here who say the 423 is a "dead end" have gone through 3 to 4 boards on their precious AMD platforms

Yet again, you exacerbate every minor flaw into an insurmountable pile of bullshit. Every AMD system I have built has worked perfectly fine, with no hiccups in operation whatsoever.

On a final note....

Please AMDMeltdown, if you want to support Intel, do it in a less insulting manner and people will believe you and respect you.

He's beyond gaining respect.

:tongue: Have you ever tried cooking an egg on your HSF? Tasty. :tongue:

 

[Kelledin]

The system you've picked out is a pretty decent choice. There are a few things I'd narrow down and one or two things I'd change.

For the 100GB 7200RPM hard drive, I would suggest either IBM or Seagate. The only reason I'd consider Seagate is because the newer IBM drives (the only ones capable of reaching 100GB?) are still unproven. IBM has a long-standing reputation for quality, but that reputation has been recently stained by the fiasco with their 75GXP series drives. There is currently a class-action lawsuit going on over the 75GXP product line.

For DVD drive, I would suggest something from Pioneer, preferably slot-loaded. I've heard great things about the latest 16x Pioneer DVD-ROMs, and I currently have a Pioneer 6x that's lasted for two or three years.

For CD/RW, I would suggest either Plextor or Teac. <A HREF="http://www.storagereview.com/" target="_new">Storage Review</A> can give you detailed reviews of just about any drive in existence, CD, DVD, or otherwise.

Harmon Kardon is a brand I'm not familiar with. We tend to prefer <A HREF="http://www.klipsch.com/" target="_new">Klipsch</A> for speakers.

Windows XP is, IMHO, more eye-candy than anything else. It provides better compatibility for old DOS games, but its driver support is rather shaky at the moment, and it requires more in the way of system resources. I would personally suggest Windows 2000.

The above comment about having systems "built by hand" is something we can all agree on. I would suggest that you stay away from retailers that do custom manufacturing; the most upgradeable systems are built from "cloney" off-the-shelf parts that aren't tailored to go in any one setup. That means stay away from Dell, Compaq, HP, Gateway, etc.

I have heard that there could be problems with the AMD processors because they are very exposed and can easily be damaged.

If you're not building this system yourself, I don't see that this would be a problem...this is a manufacturer's responsibility to handle correctly.

Also the processors can easily be over-heated, which causes the system to crash often.

Pentium 4's actually run hotter than Athlons and consume far more power. As a result, they actually need rather more cooling that Athlons. They do have the benefit of thermal protection though.

Our problem with P4s isn't just that they're underperforming; it's that in certain situations, Pentium 4's go beyond underperforming. In some high-end applications like 3D Studio MAX, AutoCAD, and compile jobs, P4's often perform abysmally worse than anything, even Pentium III's. If your heart is set on Intel, I would suggest you either wait for Northwood or get a Pentium III Tualatin CPU. The Northwood release may save the P4 and it may not; early engineering samples suggest that it will not.

Kelledin
<A HREF="http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/" target="_new">LFS</A>: "You don't eat or sleep or mow the lawn; you just hack your distro all day long."

 

[Kelledin]

most of the AMDzealots here who say the 423 is a "dead end" have gone through 3 to 4 boards on their precious AMD platforms

After all that badgering to get dhlucke to remove the "liar" label from <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=faq&notfound=1&code=1" target="_new">the LIST...</A>

I think you'd better contact your imaginary law firm and start discussing a make-believe plea bargain. It'll probably be the first time the plaintiff has ever had to plea-bargain. :lol:

Kelledin
<A HREF="http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/" target="_new">LFS</A>: "You don't eat or sleep or mow the lawn; you just hack your distro all day long."

 

[AmdMELTDOWN]

>1,300 British Pound = 1,890.98 US Dollar

yeah that's what I said $1800 dude! just for your puny brain to digest.

>And seeing as how a slower AMD can beat a PIV, you can get a lot more power for a lot less cash:

boy, you are a brilliant chap aren't you? you forgot to add the 3yr, warrant the 19in flatscreen LOL! another dumb pup.

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"

 

[AEboy128]

I kno i'll have people disagree with me on this one but here goes. I have a presario 7000CTO and nothing is on the mobo, CPQ had FIC take the on-board sound off of the mobo. The mobo that comes with them is a compaq revision of the FIC AZ-11. I'm not sure if it's the AZ-11 or AZ-11E. I have one and in benchmakrs agains my dad's 1100 athlon on i think it's an A7V and mine always comes out in the lead by a little bit. And he has his running at CAS2 pc-133 memory. He has his tweaked as do I. So basaically from what i've seen the presario's aren't crap. But anyways price one up at <A HREF="http://www.compaq.com" target="_new">http://www.compaq.com</A>

My system: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=8946" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=8946</A>

 

[AMD_Man]

The 19inch monitor could cost as little as $300 or less, AMDMeltdown.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[juin]

1 thing to tell us what is the software that you use.

Wisdom dont come with time
Meilleur chance la prochaine fois

 

[bront]

>1,300 British Pound = 1,890.98 US Dollar

yeah that's what I said $1800 dude! rounded off to the nearest US dollar just for your puny brain to digest.

$1,890.98 rounded off to the nearest dollar is $1,891. Rounding to the nearest hundred, it's $1,900. If you're going to insult someone, do the math corectly at least.

boy, you are a brilliant chap aren't you? you forgot to add the 3yr, warrant the 19in flatscreen LOL! another dumb pup.

If you think for a second, changing the memory and the CPU doesn't change the price of the monitor or the warrenty.

60 FPS, 70 FPS, 80 FPS Crash!
Daylight comes and I have to go to work :frown:

 

[AmdMELTDOWN]

oooh, you got me professor, if it weren't for nitpicking you'd be out of a job.

LOL!

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"

 

[bront]

A pretty good system for a decient price given all you get from Dell. Does it come with some form of Office? Usually Dell's do.

<b>Prebuilt vs Compstore built vs Homebuilt </b>
I generaly recomend anyone who realy is generaly clueless about computers to go with a system like a Dell, Gateway, or Compaq. Just know your brand and figure out which is the best system for you. I've heard Dell does not build systems with as much flexability once they are built as they used to (2 Dells here at home, a P 200MMX, and a PIII 550, both are nice, and generaly upgradable). Compaq on the other hand, has become much better with this than they were in the past (All propriatary about 2 years ago). Ultimately, I think only Compaq will let you build an AMD system, so if you want an AMD, your choices are limited at the moment. These computers usually come with long warrantys, decent tech support, and usually components that have been well tested to work togeather.

A computer store built computer is nice IF you know what you want in your computer, and don't have the desire to actualy build it. You pay a bit more that a self built system, but you have someone who can help support it if you have problems.

A home built system can help you save some money, and tweek everything yourself. However, you're all alone with support with the vendors and manufacturers.

60 FPS, 70 FPS, 80 FPS Crash!
Daylight comes and I have to go to work :frown:

 

[lpenix]

Dude i had the same problem when i bought my last computer, i had always been a pentium guy, and did not know what to buy, a 1ghz athlon, or a 1ghz p4, i had always liked the performance of my p3, and thought the athlon would not live up to my pentium, man was i wrong. the athlon rocked, and could not even tell the difference, well mabey in the price, the athlon is cheeper, and rocks. I just ordered, well first i built, then ordered my new system with the athlonxp 1800+, i cant wait.

 

[Matisaro]

1ghz p4?

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

 

[Conqueror]

It's been nice reading all your comments guys! You guys are real freaks!

I can build a system myself if I wanted to, but I just want peace of mind and buy a ready cooked system from the store!


The Hard drive with that system is Ultra ATA-100.
They don't do Ti500 GeForce3.
The speaker's are of high quality. I've heard that Harmon Kardon is the company that supplies speakers to Mercedes cars! The ones that come with the system I quoted are 40 Watt speakers which consist of two sattelite speakers and a subwoofer system. They include "Vmax", a Harman International audio image-processing algorithm that seamlessly supports both two and four channel sound cards. This audio hologram creates a four speaker sound field from two speakers through the use of a head related transfer function when used with a four channel sound card. In addition, the algorithm provides enhanced stereo when used with a two channel sound card.


I do know about the forthcoming Northwood processor from Intel, but I will wait for that until its price is gone down and I'll upgrade the PC that I'll already have (the one I quoted above).

I did enquire about the type of socket Dell uses and they told me they use the socket 478 for their Pentium 4's.

Read this about Socket 478:
http://www.asus.com/products/techref/cpu/p4faq.html


I still can't see a good reason to go for the Athlon based systems!!
If I'm going to buy an Athlon, I can see myself upgrading and spending money all the time. What's the point of buying fast system that will become out of date soon and may be not compatible with newer software and hardware to come in the future? It will then cost a lot to upgrade. Isn't it better to go with intel which will last you a long while, with fewer upgrades?

Even if i DO have to upgrade, I think the pathways to upgrading a pentium will be much easier and required less often and hence much cheaper overall than the Athlons. Athlon has not yet settled down, it is still in the primitive stages of life even though it is faster than Pentium. So most of the Athlon based systems will become out of date pretty soon and would require upgrade.


BTW, you can't compare the price in pounds directly with the price in dollars. £1 is about $1.5, but something that costs £1 here in UK does not neccessarily cost $1.5 in the U.S. Look at the petrol (gas) prices, you get it much cheaper than us in the U.K.

I configured the system on Dell's U.K. website for the configuration I quoted in my first post above and it came out to £1,468.75 (inc VAT and deliv). (equivalent to about $2,200)

I did the same configuration on Dell's U.S. website and the price came to $2,425 (inc VAT and deliv)

But despite all this, I rang up directly to Dell, and got the same thing for £1300 (about $1950). Now is that a discount or what??!!

I want a system that will LAST A LONG TIME (both it's living time and also it's compatibilty with time) and so that it requires less money to be spent overall as time goes on.

 

[LoveGuRu]

1.if you want a northwood it will need a new socket, that means new mobo.
2.AMD will support new hardware and new software that will come in the future.
3.i can see you didnt spend any time reading the thread or articles on this site coz you would know better then to post the BS you did.

btw. AMD provided you with more money saving method of upgrading as they didnt change the cocked for every new CPU they released, socketA cpu's were long used by amd and provided the users a less expansive upgrade path over time.
i dont know on world you live on but on mine that looks like a good buy.

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