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Crash or reset?

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November 13, 2001 12:24:12 PM

I have these strange crashes/resets on a machine I just put together:
- ECS K75SA
- Athlon 1.4GHz (not overclocked) + Thermaltake Volcano 5
- GeForce 2 MX 200 64MB
- 128MB DDR
- 40GB HDD, CD, FDD
- Cheesy case with a 300W PSU and a case fan blowing inside
The situation is that often when I exit a program or game (such as RTCW maxed out on details) the system will crash or rather reset - as if you hit the reset button. My suspicion is that it's related to heat - after 30 min of running the machine, the BIOS indicates temp around 125 deg F. I know it's still within the spec but it's defenetely not to cool. On the other hand I thought that when a CPU overheats it just shuts itself down and has to cool off - here it just resets itself. Do you have any idea if it's heat-related or maybe something else?

More about : crash reset

November 13, 2001 12:47:19 PM

Update your Video card driver to version 21.85.....some driver versions for the GeForce series cards had problems
and would reset the computer.......
ALSO....a crappy power supply that doesnt give steady voltage....to many power peeks/spikes would make the computer reset.........sounds liek it can only be either of the two...besides that, I dotn think I could persoanlly help you...but that's what It sounds like...

-MeTaL RoCkEr

My Rig: http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=13597
November 13, 2001 12:52:23 PM

That's odd that it'd crash after 30 minutes. I mean, it's only 51.7°C (use Celsius instead of Fahrenheit). That's way within specs, although most would like to keep it under that. Plus, looking at the official specs at the <A HREF="http://www.thermaltake.com" target="_new">Thermaltake website</A>, it's designed for 1.5GHz and higher.

Anyways, if you don't have any case fans, your other components might be overheating. Since you maxed out your video card, that might be the culprit. I'd have at least two - one intake in the front (usually there's a spot), and one exhaust on the back bezel.

If you don't have any case fans, I believe this would be a good place to start.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=13406" target="_new">My System Rig</A>
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November 13, 2001 1:19:28 PM

Could be now couldnt it ?
I was just saying incase eh didnt have them yet, a lot of people dont.....and from what I've heard the 21.85's are quite stable... :tongue:

-MeTaL RoCkEr

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=13597" target="_new"> <b> My Rig </b> </A>
November 13, 2001 1:23:39 PM

Yeah, it could. I wasn't baggin' on ya...I was just saying that the first thing I should've said was to make sure you have the latest official drivers.

Hook him up with a link :smile:

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=13406" target="_new">My System Rig</A>
November 13, 2001 1:47:25 PM

Good Idea =)

Heres the link..actually links to Download the newest official drivers for your video card...the reason why there is multiple ?? I don't know what Ooperating System your running....

Well now, the latest Driver version is 21.83 =)

<A HREF="http://209.213.197.10/Windows/21.83/Win9x_21.83.exe" target="_new"> Windows 95/98/ME </A>
<A HREF="http://209.213.197.10/Windows/21.83/WinXP_21.83.exe" target="_new"> Windows XP/2000 </A>
<A HREF="http://www.nvidia.com/docs/lo/974/SUPP/WinNT_21.81.exe" target="_new"> Windows NT </A>

Try them out...hope it helps you :wink:

-MeTaL RoCkEr

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=13597" target="_new"> <b> My Rig </b> </A>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
November 13, 2001 3:39:51 PM

rather than the CPU getting hot maybe its the vid card? try getting a bay cooler see if that helps - or run the machine with the case open.

I wanna be a hippie and I wanna get stoned yeah.
November 13, 2001 4:03:26 PM

Just by the topic I know it was a AMD based POS system.

This is soooo typical of owning a AMD, why do people put up with this crap?
a b à CPUs
November 14, 2001 2:20:07 AM

I don't know what's causing your crash, maybe a memroy problem.
But I do know one thing-you really shouldn't admit you bought an MX200 in here! An old TNT2 32MB card could put the hurt to it, and for less money!

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
November 14, 2001 4:21:16 AM

what OS are you running? cuz it looks like i had the same problem as you in my comp and i was running windows 2k. i couldnt figure out what was wrong with my comp so i installed win xp (i know...some of you have "expressed" your lack of affection towards xp...besides, i dont think its that great either...i like win 2k better). my comp works fine now....you might wanna change your OS if you cant figure out what's wrong with it.

I don't claim to know anything about everything, I just tell people what I know.
-PSB
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
November 14, 2001 10:06:21 AM

>The situation is that often when I exit a program or game
>(such as RTCW maxed out on details) the system will crash
>or rather reset -

Be a bit more specific if you can.. is ONLY when you exit a program / game ? Is it ONLY when you exit a 3D or directdraw app ? If so, suspect your videocard/drivers. If its more of a random thing, like rebooting for no good reason while surfing the web.. it could be a lot more things (memory, psu, bas motherboard.. these ECS boards seems to be very very often defective.. although mine works great).

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
November 14, 2001 10:22:21 AM

When you close an app alot of your hardware runs for a few seconds, the swap file is closing out, ram is working, cpu is cleaning loose threads. Random resetting is 99% of the time a PSU issue. Get a new or try a different psu in your system.

Ignore FUGGER, he is a moron.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
a b à CPUs
November 14, 2001 1:23:02 PM

TNT2 cards go for around $35 on Pricewatch, there's an eVGA unit listed for $32 and a bunch of Diamond V770's for $35. I tested a V770 and posted the results on Madonion, using an old Celeron system I scored over 3100, my MX200 scored around 2700, both overclocked to their maxes. I made a post in here a few weeks ago about it. The MX200 was clocked much hihger than the TNT2 for this test and still lost by a significant margin.

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
November 14, 2001 2:06:11 PM

I run XP and have a good opinion about it - smooth instalation, good hardware recognition, stable, superfast boot, etc.....
November 14, 2001 2:08:38 PM

I've got 1 case fan blowing inside. The PSU might be crappy, I admit, but how would I go about installing 1 more case fan in the back?
November 14, 2001 2:14:18 PM

I was already running the 21.83 version (detonator) for XP (OS I'm running). Thanks though, I'll try to reinstall and see what happens. Also are there any tweaks within the nvidia utility to decrease card's performance?
November 14, 2001 2:19:30 PM

It cost $47 with the PSU and fan. I forgot the brand - can check it later. It's a simple MID-Tower with ventilation holes on the sides.
November 14, 2001 2:22:01 PM

I'm running XP and the OS is fine - I've had nothing but positive experience with it (I guess until now hehe) I built 2 other machines with XP on it and everything went fine. 1 of them had exact same configuration except better case and it works fine.
November 14, 2001 2:32:41 PM

Good observation. In the beginning it would happen randomly for example while browsing the web - I would try to stream some MP3/video and the comp would just reset itself. But for last week or so it happens only in the RTCW (not that all I'm doing is religousely fragging hehe - although you have to admit it's a good test for the machine). The comp resets itself when I exit it - I guess when switching from the GL to normal mode....Does it sound like the graphics card? I have the latest detonator XP drivers - ver. 21.83. Somebody suggested using 21.85 but they are for different OS.
November 14, 2001 2:34:59 PM

As a matter of fact I'm going to fix this older machine that had fried PSU. What I'm gonna do is buy a new good 300W PSU and stick it in the crashing comp, taking out the cheesy and putting it in the old PII box. What is your suggestion on reliable PSU?
November 14, 2001 3:27:06 PM

i heard that antec is good for a PSU (i hope i spelled antec right).

I don't claim to know anything about everything, I just tell people what I know.
-PSB
November 14, 2001 3:30:49 PM

i agree...smooth instalation, good hardware recognition..but i just like the way win 2 k works. and besides...the blue taskbar on xp is a little cheesy (so i changed it to silver....ahh...much better).

I don't claim to know anything about everything, I just tell people what I know.
-PSB
November 14, 2001 3:33:37 PM

I like the Antec 400W PSU, good price and good specs. Enermax I think is one of the high end PSU suppliers, so a 300W or 350W from them would be good too, but could cost even more. However, some of those have dual exhaust fans too, so that may cool your system down a bit more.

Chesnuts roasting on an open CPU
Bill Gates nipping at your wallet
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
November 14, 2001 3:57:18 PM

Go for the Rage Fury Maxx 64 mb card. Suitable for most getting on a bit now though.

You are responsible for any damage the info in your post may cause to my system.
November 14, 2001 4:58:31 PM

Actually there is (doh). But how do you attach this case fan to it? You drill holes for some screws? And also is there any particular case fan you would suggest?
November 14, 2001 7:28:42 PM

Looking for it at Pricewatch.com, the lowest at $91 is kinda high.
Is there any way you can help me get the best settings with my current card? I'm not sure if the defaults are best (it probably isn't)...

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=13406" target="_new">My System Rig</A>
a b à CPUs
November 15, 2001 1:48:31 AM

The Radeon SDR will probably do about halfway between the TNT2 and the Radeon DDR in performance. Don't believe anything good someone has to say about the rage fury max, it's way outdated, just like the TNT2. It's sad that an outdated TNT2 can rip a hole in the MX200. In fact TNT2's did so well that nVidia replaced them with the slower M64 version simply because they made the MX200 look bad.

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
November 15, 2001 2:29:28 AM

agree...smooth instalation, good hardware recognition..but i just like the way win 2 k works. and besides...the blue taskbar on xp is a little cheesy (so i changed it to silver....ahh...much better).

Have you considered enabling windows classic mode for the start menu and the desktop theme? This will get you closer to win2k style.
a b à CPUs
November 15, 2001 2:47:02 AM

No, the V770 outperforms the MX200 by a wide margin! The major bottleneck of all GeForce2 cards is memory. The MX's most significant disadvanted to the GTS was it's SDR memory. But the MX200 only has HALF the memory bandwidth of the MX! In fact, even the TNT2 had a 128-bit path! And to top that off, both the TNT2 and the MX200 have 6ns memory, but the TNT2 has TWICE the bandwidth! On an old Celeron system I scored over 3100 with the TNT2 and only 2700 with the MX200, and that was with the MX200 at max overclock!
The TNT2 performed so well that nVidia had to cut it from it's product line. Why? They couldn't have an old card on the market that outperformed a new one. Notice they still carry the cut down "M64" version of the TNT2? That's got the same memory reductions as the MX200, so it can't outperform it. nVidia raped a whole bunch of customers on "upgrades" from TNT2 to MX200 cards, with the pretense of better performance, which is false. The MX200 just plain sucks, there's no excuse for it. It cost as much to produce an MX200 as an MX400, but the MX400 is about twice as fast and cost about 50% more. So I guess the only reason for the MX200 is to boost the price of the MX400.

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
a b à CPUs
November 15, 2001 3:19:42 AM

The Radeon SDR should do much better than the MX200 or even the TNT2. I believe I got around 5400 with my Radeon DDR on that system, the SDR should only be around (guessing) 20% slower than the SDR.

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
a b à CPUs
November 15, 2001 3:19:55 AM

The Radeon SDR should do much better than the MX200 or even the TNT2. I believe I got around 5400 with my Radeon DDR on that system, the SDR should only be around (guessing) 20% slower than the DDR.

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
a b à CPUs
November 15, 2001 5:26:25 AM

Everybody runs at default settings for comparisons, that way the comparisons are accurate.

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
November 15, 2001 7:00:53 AM

Depressing Results:
AGP Fast Write Enabled = 2546
AGP Fast Write Disabled = 2532

Man oh man! That means my 32MB SDR is 53% slower than a DDR card. Argh...

What do you suggest?

Running in Win2K affects this somewhat, right? What OS did you do your benchmark in?

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=13406" target="_new">My System Rig</A>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
November 15, 2001 7:32:34 AM

Are there 3D Mark 2001 results ? If so.. thats not too bad for an SDR card, is it ?

To give you an idea, I have a geforce MX DDR.. you read it right, an MX with DDR.. Creative crap card with halved memory path (64 bit) but DDR-ed RAM. In theory this card should perform on par with a MX/MX400 but due to the high latency, and lower clocked memory its damn close to an MX200. I barely score over 2200 in 3DMark2001 with an Athlon 1400 on a SiS 735 DDR board. go figure.

Just to say that going from SDR to DDR is not likely to double anything, all else being equal.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
November 15, 2001 7:38:56 AM

>would try to stream some MP3/video and the comp would just
>reset itself

R you sure about the MP3 thing.. I mean, SOUND ? ring a bell ? If its not the video card, it could just as well be an audio glitch, no ? Try disabling the sound, see if it helps..

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
November 15, 2001 8:20:05 AM

I'm not sure. I was comparing to Crashman's results. He had a Radeon DDR card (32 or 64...I don't know), and he got 5400 in 3DMark2001. That's why I was saying instead of the 20% he was predicting, it turned out to be 53% lower than him.

A7V133
850 Athlon
Radeon 32MB SDR

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=13406" target="_new">My System Rig</A>
a b à CPUs
November 15, 2001 3:21:55 PM

My motherboards do not support fastwrites, but I DID have my card overclocked. Anything goes when trying to make your sytems faster as long as your running the same benchmark (which means the default settings for the bench). What kind of processor do you have?

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
November 15, 2001 11:53:48 PM

i have thought about switching the taskbar to the classic look but i like the way the new taskbarlooks...i just dont like the blue color (not that i dont like the color blue which, ironically, is my favorite color).

I don't claim to know anything about everything, I just tell people what I know.
-PSB
a b à CPUs
November 16, 2001 1:49:10 AM

I suggenst you try overclocking the card. All my scores are on overclocked cards. You should be able to get around 4000 I think.

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
November 16, 2001 5:17:33 AM

Alright, Crash...I'll try that.

Would you mind checkin' out a thread I'm about to open up in the Graphics Card forum? I don't wanna add to this one anymore, since it has nothing to do with the subject indicated. :smile:

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=13406" target="_new">My System Rig</A>
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