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Upgrading Memory Sticks

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Anonymous
a b } Memory
March 28, 2005 2:55:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

I have a Clie NX80V/U. I have a 256 Memory Stick and I want to
upgrade to a larger one.

How do you transfer all the files over from one MS to another? I
don't even know if the MS comes formatted. If the new MS is already
formatted, how do you add directories, like the DXTG for Documents to
Go?

I assume you have to move the whole card to a regular computer
directory, then move files, directory by directory. Is that correct?
Anonymous
a b } Memory
March 28, 2005 8:09:12 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

xx1xx@excite.com wrote:
> I have a Clie NX80V/U. I have a 256 Memory Stick and I want to
> upgrade to a larger one.
>
> How do you transfer all the files over from one MS to another? I
> don't even know if the MS comes formatted. If the new MS is already
> formatted, how do you add directories, like the DXTG for Documents to
> Go?
>
> I assume you have to move the whole card to a regular computer
> directory, then move files, directory by directory. Is that correct?

Do you have a card reader?

If so, plug the old card in on your computer, then select everything
and copy it to some temporary place (make a folder on your desktop).

Then, put the new card in. Most likely, it's formatted, but if not,
then format it as a "FAT" filesystem. (Hopefully your operating
system will give you this option.) Then, copy all those files
from the old one to the new one.

That should be all that's required.

In theory you can do the transfer on the Palm, but it's about a
million times easier to use a card reader.

- Logan
Anonymous
a b } Memory
March 28, 2005 8:09:13 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Logan Shaw wrote:

> xx1xx@excite.com wrote:
>> I have a Clie NX80V/U. I have a 256 Memory Stick and I want to
>> upgrade to a larger one.
>>
>> How do you transfer all the files over from one MS to another? I
>> don't even know if the MS comes formatted. If the new MS is already
>> formatted, how do you add directories, like the DXTG for Documents to
>> Go?
>>
>> I assume you have to move the whole card to a regular computer
>> directory, then move files, directory by directory. Is that correct?
>
> Do you have a card reader?
>
> If so, plug the old card in on your computer, then select everything
> and copy it to some temporary place (make a folder on your desktop).
>
> Then, put the new card in. Most likely, it's formatted, but if not,
> then format it as a "FAT" filesystem. (Hopefully your operating
> system will give you this option.) Then, copy all those files
> from the old one to the new one.

DON'T DO THIS. Use the MS Export utility that comes with the NX, copy the
files to the PC, then put the new Memory Stick in the NX and copy them
back.

> That should be all that's required.
>
> In theory you can do the transfer on the Palm, but it's about a
> million times easier to use a card reader.

Actually, it's not a million times easier than using MS Import/Export, it's
almost exactly the same process, and the Clie doesn't barf on the result
like it does if you format the Memory Stick in a PC.
>
> - Logan

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Related resources
Anonymous
a b } Memory
March 29, 2005 1:24:35 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

It is alleged that J. Clarke claimed:

; > Then, put the new card in. Most likely, it's formatted, but if not,
; > then format it as a "FAT" filesystem. (Hopefully your operating
; > system will give you this option.) Then, copy all those files
; > from the old one to the new one.
;
; DON'T DO THIS. Use the MS Export utility that comes with the NX, copy the
; files to the PC, then put the new Memory Stick in the NX and copy them
; back.

Do "do this", only do the card formatting from the Clie, and the
copying with a card reader. It's faster.

It's ok if you don't have a card reader, but if you do, use the card
reader for the copying of files.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

DISCLAIMER: You must be present to win.
Anonymous
a b } Memory
March 29, 2005 1:31:24 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

I think that would accomplish the same thing as Data-Export, both the
card reader and the MS in the NX80 would be accessable in Windows
Explorer. I assume the MS is formatted but how do you add a directory
on an MS. Can you do it via Windows Explorer?

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 04:09:12 GMT, Logan Shaw
<lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote:

>xx1xx@excite.com wrote:
>> I have a Clie NX80V/U. I have a 256 Memory Stick and I want to
>> upgrade to a larger one.
>>
>> How do you transfer all the files over from one MS to another? I
>> don't even know if the MS comes formatted. If the new MS is already
>> formatted, how do you add directories, like the DXTG for Documents to
>> Go?
>>
>> I assume you have to move the whole card to a regular computer
>> directory, then move files, directory by directory. Is that correct?
>
>Do you have a card reader?
>
>If so, plug the old card in on your computer, then select everything
>and copy it to some temporary place (make a folder on your desktop).
>
>Then, put the new card in. Most likely, it's formatted, but if not,
>then format it as a "FAT" filesystem. (Hopefully your operating
>system will give you this option.) Then, copy all those files
>from the old one to the new one.
>
>That should be all that's required.
>
>In theory you can do the transfer on the Palm, but it's about a
>million times easier to use a card reader.
>
> - Logan
Anonymous
a b } Memory
March 29, 2005 1:35:27 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Thanks again John! I'd still love an NX80 with 128 meg in the
Handheld!! It's never gonna happen now that Sony dropped out.

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 00:38:02 -0500, "J. Clarke"
<jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid> wrote:

>Logan Shaw wrote:
>
>> xx1xx@excite.com wrote:
>>> I have a Clie NX80V/U. I have a 256 Memory Stick and I want to
>>> upgrade to a larger one.
>>>
>>> How do you transfer all the files over from one MS to another? I
>>> don't even know if the MS comes formatted. If the new MS is already
>>> formatted, how do you add directories, like the DXTG for Documents to
>>> Go?
>>>
>>> I assume you have to move the whole card to a regular computer
>>> directory, then move files, directory by directory. Is that correct?
>>
>> Do you have a card reader?
>>
>> If so, plug the old card in on your computer, then select everything
>> and copy it to some temporary place (make a folder on your desktop).
>>
>> Then, put the new card in. Most likely, it's formatted, but if not,
>> then format it as a "FAT" filesystem. (Hopefully your operating
>> system will give you this option.) Then, copy all those files
>> from the old one to the new one.
>
>DON'T DO THIS. Use the MS Export utility that comes with the NX, copy the
>files to the PC, then put the new Memory Stick in the NX and copy them
>back.
>
>> That should be all that's required.
>>
>> In theory you can do the transfer on the Palm, but it's about a
>> million times easier to use a card reader.
>
>Actually, it's not a million times easier than using MS Import/Export, it's
>almost exactly the same process, and the Clie doesn't barf on the result
>like it does if you format the Memory Stick in a PC.
>>
>> - Logan
Anonymous
a b } Memory
March 29, 2005 8:04:18 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

xx1xx@excite.com wrote:
> I think that would accomplish the same thing as Data-Export, both the
> card reader and the MS in the NX80 would be accessable in Windows
> Explorer. I assume the MS is formatted but how do you add a directory
> on an MS. Can you do it via Windows Explorer?

I don't know why you seem intent on creating each directory by
hand. Just create some temporary folder (call it "clie-stuff")
on the desktop. Then put the old Memory Stick in, from Windows
do a "select all" on everything inside the Memory Stick, then
"copy" all that. Then open the temporary folder, then do a
"paste" of everything into there.

Then eject the Memory Stick volume, then put the new Memory Stick
in, then select all in "clie-stuff", do "copy", then open the
new Memory Stick's root folder and do "paste" to put everything
in there.

That should copy everything from the old to the new, including
all the directories and everything within them.

- Logan
Anonymous
a b } Memory
March 29, 2005 8:06:27 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

J. Clarke wrote:
> Actually, it's not a million times easier than using MS Import/Export, it's
> almost exactly the same process, and the Clie doesn't barf on the result
> like it does if you format the Memory Stick in a PC.

Wow, I was unaware that formatting on a PC could cause such problems.
It seems to work fine on PalmOne devices, but I don't own a Clie, so I
can't say it will definitely work on there.

Also, even if I were right that it would work to format on the PC,
you still have a good suggestion because it seems wiser to format
the card on the Clie regardless of what you use to copy files. That
just seems much more likely to be compatible and no have some
kind of a problem.

- Logan
Anonymous
a b } Memory
March 29, 2005 11:23:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote in news:6t42e.41287$Ux.526
@tornado.texas.rr.com:

> I don't know why you seem intent on creating each directory by
> hand. Just create some temporary folder (call it "clie-stuff")
> on the desktop. Then put the old Memory Stick in, from Windows
> do a "select all" on everything inside the Memory Stick, then
> "copy" all that. Then open the temporary folder, then do a
> "paste" of everything into there.
>
> Then eject the Memory Stick volume, then put the new Memory Stick
> in, then select all in "clie-stuff", do "copy", then open the
> new Memory Stick's root folder and do "paste" to put everything
> in there.

Or just select the card, "copy", put the new MS in the reader, and
"paste". You don't have to actually write the files to a hard disk
directory, it's just like copying a floppy. To Windows, the card reader
is just another removable drive, and the MS is just another floppy disk.

--
Regards,

Stan

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." B. Franklin
Anonymous
a b } Memory
March 29, 2005 11:44:25 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Stan Gosnell wrote:
> Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote in news:6t42e.41287$Ux.526
> @tornado.texas.rr.com:
>>Just create some temporary folder (call it "clie-stuff")
>>on the desktop. Then put the old Memory Stick in, from Windows
>>do a "select all" on everything inside the Memory Stick, then
>>"copy" all that.

> Or just select the card, "copy", put the new MS in the reader, and
> "paste". You don't have to actually write the files to a hard disk
> directory, it's just like copying a floppy.

Hmm, I was under the impression that when you do a "copy" in Windows
it doesn't actually copy the files but merely remembers what files
you have told it to copy. Then it does the actual copy when you
do "paste".

Does it handle removable media differently? Where does it put those
hundreds of megabytes of data temporarily (from the old Memory Stick)
between the time you do "copy" and "paste"?

- Logan
Anonymous
a b } Memory
March 29, 2005 11:44:26 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 19:44:25 GMT, someone posing as Logan Shaw donned
fireproof bloomers and chiseled in the wall:

> Stan Gosnell wrote:
>> Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote in news:6t42e.41287$Ux.526
>> @tornado.texas.rr.com:
>>>Just create some temporary folder (call it "clie-stuff")
>>>on the desktop. Then put the old Memory Stick in, from Windows
>>>do a "select all" on everything inside the Memory Stick, then
>>>"copy" all that.
>
>> Or just select the card, "copy", put the new MS in the reader, and
>> "paste". You don't have to actually write the files to a hard disk
>> directory, it's just like copying a floppy.
>
> Hmm, I was under the impression that when you do a "copy" in Windows
> it doesn't actually copy the files but merely remembers what files
> you have told it to copy. Then it does the actual copy when you
> do "paste".
>
> Does it handle removable media differently? Where does it put those
> hundreds of megabytes of data temporarily (from the old Memory Stick)
> between the time you do "copy" and "paste"?
>
> - Logan

Actually I just did this yesterday. I upgraded from a 128MB to a 512MB SD
card.

After putting the card in a reader, I just opened up Konquerer and copied
the entire directory structure to a directory under my home. I then
swapped SD cards and copied the structure back.

I put it in my Pilot and everything worked great. This is how I read all my
plucker4 documents, too.

I've now got 45 MP3's there. :) 
--
kai - theperfectreign@yahoo.com - www.perfectreign.com

kai:/> format a:
Error: The DOS concept of formatting disk media is screwed.
To format a floppy, use "fdformat /dev/fd0"
and then "mkfs.minix /dev/fd0".
March 30, 2005 2:06:06 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 19:44:25 GMT, Logan Shaw wrote:

> > Or just select the card, "copy", put the new MS in the reader, and
> > "paste". You don't have to actually write the files to a hard disk
> > directory, it's just like copying a floppy.
>
> Hmm, I was under the impression that when you do a "copy" in Windows
> it doesn't actually copy the files but merely remembers what files
> you have told it to copy. Then it does the actual copy when you
> do "paste".
>
> Does it handle removable media differently? Where does it put those
> hundreds of megabytes of data temporarily (from the old Memory Stick)
> between the time you do "copy" and "paste"?

It highly doubt that it would do any copying between the time you
tell it to "copy" and "paste", but if it did, it probably would be
to a temp directory or virtual memory. What it does remind me of
though is how DOS computers with limited memory could copy floppy
disks even in computer systems having only a single floppy disk
drive. It involved a dance with discs ("remove source disk";
"insert destination disk", . . . , repeatedly, until finished.)
But first, one has to ask why Windows would attempt to copy
*anything* before the paste operation was initiated? Because until
then, how would Windows be able to assume that the paste operation
wouldn't be to the hard drive and not back to another card in the
same reader?
Anonymous
a b } Memory
March 30, 2005 2:06:07 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"BillB" <rainbose@earthlink.newt> wrote in message
news:5ojj41h7197v70pr9knsg3peqa8on7tue1@4ax.com...
> It highly doubt that it would do any copying between the time you
> tell it to "copy" and "paste", but if it did, it probably would be
> to a temp directory or virtual memory.

It doesn't. You have to copy the files to a hard disk directory / folder or
another flash drive first. Copy (or cut, if you want to erase the old flash
card), paste to hard disk; cut from hard disk, paste to new MemoryStick.

Jim
Anonymous
a b } Memory
March 30, 2005 2:47:09 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

BillB wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 19:44:25 GMT, Logan Shaw wrote:

>>Hmm, I was under the impression that when you do a "copy" in Windows
>>it doesn't actually copy the files but merely remembers what files
>>you have told it to copy.

> It highly doubt that it would do any copying between the time you
> tell it to "copy" and "paste",

> But first, one has to ask why Windows would attempt to copy
> *anything* before the paste operation was initiated? Because until
> then, how would Windows be able to assume that the paste operation
> wouldn't be to the hard drive and not back to another card in the
> same reader?

Hmm, it occurs to me that there's actually a clever way to solve
this problem: when someone selects "copy", make a note of which
volume(s) they selected from. Then, if the user tries to eject
that volume, only *then* try to copy it to some temporary location.
(But maybe ask the user first if they really care.) This still
wastes time copying in a few cases, but it would be more efficient
than just always preemptively copying if it's removeable media.

Not that I think Windows actually does this. It isn't clear at all
that it's a good idea, anyway, although it would make this one
particular operation more convenient...

- Logan
Anonymous
a b } Memory
March 30, 2005 4:30:54 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote in news:tei2e.22095
$ot.16665@tornado.texas.rr.com:

> Hmm, I was under the impression that when you do a "copy" in Windows
> it doesn't actually copy the files but merely remembers what files
> you have told it to copy. Then it does the actual copy when you
> do "paste".
>
> Does it handle removable media differently? Where does it put those
> hundreds of megabytes of data temporarily (from the old Memory Stick)
> between the time you do "copy" and "paste"?

It does it just like it did when you used 1.44MB floppies with 64K of
RAM. It prompts you to put the first one in, copies it to disk, and then
prompts you for the new stick. It's copied temporarily to disk, but you
don't have to worry about removing the temp files, they're removed
automatically. Try it sometime.

--
Regards,

Stan

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." B. Franklin
Anonymous
a b } Memory
March 30, 2005 4:33:38 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Jim MacKenzie" <jim@dusykbarlow.sk.ca> wrote in
news:4249d694$1@news.accesscomm.ca:

> It doesn't. You have to copy the files to a hard disk directory /
> folder or another flash drive first. Copy (or cut, if you want to
> erase the old flash card), paste to hard disk; cut from hard disk,
> paste to new MemoryStick.

Try it sometime. The files are copied to hard disk, but you don't have
to do it manually. Windows does it behind the scenes, just like it did
with a single floppy disk which was larger than the amount of RAM
available. You're prompted to swap the cards when needed.

--
Regards,

Stan

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." B. Franklin
March 30, 2005 4:34:30 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:47:09 GMT, Logan Shaw wrote:

> Hmm, it occurs to me that there's actually a clever way to solve
> this problem: when someone selects "copy", make a note of which
> volume(s) they selected from. Then, if the user tries to eject
> that volume, only *then* try to copy it to some temporary location.
> (But maybe ask the user first if they really care.) This still
> wastes time copying in a few cases, but it would be more efficient
> than just always preemptively copying if it's removeable media.

But my card reader has no way to lock the card, so Windows could
only pop up a window and ask me to "please put the same card back
into the the reader". It would be far more annoying if on seeing
the "copy" operation request it was able to actually lock the card
in the reader, although I suppose it could release the lock when it
saw the paste operation would be to the hard drive. But that
'smarter' handling might have to be applied with an interim bug fix
or service pack. :) 

Even though I've never used a Mac, I think I recall early versions
causing user problems when under certain conditions the OS wouldn't
unlock the floppy disk drive. It might have been when even though
there was free space on the hard drive, it had too many files saved
on it. Or something like that, like maybe when trying to delete
files. An early Mac user might recall more accurately.
March 30, 2005 4:40:24 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 16:28:46 -0600, Jim MacKenzie wrote:

> It doesn't. You have to copy the files to a hard disk directory / folder or
> another flash drive first. Copy (or cut, if you want to erase the old flash
> card), paste to hard disk; cut from hard disk, paste to new MemoryStick.

You know, for several years I never used Copy/Paste to copy files.
I'd select "Copy", see no disk activity and wonder what was supposed
to be copied. The file, data to create a .LNK file, or what? So
for a long time I simply used drag&drop to copy. When it didn't
Move instead of Copy, that is. The 'c' in Microsoft doesn't stand
for consistency.
Anonymous
a b } Memory
March 30, 2005 5:01:33 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

BillB wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:47:09 GMT, Logan Shaw wrote:

>>Hmm, it occurs to me that there's actually a clever way to solve
>>this problem: when someone selects "copy", make a note of which
>>volume(s) they selected from. Then, if the user tries to eject
>>that volume, only *then* try to copy it to some temporary location.
>>(But maybe ask the user first if they really care.)

> But my card reader has no way to lock the card, so Windows could
> only pop up a window and ask me to "please put the same card back

I was assuming that everyone is a good citizen and always selects
"Eject" from whatever menu before removing the card. That's what
I always do, at least. Anyway, if everyone were to do that, then
it would be possible to copy the copy-pending data to some other
location (assuming available free space) before unmounting, i.e.
(in Windows) changing the H: (or whatever drive letter) icon from
the your-volume icon to the generic-removeable-drive icon.

On the other hand, as I said, my assumption that people always
select "eject" is probably flawed, especially considering that
SD Cards and Memory Sticks are often formatted with a FAT filesystem,
which actually allows you to safely yank the card in some cases
without first telling the OS to (virtually) eject it.

So, so much my brilliant little idea...

- Logan
March 30, 2005 6:42:48 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 01:01:33 GMT, Logan Shaw wrote:

> So, so much my brilliant little idea...

Nothing to worry about or be ashamed of. Unless, that is, you had
something to do with Microsoft's BOB or talking paperclips. :) 
Anonymous
a b } Memory
March 30, 2005 8:13:55 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

BillB wrote:
> Nothing to worry about or be ashamed of. Unless, that is, you had
> something to do with Microsoft's BOB or talking paperclips. :) 

No, although I did once listen to a talk at IBM by the guy on whose
work Microsoft Bob was based. Really smart guy with some good
insights into how people relate to computers. His research indicated
people anthropomorphize them to the extent that if the computer words
an error message in a way that indicates a lack of skill on the part
of the user ("you entered the wrong filename") vs. in a way that makes
it seems that the error was not the user's fault ("the file could not
be found"), that the "meaner" messages tend to cause people to actual
rate the *computer's* abilities to perform tasks lower when asked how
useful they think the computer is. Which is totally irrational, since
it's not a social situation and the computer is not a person. But,
people do it anyway.

Anyway, though it was interesting research, that doesn't mean it
was ever a good idea to turn it into a *product*. Obviously...

- Logan
Anonymous
a b } Memory
March 30, 2005 7:06:52 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

It is alleged that BillB claimed:

; You know, for several years I never used Copy/Paste to copy files.
; I'd select "Copy", see no disk activity and wonder what was supposed
; to be copied. The file, data to create a .LNK file, or what? So
; for a long time I simply used drag&drop to copy. When it didn't
; Move instead of Copy, that is. The 'c' in Microsoft doesn't stand
; for consistency.

The drag&drop action is consistent. When you drag and drop within a
disk or partition, it moves the file. When you drag and drop between
disks or partitions, it copies. You can modify these actions by
holding the <shift> <alt> or <ctrl> keys. <shift> makes it a move,
<alt> makes it create a shortcut instead, and <ctrl> makes it a copy.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"The Superior Person's Book Of Words", by Peter Bowler: CARDIALGIA:
Heartburn, i.e., mild indigestion. To the uninitiated, however,
cardialgia sounds like a serious disorder of the heart; hence suitable
for excuses, sympathy-seeking ploys, etc.
Anonymous
a b } Memory
March 30, 2005 7:09:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

It is alleged that Logan Shaw claimed:

; I was assuming that everyone is a good citizen and always selects
; "Eject" from whatever menu before removing the card. That's what

There is no "Eject" for my reader. If I use the closes thing, the
"Safely remove hardware" command, it turns off the reader, not the
card.

All I have to do to safely remove a card is wait for the activity light
to stop flashing.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

DISCLAIMER: Not authorized for use as critical components in life
support devices or systems.
!