AMD TAKING ON CHIPSETS WITH HAMMER ?

mr_gobbledegook · Nov 9, 2001

SEE MY POST REGARDING HAMMER AND CHIPSETS dated: 11/30/01 08:19 AM

OLD NEWS:
I have some information on AMD's Hammer / Clawhammer from AMD's Annual Analyst Meeting. Also let me know what you think of AMD's approach to integrating the Northbridge with Hammer.

I am basing my claims on the sources below:

<A HREF="http://www.jc-news.com/index.cgi" target="_new">http://www.jc-news.com/index.cgi</A>

<A HREF="http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-7823482.html" target="_new">http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-7823482.html</A>

<A HREF="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/22750.html" target="_new">AMD delays Sledgehammer to Q1 2003</A>
<A HREF="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/22747.html" target="_new">AMD plans to beat 4.4GHz desktops</A>
<A HREF="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/22745.html" target="_new">AMD to debut Mobile Hammer in 2003</A>

Official AMD Slides - <A HREF="http://event.mediaondemand.com/amd/20011108/slides/" target="_new">http://event.mediaondemand.com/amd/20011108/slides/</A>

Run down of presentation slides, just for your convienence

...

Slides 3-4: Sales / Predicted Capital.(Boring)

Slides 7-18: AMD Philisophy and comments on efficency and small die size inc. Hammer (Slide 15). (Quite interesting).

Slides 21-29: Flash market and mirrorbit technology.

Slide 40: Simple mobile processor Roadmap 2001-2003.

Slides 32-41: Throughbred/Barton futures.

Slide 42: Server Roadmap 2001-2003.

Slides 42-44 : Old Hammer info.

Slides 47-49 : Processor sales / marketing.

Slide 50: Die size advantage Athlon vs P4

Slide 53 : LOL !! Check out Vans Hardware little comment.

Slides 54-65 : Marketing crap and quotes from websites. (Nice pictures though!)


~* K6-2 @ 333MHz *~
I don't need a 'Gigahertz' chip to surf the web just yet ;-)Edited by mr_gobbledegook on 11/30/01 08:28 AM.

lhgpoobaa · Nov 9, 2001

integrated onchip northbridge... ill drink to that.

OEMs selling "High End"PCs with integrated video will be forced into Q3tournaments using a TNT2M64!

Atolsammeek · Nov 9, 2001

Good info

rcf84 · Nov 9, 2001

So its fast as a T-Bird 3400mhz. WTF thats pretty slow. Dual P4 2.2ghz Xeon's w/ SMT could give it a good run. Well Dual Hammers wont be that bad. Well Intel Next IA64 chips looks good too around 1ghz and L2 6mb and 400mhz FSB!!!!!

Nice Nvidia and ATi users get a Cookie....

Yummy

mr_gobbledegook · Nov 9, 2001

MY COMMENTS ON THE CNET ARTICAL:

Its seems that Hammer at around 2GHz+ will be equivilant to PR 3400 (I dont care about PR rating anymore, its here to stay and you just have to live with it). Wow that is quite impressive should it be true, and since this is only the first release it would seem Hammer could be a VERY powerful prcessor and should give Intel a run for thier money especially with a 64 square millimeters die size @ 0.9 microns. Intel are only planning to hit 3Ghz by Q402, this should give AMD the performance lead.

I loved Jerry Sanders comments about Intel (get those claws out..MeeOW !)

"I think Intel is trapped. When they designed the Pentium 4, they didn't expect to have a real competitor in the marketplace with a meaningful alternative, they always underestimate us and being underestimated is a good thing."

A word of warning Jerry, perhaps you shouldn't underestimate Intel after all they are the daddy of processor design / manufacturing.

Itanium, meanwhile, will suffer because of the difficulty of producing software applications for the chip. Itanium uses a different architecture than other Intel chips. Hammer, meanwhile, is compatible with existing 32-bit applications.

Itanium is still being refined and am sure it hasn't flexed its full capabilites yet. Intel will have a couple of tricks up its sleeve.

"My biggest fear is that Intel will come out with a 32-bit processor with 64-bit extensions because it is the right thing to do," he said. "The Itanium it turns out is a niche product...We are going to have a role in the industry because we better fulfil Microsoft's needs."

I am not too sure about this comment, I doubt Intel will bring out 32 and 64bit compatible processor that would be totally against Intel's philosophy...as Intels PR person describes Hammer as a 'Pinto with larger tyres' (<A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/08110103.htm" target="_new">http://www.theinquirer.net/08110103.htm</A>). Itanium may be a niche product now but it will only get more popular as time goes by.

"At the end of the day, we need to get a Compaq, Dell or HP, he said. "IBM is going to be tough."

YES ! I am glad Jerry recognises this. No matter how good the architecture and speed AMD will lose if they don't get an industry backer. Lets look at the options..

HP/COMPAQ - No way ! They are one company now and have already committed themselves to Itainum, especially as HP co-developed the Itanium with Intel.

DELL - They haven't touched an AMD CPU and are stupidly loyal to Intel.

IBM - They already have thier precious Power4 processors are unlikley to give AMD a hand.

SUN - ...you got to be kidding that is out of AMD's league.

That only leaves small server manufacturers...perhaps Fujitsu might adopt Hammer. I can't think of any other major players in the server market, please tell me if I am wrong or have missed one out. Yep..even though I love AMD's products I think AMD Hammer in the server market will fail unless they find a loyal customer. However looking on the bright side Claw Hammer (desktop) will kick ass and leave P4 way behind.

Stay tuned more comments will arrive soon !....

~* K6-2 @ 333MHz *~
I don't need a 'Gigahertz' chip to surf the web just yet ;-)

rcf84 · Nov 9, 2001

Well dont forget Itatium is tomorrows chips. Hammer is today when 64-bit starts to get mainstream INTEL has the edge. Currently its all 32-bit HAMMER gets the edge. Well then you got too remember the P4 2.2ghz Xeon's will have Jackson Technology that like SMP on chip giving it a huge proformace increase. I saw somewhere a single 2.0ghz Xeon's with Jackson technology beat Dual 1.2ghz Athlon MP's and Dual 1.7ghz Xeon's.

Nice Nvidia and ATi users get a Cookie....

Yummy

mr_gobbledegook · Nov 9, 2001

Run down of presentation slides (<A HREF="http://event.mediaondemand.com/amd/20011108/slides/" target="_new">click!</A>, just for your convienence

...

Slides 3-4: Sales / Predicted Capital.(Boring)

Slides 7-18: AMD Philisophy and comments on efficency and small die size inc. Hammer (Slide 15). (Quite interesting).

Slides 21-29: Flash market and mirrorbit technology.

Slide 40: Simple mobile processor Roadmap 2001-2003.

Slides 32-41: Throughbred/Barton futures.

Slide 42: Server Roadmap 2001-2003.

Slides 42-44 : Old Hammer info.

Slides 47-49 : Processor sales / marketing.

Slide 50: Die size advantage Athlon vs P4

Slide 53 : LOL !! Check out Vans Hardware little comment.

Slides 54-65 : Marketing crap and quotes from websites. (Nice pictures though!)

~* K6-2 @ 333MHz *~
I don't need a 'Gigahertz' chip to surf the web just yet ;-)

mr_gobbledegook · Nov 9, 2001

Question is how good is Hammer's 64 bit performance ??

~* K6-2 @ 333MHz *~
I don't need a 'Gigahertz' chip to surf the web just yet ;-)

rcf84 · Nov 9, 2001

Well i believe AMD did state that the Itatium can run 64-bit easier then the HAMMER.

<A HREF="http://www.x86-64.org/faq/Architecture" target="_new">http://www.x86-64.org/faq/Architecture</A>

IA-64 is an Explicitly Parallel Instruction Computer (EPIC) as opposed to the x86-64 which will be CISC (Complex Instruction Set Computer) what this means in short is that the IA-64 will generally execute code much more efficiently with less effort.

Very likely the IA-64 will sit around as a Commerical grade processor for a while, since it's design is not directly suited towards general-use yet (new technology and all) While the x86-64 appears to be directly targetting the general consumer with it's direct compatibility with x86-32 code.

IA-64 has 127 integer general purpose registers and x86-64 only 16
----
...AMD's Hammer has about 1/3 the registers as the Itanium has (registers cost $$).

IA-64 is a new architecture, x86-64 an extension of IA-32

Nice Nvidia and ATi users get a Cookie....

Yummy

mr_gobbledegook · Nov 9, 2001

With this in mind it looks like Hammer doesn't have a bright future.

A. Because of Jackson SMP (Although when this filters down to desktop is in question).

B. 64 Bit performance will be limited.

The only benifit is that you will be able to get 64 bit and 32 bit capatibility at a cheap price, other than that not much else. Will this be enough to keep Hammer going ? Worst case scenerio AMD will have to produce a IA-64 clone if Intel lets them.

Everything looks a little muddy to me....

~* K6-2 @ 333MHz *~
I don't need a 'Gigahertz' chip to surf the web just yet ;-)

rcf84 · Nov 9, 2001

There going to in due time. Remember IA32 has life still left. Well IA64 is easier to set as a standard. Like AMD is still paying royalitys to intel to use the x86. IA64 would be no different. IA64 can hold a load of more memory over the HAMMER.

Nice Nvidia and ATi users get a Cookie....

Yummy

LoveGuRu · Nov 9, 2001

i dont think that a 64 bit software move will take place in about 3 to 5 years(hiting mainstream), im sure AMD wont stop at HAMMER@32bit, just a closer step towards the 64 bit change, its like a mobo that supports both SDR and DDR memories, it can run both(while running the SDR faster)yet still supports the newer faster DDR.
while the HAMMER appear sometime next year (izzit?), should be targeted for servers first and maybe later for us home (ab)users.

AMD dont need a big market leader, companies unlike usual consumers know what they are buying, if they see that the price/performance/stability of the system is substantionally higher then compatative systems, they will know what to do, as they are not fooled with Mhz numbers.

Go AMD Go!

*******
*K.I.S.S*
*(k)eep (I)t (S)imple (S)tupid*
*******

rcf84 · Nov 9, 2001

The thing is Intel Design IA64 to last a very very long time taking 20+ years. AMD will goto IA64 in a couple of years when people are ready for 64-bit desktops. The thing

My views is that x86-64 is a quick fix till IA64 is more accepted in the workstation and Desktop market.

Nice Nvidia and ATi users get a Cookie....

Yummy

AmdMELTDOWN · Nov 9, 2001

Interesting but did AMD pay THG for the picture on slide 62?

"AMD/VIA!...you are still the weakest link, good bye!"

LoveGuRu · Nov 9, 2001

few years ago i programmed in asembly, thogh i dont remember much about the CPU and the 32bit platform,
here's my question, cant you built a part to trasnlate multi bit built programs? or am i missing somehting here?


*******
*K.I.S.S*
*(k)eep (I)t (S)imple (S)tupid*
*******

Guest · Nov 9, 2001

Does that matter? I mean if my logo suddenly appear on one of AMD's slides I'ed think wayhay free plug.

I wanna be a hippie and I wanna get stoned yeah.

bum_jcrules · Nov 9, 2001

The idea for Hammer is the same when processors went from 16 to 32. Intel built processors to bridge the gap and that is what AMD is doing here. Intel is skipping this step. Who knows who will have it play in their direction.

So coming back to assembly language I have no idea of the implamentation but my quess is that it will be a repeat in history but at 32 to 64 instead of 16 to 32.

All for one and one for all...and 3 for 5! - Curly - The Three Stooges :lol:

SammyBoy · Nov 9, 2001

Interesting to note that, while here on the forums we've speculated about the need for high memory bandwidth with the Hammer core, it seems that AMD is still banking on DDR. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out. So, I guess for right now, DDR is the accepted memory, as both chipmakers sanction it's use, whereas RDRAM is an Intel-only solution. WHat does this mean? Dunno. But all this sure makes for a good time to be a computer enthusiast.

-SammyBoy

bum_jcrules · Nov 9, 2001

Check out the other thread on Bandwith here in the CPU section. That will bring you up to speed on that argument. SDRAM solutions vs. RDRAM. I don't think that needs to be brought up here on this thread too. Because bandwith is not the only issue with RAM; Latencies inherent in the memory type, speed in clocks, bits per clock, production technologies, etc. See that other page.

All for one and one for all...and 3 for 5! - Curly - The Three Stooges :lol:

Guest · Nov 9, 2001

If there is no ECC memory support this chip will never get the light of day in the real world of servers sorry people i read the anadtech article and understood very clearly as you all should too 16 bit never ran any faster on 32 bit cpus this will go the same again. Sanders underestimates Intels power over the industry as well how many top teir's will take this chip under there wing...i imagine not many.

-Spuddy

Being Evil Is Good. Cause I Can Be A Prick And Get Away With It. :lol:

LoveGuRu · Nov 9, 2001

what are you talking about?
there is ECC RDRAM and ECC DDR SDRAM.

Bum_JCRules: well my question was, can you create a chip that will only trasnlate between the 32 bit to 64 and visaversa?
do we really need the processor to handle that or we can present an vesitile iterface for both methods?


*******
*K.I.S.S*
*(k)eep (I)t (S)imple (S)tupid*
*******

somerandomguy · Nov 9, 2001

<A HREF="http://event.mediaondemand.com/amd/20011108/slides/Slide35.jpg" target="_new">Slide 35</A> is pretty interesting, where it shows the Hammer on December '02, performing more than twice as fast as the current Athlons.

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."

Kelledin · Nov 9, 2001

Where have you been? DDR memory has had ECC support since at least March (when I got my memory) and probably even earlier.

Kelledin
<A HREF="http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/" target="_new">LFS</A>: "You don't eat or sleep or mow the lawn; you just hack your distro all day long."

Guest · Nov 10, 2001

Well Intel Next IA64 chips looks good too around 1ghz and L2 6mb and 400mhz FSB!!!!!

You forget that say 128 bit FSB

Matisaro · Nov 10, 2001

Rcf, read my thread on epic and itanium, it seems that EPIC has more problems than the very language it was trying to replace, and that it is not so well suited for the future after all.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

AMD TAKING ON CHIPSETS WITH HAMMER ?

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