Shifters and Warforged in regular campaigns

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Looking through Eberron last night, I had an opportunity to realize that
the Warforged aren't really as lame as I had originally thought. ALso
noticed the Shifters and Changelings.

Does anyone think these races are well-balanced in a normal D&D
campaign? For example, if an isolated Artificer should through
tinkering figure a way to craft a Warforged?

- Ron ^*^
59 answers Last reply
More about shifters warforged regular campaigns
  1. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Werebat" <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote in message
    news:4uoce.1754$Hm.773@lakeread03...
    >
    >
    > Looking through Eberron last night, I had an opportunity to realize
    > that the Warforged aren't really as lame as I had originally
    > thought. ALso noticed the Shifters and Changelings.
    >
    > Does anyone think these races are well-balanced in a normal D&D
    > campaign? For example, if an isolated Artificer should through
    > tinkering figure a way to craft a Warforged?
    >
    > - Ron ^*^

    I would allow that in my world. Of course creating a Warforged would
    be a long
    and involved process. Are their actual rules for creating new
    Warforged in the
    Eberron setting? I don't have the book, although I've been tempted to
    get it.

    I think I'd alter the rules for creating them a bit in my setting. I
    do have a God
    known as the great tinker. Most of his earthly bound agents are
    "Alive" Golems
    so Warforged aren't a huge step for me.

    Changelings might also be introduced due to a strong back-story
    involving
    dopplegangers and an illithid invasion. Dopplegangers being the first
    force
    sent to gauge the power of the Kingdoms before the Flayers attempt
    a hostile takeover.

    Shifters (those are the ones related to lycanthropes right?) are a
    slightly
    different story. There are few lycanthropes left in my world and so
    shifters
    might be a less common race if I ever allowed them in my game.
  2. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Werebat wrote:

    >
    >
    > Looking through Eberron last night, I had an opportunity to realize
    > that the Warforged aren't really as lame as I had originally thought.
    > ALso noticed the Shifters and Changelings.
    >
    > Does anyone think these races are well-balanced in a normal D&D
    > campaign? For example, if an isolated Artificer should through
    > tinkering figure a way to craft a Warforged?
    >
    > - Ron ^*^
    >
    >
    >
    The Ironborn from the Book Of Righteous Might would fit the "lone
    Artificer" model better I think.

    But to answer your question: I think the Warforged would work out
    fine in a standard D&D setting. They are a tad limited in their class
    selection. But they excel as Fighters. Nearly the perfect troops really.
    No need for food, water, even air. They never tire which means even with
    the Adamantium option they can just Run everywhere. Limited but useful.

    --
    Tetsubo
    My page: http://home.comcast.net/~tetsubo/
    --------------------------------------
    If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
    -- Anatole France
  3. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Tetsubo" <tetsubo@comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:os2dnXJ_XqIFhe_fRVn-sg@comcast.com...
    > Werebat wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> Looking through Eberron last night, I had an opportunity to realize
    >> that the Warforged aren't really as lame as I had originally
    >> thought. ALso noticed the Shifters and Changelings.
    >>
    >> Does anyone think these races are well-balanced in a normal D&D
    >> campaign? For example, if an isolated Artificer should through
    >> tinkering figure a way to craft a Warforged?
    >>
    >> - Ron ^*^
    >>
    >>
    >>
    > The Ironborn from the Book Of Righteous Might would fit the "lone
    > Artificer" model better I think.
    >
    > But to answer your question: I think the Warforged would work out
    > fine in a standard D&D setting. They are a tad limited in their
    > class selection. But they excel as Fighters. Nearly the perfect
    > troops really. No need for food, water, even air. They never tire
    > which means even with the Adamantium option they can just Run
    > everywhere. Limited but useful.
    >
    > --
    > Tetsubo
    > My page:
    > http://home.comcast.net/~tetsubo/ --------------------------------------
    > If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish
    > thing.
    > -- Anatole France

    Does standard healing magic affect them at all? Or do they need the
    repair spells
    that have appeared in recent materials. I'm sure they were just
    updated in those
    most current sources because I swear I saw them before.

    If standard healing affected them as well that might increase their
    value for a standard party.
    Who wouldn't want a fighter that could be awake 24/7 on guard duty. A
    metal warrior
    who may or may not have some form of protection from crits. I really
    wish I knew more
    about Warforged. I think I gotta pick up the book tonight since I have
    time to read it
    this weekend. The adamantium option allows for damage reduction, I
    would assume.

    Can a Warforged be a barbarian or is he limited because of physical
    makeup?
    You know, I'm asking a bunch of questions, but I could get all the
    answers as
    soon as I pick up the book. Thanks in advance for taking any of your
    time to
    answer any of my questions.
  4. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    In article <YZoce.221$RV5.152@lakeread08>,
    Decaying Atheist <harker@coxdot.net> wrote:
    >
    >Does standard healing magic affect them at all? Or do they need the
    >repair spells that have appeared in recent materials. I'm sure they
    >were just updated in those most current sources because I swear I saw
    >them before.

    They're catagorized as "Living Constructs" and can be targetted by
    spells that affect living critters as well as constructs, so healing
    magic works fine. Incidentally, they don't heal naturally.

    >If standard healing affected them as well that might increase their
    >value for a standard party. Who wouldn't want a fighter that could
    >be awake 24/7 on guard duty. A metal warrior who may or may not have
    >some form of protection from crits. I really wish I knew more about
    >Warforged. I think I gotta pick up the book tonight since I have time
    >to read it this weekend. The adamantium option allows for damage
    >reduction, I would assume.

    They don't need to sleep but do need 8 hours rest if they're wizards.
    They get Light Fortification, though generally are subject to crits,
    stunning, and all that, unlike normal constructs. They get +2 armor
    bonus (which doesn't stack with armor but I suppose they could wear
    full plate and ignore the +2 base, but they can't wear magic armor or
    magic robes). At 1st level only they can take the Adamantine Body
    feat, which ups the +2 to a +8 and gives 'em DR2/adamantine but cuts
    their speed down to 20...still, pretty solid. They can also get
    themselves enchanted if they want.

    >Can a Warforged be a barbarian or is he limited because of physical
    >makeup?

    Sure. No restrictions on class.

    >You know, I'm asking a bunch of questions, but I could get all the
    >answers as soon as I pick up the book. Thanks in advance for taking
    >any of your time to answer any of my questions.

    No prob...more fun than working anyway. ;)

    seann
  5. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Seann M. Ives" <abate@sidehack.sat.gweep.net> wrote in message
    news:abate.1114784696@sidehack.sat.gweep.net...
    > In article <YZoce.221$RV5.152@lakeread08>,
    > Decaying Atheist <harker@coxdot.net> wrote:
    >>
    >>Does standard healing magic affect them at all? Or do they need the
    >>repair spells that have appeared in recent materials. I'm sure they
    >>were just updated in those most current sources because I swear I saw
    >>them before.
    >
    > They're catagorized as "Living Constructs" and can be targetted by
    > spells that affect living critters as well as constructs, so healing
    > magic works fine.

    I thought it only had 50% effect.

    --
    ^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

    It matters not how strait the gate,
    How charged with punishment the scroll,
    I am the Master of my fate:
    I am the Captain of my soul.

    from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
  6. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Decaying Atheist wrote:
    > "Werebat" <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote in message
    > news:4uoce.1754$Hm.773@lakeread03...

    > Shifters (those are the ones related to lycanthropes right?) are a
    > slightly
    > different story. There are few lycanthropes left in my world and so
    > shifters
    > might be a less common race if I ever allowed them in my game.

    Actually, Eberron is similar -- there are almost no lycanthropes -- and
    the shifters are all that is left of their kind. A few communities with
    trace amounts of lycanthropic blood.

    So, they might fit perfectly into your world.

    - Ron ^*^
  7. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Tetsubo wrote:

    > Werebat wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> Looking through Eberron last night, I had an opportunity to realize
    >> that the Warforged aren't really as lame as I had originally thought.
    >> ALso noticed the Shifters and Changelings.
    >>
    >> Does anyone think these races are well-balanced in a normal D&D
    >> campaign? For example, if an isolated Artificer should through
    >> tinkering figure a way to craft a Warforged?
    >>
    >> - Ron ^*^
    >>
    >>
    >>
    > The Ironborn from the Book Of Righteous Might would fit the "lone
    > Artificer" model better I think.

    Hm, tell me more about these. I run a "different" kind of game, and I
    could see using warforged as cyborgs and something else as
    robots/androids... Are Ironborn more Construct than Living Construct?

    - Ron ^*^
  8. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Seann M. Ives" <abate@sidehack.sat.gweep.net> wrote in message
    news:abate.1114784696@sidehack.sat.gweep.net...
    > In article <YZoce.221$RV5.152@lakeread08>,
    > Decaying Atheist <harker@coxdot.net> wrote:
    >>
    >>Does standard healing magic affect them at all? Or do they need the
    >>repair spells that have appeared in recent materials. I'm sure they
    >>were just updated in those most current sources because I swear I
    >>saw
    >>them before.
    >
    > They're catagorized as "Living Constructs" and can be targetted by
    > spells that affect living critters as well as constructs, so healing
    > magic works fine. Incidentally, they don't heal naturally.

    So they get a little of each, some humanoid traits and some construct
    traits.
    One last question, are they destroyed at 0 hp or simply out of
    commission
    and subject to slow death by bleeding etc.

    > They don't need to sleep but do need 8 hours rest if they're
    > wizards.

    Yeah, I would expect that, kind of balances out the wizard class. If
    Warforged
    didn't need to rest to regain spell slots, and prepare etc, I think
    we'd see
    a whole mess of Warforged wizards.

    > They get Light Fortification, though generally are subject to crits,
    > stunning, and all that, unlike normal constructs.

    So still a 25% non-crit rate is better then no crit missing.

    They can also get
    > themselves enchanted if they want.

    So basically they can get any sort of armor enchantment unless it
    contridicts
    something about their basic make up. Wow, couldn't get the book today
    I checked four stores and none of them had it. I went to my local
    gaming shop
    and ordered a copy. About a weeks wait on it though.

    >>Can a Warforged be a barbarian or is he limited because of physical
    >>makeup?
    >
    > Sure. No restrictions on class.

    Warforged Barbarian/Rogues man I wonder how their construct bodies
    might limit the rogue abilities but wow think of the combination
    there.
    I guess Barb/rogue is one of my favorite builds ever. Although
    Dwarven Defender/Paladin is pretty good too.

    > seann

    Thanks for the heads up.
  9. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Malachias Invictus" <capt_malachias@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:48idnano3P9Xze_fRVn-ow@comcast.com...
    >
    > "Seann M. Ives" <abate@sidehack.sat.gweep.net> wrote in message
    > news:abate.1114784696@sidehack.sat.gweep.net...
    >> In article <YZoce.221$RV5.152@lakeread08>,
    >> Decaying Atheist <harker@coxdot.net> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>Does standard healing magic affect them at all? Or do they need the
    >>>repair spells that have appeared in recent materials. I'm sure they
    >>>were just updated in those most current sources because I swear I
    >>>saw
    >>>them before.
    >>
    >> They're catagorized as "Living Constructs" and can be targetted by
    >> spells that affect living critters as well as constructs, so
    >> healing
    >> magic works fine.
    >
    > I thought it only had 50% effect.

    So even at 50% effective both a party wizard and a cleric could heal
    the Warforged.
    Assuming the wizard had repair spells and the cleric used healing
    magic on the
    construct.

    Double the healing power for your front line fighter. A fighter with
    built in DR if the right
    feat is taken. Yes armor limitations might make for a slightly worse
    off fighter but
    I think the light fort can help with that some. Yes it isn't the same
    as not getting hit at all
    but avoiding massive hits 25% of the time scores major points in the
    fighter game.
  10. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Decaying Atheist" <harker@coxdot.net> wrote in message
    news:8txce.3760$RV5.3515@lakeread08...
    >
    > "Malachias Invictus" <capt_malachias@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:48idnano3P9Xze_fRVn-ow@comcast.com...
    >>
    >> "Seann M. Ives" <abate@sidehack.sat.gweep.net> wrote in message
    >> news:abate.1114784696@sidehack.sat.gweep.net...
    >>> In article <YZoce.221$RV5.152@lakeread08>,
    >>> Decaying Atheist <harker@coxdot.net> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>Does standard healing magic affect them at all? Or do they need the
    >>>>repair spells that have appeared in recent materials. I'm sure they
    >>>>were just updated in those most current sources because I swear I saw
    >>>>them before.
    >>>
    >>> They're catagorized as "Living Constructs" and can be targetted by
    >>> spells that affect living critters as well as constructs, so healing
    >>> magic works fine.
    >>
    >> I thought it only had 50% effect.
    >
    > So even at 50% effective both a party wizard and a cleric could heal the
    > Warforged.
    > Assuming the wizard had repair spells and the cleric used healing magic on
    > the
    > construct.

    Yes, assuming the Wizard has the spells to spare and wants to be a band-aid.

    > Double the healing power for your front line fighter.

    Not really. You get 150% of the healing for twice the number of spells.
    Hardly optimal.

    --
    ^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

    It matters not how strait the gate,
    How charged with punishment the scroll,
    I am the Master of my fate:
    I am the Captain of my soul.

    from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
  11. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    In article <48idnano3P9Xze_fRVn-ow@comcast.com>,
    Malachias Invictus <capt_malachias@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >> They're catagorized as "Living Constructs" and can be targetted by
    >> spells that affect living critters as well as constructs, so healing
    >> magic works fine.
    >
    >I thought it only had 50% effect.

    You are correct. That'll teach me to post before I finish my coffee.

    seann
  12. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Werebat" <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote in message
    news:iswce.8207$Hm.1190@lakeread03...
    >
    >
    > Decaying Atheist wrote:
    >> "Werebat" <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote in message
    >> news:4uoce.1754$Hm.773@lakeread03...
    >
    >> Shifters (those are the ones related to lycanthropes right?) are a
    >> slightly
    >> different story. There are few lycanthropes left in my world and so
    >> shifters
    >> might be a less common race if I ever allowed them in my game.
    >
    > Actually, Eberron is similar -- there are almost no lycanthropes --
    > and the shifters are all that is left of their kind. A few
    > communities with trace amounts of lycanthropic blood.
    >
    > So, they might fit perfectly into your world.
    >
    > - Ron ^*^

    Man I wish my local stores had the books in stock :(
  13. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Seann M. Ives wrote:
    > In article <YZoce.221$RV5.152@lakeread08>,
    > Decaying Atheist <harker@coxdot.net> wrote:
    >>
    >> Does standard healing magic affect them at all? Or do they need the
    >> repair spells that have appeared in recent materials. I'm sure they
    >> were just updated in those most current sources because I swear I saw
    >> them before.
    >
    > They're catagorized as "Living Constructs" and can be targetted by
    > spells that affect living critters as well as constructs, so healing
    > magic works fine. Incidentally, they don't heal naturally.

    Healing magic is only 50% effective on them. However, a warforged who takes
    an appropriate Craft skill, such as Armoursmithing, can repair itself over
    an 8-hour period. The amount of HP repaired equal the craft check result
    minus 15 (minimum 0). And warforged can heal non-lethal damage and ability
    damage normally.

    >> If standard healing affected them as well that might increase their
    >> value for a standard party. Who wouldn't want a fighter that could
    >> be awake 24/7 on guard duty. A metal warrior who may or may not have
    >> some form of protection from crits. I really wish I knew more about
    >> Warforged. I think I gotta pick up the book tonight since I have time
    >> to read it this weekend. The adamantium option allows for damage
    >> reduction, I would assume.
    >
    > They don't need to sleep but do need 8 hours rest if they're wizards.
    > They get Light Fortification, though generally are subject to crits,
    > stunning, and all that, unlike normal constructs. They get +2 armor
    > bonus (which doesn't stack with armor but I suppose they could wear
    > full plate and ignore the +2 base, but they can't wear magic armor or
    > magic robes).

    They also have 5% Arcane Spell Failure, which can cut down their usefulness
    as wizards or sorcerers.

    > At 1st level only they can take the Adamantine Body
    > feat, which ups the +2 to a +8 and gives 'em DR2/adamantine but cuts
    > their speed down to 20...still, pretty solid. They can also get
    > themselves enchanted if they want.

    There's also Mithral Body, which gives them the equivalent of mithral
    breastplate, leaving their speed intact. New body-feats are given in Races
    of Eberron.

    >> Can a Warforged be a barbarian or is he limited because of physical
    >> makeup?
    >
    > Sure. No restrictions on class.

    And it makes for a good combo, since a warforged won't suffer fatigue
    effects after raging.

    --
    Mark.
  14. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Mark Blunden" <m.blundenATntlworld.com@address.invalid> wrote in
    message news:3df5rrF6oju9sU1@individual.net...
    > Seann M. Ives wrote:
    >> In article <YZoce.221$RV5.152@lakeread08>,
    >> Decaying Atheist <harker@coxdot.net> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Does standard healing magic affect them at all? Or do they need
    >>> the
    >>> repair spells that have appeared in recent materials. I'm sure
    >>> they
    >>> were just updated in those most current sources because I swear I
    >>> saw
    >>> them before.
    >>
    >> They're catagorized as "Living Constructs" and can be targetted by
    >> spells that affect living critters as well as constructs, so
    >> healing
    >> magic works fine. Incidentally, they don't heal naturally.
    >
    > Healing magic is only 50% effective on them. However, a warforged
    > who takes
    > an appropriate Craft skill, such as Armoursmithing, can repair
    > itself over
    > an 8-hour period. The amount of HP repaired equal the craft check
    > result
    > minus 15 (minimum 0). And warforged can heal non-lethal damage and
    > ability
    > damage normally.

    Do they have "Blood," like a alchemical mix, or motor oil that helps
    power them.
    So they can still heal normally over time, and use craft skills to
    heal over downtime
    when they aren't sleeping (since a fighter has no need for rest), wow
    this keeps
    getting better. I still can't see too many drawbacks.

    Oh that is an interesting thought other magics that target only
    humaniods have no affect on them?
    Outside of healing magics 50%?

    > They also have 5% Arcane Spell Failure, which can cut down their
    > usefulness
    > as wizards or sorcerers.

    Isn't there a feat, perhaps medium armor casting that would negate
    this penalty
    in some book? 5% doesn't look like much, but 5% can be devestating
    under
    the wrong situations.

    >> At 1st level only they can take the Adamantine Body
    >> feat, which ups the +2 to a +8 and gives 'em DR2/adamantine but
    >> cuts
    >> their speed down to 20...still, pretty solid. They can also get
    >> themselves enchanted if they want.
    >
    > There's also Mithral Body, which gives them the equivalent of
    > mithral
    > breastplate, leaving their speed intact. New body-feats are given in
    > Races
    > of Eberron.

    Can they graft weapons to their bodies? So the chance for disarm is
    reduced?
    I could see a Warforged rogue with daggers built into his hands on
    springs
    being able to use them during grapples if he makes the required checks
    during the grapple.

    Of course the weapon grafting might limit their ability to use their
    hands, arms, etc for other purposes
    so that might be a big mistake to do unless the warforged is
    single-mindedly a warrior/fighter, etc
    whose only purpose is to cause bloodshed.

    >>> Can a Warforged be a barbarian or is he limited because of
    >>> physical
    >>> makeup?
    >>
    >> Sure. No restrictions on class.
    >
    > And it makes for a good combo, since a warforged won't suffer
    > fatigue
    > effects after raging.
    >
    > --
    > Mark.

    That's it, next character if we ever get into a Eberron game,
    warforged Barb/rogue
    moving into invisible blade. Although the nature of his body might
    have limiting
    factors for that class. Perhaps I'll have to rethink my plans for the
    character.
  15. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 07:16:07 -0400, "Decaying Atheist" <harker@coxdot.net>
    scribed into the ether:

    >
    >"Werebat" <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote in message
    >news:4uoce.1754$Hm.773@lakeread03...
    >>
    >>
    >> Looking through Eberron last night, I had an opportunity to realize
    >> that the Warforged aren't really as lame as I had originally
    >> thought. ALso noticed the Shifters and Changelings.
    >>
    >> Does anyone think these races are well-balanced in a normal D&D
    >> campaign? For example, if an isolated Artificer should through
    >> tinkering figure a way to craft a Warforged?
    >>
    >> - Ron ^*^
    >
    >I would allow that in my world. Of course creating a Warforged would
    >be a long
    >and involved process. Are their actual rules for creating new
    >Warforged in the
    >Eberron setting? I don't have the book, although I've been tempted to
    >get it.

    Not in the main book. Can almost certainly count on it showing up in a
    supplement somewhere. All of the magical forges used to create them were
    supposedly destroyed when the big treaty was signed. There are some rumors
    about some still active forges in existance, also the Lord of Blades has a
    bit of a vested interest and is working on the problem.
  16. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
    news:336571h2dn5oe5d5a4hm4gmv668vhi3o7c@4ax.com...
    > On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 07:16:07 -0400, "Decaying Atheist"
    > <harker@coxdot.net>
    > scribed into the ether:
    >
    >>
    >>"Werebat" <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote in message
    >>news:4uoce.1754$Hm.773@lakeread03...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Looking through Eberron last night, I had an opportunity to
    >>> realize
    >>> that the Warforged aren't really as lame as I had originally
    >>> thought. ALso noticed the Shifters and Changelings.
    >>>
    >>> Does anyone think these races are well-balanced in a normal D&D
    >>> campaign? For example, if an isolated Artificer should through
    >>> tinkering figure a way to craft a Warforged?
    >>>
    >>> - Ron ^*^
    >>
    >>I would allow that in my world. Of course creating a Warforged would
    >>be a long
    >>and involved process. Are their actual rules for creating new
    >>Warforged in the
    >>Eberron setting? I don't have the book, although I've been tempted
    >>to
    >>get it.
    >
    > Not in the main book. Can almost certainly count on it showing up in
    > a
    > supplement somewhere. All of the magical forges used to create them
    > were
    > supposedly destroyed when the big treaty was signed. There are some
    > rumors
    > about some still active forges in existance, also the Lord of Blades
    > has a
    > bit of a vested interest and is working on the problem.

    So currently it would be believed that the current number of warforged
    in existance
    is all that might ever exist since the means to make them is gone? Wow
    talk about a dismal outlook on life. Can't have kids, can't create a
    family,
    can't pass on your knowledge to younger warforged because they simply
    don't exist.
    Well it might not be an issue for some of them, but I'm sure there are
    a few out
    there that take all this with a very negative attitude.
  17. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:27:49 GMT, Matt Frisch wrote:

    >On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 07:16:07 -0400, "Decaying Atheist"
    >scribed into the ether:

    >>I would allow that in my world. Of course creating a Warforged would
    >>be a long and involved process. Are their actual rules for creating new
    >>Warforged in the Eberron setting? I don't have the book, although I've
    >>been tempted to get it.

    >Not in the main book. Can almost certainly count on it showing up in a
    >supplement somewhere. All of the magical forges used to create them were
    >supposedly destroyed when the big treaty was signed. There are some rumors
    >about some still active forges in existance, also the Lord of Blades has a
    >bit of a vested interest and is working on the problem.

    There's also an intriguing line/paragraph buried in the new book, Races of
    Eberron:

    While no particular bond exists between kalashtar and the warforged,
    kalashtar are fascinated by the construct race, especially the question of
    their souls. The mystics of the kalashtar are certain that House Cannith
    does not have the power to create souls, yet it is clear that the warforged
    possess unique souls. How can this be? Are there secrets about the
    warforged that even House Cannith doesn't know?

    --

    I'm betting that it will all tie back to Xendrik, where the 'original'
    Warforged are from. I think that it will turn out that the person who
    started the production of the Warforged took the Creation Forge
    'technology' from there without fully understanding it. They DUPLICATED
    it, but they don't understand it.


    Joel
  18. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Joel Fischoff (Agent)" <petrukio@rcn.com> wrote in message
    news:4im5715e7on4ti5l2ul713plve10ho6gqh@4ax.com...
    > On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:27:49 GMT, Matt Frisch wrote:
    >
    >>On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 07:16:07 -0400, "Decaying Atheist"
    >>scribed into the ether:
    >
    >>>I would allow that in my world. Of course creating a Warforged
    >>>would
    >>>be a long and involved process. Are their actual rules for creating
    >>>new
    >>>Warforged in the Eberron setting? I don't have the book, although
    >>>I've
    >>>been tempted to get it.
    >
    >>Not in the main book. Can almost certainly count on it showing up in
    >>a
    >>supplement somewhere. All of the magical forges used to create them
    >>were
    >>supposedly destroyed when the big treaty was signed. There are some
    >>rumors
    >>about some still active forges in existance, also the Lord of Blades
    >>has a
    >>bit of a vested interest and is working on the problem.
    >
    > There's also an intriguing line/paragraph buried in the new book,
    > Races of
    > Eberron:
    >
    > While no particular bond exists between kalashtar and the warforged,
    > kalashtar are fascinated by the construct race, especially the
    > question of
    > their souls. The mystics of the kalashtar are certain that House
    > Cannith
    > does not have the power to create souls, yet it is clear that the
    > warforged
    > possess unique souls. How can this be? Are there secrets about the
    > warforged that even House Cannith doesn't know?
    >
    > --
    >
    > I'm betting that it will all tie back to Xendrik, where the
    > 'original'
    > Warforged are from. I think that it will turn out that the person
    > who
    > started the production of the Warforged took the Creation Forge
    > 'technology' from there without fully understanding it. They
    > DUPLICATED
    > it, but they don't understand it.
    >
    >
    > Joel

    Souls, now that brings up even more questions. Oh well time to
    research.
  19. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Decaying Atheist wrote:
    > Matt Frisch wrote:
    > > Decaying Atheist scribed into the ether:
    > > >
    > > > Are their actual rules for creating new Warforged in the
    > > > Eberron setting? I don't have the book, although I've
    > > > been tempted to get it.

    I think it's well worth it. Great setting, and good material for any
    other setting, anyway.

    > > Not in the main book. Can almost certainly count on it
    > > showing up in a supplement somewhere. All of the magical
    > > forges used to create them were supposedly destroyed
    > > when the big treaty was signed. There are some rumors
    > > about some still active forges in existance, also the
    > > Lord of Blades has a bit of a vested interest and is
    > > working on the problem.
    >
    > So currently it would be believed that the current
    > number of warforged in existance is all that might
    > ever exist since the means to make them is gone?

    Except that, as mentioned, some forges are rumored to still exist.
    Supposedly, Merrix d'Cannith has a forge up and running in the Cogs of
    Sharn, and many warforged look to the Lord of Blades as almost a
    messianic figure. He claims to have found a way to create new
    warforged, deep in the Mournland.

    > Wow talk about a dismal outlook on life. Can't have
    > kids, can't create a family, can't pass on your
    > knowledge to younger warforged because they simply
    > don't exist. Well it might not be an issue for some
    > of them, but I'm sure there are a few out there that
    > take all this with a very negative attitude.

    Thus the entire point of the Lord of Blades and his near-cult. The
    Eberron novel, City of Towers, goes into this somewhat, and I expect
    the sequels will delve deeper into it. Pierce, the warforged in that
    story, does some thinking about just this subject.

    --
    Nik
    - remove vermin from email address to reply.
  20. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Decaying Atheist wrote:
    > Malachias Invictus wrote:
    > > Seann M. Ives wrote:
    > > >
    > > > They're catagorized as "Living Constructs" and can be
    > > > targetted by spells that affect living critters as well
    > > > as constructs, so healing magic works fine.
    > >
    > > I thought it only had 50% effect.
    >
    > So even at 50% effective both a party wizard and a cleric
    > could heal the Warforged. Assuming the wizard had repair
    > spells and the cleric used healing magic on the construct.

    Yup. Though to get the most out of a warforged, the warforged
    juggernaut prestige class is shiny (sorry, just watched Serenity
    trailer), and it gradually turns the 'forged into much more of a
    construct. (When each cool construct-ey ability is gained, the
    'forged loses some living aspect, like the ability to be affected by
    /cure/ spells.)

    > Double the healing power for your front line fighter. A
    > fighter with built in DR if the right feat is taken.

    Also yup. IMO, the biggest liability for a 'forged is their inability
    to remove their armor when affected by anti-armor spells such as /heat
    metal/ and /chill metal/, /repel metal or stone/ and /repel wood/, and
    their susceptibility to /rusting grasp/. There are also some actual
    anti-construct spells in Eberron, such as /disable construct/, used
    primarily against warforged and their predecessors (such as the mostly
    unintelligent warforged titan).

    --
    Nik
    - remove vermin from email address to reply.
  21. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Decaying Atheist wrote:
    >
    > Do they have "Blood," like a alchemical mix, or motor oil
    > that helps power them. So they can still heal normally
    > over time, and use craft skills to heal over downtime when
    > they aren't sleeping (since a fighter has no need for
    > rest),

    They cannot heal naturally. However, they automatically stabilize
    when brought below 0 hp (but not below -9, of course) and go inert,
    but not dead.

    > wow this keeps getting better. I still can't see too many
    > drawbacks.

    The biggest drawback is initially unbalanced stats (+2 Con, -2 Wis, -2
    Cha) and inability to use found magic armors.

    As living constructs, they are *not* immune to critical hits, ability
    damage or drain, stunning, nonlethal damage, death effects, Necro.
    effects, [Mind] effects, or Fort saves, nor do they have any kind of
    enhanced vision.

    > Oh that is an interesting thought other magics that target
    > only humaniods have no affect on them? Outside of healing
    > magics 50%?

    Healing magic disregards type. Their type is "Construct (Living
    Construct)", so they are not subject to Humanoid-only spells or
    effects (including Enlarge Person).

    Inflict spells retain their full effect against them (such as /harm/).

    One other note: they have a single natural attack (slam 1d4).

    > > They also have 5% Arcane Spell Failure, which can cut down
    > > their usefulness as wizards or sorcerers.
    >
    > Isn't there a feat, perhaps medium armor casting that would
    > negate this penalty in some book?

    Not core, AFAIK, and I'm personally disinclined to allow feats to
    negate ASF chances. This is part of the tradeoff of the 'forged.

    > Can they graft weapons to their bodies? So the chance for
    > disarm is reduced?

    There are items specifically intended to replace a 'forged's hand and
    arm, such as an "armbow" and "armblade".

    > > > > Can a Warforged be a barbarian or is he limited because
    > > > > of physical makeup?
    > > >
    > > > Sure. No restrictions on class.
    > >
    > > And it makes for a good combo, since a warforged won't
    > > suffer fatigue effects after raging.
    >
    > That's it, next character if we ever get into a Eberron
    > game, warforged Barb/rogue moving into invisible blade.
    > Although the nature of his body might have limiting
    > factors for that class.

    Doesn't the IBlade have restrictions on armor? It's not possible to
    have a 'forged ever be unarmored; they're always wearing at least
    light armor. This is why a 'forged ninja wouldn't be good, either.

    --
    Nik
    - remove vermin from email address to reply.
  22. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Decaying Atheist wrote:
    > "Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
    > news:336571h2dn5oe5d5a4hm4gmv668vhi3o7c@4ax.com...
    >> On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 07:16:07 -0400, "Decaying Atheist"
    >> <harker@coxdot.net>
    >> scribed into the ether:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> "Werebat" <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote in message
    >>> news:4uoce.1754$Hm.773@lakeread03...
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Looking through Eberron last night, I had an opportunity to
    >>>> realize
    >>>> that the Warforged aren't really as lame as I had originally
    >>>> thought. ALso noticed the Shifters and Changelings.
    >>>>
    >>>> Does anyone think these races are well-balanced in a normal D&D
    >>>> campaign? For example, if an isolated Artificer should through
    >>>> tinkering figure a way to craft a Warforged?
    >>>>
    >>>> - Ron ^*^
    >>>
    >>> I would allow that in my world. Of course creating a Warforged would
    >>> be a long
    >>> and involved process. Are their actual rules for creating new
    >>> Warforged in the
    >>> Eberron setting? I don't have the book, although I've been tempted
    >>> to
    >>> get it.
    >>
    >> Not in the main book. Can almost certainly count on it showing up in
    >> a
    >> supplement somewhere. All of the magical forges used to create them
    >> were
    >> supposedly destroyed when the big treaty was signed. There are some
    >> rumors
    >> about some still active forges in existance, also the Lord of Blades
    >> has a
    >> bit of a vested interest and is working on the problem.
    >
    > So currently it would be believed that the current number of warforged
    > in existance
    > is all that might ever exist since the means to make them is gone? Wow
    > talk about a dismal outlook on life. Can't have kids, can't create a
    > family,
    > can't pass on your knowledge to younger warforged because they simply
    > don't exist.
    > Well it might not be an issue for some of them, but I'm sure there are
    > a few out
    > there that take all this with a very negative attitude.

    More than likely. Most of them, though, aren't thinking in those terms yet,
    because family and offspring aren't concepts they have any experience with
    (they were all built between about 2 and 30 years ago, and have spent most
    of the subsequent time at war). But there are significant factions looking
    to take their future into their own hands by various means.

    --
    Mark.
  23. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Werebat wrote:
    > Tetsubo wrote:
    >
    >> The Ironborn from the Book Of Righteous Might would fit the "lone
    >> Artificer" model better I think.
    >
    > Hm, tell me more about these. I run a "different" kind of game, and I
    > could see using warforged as cyborgs and something else as
    > robots/androids... Are Ironborn more Construct than Living Construct?

    Yes, and they're designed to be much more modular than warforged. More
    information here:

    http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?mpress_BOIM

    --
    Christopher Adams - Sydney, Australia
    What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you
    understand?
    http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/prestigeclasslist.html
    http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/templatelist.html

    Perge, scelus, mihi diem perficias.

    Asatoma sat gamaya, tamasoma jyotir gamaya, mrityorma anritam gamaya.
  24. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Christopher Adams wrote:
    > Werebat wrote:
    >
    >>Tetsubo wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>The Ironborn from the Book Of Righteous Might would fit the "lone
    >>>Artificer" model better I think.
    >>
    >>Hm, tell me more about these. I run a "different" kind of game, and I
    >>could see using warforged as cyborgs and something else as
    >>robots/androids... Are Ironborn more Construct than Living Construct?
    >
    >
    > Yes, and they're designed to be much more modular than warforged. More
    > information here:
    >
    > http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?mpress_BOIM

    Interesting. I'd have to look at them more closely, but it would be
    nice (if they worked) to use them as androids/robots and the warforged
    as cyborgs.

    - Ron ^*^
  25. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Decaying Atheist wrote:
    > "Mark Blunden" <m.blundenATntlworld.com@address.invalid> wrote in
    > message news:3df5rrF6oju9sU1@individual.net...
    >> Seann M. Ives wrote:
    >>> In article <YZoce.221$RV5.152@lakeread08>,
    >>> Decaying Atheist <harker@coxdot.net> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> Does standard healing magic affect them at all? Or do they need
    >>>> the
    >>>> repair spells that have appeared in recent materials. I'm sure
    >>>> they
    >>>> were just updated in those most current sources because I swear I
    >>>> saw
    >>>> them before.
    >>>
    >>> They're catagorized as "Living Constructs" and can be targetted by
    >>> spells that affect living critters as well as constructs, so
    >>> healing
    >>> magic works fine. Incidentally, they don't heal naturally.
    >>
    >> Healing magic is only 50% effective on them. However, a warforged
    >> who takes
    >> an appropriate Craft skill, such as Armoursmithing, can repair
    >> itself over
    >> an 8-hour period. The amount of HP repaired equal the craft check
    >> result
    >> minus 15 (minimum 0). And warforged can heal non-lethal damage and
    >> ability
    >> damage normally.
    >
    > Do they have "Blood," like a alchemical mix, or motor oil that helps
    > power them.

    Yes, they do, so whilst they're immune to energy drain, they can, for
    instance, suffer ability drain or damage due to attacks by creatures such as
    vampires or stirges (though the attacker won't find its meal at all
    appetising).

    > So they can still heal normally over time, and use craft skills to
    > heal over downtime
    > when they aren't sleeping (since a fighter has no need for rest), wow
    > this keeps
    > getting better. I still can't see too many drawbacks.
    >
    > Oh that is an interesting thought other magics that target only
    > humaniods have no affect on them?
    > Outside of healing magics 50%?

    Correct. Spells like Charm Person have no effect on them, as they don't have
    the Humanoid type. However, certain spells which target their composite
    materials, such as Heat Metal, Warp Wood and Rusting Grasp have full effect
    on them, and they take lethal damage from a Rust Monster's attack.

    >> They also have 5% Arcane Spell Failure, which can cut down their
    >> usefulness
    >> as wizards or sorcerers.
    >
    > Isn't there a feat, perhaps medium armor casting that would negate
    > this penalty
    > in some book? 5% doesn't look like much, but 5% can be devestating
    > under
    > the wrong situations.

    Races of Eberron includes a feat called Unarmoured Body. It can be taken
    only at 1st level, like all the Body feats, and removes both their ASF
    penalty and armour bonus, and allows them to wear armour or robes. I'm not
    too keen on the feat, as it seems to go against the race's essential
    flavour, but I guess maybe these would be labourer-model warforged not
    intended for frontline combat.

    >>> At 1st level only they can take the Adamantine Body
    >>> feat, which ups the +2 to a +8 and gives 'em DR2/adamantine but
    >>> cuts
    >>> their speed down to 20...still, pretty solid. They can also get
    >>> themselves enchanted if they want.
    >>
    >> There's also Mithral Body, which gives them the equivalent of
    >> mithral
    >> breastplate, leaving their speed intact. New body-feats are given in
    >> Races
    >> of Eberron.
    >
    > Can they graft weapons to their bodies? So the chance for disarm is
    > reduced?
    > I could see a Warforged rogue with daggers built into his hands on
    > springs
    > being able to use them during grapples if he makes the required checks
    > during the grapple.

    Warforged can use a category of magic items called Warforged Components.
    These components are either Embedded (such as a disk that plugs into a chest
    socket and takes up the amulet slot) or Attached. Attached items include
    weapons, which are not grafted to the warforged's body, but clamp over the
    hand and wrist, completely enclosing them. Once attached, these weapons take
    extra time to remove, but cannot be disarmed.

    > Of course the weapon grafting might limit their ability to use their
    > hands, arms, etc for other purposes

    One good compromise is the Battlefist, an oversized spiked gauntlet which
    clamps over the warforged's hand as an attached component. It increases the
    damage dealt by the warforged's natural slam attack to 1d8, and carries a +1
    enhancement. Since it acts as a gauntlet, it can still be used to carry and
    wield objects. However, since it only enhances the warforged's natural
    attack, it can't be used to gain multiple iterative attacks once the
    character's BAB goes over +5.

    > so that might be a big mistake to do unless the warforged is
    > single-mindedly a warrior/fighter, etc
    > whose only purpose is to cause bloodshed.

    There's a prestige class, the Warforged Juggernaut, which pretty much
    emphasises such a mindset. As a warforged progresses in this path, it takes
    on more Construct traits, loses the ability to benefit from healing spells,
    and grows armour spikes from its body.

    >>>> Can a Warforged be a barbarian or is he limited because of
    >>>> physical
    >>>> makeup?
    >>>
    >>> Sure. No restrictions on class.
    >>
    >> And it makes for a good combo, since a warforged won't suffer
    >> fatigue
    >> effects after raging.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Mark.
    >
    > That's it, next character if we ever get into a Eberron game,
    > warforged Barb/rogue
    > moving into invisible blade. Although the nature of his body might
    > have limiting
    > factors for that class. Perhaps I'll have to rethink my plans for the
    > character.

    A warforged with Mithral Body takes only a -2 armour check penalty, and has
    max dex of +5 and +5 armour class, making a decent compromise for a rogue.
    It's also considered light armour, so barbarian abilities aren't
    compromised. You can apply armour enhancements to a warforged's plating, and
    for 5000gp you could get an Essence of the Scout, one of the embedded
    components I mentioned earlier, which grants +5 to Hide and Move Silently.
    I'm not familiar with the Invisible Blade, so I don't know if it would be
    incompatible.

    --
    Mark.
  26. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Mark Blunden wrote:
    > Decaying Atheist wrote:
    >
    >> Isn't there a feat, perhaps medium armor casting that would negate
    >> this penalty in some book? 5% doesn't look like much, but 5%
    >> can be devestating under the wrong situations.
    >
    > Races of Eberron includes a feat called Unarmoured Body. It can be taken
    > only at 1st level, like all the Body feats, and removes both their ASF
    > penalty and armour bonus, and allows them to wear armour or robes. I'm
    > not too keen on the feat, as it seems to go against the race's essential
    > flavour, but I guess maybe these would be labourer-model warforged not
    > intended for frontline combat.

    Alternatively, they could be a special model intended for arcane magical
    instruction. Keith Baker, the original designer of Eberron, answers questions
    like these in the Eberron subsection of the Wizards of the Coast boards, and his
    usual solution to things like this is "It's perfectly possible House Cannith or
    one of its client nations wanted some specialist wizard warforged for one reason
    or another."

    --
    Christopher Adams - Sydney, Australia
    What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you
    understand?
    http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/prestigeclasslist.html
    http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/templatelist.html

    Perge, scelus, mihi diem perficias.

    Asatoma sat gamaya, tamasoma jyotir gamaya, mrityorma anritam gamaya.
  27. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    In article <3dfucbF6p8lfiU1@individual.net>,
    "Mark Blunden" <m.blundenATntlworld.com@address.invalid> wrote:

    > Decaying Atheist wrote:
    > > "Mark Blunden" <m.blundenATntlworld.com@address.invalid> wrote in
    > > message news:3df5rrF6oju9sU1@individual.net...
    > >> Seann M. Ives wrote:

    > >> They also have 5% Arcane Spell Failure, which can cut down their
    > >> usefulness
    > >> as wizards or sorcerers.
    > >
    > > Isn't there a feat, perhaps medium armor casting that would negate
    > > this penalty
    > > in some book? 5% doesn't look like much, but 5% can be devestating
    > > under
    > > the wrong situations.
    >
    > Races of Eberron includes a feat called Unarmoured Body. It can be taken
    > only at 1st level, like all the Body feats, and removes both their ASF
    > penalty and armour bonus, and allows them to wear armour or robes. I'm not
    > too keen on the feat, as it seems to go against the race's essential
    > flavour, but I guess maybe these would be labourer-model warforged not
    > intended for frontline combat.
    >

    Other possible reasons:

    The war was going badly for their creators at the time and they
    didn't have enough metal to outfit all the warforged they built that
    year with armor.

    They built a batch of warforgeds to man the heavy weapons of a
    fortress, since they would be behind the fortresses thick walls most of
    they time their builder figured they could skimp on the armor.

    A naval power experimented with mostly wooden warforged that would be
    better swimmers and serve as sailors and/or marines.


    Charleson Mambo

    --
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    To confuse, inveigle, and obfuscate.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    <spam> www.accanthology.com Buy "The Alt.Cyberpunk.Chatsubo Anthology" </spam>
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  28. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Decaying Atheist wrote:
    > "Seann M. Ives" <abate@sidehack.sat.gweep.net> wrote in message
    > news:abate.1114784696@sidehack.sat.gweep.net...
    >> In article <YZoce.221$RV5.152@lakeread08>,
    >> Decaying Atheist <harker@coxdot.net> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Does standard healing magic affect them at all? Or do they need the
    >>> repair spells that have appeared in recent materials. I'm sure they
    >>> were just updated in those most current sources because I swear I
    >>> saw
    >>> them before.
    >>
    >> They're catagorized as "Living Constructs" and can be targetted by
    >> spells that affect living critters as well as constructs, so healing
    >> magic works fine. Incidentally, they don't heal naturally.
    >
    > So they get a little of each, some humanoid traits and some construct
    > traits.
    > One last question, are they destroyed at 0 hp or simply out of
    > commission
    > and subject to slow death by bleeding etc.

    Neither. :)

    At zero hitpoints, a warforged is disabled, and can take only single
    actions, but stressful actions will not reduce his hitpoints further. Below
    zero hit points, a warforged is inert - he is unconscious but stable, and
    will neither lose hitpoints nor heal any lethal damage taken. At -10, a
    warforged is destroyed.

    >> They get Light Fortification, though generally are subject to crits,
    >> stunning, and all that, unlike normal constructs.
    >
    > So still a 25% non-crit rate is better then no crit missing.

    Warforged can take Improved Fortification as a feat to become immune to
    crits and sneak attacks, but it loses them the ability to benefit from
    healing spells at all (but not repair spells).

    --
    Mark.
  29. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Decaying Atheist wrote:
    >
    > Which brings up something I was thinking about. How to the other races
    > view warforged?
    > Not a real question, just a thought. I'll read up myself unless any of
    > you really feel like filling me in. That is not a hint to do so in any way,
    > since I will
    > certainly get the book soon enough.

    Opinions vary, as you might expect. There are anti-warforged demonstrations in
    some places from time to time - you could draw a fairly accurate parallel
    between the experience of Vietnam veterans in the United States and that of
    warforged in Khorvaire, given that in many people's minds the warforged have
    *no* other purpose than soldiering. They're a reminder of the war which
    destroyed thousands of lives, and even other humanoid veterans might hate or
    fear them - warforged were scary to fight, because they were just so much more
    effective than regular troops and seemed to fight without regard for their own
    existence.

    Even when warforged try to make something else of their lives than warfare, they
    attract resentment because they never tire, which means that they can put
    humanoid workers out of a job - why hire a labourer and a night watchman when
    one warforged can do the same job? Indeed, that's exactly what the "A Day In The
    Life" warforged does - he loads and unloads crates during the day and guards the
    warehouse at night.

    Some warforged have found religion - the Lord of Blades is seen by some as a
    warforged messiah. He's a bit like Malcolm X when he was first famous, in some
    ways - arguing that fleshers and warforged cannot live side-by-side, and trying
    to set up a nation for warforged only in the Mournland. Other warforged worship
    the same gods as humanoid races. That can ease other races' view of the
    warforged, you know? Especially in heavily religious nations like Thrane.

    --
    Christopher Adams - Sydney, Australia
    What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you
    understand?
    http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/prestigeclasslist.html
    http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/templatelist.html

    Perge, scelus, mihi diem perficias.

    Asatoma sat gamaya, tamasoma jyotir gamaya, mrityorma anritam gamaya.
  30. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Nikolas Landauer" <dacileva.flea@hotmail.com.tick> wrote in message
    news:1114830658.ae22ba440343a610e38b0a1305cd822a@teranews...

    >> Isn't there a feat, perhaps medium armor casting that would
    >> negate this penalty in some book?
    >
    > Not core, AFAIK, and I'm personally disinclined to allow feats to
    > negate ASF chances. This is part of the tradeoff of the 'forged.

    The Spellsword Prestige Class would take care of that, as would the Twilight
    armor enhancement from the Book of Exalted Deeds.

    --
    ^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

    It matters not how strait the gate,
    How charged with punishment the scroll,
    I am the Master of my fate:
    I am the Captain of my soul.

    from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
  31. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Nikolas Landauer wrote:
    >
    > Doesn't the IBlade have restrictions on armor? It's not possible to
    > have a 'forged ever be unarmored; they're always wearing at least
    > light armor. This is why a 'forged ninja wouldn't be good, either.

    Even if that were true, they could take Unarmoured Body. ;)

    --
    Christopher Adams - Sydney, Australia
    What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you
    understand?
    http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/prestigeclasslist.html
    http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/templatelist.html

    Perge, scelus, mihi diem perficias.

    Asatoma sat gamaya, tamasoma jyotir gamaya, mrityorma anritam gamaya.
  32. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 17:23:51 -0400, "Decaying Atheist"
    <harker@coxdot.net> carved upon a tablet of ether:

    > So currently it would be believed that the current number of warforged
    > in existance
    > is all that might ever exist since the means to make them is gone? Wow
    > talk about a dismal outlook on life. Can't have kids, can't create a
    > family,
    > can't pass on your knowledge to younger warforged because they simply
    > don't exist.
    > Well it might not be an issue for some of them, but I'm sure there are
    > a few out
    > there that take all this with a very negative attitude.

    You're assuming that they were created with these desires as part of
    their makeup. As they were created to be soliders, not parents or
    educators, why would they have been?


    --
    Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
    "Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
    should be free."
  33. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
    news:kcf571tip9afp3gbptvgs16o3q1a48j80d@4ax.com...
    > On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 17:23:51 -0400, "Decaying Atheist"
    > <harker@coxdot.net> carved upon a tablet of ether:
    >
    >> So currently it would be believed that the current number of
    >> warforged
    >> in existance
    >> is all that might ever exist since the means to make them is gone?
    >> Wow
    >> talk about a dismal outlook on life. Can't have kids, can't create
    >> a
    >> family,
    >> can't pass on your knowledge to younger warforged because they
    >> simply
    >> don't exist.
    >> Well it might not be an issue for some of them, but I'm sure there
    >> are
    >> a few out
    >> there that take all this with a very negative attitude.
    >
    > You're assuming that they were created with these desires as part of
    > their makeup. As they were created to be soliders, not parents or
    > educators, why would they have been?
    >
    >
    > --
    > Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
    > "Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth
    > itself
    > should be free."

    Maybe not in their makeup but have they developed passed their
    original design? They are
    living constructs as others have said. I don't have any real clue to
    almost all of this
    since I haven't had the chance to read up on them.

    I understand they were first created for one purpose but do all
    warforged
    still seek only to do all actions that further that purpose and
    nothing else?
    Are they truely living, or just living creatures who are forced to
    follow
    a single path, never able to think outside of that box? I can't see
    that to be the case if you are dealing with a PC race. So in my mind,
    they are
    probably able to grow beyond their first "programming."

    Perhaps being in contact with other races has an effect on their
    belief system
    or whatever guides them to do their job, (wage war?)

    I do see your point, and I would probably have to agree that in the
    beginning
    and maybe even now (once again I don't have the book yet, so can't
    back up
    much of what I'm saying with hard and fast content offered by WOTC)
    they
    were built for a single purpose. Never meant to experience these
    things and
    hence are governed by the same desires that some humaniod races
    experience.
  34. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Decaying Atheist wrote:
    >
    > I understand they were first created for one purpose but do all
    > warforged still seek only to do all actions that further that
    > purpose and nothing else?
    > Are they truely living, or just living creatures who are forced to
    > follow a single path, never able to think outside of that box? I
    > can't see that to be the case if you are dealing with a PC race.
    > So in my mind, they are probably able to grow beyond their
    > first "programming."
    >
    > Perhaps being in contact with other races has an effect on their
    > belief system or whatever guides them to do their job, (wage
    > war?)

    Rest assured that Races of Eberron does answer these questions - warforged vary
    in their approach to life, but basically anything is possible.

    There's a prestige class for warforged who wish to become more "living" than
    "construct" - the reforged. The reforged prestige class is something like the
    flipside of the warforged juggernaut prestige class in the Eberron Campaign
    Setting, which makes a warforged more construct-like; for instance, at 1st level
    you gain a bonus equal to your reforged class level on Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather
    Information, and Sense Motive checks, as you become more involved in the lives
    of living creatures and understand their social conventions better. You also
    gain the ability to heal naturally, and benefit from bed rest and proper care
    when healing. The 2nd level gives you the full benefit of magical healing
    (instead of 50%), and bonuses on Wisdom checks and Wisdom-based skills.

    The 3rd level is the controversial one - because it involves undergoing the
    Final Reforging, which causes you to lose every warforged feat you have in
    exchange for any bonus feat you qualify for, plus Unarmoured Body as an
    additional bonus feat. Basically, you lose your composite plating, armour
    spikes, metal tracery, all of the most construct-like elements of a warforged's
    physical form.

    There's a picture of the sample reforged, an evil sorcerer - without the
    plating, he looks like a dried mummy (presumably all that's left to him is the
    wooden elements of his body). This is it here:

    http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/roe_gallery/88258.jpg

    The other picture attached to the prestige class is amusing:

    http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/roe_gallery/88257.jpg

    --
    Christopher Adams - Sydney, Australia
    What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you
    understand?
    http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/prestigeclasslist.html
    http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/templatelist.html

    Perge, scelus, mihi diem perficias.

    Asatoma sat gamaya, tamasoma jyotir gamaya, mrityorma anritam gamaya.
  35. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Nikolas Landauer" <dacileva.flea@hotmail.com.tick> wrote in message
    news:1114830658.ae22ba440343a610e38b0a1305cd822a@teranews...
    >
    > Doesn't the IBlade have restrictions on armor? It's not possible to
    > have a 'forged ever be unarmored; they're always wearing at least
    > light armor. This is why a 'forged ninja wouldn't be good, either.
    >
    The basic composite plating isn't considered armour for purposes
    of class restrictions, so Warforged Monks and Ninja are OK.

    Geoff.
  36. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Geoff Watson wrote:
    > Nikolas Landauer wrote:
    > >
    > > Doesn't the IBlade have restrictions on armor? It's not
    > > possible to have a 'forged ever be unarmored; they're
    > > always wearing at least light armor. This is why a
    > > 'forged ninja wouldn't be good, either.
    >
    > The basic composite plating isn't considered armour
    > for purposes of class restrictions, so Warforged
    > Monks and Ninja are OK.

    Hm. So it isn't. I must have been thinking of the language in the
    Foo Body feats. It does seem somewhat odd, though, to get a "free"
    armor bonus while not being considered as wearing armor. This
    actually makes 'forged monks and ninjae even more attractive (except
    for that Wis penalty and Cha penalty, of course), especially given the
    rule (in the "Other Classes" section) stating that 'forged monks can
    use Wholeness of Body to /repair/ themselves, rather than /cure/.

    --
    Nik
    - remove vermin from email address to reply.
  37. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 01:57:14 -0400, Nikolas Landauer wrote:
    >Hm. So it isn't. I must have been thinking of the language in the
    >Foo Body feats. It does seem somewhat odd, though, to get a "free"
    >armor bonus while not being considered as wearing armor. This
    >actually makes 'forged monks and ninjae even more attractive (except
    >for that Wis penalty and Cha penalty, of course), especially given the
    >rule (in the "Other Classes" section) stating that 'forged monks can
    >use Wholeness of Body to /repair/ themselves, rather than /cure/.

    It gets better. This from Races of Eberron, page 23, with my comments
    interspersed.

    "Monk: Monk is a good class choice for a warforged character. Monks do not
    normally wear armor, so the bonus inherent to the race is a great
    advantage. You can choose to increase that advantage with Adamantine Body
    or Mithral Body, but both of those feats cause you to take penalties to
    skills important to most monks."

    Note: It just said that you take penalties to skills important to monks,
    NOT that anything else is affected. This means that a Warforged Monk with
    the Adamantine Body feat (+8 armor bonus) can still be further enchanted
    and does not lose his AC (Monk, Wisdom) bonus, does not lose his fast
    movement, nor does he lose his flurry of blows ability. This is great if
    you aren't a big skill-using Monk -- and remember that Warforged can be
    directly enchanted with things like Slick and Shadow, so the worst of these
    reductions can be countered. Said armor enhancements can't be destroyed in
    the ways that regular armor can be destroyed - with a standard character,
    an acid-using creature (like a Black Pudding or other oozes) can
    destroy/dissolve armor. Since this *isn't* considered armor, the damage is
    direct, which means that such a creature has to kill a warforged in order
    to do lasting damage to it.

    And it gets better still. Continuing...

    "Consider taking Cold Iron Tracery or Silver Tracery. These feats allow
    your unarmed strikes to overcome damage reduction that you must normally
    find monk weapons of the right material to defeat."

    Cold Iron Tracery makes your 'natural weapons' (which includes a monk's
    unarmed strikes) treated as cold iron weapons in terms of damage reduction.
    It also grants a +1 (unnamed) bonus to Will saves against spells and
    spell-like abilities. Silver Tracery does the same effective thing,
    except, of course, the weapons are treated as silvered weapons and the +1
    bonus is for Fortitude saves under the same conditions. This is, I
    believe, the ONLY way you can have a weapon that is both Cold Iron AND
    Silvered at the same time.

    Joel
  38. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Yes, a follow-up to myself, because I just thought of something even more
    sick and twisted that could be done.

    Warforged Monk with the Adamantine Body feat.

    At 3rd level (or higher), he takes the Vow of Poverty feat. He's not USING
    a magic item because he IS a magic item. He could even continue to be
    enhanced and it would not be a violation of his vow. Though, it would have
    to be enhancements done by someone else - unless he was capable of
    enhancing himself.

    Imagine, an 20th level Warforged Monk, sans statistics:

    Warforged Traits:
    Immune to poison.
    Immune to sleep effects.
    Immune to paralysis.
    Immune to disease.
    Immune to nausea.
    Immune to fatigue.
    Immune to exhaustion.
    Immune to effects that cause the sickened condition.
    Immune to energy drain.
    Does not need to eat.
    Does not need to sleep.
    Does not need to breathe.
    Receives 50% effect of spells from the healing subschool.
    Receives 50% effect of supernatural abilities that heal hit point or
    ability damage
    +2 Constitution, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma
    Base Land Speed 30 ft (20 ft with the Adamatine Body feat)
    +2 armor bonus (+8 with Adamantine Body)
    5% Arcane Spell failure (35% with Adamantine Body)
    Light Fortification
    Natural Attack: Slam 1d4
    Damage Reduction 2/Adamantine (with Adamantine Body)

    Monk Traits:
    HD: 20d8
    BAB +15/+10/+5
    Base Saves: Fort +12, Reflex +12, Will +12
    3 Monk Bonus feats
    Unarmed Strike, damage 2d10
    (Greater) Flurry of Blows +15/+15/+15/+10/+5
    Improved Evasion
    Still Mind
    Ki Strike (Magic, Lawful, Adamantine)
    Slow Fall, any distance
    Purity of Body
    Wholeness of Body (which can be used to repair instead of cure)
    Diamond Body
    Abundant Step
    Diamond Soul
    Quivering Palm
    Timeless Body
    Tongue of the Sun and Moon
    Empty Body
    Perfect Self
    AC Bonus +4
    Speed Bonus +60

    And now let's add in Vow of Poverty. Let's say he took it at 18th level,
    if just not to deal with having to take too many Exalted Feats.

    Ascetic Traits:
    AC Bonus +10
    Endure Elements
    Exalted Strike +5 (magic, good)
    Greater Sustenance
    Deflection Bonus +3
    Resistance Bonus +3
    Ability Score Enhancement +8/+6/+4/+2
    Natural Armor +2
    Mind Shielding
    Damage Reduction 10/evil
    Resistance to Acid 15
    Resistance to Cold 15
    Resistance to Electricity 15
    Resistance to Fire 15
    Resistance to Sonic 15
    Freedom of Movement
    Regeneration (1 hp/level/hour)
    True Seeing
    +2 perfection bonus to Diplomacy (from Sacred Vow)

    In short, an unarmed strike from this fellow would be +20 to hit, 2d10+5 to
    damage before you consider statistics or feats like Weapon Focus. Each
    strike would be considered Magic, Lawful, Adamantine, and Good. If you
    take the Cold Iron Tracery and Silver Tracery feats, you'd add Cold Iron
    and Silver to that.

    His AC bonus before statistics or any modifications to his body would be 37
    (10 +8 (Adamantine Body) +10 (Exalted Bonus) +3 (Deflection Bonus) +2
    (Natural Armor Bonus)). The Dexterity restriction on his Adamantine Body
    would mean that Dex could only bring it up one more, and his Wisdom bonus
    would also be applied. With the statistic increases, I could see him
    getting up into the mid-to-high 40s normally, and since chances are that
    he'd have a high enough Tumble, into the 50s when fighting defensively or
    taking the full-defense option.

    His base saves would be +15 against everything.

    He'd also have DR 10/evil, 2/adamantine, 15 Resistance to Acid, Cold,
    Electricity, Fire, and Sonic, be immune to Detect Thoughts, Discern Lies,
    any attempt to discern his alignment, poison, sleep effects, paralysis,
    disease, nausea, fatigue, exhaustion, effects that cause the sickened
    condition, and energy drain.

    If he took Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty earlier in life, these numbers
    would be even higher (Vow of Abstinence - +4 perfection bonus to Fortitude
    saves versus drugs (since he's immune to poison), Vow of Nonviolence (DC
    for special abilities against humanoid/monstrous humanoids that do not deal
    lethal/ability damage is increased by +4, such as stunning fist attacks),
    Vow of Obedience (+4 perfection bonus on Will saves against compulsion
    spells/effects), Vow of Peace (Calming Aura 20 ft. DC 20+Cha Modifier, +2
    Natural Armor Bonus, +2 Deflection Bonus, +2 Exalted Armor Bonus,
    Manufactured weapons striking you must save vs DC 20+Con Modifier or
    shatter, +4 Exalted Bonus on Diplomacy checks), Vow of Purity (+4
    perfection bonus on Fortitude saves versus death effects (since already
    immune to disease)).

    And lots and lots more...


    Joel
  39. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Joel Fischoff (Agent)" <petrukio@rcn.com> wrote in message
    news:rpm7715enbjit3e003oggdc23s1i04q4at@4ax.com...

    > His AC bonus before statistics or any modifications to his body would be
    > 37
    > (10 +8 (Adamantine Body) +10 (Exalted Bonus)

    No. The Exalted bonus is considered an Armor bonus and does not stack with
    other things that give an Armor bonus.

    --
    ^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

    It matters not how strait the gate,
    How charged with punishment the scroll,
    I am the Master of my fate:
    I am the Captain of my soul.

    from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
  40. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    > > > Isn't there a feat, perhaps medium armor casting
    > > > that would negate this penalty in some book?

    Nikolas Landauer wrote:
    > > Not core, AFAIK, and I'm personally disinclined to
    > > allow feats to negate ASF chances. This is part
    > > of the tradeoff of the 'forged.

    Malachias Invictus wrote:
    > The Spellsword Prestige Class would take care of
    > that,

    Not too much of a problem; the Spellsword is otherwise balanced; also,
    being a bard would do it, too. :D

    > as would the Twilight armor enhancement from the
    > Book of Exalted Deeds.

    What's the pricing and effects of this? I'm extremely leery of
    allowing any non-internal method of negating ASF, and am not willing
    to allow feats to do so. Too much abuse potential.

    --
    Nik
    - remove vermin from email address to reply.
  41. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Joel Fischoff (Agent) wrote:
    >
    > This from Races of Eberron, page 23, with my comments
    > interspersed.
    >
    > "Monk: Monk is a good class choice for a warforged
    > character. Monks do not normally wear armor, so the
    > bonus inherent to the race is a great advantage. You
    > can choose to increase that advantage with Adamantine
    > Body or Mithral Body, but both of those feats cause
    > you to take penalties to skills important to most
    > monks."
    >
    > Note: It just said that you take penalties to skills
    > important to monks, NOT that anything else is
    > affected.

    I think you're reading too much into the flavor text. While Tumble is
    affected by Adamantine Body, so are tons of other monk abilities.

    > This means that a Warforged Monk with the Adamantine
    > Body feat (+8 armor bonus) can still be further
    > enchanted and does not lose his AC (Monk, Wisdom)
    > bonus, does not lose his fast movement, nor does he
    > lose his flurry of blows ability.

    I can't accept this as even possibly true. If intended by the writers
    of RoE, then the writers of RoE are very simply wrong.

    Adamantine Body: "... and you are considered to be wearing heavy
    armor."

    Mithral Body: "... and you are considered to be wearing light armor."

    > "Consider taking Cold Iron Tracery or Silver Tracery.
    > These feats allow your unarmed strikes to overcome
    > damage reduction that you must normally find monk
    > weapons of the right material to defeat."

    This is fine, though I wouldn't allow both on the same character.

    > This is, I believe, the ONLY way you can have a weapon
    > that is both Cold Iron AND Silvered at the same time.

    A good indication that this wasn't the intent.

    From the sounds of it, RoE was poorly edited for rules balance.

    --
    Nik
    - remove vermin from email address to reply.
  42. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Joel Fischoff (Agent) <petrukio@rcn.com> wrote:
    >
    > Warforged Traits:
    > Immune to poison.
    > Immune to sleep effects.
    > Immune to paralysis.
    > Immune to disease.
    > Immune to nausea.
    > Immune to fatigue.
    > Immune to exhaustion.
    > Immune to effects that cause the sickened condition.
    > Immune to energy drain.
    > Does not need to eat.
    > Does not need to sleep.
    > Does not need to breathe.

    heh, that sounds like an intrinsics summary of a nethack character.


    Keith
    --
    Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
    keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
    keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
    http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch
  43. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    "Nikolas Landauer" <dacileva.flea@hotmail.com.tick> wrote in message
    news:1114896256.2fc646f9d1426d0296d0583f5ec83129@teranews...
    > Joel Fischoff (Agent) wrote:
    >>
    >> This from Races of Eberron, page 23, with my comments
    >> interspersed.
    >>
    >> "Monk: Monk is a good class choice for a warforged
    >> character. Monks do not normally wear armor, so the
    >> bonus inherent to the race is a great advantage. You
    >> can choose to increase that advantage with Adamantine
    >> Body or Mithral Body, but both of those feats cause
    >> you to take penalties to skills important to most
    >> monks."
    >>
    >> Note: It just said that you take penalties to skills
    >> important to monks, NOT that anything else is
    >> affected.
    >
    > I think you're reading too much into the flavor text. While Tumble is
    > affected by Adamantine Body, so are tons of other monk abilities.
    >
    >> This means that a Warforged Monk with the Adamantine
    >> Body feat (+8 armor bonus) can still be further
    >> enchanted and does not lose his AC (Monk, Wisdom)
    >> bonus, does not lose his fast movement, nor does he
    >> lose his flurry of blows ability.
    >
    > I can't accept this as even possibly true. If intended by the writers
    > of RoE, then the writers of RoE are very simply wrong.
    >
    > Adamantine Body: "... and you are considered to be wearing heavy
    > armor."

    More to the point, it says "Warforged characters with this feat do not gain
    the benefit of any class feature prohibited to a character wearing heavy
    armor." That is pretty damned clear and speaks directly to the point.

    > Mithral Body: "... and you are considered to be wearing light armor."

    Likewise, but with light armor.

    >> "Consider taking Cold Iron Tracery or Silver Tracery.
    >> These feats allow your unarmed strikes to overcome
    >> damage reduction that you must normally find monk
    >> weapons of the right material to defeat."
    >
    > This is fine, though I wouldn't allow both on the same character.

    Why not? It is not as if they are getting these abilities free.

    >> This is, I believe, the ONLY way you can have a weapon
    >> that is both Cold Iron AND Silvered at the same time.
    >
    > A good indication that this wasn't the intent.

    Nonsense. Sorry, but those abilities really are not that big of a deal. I
    can emulate them with a few gold pieces worth of equipment.

    --
    ^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

    It matters not how strait the gate,
    How charged with punishment the scroll,
    I am the Master of my fate:
    I am the Captain of my soul.

    from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
  44. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Nikolas Landauer wrote:
    >
    > What's the pricing and effects of this? I'm extremely leery of
    > allowing any non-internal method of negating ASF, and am not willing
    > to allow feats to do so. Too much abuse potential.

    Twilight: This suit of armour, favoured by eladrin spellcasters, becomes
    semi-incorporeal and transluscent when donned. It also possesses a faint
    sunset-coloured sheen. The twilight armour reduces the chance of arcane spell
    failure by -10%. Faint abjuration; CL 5th; Craft Magic Arms and Armour; Price:
    +1 bonus.

    Despite the wording of the first sentence, it's an armour property, not a
    specific suit of armour.

    --
    Christopher Adams - Sydney, Australia
    What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you
    understand?
    http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/prestigeclasslist.html
    http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/templatelist.html

    Perge, scelus, mihi diem perficias.

    Asatoma sat gamaya, tamasoma jyotir gamaya, mrityorma anritam gamaya.
  45. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    mhacdebhandia@yahoo.invalid wrote:

    > There's a prestige class for warforged who wish to become more "living" than
    > "construct" - the reforged. The reforged prestige class is something like the
    > flipside of the warforged juggernaut prestige class in the Eberron Campaign
    > Setting, which makes a warforged more construct-like; for instance, at 1st level
    > you gain a bonus equal to your reforged class level on Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather
    > Information, and Sense Motive checks, as you become more involved in the lives
    > of living creatures and understand their social conventions better.

    Eh. I'm not sure I really like that. How many levels does the class
    have? Three? Five? Giving them a bonus to offset the Cha penalty is
    fine, but I don't think a warforged rogue/reforged should be a better
    socialite than a changeling rogue. Or even human rogue.

    > You also
    > gain the ability to heal naturally, and benefit from bed rest and proper care
    > when healing. The 2nd level gives you the full benefit of magical healing
    > (instead of 50%),

    This is fine.

    > and bonuses on Wisdom checks and Wisdom-based skills.

    Same as for Cha...

    > The 3rd level is the controversial one - because it involves undergoing the
    > Final Reforging, which causes you to lose every warforged feat you have in
    > exchange for any bonus feat you qualify for, plus Unarmoured Body as an
    > additional bonus feat. Basically, you lose your composite plating, armour
    > spikes, metal tracery, all of the most construct-like elements of a warforged's
    > physical form.

    Very interesting!

    What's Unarmoured Body like?


    --
    Jasin Zujovic
    jzujovic@inet.hr
  46. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    m.blundenATntlworld.com@address.invalid wrote:

    > Spells like Charm Person have no effect on them, as they don't have
    > the Humanoid type. However, certain spells which target their composite
    > materials, such as Heat Metal, Warp Wood and Rusting Grasp have full effect
    > on them, and they take lethal damage from a Rust Monster's attack.

    Note that this last is more of a benefit than a hindrance. I'd rather
    take 2d6 damage (Reflex half) than have my armour/weapon instantly
    destroyed (Reflex negates).

    > >> They also have 5% Arcane Spell Failure, which can cut down their
    > >> usefulness
    > >> as wizards or sorcerers.
    > >
    > > Isn't there a feat, perhaps medium armor casting that would negate
    > > this penalty
    > > in some book? 5% doesn't look like much, but 5% can be devestating
    > > under
    > > the wrong situations.
    >
    > Races of Eberron includes a feat called Unarmoured Body. It can be taken
    > only at 1st level, like all the Body feats, and removes both their ASF
    > penalty and armour bonus, and allows them to wear armour or robes. I'm not
    > too keen on the feat, as it seems to go against the race's essential
    > flavour, but I guess maybe these would be labourer-model warforged not
    > intended for frontline combat.

    Hm. Is that all the feat does? A feat for -2 to AC and -5% ASF doesn't
    seem like too good a deal, especially compared to other body feats...


    --
    Jasin Zujovic
    jzujovic@inet.hr
  47. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    capt_malachias@hotmail.com wrote:

    > >> Isn't there a feat, perhaps medium armor casting that would
    > >> negate this penalty in some book?
    > >
    > > Not core, AFAIK, and I'm personally disinclined to allow feats to
    > > negate ASF chances. This is part of the tradeoff of the 'forged.
    >
    > The Spellsword Prestige Class would take care of that, as would the Twilight
    > armor enhancement from the Book of Exalted Deeds.

    I don't really like the twilight enhancement, but the spellsword (and
    the runesmith from Races of Stone) seem like a really good fit for a
    warforged.

    Instead of trying to mimic a human wizard, be a *warforged* wizard!


    --
    Jasin Zujovic
    jzujovic@inet.hr
  48. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    petrukio@rcn.com wrote:

    > >Hm. So it isn't. I must have been thinking of the language in the
    > >Foo Body feats. It does seem somewhat odd, though, to get a "free"
    > >armor bonus while not being considered as wearing armor. This
    > >actually makes 'forged monks and ninjae even more attractive (except
    > >for that Wis penalty and Cha penalty, of course), especially given the
    > >rule (in the "Other Classes" section) stating that 'forged monks can
    > >use Wholeness of Body to /repair/ themselves, rather than /cure/.
    >
    > It gets better. This from Races of Eberron, page 23, with my comments
    > interspersed.
    >
    > "Monk: Monk is a good class choice for a warforged character. Monks do not
    > normally wear armor, so the bonus inherent to the race is a great
    > advantage. You can choose to increase that advantage with Adamantine Body
    > or Mithral Body, but both of those feats cause you to take penalties to
    > skills important to most monks."
    >
    > Note: It just said that you take penalties to skills important to monks,
    > NOT that anything else is affected. This means that a Warforged Monk with
    > the Adamantine Body feat (+8 armor bonus) can still be further enchanted
    > and does not lose his AC (Monk, Wisdom) bonus, does not lose his fast
    > movement, nor does he lose his flurry of blows ability.

    I don't know whether the implication that you don't lose anything other
    than skills is intentional, but the Adamantine Body in ECS says:
    "Warforged characters with this feat do not gain the benefit of any
    class feature prohibited to a character wearing heavy armor."

    Eberron Campaign Setting explicit ruling + common sense trumps Races of
    Eberron implicit ruling, IMO.


    --
    Jasin Zujovic
    jzujovic@inet.hr
  49. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Jasin Zujovic wrote:
    > petrukio@rcn.com wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>Hm. So it isn't. I must have been thinking of the language in the
    >>>Foo Body feats. It does seem somewhat odd, though, to get a "free"
    >>>armor bonus while not being considered as wearing armor. This
    >>>actually makes 'forged monks and ninjae even more attractive (except
    >>>for that Wis penalty and Cha penalty, of course), especially given the
    >>>rule (in the "Other Classes" section) stating that 'forged monks can
    >>>use Wholeness of Body to /repair/ themselves, rather than /cure/.
    >>
    >>It gets better. This from Races of Eberron, page 23, with my comments
    >>interspersed.
    >>
    >>"Monk: Monk is a good class choice for a warforged character. Monks do not
    >>normally wear armor, so the bonus inherent to the race is a great
    >>advantage. You can choose to increase that advantage with Adamantine Body
    >>or Mithral Body, but both of those feats cause you to take penalties to
    >>skills important to most monks."
    >>
    >>Note: It just said that you take penalties to skills important to monks,
    >>NOT that anything else is affected. This means that a Warforged Monk with
    >>the Adamantine Body feat (+8 armor bonus) can still be further enchanted
    >>and does not lose his AC (Monk, Wisdom) bonus, does not lose his fast
    >>movement, nor does he lose his flurry of blows ability.
    >
    >
    > I don't know whether the implication that you don't lose anything other
    > than skills is intentional, but the Adamantine Body in ECS says:
    > "Warforged characters with this feat do not gain the benefit of any
    > class feature prohibited to a character wearing heavy armor."
    >
    > Eberron Campaign Setting explicit ruling + common sense trumps Races of
    > Eberron implicit ruling, IMO.

    Not if you're a lawyer...

    - Ron ^*^
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