Intel v AMD performance/price issue

Conqueror · Nov 14, 2001

Remember that <A HREF="http://commerce.euro.dell.com/dellstore/config/frameset.asp?s=uktra&l=en&m=gbp&c=644&n=2649&cu=uktra&v=n&cc=&ogn=&kcd=&ad=&mc=&rs=&cuid=&cg=&pch=1&pn=-1&demo=&gc=&sbc=ukdhsdimen&co=&b=27349" target="_new">PC from Dell</A>that I was talking about in my other thread? This was it's spec:

1.8 GHz Pentium 4 /256 cache
mini Tower chassis
384 Mb NON-ECC RDRAM 2(64+128)
100Gb HD (7200rpm)
19" Triniton Flat Screen Monitor,
16x DVD Drive & Software Decoding
16x IDE CD-RW Internal
Turtle Beach Santa Cruz Sound Card
Harmon Kardon 695 speakers
64MB nVidia GeFore3 Ti 200 Card
MS Windows XP
(plus other standard things)
3 years warranty
Total Price = £1300 (inc. VAT and delivery)

Well I went around to every PC store that I could find around my area here in United Kingdom, and asked them if they could beat that price. I also telephoned companies like Evesham.com and asked them if they could beat that spec and price.

The result was that everyone who looked at the spec from Dell was SHOCKED! They made remarks like "the price is amzing", "we can't beat that" etc.

The nearest price for a Pentium 4 they came to was £1500 (compared to £1300 for the PC from Dell).

I have read a lot of reviews for Evesham.com computers. They always get high marks for their excellent spec and very low prices. They gave me the following spec: <A HREF="http://www.evesham.com/document.asp?type=pc_ml&mr_id=8&mt_id=1" target="_new">Click here</A>, at the bottom)

Athlon XP 1.53Ghz (1800+)
266Mhz cache
512 DDRAM
100Gb HD
64 Mb GeForce 3 Ti500
19" Flat screen monitor
16x DVD
16x CD-RW
Sound Blaster Live 5.12
3 years warranty

And guess what the price was?? £1643 (inc VAT & del) !!!!

What happened here?? I thought AMD systems were supposed to be cheaper than Intel??!!! That is what I have been reading in magazines, websites and even you guys keep going on about how cheap AMDs are compared to Intel. But when I asked for a SIMILAR spec to the Dell PC, the price for AMD became even more expensive.

I think I'm going to go ahead and buy the Dell computer. It's cheap and got excellent spec. Plus, it's "intel inside" !!!

Mankind must put an end to War,
or War will put an end to mankind!

FatBurger · Nov 14, 2001

A comparable performance AMD system you build yourself will be cheaper, but when you start looking at OEMs, it's open season. They can charge you whatever they want.

Quarter Pounder Inside

AMD_Man · Nov 14, 2001

Anyone on these forums will tell you that going with OEMs is the worst thing you can do and they're usually slower than self-built PCs because they come with inferior motherboards.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the ULTIMATE PC processor

LoveGuRu · Nov 14, 2001

you cant just compare two systems with really dif components, such as TI200(P4), TI500(XP).
and other components and brands of each component.
i dont see your point.

btw they cant just give you a good price, there has to be a reson to it, they are saving money on something, i leave it to you to find what exactly is it that they are cutting down on.
remember they are bot making those hardware pieces so they dont have control over the OEM price of it so there is something missing here, might be some DSL(or such) pacage?


*******
*K.I.S.S*
*(k)eep (I)t (S)imple (S)tupid*
*******

Yahiko81 · Nov 14, 2001

Why don't you have someone build you a system? I'm assuming you are in the UK. I know Techie2001, Wiggy5, and Calv all live in the UK. I'm sure one of them would be more than happy to help you.

Nice Lizards crunch Trolls cookies.......

Yummy!!

Conqueror · Nov 14, 2001

Yes, some components are difference in each case, but still, look at the difference in price. Athlon is about £344 more expensive. Is that justifiable? I thought Athlons were supposed to be cheaper together with good components.

I don't know why there's a price cut on the Dell system. Dell always has special offer's every month. And this was the best offer I have seen.

I did enquire about the makes of the components. This is what they told me:

The memory is consists of 2 x (64 +128) = 384. In other words it uses up four slots. So if I want to upgrade the memory, I would have to throw away the old memory first! (I don't think I would need upgrading the mem and if I did it would be after years, by then I would sell my old mem and buy new one).

The motherboard they told me was from intel. I asked for the make and the sales person mentioned "A45". I don't know what that meant. Can anyone help? It is socket 478 compatible though.

The DVD is Samsung. The CDRW is LG.

The thing is, I don't want to build my own system yet. I want to buy an OEM first, and then use this as a basic building block for years to come, when I will definetly be building and upgrading from it.

What do you think I should do? Buy the Dell PC or look for a better deal? Anyone seen a better OEM deal?

Mankind must put an end to War,
or War will put an end to mankind!

Yahiko81 · Nov 14, 2001

I can understand why you want to go OEM. You want a company to back your warranty if any problems should arise. OEM systems are not good building blocks. They are usually proprietary (sp?). I would suggest looking into a ma and pa shop in the area that sells white boxes. Get a price quote and a warranty from them. Give us the system stats and price quote. We'll tell you the real price and then you see if you can get them down any on the price. Trust me. OEM systems are bad.

Nice Lizards crunch Trolls cookies.......

Yummy!!

FatBurger · Nov 14, 2001

Dell does not use proprietary parts like most OEMs. Actually, that is becoming less common. The only proprietary parts are the BIOS and some small things like the way the LEDs and switches connect to the MB.

BTW, the XP system will easily be faster than the P4 (except for a few apps, of course).

Quarter Pounder Inside

Yahiko81 · Nov 14, 2001

Ok. But I know that Compaq (shudder) is highly proprietary. I wasn't sure how dell was. I don't like dell's cases though. Very chinsy. The metal is very flimsy. Also with OEM systems you have to reseat everything. They throw those systems together so quick and only test 1 out of 10. I don't like those odds. I don't trust OEM's. You are better off finding a computer shop in your local town. You'll probably get a better deal and they might even be nice enough to come out and set it up for you for free.

Nice Lizards crunch Trolls cookies.......

Yummy!!

Guest · Nov 14, 2001

ok I'm new here (shut up then i hear you say) I am not an Intel or AMD man, but I am to am looking to buy a new pc rather than build.

I cant see how you can compare the above systems though, and I don't think it's the choice of platform makes the difference. If you consider the price difference between the graphics card alone! I have played with all the 'design your pc online' toys and know how little changes here and there can bump up the price.

phew long for a first post eh, in the end you have to go with what you're happy with.

'i'm your little glowing friend'

Yahiko81 · Nov 14, 2001

All I know is that most OEM's have a 400% mark up and most whitebox resellers have a 2~300% mark up. OEM's aren't anything special. I would much rather build my own system. But I understand someone wanting someone else to do it. If you do go with an OEM, make sure and get an ONSITE warranty. If not they'll try and screw you with shipping charges.

Nice Lizards crunch Trolls cookies.......

Yummy!!

DSutcliffe · Nov 14, 2001

There's your problem, the Dell system uses the 845 chipset and pc-133 ram.

The performance for the machine will be on par with an Athlon 1.2ghz with a geforce2 ti200

Plus I think the sound is crap on the Dell, better off with the Live! or Audigy.

Anyways, price out a T-Bird 1.2 with DDR on kt266a mobo, geforce ti200 and should be less than the Dell price.

Good luck.

Check out my rig:
<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=3737" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=3737</A>

LoveGuRu · Nov 14, 2001

buy all the components from a single shop, at the least you wont find out in couple of months you got screwd on some small part that f%&ed your rig.
assamble it or get some one you know to.
again, comparing prices like you did is not a way to go, you should get same parts from same store or compare each component individually, then see where is the price cut.
i dont see how you get such a "great deal" with the P4, it has will perform much worse then the XP1800+PR(e.g-TI200/TI500) and the superiority of the XP in most benches.
btw 386MB VS 512?specially when its 64x2+128 modules?dont tell me you dont see why the price is so high..


*******
*K.I.S.S*
*(k)eep (I)t (S)imple (S)tupid*
*******

FatBurger · Nov 14, 2001

He said it has RDRAM, but "A45" is very similar to "845". I'd double check that, Conqueror.

Quarter Pounder Inside

Conqueror · Nov 14, 2001

There's your problem, the Dell system uses the 845 chipset and pc-133 ram.

Why would it use RDRAM if it was 845 chipset?

Plus I think the sound is crap on the Dell, better off with the Live! or Audigy.

Have you actually heard sound from Turtle beach cruz sound card/Harmon Kardon speakers? I argued for along time with the sales person that SoundBlaster Live was better than Turtle beach Cruz sound card, and he kept telling me that I'm wrong, and that it was better than soundblaster live! Also notice that it costs about £50 more than soundblaster, so it has to be better.

Mankind must put an end to War,
or War will put an end to mankind!

Guest · Nov 14, 2001

Just been to Dell website, it's RDRAM alright, I don't like the website though (sorry tangent!).

'i'm your little glowing friend'

Guest · Nov 14, 2001

The Salesman is bound to say it's better, he's selling it, and who says expensive is always better, if so why is there any argument about Pentium/Athlon.

'i'm your little glowing friend'

zengeos · Nov 14, 2001

I looked a thte specs for the PC he mentions and nowhere did it say it used RDRam. In fact, it just said RAM. Perhaps he spoke with a Dell rep who said it was RDRam. However, The P4 motherboards all have names like D845 or D850 so it sounds like an 845 board, which indeed would have SDRam. That gives that 1.8ghz P4 performance about equivalent to a P4 1.5 or 1.6 with RDRam, or similar to a 1.1 or 1.2ghz P3. Certainly not lightning fast.

Other areas of cost cutting are the low end GeForce3 Ti200 card, which is significantly less expensive than the Ti500. Finally, the sound card is also less expensive, though not really all that much

When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!

Conqueror · Nov 14, 2001

He said it has RDRAM, but "A45" is very similar to "845". I'd double check that, Conqueror.

Yeah, i think you're right. Sales person must have meant 845, but I didn't get that because I asked her the make of the mobo and not the chipset.

And yes, the two systems have different memories. The Pentium4 has RDRAM, whereas the Athlon has DDRAM. So you should expect Pentium to be more expensive.

Also, true that they have a different graphics card, but even if the difference was £100, the Athlon still doesn't compare with the Pentium.

I can understand why you want to go OEM. You want a company to back your warranty if any problems should arise.

No, not really. I just don't feel ready to build my own system yet. Also I just don't want to spend so much time and effort in it. Although, I must admit, it should be fun, and I love doing this sort of thing. I just was a basic system, and I'll work my way up from there.

Mankind must put an end to War,
or War will put an end to mankind!

Guest · Nov 14, 2001

just as a little aside, i know it's silly but on the webpage if you add all the extras (minus printers and digital cameras) and cover options it comes to £4770.50 whew but what a spec! if you go for all the options i'll chuck in the 50p

'i'm your little glowing friend'

FatBurger · Nov 14, 2001

Also notice that it costs about £50 more than soundblaster, so it has to be better.

Please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please
tell me you're not serious.

Quarter Pounder Inside

Conqueror · Nov 14, 2001

Yeah, I've tried "building" the spec I quoted above on Dell's website from scratch, and it came to over £2,500 !!! But I'm getting all that for £1300!

Mankind must put an end to War,
or War will put an end to mankind!

Guest · Nov 14, 2001

just as a little aside, i know it's silly but on the webpage if you add all the extras (minus printers and digital cameras) and cover options it comes to £4770.50 whew but what a spec! if you go for all the options i'll chuck in the 50p

'i'm your little glowing friend'

Conqueror · Nov 14, 2001

lol @ FatBurger !

I was not serious! But it makes you think if you haven't tried the thing, doesn't it?

Mankind must put an end to War,
or War will put an end to mankind!

Guest · Nov 14, 2001

sorry repeating myself

'i'm your little glowing friend'

Intel v AMD performance/price issue

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