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MAC OR PC

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November 11, 2001 8:47:19 AM

Now I know most of you use a PC and haven't touched a MAC like myself, but I'm thinking what is so bad about the Mac ? Its surely faster than any PC out there today and easier to use ? The G4 processor stands head and shoulders above the Athlon XP and P4.

Do you like Macs less becuase they are less 'techy' and generally do what they are supposed to ?

Is there enough software out there for it and is it any good ? Can you upgrade Macs ? What is good about a Mac ?
Are Macs stable ?

Please I dont want any slagging matches ! All I want to know is want advantages a PC or Mac have over each other..

I personally think Mac look quite good (performance, ease of use, features etc.) The Ipod looks great although is really expensive.

<font color=purple>~* K6-2 @ 333MHz *~
I don't need a 'Gigahertz' chip to surf the web just yet ;-)</font color=purple>

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November 11, 2001 10:03:42 AM

Well alot of the people here enjoy tweaking thier comps and adding stuff an building them from the ground up. This is most difficult with a mac because um... you can't by the parts speratly.

Also support for macs suck. many hardware vendors do not have mac drivers and som hard ware couldn't even support mac.

Finally, the g4 processor isn't always faster. This is all very task oriented and depends on what you are doing. The g4 is a risc processor where as athlons and pentiums are cisc. Its like comparing apples and oranges.



Computer: $2000 Internet Access: $40 Registering for forums: Free A good signature: Priceless
November 11, 2001 12:49:10 PM

Macs don't have enough software support! Also, the G4 isn't faster than the Athlon XP and P4, it's actually slower in all but very specific tasks such as Photoshop.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
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November 11, 2001 1:47:58 PM

I've spent a lot of time around PCs and Macs. The main reason why i like PCs better, is that each piece of hardware is manufactured by many rival companies. As long as there's competition involved, the PCs stay relatively cheap and well'performing. With Macs, every component is, if not manufactured by Apple, at least destibuted by it, so Macs are usually pretty expensive, and you don't get a very big choice of hardware. Also they have very limited capabilities when it comes to overclocking and tweaking.

Death to all trolls (Intel trolls, that is. AMD trolls aren't really trolls :) 
November 11, 2001 6:26:42 PM

true, to slap a good pc together would proably cost a 1/3 or 1/2 of what a nicely setup mac would. but, the thing is, apple has no intentions of marketing the powerPC line to consumers. it is for business/content creation/creative work. yes, it does have it flaws like anything else, but they are minimal compared to pc's, which leaves the operator to worry about his work, not messing with his machine. as far as software goes, no you will not see a huge selection of "consumer" software. again, because it's targetted at the business end. any mid to high end business app you will see on the mac as well. right now, the g4's are not faster than the current p4 and xp's. i think it started falling behind when intel was at 1.5ghz and amd at 1.2, i'm not 100% sure about those numbers though. but there are good things to come if you do use macs. apple is said to buy out the PowerPC tech, and they have already shipped g5's to developers that are being clocked at 1.2ghz, 1.4ghz, 1.6ghz. there was also an article i read that said they have released a couple boxes to developers that are being clocked at 2.24ghz, and also too, apple has been working on .10micron since last year. for regular home use, you can't beat a PC. but for me, for work, it's a little different.

well if luck is a lady, it explains why i have no luck :frown:
November 11, 2001 6:43:24 PM

I love it when people tell me the g4 is faster than the athlon or p4 chips. Maybe a couple of years ago, the g4 line had an advantage, however there has been little speed increase since then, I mean they are only up I think 733mhz now. Even though mhz doesn't mean much these days, the latest amd or intel chips still run circles around the g4. So if you only use photoshop and a couple of other altivac-optimized apps, and have lots of money to burn, or absolutely NEED mac OS X, then by all means buy a mac. If you want something economical, fast, well-rounded, with upgrade potential, more programs, then get a pc.

However apples's laptops are pretty damn cool. But pc laptops are still generally cheaper.

AMD = Anger Management Disorder
November 11, 2001 7:49:28 PM

Warning, I haven't looked at a Mac in years so I really don't have any idea what I'm talking about. Back in the day of the Amiga the Motorola based machines were soooooo much better then a pc. The Amiga had a seperate processor for all kinds of things including a mouse coprocessor. I think that Macs are similar. What I'm getting at is that a pc basically sucks. My buddy has a 1.5G machine and sure it is fast but click the mouse while a song is playing and the song will skip. You would think that a 1.5GHz machine could play a song and respond to a single mouse click without getting bogged down but it can't. The old 25MHz Amiga could pass this test but a 1.5GHz pc can't, how sad. I think that Macs are similar and I bet you could click a mouse without screwing up your music. I could easily be wrong since as I said I've not monkeyed with a Mac in years.

You are gonna pay a lot for a Mac and it ain't gonna be as fast with non-native apps but I'm sure that they have advantages. Wish I had one to play with.

Mac users please play an MP3 and then shrink the MP3 player window and report if the song skips.

Remember if you ain't Muslim you ain't Shiite.
November 11, 2001 8:56:23 PM

i dont see how a mouse click would make the song skip?
i got on my rig-2-setup, the 733/256/G3, my video card on the background, connection to the internet and quake3 @1600x1200 32bit, all smoot!(you cant see the vid from the TV screen but its there, working, in the background.

now, to my other point, a year ago i was working for an ISP company (just befour i got recruited to the army), as HelpDesk for client, helping them to connect and stuff, we had to learn installing ADSL/CABLE/DIALUP connection on PC(9x/2k/ME-no XP yet then), and the MACOS(no OSX then yet), i just hated working with them for few resons:
*1 button small mouse!!!(damn this pisses me off!!)
*cartoon silly interface(XP like, or is it mac like?=/)
*crap for multitasking support, if you run a program then run some other program it just hogs the CPU, slows down both of em, and untill both are loaded and resident in memory you wait..
*keyboard is annoying too(small buttons and stuff)

this all concerns the -PowerPC and the G4(cube).

-i dont like macs and if i need something to look good in my office ill rant a model.

<font color=green>
*******
*K.I.S.S*
*(k)eep (I)t (S)imple (S)tupid*
*******
</font color=green>
November 11, 2001 8:56:35 PM

well there is obviously something wrong with your friends system, perhaps a conflict of some sort, becase my old pentium150 system from several years ago could play mp3's and I could use my mouse just fine. Don't dismiss all pc's just because your friend has a broken system.

AMD = Anger Management Disorder
Anonymous
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November 11, 2001 8:59:35 PM

This is addressed to lakedude and has nothing to do with Macs nor PCs. I know that Shiite is a branch of Islam. What do you mean by if you are not a Muslim then you are not Shiite?
November 11, 2001 10:09:06 PM

if u didnt notice it he is doing a play on words.
shiite looks alot like a word with 4 letters, .



OEMs selling "High End"PCs with integrated video will be forced into Q3tournaments using a TNT2M64!
November 11, 2001 11:12:26 PM

Bugalou: the x86 instruction set is cisc - Pentiums and Athlons are not. x86 instructions is decoded to undocumented micro-OP:s for P6/Athlons. A complex instruction like add eax, [esi + ebx * 4]
is broken down to something like:

microLEA A1, m_esi + m_ebx * 4
microLOAD R1, [A1]
microADD m_eax, R1

The exact microOPs being generated and their "names" is not documented as far as I know, but there are some hints here and there of how many microops different x86 instruction concists of. Anyway; the point is that the microarchitecture of todays processor is "RISC", and that the x86 IA is emulated by an on chip emulator called the decoder.

If the microOP instruction set for some processor IS publicly available, or has been reverse engineered, please let me know!

lakedude:
There seems to be some serious problem with your friends sound card driver / mouse driver / OS / media player / codec / chipset driver / IRQ settings / something else.
Song skipping is not normal behaviour of a 1.5GHz system, and I can't remember ever having a system that skips sound when clicking the mouse.

Maybe a mouse coprocessor had its use in the 80:s but it sounds like an overkill to implement it today. =)

/Markus
November 11, 2001 11:20:39 PM

lol mouse coprocessor! Help, my PC takes forever to respond to mouse movements, lol

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
November 12, 2001 12:13:14 AM

Totally agree AMD_Man. Mac really do not perform well in many cases. Also realize that in that video about clock speed doesn't matter they sorta failed to mention a little thing called IPC. AMD processors simply shatter Macs.

If it's working...overclock it!
November 12, 2001 12:31:32 AM

All Shiites are Muslim but not all Muslims are Shiite. My sig is supposed to be funny.

Remember if you ain't Muslim you ain't Shiite.
November 12, 2001 12:50:59 AM

I personally never use my system for audio MP3s but I do use my 1.3GHz machine to play movies and it does the same thing. Anytime you screw around with the mouse the movie skips. I can play a movie, be encoding a new movie and burn a cd all at the same time no problem until you monkey with the mouse.

I can remember the old Amiga and the mouse would always work even when the poor little 25MHz CPU was being worked to death doing a Lightwave render. Sometimes on my system when you are on line or the system is busy the mouse gets all blinky and jittery. This never happens on an Amiga. I've got 3 pcs and I do not think that Macs are worth the extra money but in a lot of ways pcs suck.

Remember if you ain't Muslim you ain't Shiite.
November 12, 2001 1:07:20 AM

I'm curious, as this never happens to me, I would like to know if your mouse is USB or PS/2. Mine is USB, btw.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
November 12, 2001 3:54:07 AM

only usb ive got is my joystick

Why do i feel like the lone sane voice in the mental assylum?
November 12, 2001 10:16:01 AM

Perhaps USB mice use less CPU time?

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
November 13, 2001 11:07:29 PM

I don't really know if the mouse thing is caused by hardware or software. I use a ps2 mouse. Has anybody else noticed this? How about the mouse getting all blinky and skipping around when the CPU is busy? My opinion on this whole subject is based on decades old memories of an old Amiga stomping the [-peep-] out of PCs of the day. I wrote a battle zone style program that ran so slow on a pc that it was worthless but it worked fine on a Amiga. Back then I wondered what made the Amiga so much better and discovered that the Amiga had a vid coproc, audio coproc, and even a mouse coproc. All these coprocs took a huge load off the CPU and allow the little old 25MHz Amiga to run full screen full motion video(with a little help from a DVTV). I had always heard that Apples were similarly better then pcs. I really have no recent information on the subject, just old feelings and the mouse thing.

Remember if you ain't Muslim you ain't Shiite.
November 13, 2001 11:34:09 PM

I don't remember when was the last time I saw a MAC. Anyways. If you are going to play the latest and greatest games then good luck finding it for Mac. You will be able to find applications like MS Office, etc for mac but If I would to buy a mac the only use I can think of would be browsing Internet and doing some word processing, spreadsheet kind of stuff. Nothing much for me.

About the Bugs you mentioned. I think it's just mirical that PC runs with all the different parts from all different mfgr. With a PC you can have a Mother Board from ASUS with VIA Chipset with AMD processor with ATI Graphics card, Micron Memory etc. With all these differnt parts, it's really amazing to me that a PC still runs the way it's suppose to.

KG.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Kemche on 11/13/01 08:37 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
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November 14, 2001 12:02:40 AM

I think for most of the things I do a new Mac is slower than a one year old PIII PC. BTW, I don't DO photochop! Can the MAC do anything besides photochop? J/K! But whenever you see a MAC vs PC comparison, they use Photochop almost exclusively as the test!

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
November 14, 2001 8:51:50 PM

Aren't Macs better for manipulating sound files / recording in real time ?? My cousin works in a top recording studio in London and he says they mainly use Macs to mix and produce songs and music files.

Generally I have also seen on TV Macs are mainly used in the Music industry and often see a Mac laptop / computer hooked up with a electronic keyboard or some mixing deck / instrument.

Surely Macs are better doing realtime than PC's I can't think of any other reason why they would use Macs.

<font color=purple>~* K6-2 @ 333MHz *~
I don't need a 'Gigahertz' chip to surf the web just yet ;-)</font color=purple>
November 14, 2001 10:14:03 PM

Nope, My System with Sound Blaster Augigy spanks a Mac at it. Depends look at linux for pc.

Nice Nvidia and ATi users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
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November 15, 2001 1:13:25 AM

I think people in the music industry often use Macs because that's what they're used to. Generally speaking "arts" departments at colleges use Macs for several reasons:
1) They LOOK more ARTISTIC
2) They are good at Photochop
3) Artist lover snobery. Mac users have a superiority complex. See how the two make an ideal match?

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
November 17, 2001 11:59:05 PM

This mouse thing has got me thinking. I tried to get movies to skip by playing with the mouse and noticed that skipping only happens when the mouse is moved around the position slider or the minus box, box box box and x box in the upper right of the window. You can move the mouse like mad anywhere else and the movie plays fine. If you get over the upper right corner or the slider the movie skips. Resizing the window causes a skip also. This has led me to believe that the hardware involved with mouse positioning is not what causes the skipping problem, at least on my machine. My buddies 1.5G seems to skip when ever you click the mouse anywhere while an mp3 is playing but I've not had the chance to play with it to verify if this is true. My guess is that software is to blame for both our glitches.

Hey, I'm gonna try a usb mouse and see if that changes anything! Ok no difference with usb. I just also noticed that even just moving the mouse over the "hot" areas causes and explaination of what the buttons do to pop up. I guess maybe we don't need mouse coprocs after all :-]

Remember if you ain't Muslim you ain't Shiite.
November 18, 2001 1:31:03 AM

i program in visual C++, play music, browse the web(with several windows open), watch TV on my computer(muted), burn a cd at the same time, and i don't have a problem. I'm only running on a AMD Duron 750mhz! I'd like to see your MAC do that! :) 

i think your mouse clicking story is sad. LOL you need a fuc'kin 25mhz processor to run your MAC mouse with one button! lol it's a bloody mouse! get real! It's not even optical! Sorry but USB optical mice rule over the piece of crap one button mouse shi't.

MAC's suck! you have one choice of OS and one choice of hardware and thats it. PC, you got BeOS, Unix, Linux, OS2, windows. Hardware, i'd be here all day telling you of alll the hardware possibilities.


<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
November 18, 2001 1:32:47 AM

Seriously, I have tried the PS/2 vs. USB thing for both my mouse and keyboard and I haven't noticed any difference between the two. My MS Internet Keyboard Pro and MS TrackBall Optical work equally well in USB and PS/2. I don't know...but I leave them plugged into a USB port because USB is just a newer technology. DEATH TO PS/2!

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
November 18, 2001 1:42:40 AM

if you knew anything about the PC you would know you have a IRQ conflict with your mouse and your soundcard. Thats why it skips.

Do not claim something sucks if you do not know the architecture!

simply either install win2k or use a USB mouse and the skips will go away. I bet any money :)  assuming the USB ports arn't conflicting with anything. But usually the USB controller doesn't care anyway.

Also your soundcard SHOULD be on IRQ 5 and your video should be on IRQ 10. thats the standard. so set that in your BIOS and that should help.

also take some computer classes :) 



<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
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