3.0 question on concentration

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

This came up last night. All the players naturally had one view, the DM
had another. Is there an official ruling on this posted anywhere?

10th level Wizard is casting a long 5th level spell (full-round or
longer). He is attacked by creatures with poison. The creatures do 8
hit points of damage and the poison does 6 CON damage. What is the
concentration roll needed to avoid losing the spell?

In this case the players pretty much agree that only hit points damage
were intended for the Concentration skill: DC 10+damage taken+spell
level being cast. So the DC is in this case 10+8+5, DC 23.

The DM ruled that since the poison reduced CON by 6 points, the
character lost 30 hit points. He set the DC at 10+38+5, DC 53. Even
though the lost hit points could not be recovered with a cure wounds
spell, he counted them as "damage taken".

So, please direct me to any official ruling. 3.0 preference, but 3.5 if
that's all you can find.

Alex

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Alex Johnson <compuwiz@psualum.com> wrote:
> This came up last night. All the players naturally had one view, the DM
> had another. Is there an official ruling on this posted anywhere?
>
> 10th level Wizard is casting a long 5th level spell (full-round or
> longer). He is attacked by creatures with poison. The creatures do 8
> hit points of damage and the poison does 6 CON damage. What is the
> concentration roll needed to avoid losing the spell?
>
> In this case the players pretty much agree that only hit points damage
> were intended for the Concentration skill: DC 10+damage taken+spell
> level being cast. So the DC is in this case 10+8+5, DC 23.
>
> The DM ruled that since the poison reduced CON by 6 points, the
> character lost 30 hit points. He set the DC at 10+38+5, DC 53. Even
> though the lost hit points could not be recovered with a cure wounds
> spell, he counted them as "damage taken".
>
> So, please direct me to any official ruling. 3.0 preference, but 3.5 if
> that's all you can find.

*without* looking in the books -- largely since this is a weird question
that probably wouldn't have been addressed there, but may be a FAQ --
I'd do the following:

Concentration check DC 23 (10 + 8 + 5), but suffers a -3 penalty (six
point Con loss).

He has taken only 8 points of damage, not 38 (as you say, it can't be
restored with CLW, it's not *damage* per se), but because he's taken Con
damage (6 points == net -3 reduction in modifier) it's still harder than
normal.

Hrm... it maybe seems that it should be harder yet -- hit point damage
is one thing, but Con damage could be considered more distracting -- but
I think the big hit point hit and the decreased modifier to the check is
probably harsh enough.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch

 

[gil-galad]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Personnally, in that situation I would put the damage taken as the
difference between PC hp before attack and PC hp after attack.
Like that it would be a number between 8 and 30. If you lose CON,
you surely suffer pain and that pain represented by that hp loss.

GG

Alex Johnson wrote:
> This came up last night. All the players naturally had one view, the DM
> had another. Is there an official ruling on this posted anywhere?
>
> 10th level Wizard is casting a long 5th level spell (full-round or
> longer). He is attacked by creatures with poison. The creatures do 8
> hit points of damage and the poison does 6 CON damage. What is the
> concentration roll needed to avoid losing the spell?
>
> In this case the players pretty much agree that only hit points damage
> were intended for the Concentration skill: DC 10+damage taken+spell
> level being cast. So the DC is in this case 10+8+5, DC 23.
>
> The DM ruled that since the poison reduced CON by 6 points, the
> character lost 30 hit points. He set the DC at 10+38+5, DC 53. Even
> though the lost hit points could not be recovered with a cure wounds
> spell, he counted them as "damage taken".
>
> So, please direct me to any official ruling. 3.0 preference, but 3.5 if
> that's all you can find.
>
> Alex

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Alex Johnson wrote:
> This came up last night. All the players naturally had one view, the
DM
> had another. Is there an official ruling on this posted anywhere?
>
> 10th level Wizard is casting a long 5th level spell (full-round or
> longer). He is attacked by creatures with poison. The creatures do
8
> hit points of damage and the poison does 6 CON damage. What is the
> concentration roll needed to avoid losing the spell?
>
> In this case the players pretty much agree that only hit points
damage
> were intended for the Concentration skill: DC 10+damage taken+spell
> level being cast. So the DC is in this case 10+8+5, DC 23.
>
> The DM ruled that since the poison reduced CON by 6 points, the
> character lost 30 hit points. He set the DC at 10+38+5, DC 53. Even

> though the lost hit points could not be recovered with a cure wounds
> spell, he counted them as "damage taken".
>
> So, please direct me to any official ruling. 3.0 preference, but 3.5
if
> that's all you can find.
>

I would run it as not hp damage, it lowers your maximum and current HP.
This does not affect concentration (other than the lowered con).

However the SRD is somewhat ambiguous in it's wording, "If a
character's Constitution score drops, then he loses 1 hit point per
Hit Die for every point by which his Constitution modifier drops. A hit
point score can't be reduced by Constitution damage or drain to less
than 1 hit point per Hit Die."

It doesn't say damage, and by the wording one could possibly heal the
lost HP. I'd never allow it though.

- Justisaur

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Alex Johnson <compuwiz@psualum.com> writes
>This came up last night. All the players naturally had one view, the
>DM had another. Is there an official ruling on this posted anywhere?
>
>10th level Wizard is casting a long 5th level spell (full-round or
>longer). He is attacked by creatures with poison. The creatures do 8
>hit points of damage and the poison does 6 CON damage. What is the
>concentration roll needed to avoid losing the spell?

I agree with Keith and your players. The Concentration check is already
being penalised by the poison Con damage, so why add insult to injury
(no pun intended).

--
Ian R Malcomson
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box"

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Justisaur wrote:
> Alex Johnson wrote:
>
>>This came up last night. All the players naturally had one view, the
>
> DM
>
>>had another. Is there an official ruling on this posted anywhere?
>>
>>10th level Wizard is casting a long 5th level spell (full-round or
>>longer). He is attacked by creatures with poison. The creatures do
>
> 8
>
>>hit points of damage and the poison does 6 CON damage. What is the
>>concentration roll needed to avoid losing the spell?
>>
>>In this case the players pretty much agree that only hit points
>
> damage
>
>>were intended for the Concentration skill: DC 10+damage taken+spell
>>level being cast. So the DC is in this case 10+8+5, DC 23.
>>
>>The DM ruled that since the poison reduced CON by 6 points, the
>>character lost 30 hit points. He set the DC at 10+38+5, DC 53. Even
>
>
>>though the lost hit points could not be recovered with a cure wounds
>>spell, he counted them as "damage taken".
>>
>>So, please direct me to any official ruling. 3.0 preference, but 3.5
>
> if
>
>>that's all you can find.
>>
>
>
> I would run it as not hp damage, it lowers your maximum and current HP.
> This does not affect concentration (other than the lowered con).
>
> However the SRD is somewhat ambiguous in it's wording, "If a
> character's Constitution score drops, then he loses 1 hit point per
> Hit Die for every point by which his Constitution modifier drops. A hit
> point score can't be reduced by Constitution damage or drain to less
> than 1 hit point per Hit Die."
>
> It doesn't say damage, and by the wording one could possibly heal the
> lost HP. I'd never allow it though.
>
> - Justisaur
>

I'm glad all you guys agree with my view, but I need some kind of
official wording addressing this or the DM will use the same ruling the
next time this comes up. He doesn't care what the majority thinks, he
only wants a game consistent with the rules.

The closest to useful so far is the SRD quote from Justisaur. It says
"loses" not "damage", and the SRD for Concentration says DC increases by
1 per point of "damage". I'll try running that argument. Please, if
there is an official post somewhere, link me to it!

Alex

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Alex Johnson wrote:
> Justisaur wrote:
>
>> Alex Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> This came up last night. All the players naturally had one view, the
>>
>>
>> DM
>>
>>> had another. Is there an official ruling on this posted anywhere?
>>>
>>> 10th level Wizard is casting a long 5th level spell (full-round or
>>> longer). He is attacked by creatures with poison. The creatures do
>>
>>
>> 8
>>
>>> hit points of damage and the poison does 6 CON damage. What is the
>>> concentration roll needed to avoid losing the spell?
>>>
>>> In this case the players pretty much agree that only hit points
>>
>>
>> damage
>>
>>> were intended for the Concentration skill: DC 10+damage taken+spell
>>> level being cast. So the DC is in this case 10+8+5, DC 23.
>>>
>>> The DM ruled that since the poison reduced CON by 6 points, the
>>> character lost 30 hit points. He set the DC at 10+38+5, DC 53. Even
>>
>>
>>
>>> though the lost hit points could not be recovered with a cure wounds
>>> spell, he counted them as "damage taken".
>>>
>>> So, please direct me to any official ruling. 3.0 preference, but 3.5
>>
>>
>> if
>>
>>> that's all you can find.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I would run it as not hp damage, it lowers your maximum and current HP.
>> This does not affect concentration (other than the lowered con).
>>
>> However the SRD is somewhat ambiguous in it's wording, "If a
>> character's Constitution score drops, then he loses 1 hit point per
>> Hit Die for every point by which his Constitution modifier drops. A hit
>> point score can't be reduced by Constitution damage or drain to less
>> than 1 hit point per Hit Die."
>>
>> It doesn't say damage, and by the wording one could possibly heal the
>> lost HP. I'd never allow it though.
>>
>> - Justisaur
>>
>
> I'm glad all you guys agree with my view, but I need some kind of
> official wording addressing this or the DM will use the same ruling the
> next time this comes up. He doesn't care what the majority thinks, he
> only wants a game consistent with the rules.
>
> The closest to useful so far is the SRD quote from Justisaur. It says
> "loses" not "damage", and the SRD for Concentration says DC increases by
> 1 per point of "damage". I'll try running that argument. Please, if
> there is an official post somewhere, link me to it!
>
> Alex

Hit points lost via Constitution changes aren't damage. Likewise, hit
points gained via Constitution changes aren't healing. All such changes
do, either up or down, is change your total capacity. Damage dealt from
any source is measured against your current capacity.