do ghosts leave behind corpses?

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Not just ghosts, but all incorporeal undead.
If a creature dies and becomes a shadow/wraith/specter/ghost, would
someone be able to find the corpse afterward?
Is there an official answer?

Silveraxe

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Silveraxe wrote:
> Not just ghosts, but all incorporeal undead.
> If a creature dies and becomes a shadow/wraith/specter/ghost, would
> someone be able to find the corpse afterward?
> Is there an official answer?

umm . . . are you asking if a person's corpse dissapears when they
become a ghost? No, there is still a body. For all of the above
(though a body is not required).

If you're asking if a "dead" ghost leaves behind a body, I'd say no.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

David Johnston wrote:

> Why on earth is that even in question for you?

Locked room mistery.

Silveraxe.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Anivair" <anivair@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1114798973.815080.265480@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Silveraxe wrote:
>> Not just ghosts, but all incorporeal undead.
>> If a creature dies and becomes a shadow/wraith/specter/ghost, would
>> someone be able to find the corpse afterward?
>> Is there an official answer?
>
> umm . . . are you asking if a person's corpse dissapears when they
> become a ghost? No, there is still a body. For all of the above
> (though a body is not required).
>
> If you're asking if a "dead" ghost leaves behind a body, I'd say no.

I could see that "dead" ghosts would leave behind something but it
wouldn't be a body.
Maybe just a trace of ectoplasm or an invisible marker in the astral
or etheral planes.
I get those two mixed up a lot when I'm dealing with undead. The
marker would
decay over time and eventually be gone, and so would the "slime" any
dead ghost might leave behind.
I would also rule that the "slime" would not be sufficient for any
kind of ressurection magic etc.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Silveraxe" <avidroleplayer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1114794857.054379.253320@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Not just ghosts, but all incorporeal undead.
> If a creature dies and becomes a shadow/wraith/specter/ghost, would
> someone be able to find the corpse afterward?
> Is there an official answer?

Summarized from Ghostwalk:

To become a ghost, the creature leaves behind the body and ends up
in the ethereal plane. So uncle Fred the dead wizard will leave a corpse.

When a ghost is reduced to -10 or lower hp it has suffered true death
and leaves behind a puddle of ectoplasm weighing about 1 pound.

Ectoplasm decays into nothingness in about 10 minutes when it
is not a part of a ghost etc.

Even if you kill the ghost, you can still call the spirit back from the dead
and resurrect the creature if you have the body. Having the ectoplasm is
nearly worthless in this context.

Ectoplasm has other properties that can be interesting.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On 29 Apr 2005 10:14:17 -0700, "Silveraxe" <avidroleplayer@yahoo.com>
scribed into the ether:

>Not just ghosts, but all incorporeal undead.
>If a creature dies and becomes a shadow/wraith/specter/ghost, would
>someone be able to find the corpse afterward?
>Is there an official answer?

No idea on an official answer, but I'd say yes...they are empowered souls,
and not tied to the body. The body behaves just like any other dead
body...although I'd rule that it could not become a free-willed undead
itself (skeleton/zombie yes, wight, mummy, ghoul, no).

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On 29 Apr 2005 10:14:17 -0700, "Silveraxe" <avidroleplayer@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Not just ghosts, but all incorporeal undead.
>If a creature dies and becomes a shadow/wraith/specter/ghost, would
>someone be able to find the corpse afterward?

Why on earth is that even in question for you?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"David Johnston" <rgorman@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:42724d01.9344637@news.telusplanet.net...
> On 29 Apr 2005 10:14:17 -0700, "Silveraxe"
> <avidroleplayer@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Not just ghosts, but all incorporeal undead.
>>If a creature dies and becomes a shadow/wraith/specter/ghost, would
>>someone be able to find the corpse afterward?
>
> Why on earth is that even in question for you?

Well in my game world. Yes they leave behind corpses but mostly they
are burnt
out husks that nothing can be done with until the Shadow/wraith/etc is
dealt with.
After that the bodies can be ressurected etc. True res doesn't even
bother with it.
It kills the offending undead and raises the body. True res is also
very limited in my
world and often only granted directly by a god. Three living clerics
currently have
access to true res, but they tell nobody and have only used it on a
select number of occasions.
ONce to ressurect the king who had been killed by an assassin. Once to
bring back
a young child that was killed by an illithid invader, the cleric lost
the power after that
because he selfishly chose to raise the child when other people could
have been raised
to help deal with the illithid. The child could have also been brought
back using
lesser means which showed the god that his cleric was unstable enough
that he had
to cut some of his powers away.

Mind you the god is a prick and requires that his clerics act by a
code that is probably
more restricting then any code a paladin would ever have to follow.
Breaking any
bit of the code requires a 2 week atonement, major violations often
result in
loss of powers, insanity, or an outright shunning from the rest of the
community.

 

[Matthias]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Ghosts are by definition disembodied spirits, and disembodied spirits do not
have bodies, so a ghost (or spirit) that is destroyed leaves nothing behind that
would fit the definition of a corpse (the remains of a dead creature composed of
organic matter). If there is a sort of energy that a destroyed ghost could leave
behind, that would be its remains, a kind of supernatural residue or some such,
but it wouldn't fit the above definition of a corpse. Otherwise you would need
to stretch your definition of "corpse" to include such things as the stump of a
dead tree, the chassis of a defunct car, the circuitboard of a blown
motherboard, etc.

--

Matthias (matthias_mls@yahoo.com)

"Scientists tend to do philosophy about as well as you'd expect philosophers to
do science, the difference being that at least the philosophers usually *know*
when they're out of their depth."
-Jeff Heikkinen

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 17:29:47 -0400, "Decaying Atheist"
<harker@coxdot.net> wrote:

>
>"David Johnston" <rgorman@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
>news:42724d01.9344637@news.telusplanet.net...
>> On 29 Apr 2005 10:14:17 -0700, "Silveraxe"
>> <avidroleplayer@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Not just ghosts, but all incorporeal undead.
>>>If a creature dies and becomes a shadow/wraith/specter/ghost, would
>>>someone be able to find the corpse afterward?
>>
>> Why on earth is that even in question for you?
>
>Well in my game world. Yes they leave behind corpses but mostly they
>are burnt
>out husks that nothing can be done with until the Shadow/wraith/etc is
>dealt with.

Ah. Now I see. I don't think you could raise a body if the soul
wasn't in the afterlife proper, but of course the body would still be
there.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On 29 Apr 2005 14:58:38 -0700, "Silveraxe" <avidroleplayer@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
>David Johnston wrote:
>
>> Why on earth is that even in question for you?
>
>Locked room mistery.

Yes, incorporeal undead leave bodies behind.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

David Johnston wrote:
> Decaying Atheist wrote:
> > David Johnston wrote:
> > > Silveraxe wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Not just ghosts, but all incorporeal undead.
> > > > If a creature dies and becomes a shadow/wraith/
> > > > specter/ghost, would someone be able to find
> > > > the corpse afterward?
> > >
> > > Why on earth is that even in question for you?
> >
> > Well in my game world. Yes they leave behind corpses
> > but mostly they are burnt out husks that nothing can
> > be done with until the Shadow/wraith/etc is dealt
> > with.
>
> Ah. Now I see. I don't think you could raise a body
> if the soul wasn't in the afterlife proper, but of
> course the body would still be there.

I think this is mostly a matter of aesthetics, but the RAW says, under
the Undead type description, "Not affected by /raise dead/ and
/reincarnate/ spells or abilities. /Resurrection/ and /true
resurrection/ can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead
creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming
undead."

So by the RAW, you can, but only with the strongest res. magic, and
(by the standard rules of res. magic) only if the soul *wants* to be
resurrected.

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Anivair wrote:
> Silveraxe wrote:
> >
> > Not just ghosts, but all incorporeal undead.
> > If a creature dies and becomes a shadow/wraith/
> > specter/ghost, would someone be able to find the
> > corpse afterward? Is there an official answer?
>
> umm . . . are you asking if a person's corpse
> dissapears when they become a ghost? No, there is
> still a body. For all of the above (though a body
> is not required).

Ghost, MM3.5 118 and SRD: "The original material items remain behind,
just as the ghost's physical remains do." This one's unequivocal.
The body remains physical.

Shadow, MM3.5 222 and SRD: "Any humanoid reduced to Strength 0 by a
shadow becomes a shadow under the control of its killer within 1d4
rounds." This one's a lot less clear, but I've seen flavor text
somewhere (perhaps in the otherwise shitty 3e novels) that had the
bodies melting into pools of shadow, and I kinda like the imagery of
that.

Spectre, MM3.5 232 and SRD: "Any humanoid slain by a spectre becomes a
spectre in 1d4 rounds." Similar to shadow, this one isn't clear.
Given how much more ghostly spectres are than shadows, I'm inclined to
go the other way from shadow, and leave the original's body present,
but (by the undead rules I posted elsewhere in the thread) not able to
be /raised/ (but able to be /resurrected/ if the spectre consents).

Wraith, MM3.5 and SRD: "Any humanoid slain by a wraith becomes a
wraith in 1d4 rounds. Its body remains intact and inanimate, but its
spirit is torn free from its corpse and transformed." This one's also
unequivocal: the body remains physical.

Hope this helps.

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Nikolas Landauer wrote:
> > Silveraxe wrote:
> > > Is there an official answer?
>
> Ghost, MM3.5 118 and SRD: "The original material items remain behind,
> just as the ghost's physical remains do." This one's unequivocal.
> The body remains physical.

It most definitely does help. Thanks.
I feel so silly now. I stopped reading a little before that section. I
tend to stop at Climate/Terrain whenever I read a monster entry.

Silveraxe

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Nikolas Landauer wrote:
> Anivair wrote:
> > Silveraxe wrote:
> > >
> > > Is there an official answer?
>
> Wraith, MM3.5 and SRD: "Any humanoid slain by a wraith becomes a
> wraith in 1d4 rounds. Its body remains intact and inanimate, but its
> spirit is torn free from its corpse and transformed." This one's
also
> unequivocal: the body remains physical.

Interesting. Somebody else must've thought about this too.
MM 3.0:
Create Spawn (Su): Any humanoid slain by a wraith becomes a *wight* in
1d4. Spawn are under the command of the wraith that created them and
remain enslaved until its death. They do not possess any of the
abilities they had in life.

Silveraxe.

 

[stefan]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

With non-corporeal undead, I would think the remains would have to be
<i>somewhere</i>; even if the ghost has travelled elsewhere. Granted,
the remains might have disintigrated into dust, been cremated, etc...
What is interesting to me is the question of if the remains have any
significance to the ghost --- i.e.: would it be possible to force
negotiations with an intelligent incorporeal undead by threatening to
destroy his/her mortal remains? ---- "Attack us and your bones get
burned, Mister Ghost!" Or would the ghost not care? Maybe some ghosts
would care and others wouldn't....

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Silveraxe wrote:
> Nikolas Landauer wrote:
> >
> > Wraith, MM3.5 and SRD: "Any humanoid slain by a wraith
> > becomes a wraith in 1d4 rounds. Its body remains intact
> > and inanimate, but its spirit is torn free from its
> > corpse and transformed." This one's also unequivocal:
> > the body remains physical.
>
> Interesting. Somebody else must've thought about this
> too.
> MM 3.0:
> Create Spawn (Su): Any humanoid slain by a wraith
> becomes a *wight* in 1d4.

Remember that wights are already corporeal: they *are* the body of the
creature. That said, I always thought it was weird that wraiths
didn't spawn other wraiths, so I prefer the 3.5 version.

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 14:42:43 -0400, Nikolas Landauer
<dacileva.flea@hotmail.com.tick> wrote:

>Silveraxe wrote:
>> Nikolas Landauer wrote:
>> >
>> > Wraith, MM3.5 and SRD: "Any humanoid slain by a wraith
>> > becomes a wraith in 1d4 rounds. Its body remains intact
>> > and inanimate, but its spirit is torn free from its
>> > corpse and transformed." This one's also unequivocal:
>> > the body remains physical.
>>
>> Interesting. Somebody else must've thought about this
>> too.
>> MM 3.0:
>> Create Spawn (Su): Any humanoid slain by a wraith
>> becomes a *wight* in 1d4.
>
>Remember that wights are already corporeal: they *are* the body of the
>creature. That said, I always thought it was weird that wraiths
>didn't spawn other wraiths, so I prefer the 3.5 version.

Well, I kind of like the idea of a wraith leading an army of wights.
So I guess I prefer the wight stuff.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

rgorman@telusplanet.net (David Johnston) wrote in news:4273816b.88309816
@news.telusplanet.net:

> On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 14:42:43 -0400, Nikolas Landauer
> <dacileva.flea@hotmail.com.tick> wrote:
>
>>Silveraxe wrote:
>>> Nikolas Landauer wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Wraith, MM3.5 and SRD: "Any humanoid slain by a wraith
>>> > becomes a wraith in 1d4 rounds. Its body remains intact
>>> > and inanimate, but its spirit is torn free from its
>>> > corpse and transformed." This one's also unequivocal:
>>> > the body remains physical.
>>>
>>> Interesting. Somebody else must've thought about this
>>> too.
>>> MM 3.0:
>>> Create Spawn (Su): Any humanoid slain by a wraith
>>> becomes a *wight* in 1d4.
>>
>>Remember that wights are already corporeal: they *are* the body of the
>>creature. That said, I always thought it was weird that wraiths
>>didn't spawn other wraiths, so I prefer the 3.5 version.
>
> Well, I kind of like the idea of a wraith leading an army of wights.
> So I guess I prefer the wight stuff.

Heck, split the difference. The corporeal remains of the victim rise up
as an enslaved wight, the incorporeal spirit is converted into a wraith.
Good luck, adventurers!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Chipacabra wrote:
> David Johnston wrote:
> > Nikolas Landauer wrote:
> >
> > > Remember that wights are already corporeal: they *are*
> > > the body of the creature. That said, I always thought
> > > it was weird that wraiths didn't spawn other wraiths,
> > > so I prefer the 3.5 version.
> >
> > Well, I kind of like the idea of a wraith leading an
> > army of wights. So I guess I prefer the wight stuff.
>
> Heck, split the difference. The corporeal remains of
> the victim rise up as an enslaved wight, the
> incorporeal spirit is converted into a wraith. Good
> luck, adventurers!

That's not splitting the difference. Heh heh heh... That said, I
really like this idea. (Only question: both wights and wraiths are
self-willed, though under their creator's control; which one gets to
make the decision about being res'ed, and what happens to the other?)

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 14:42:43 -0400, Nikolas Landauer
<dacileva.flea@hotmail.com.tick> scribed into the ether:

>Silveraxe wrote:
>> Nikolas Landauer wrote:
>> >
>> > Wraith, MM3.5 and SRD: "Any humanoid slain by a wraith
>> > becomes a wraith in 1d4 rounds. Its body remains intact
>> > and inanimate, but its spirit is torn free from its
>> > corpse and transformed." This one's also unequivocal:
>> > the body remains physical.
>>
>> Interesting. Somebody else must've thought about this
>> too.
>> MM 3.0:
>> Create Spawn (Su): Any humanoid slain by a wraith
>> becomes a *wight* in 1d4.
>
>Remember that wights are already corporeal: they *are* the body of the
>creature. That said, I always thought it was weird that wraiths
>didn't spawn other wraiths, so I prefer the 3.5 version.

Put it in vampire context...if the controlling wraith is slain while its
minions are still around, their spirits are unshackles from the bodies of
the wights and becomes wraiths themselves. Maybe want them to be half
strength wraiths for the first day or week so to give the players a chance.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Nikolas Landauer <dacileva.flea@hotmail.com.tick> wrote:
> Chipacabra wrote:
>> David Johnston wrote:
>> > Nikolas Landauer wrote:
>> >
>> > > Remember that wights are already corporeal: they *are*
>> > > the body of the creature. That said, I always thought
>> > > it was weird that wraiths didn't spawn other wraiths,
>> > > so I prefer the 3.5 version.
>> >
>> > Well, I kind of like the idea of a wraith leading an
>> > army of wights. So I guess I prefer the wight stuff.
>>
>> Heck, split the difference. The corporeal remains of
>> the victim rise up as an enslaved wight, the
>> incorporeal spirit is converted into a wraith. Good
>> luck, adventurers!
>
> That's not splitting the difference. Heh heh heh... That said, I
> really like this idea. (Only question: both wights and wraiths are
> self-willed, though under their creator's control; which one gets to
> make the decision about being res'ed, and what happens to the other?)

Will save? Making means you transition entirely, failing means you're
'only' a wight?

Or some other measure. Perhaps Charisma (value or check); strong enough
will causes the spirit to emerge (and the body to dust) -- or vice-versa
(a strong enough will causes the body to remain).

IOW, wraiths produce *both*, one per victim, depending on strength of
will.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Matt Frisch <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 14:42:43 -0400, Nikolas Landauer
><dacileva.flea@hotmail.com.tick> scribed into the ether:
>
>>Remember that wights are already corporeal: they *are* the body of the
>>creature. That said, I always thought it was weird that wraiths
>>didn't spawn other wraiths, so I prefer the 3.5 version.
>
> Put it in vampire context...if the controlling wraith is slain while
> its minions are still around, their spirits are unshackles from the
> bodies of the wights and becomes wraiths themselves. Maybe want them
> to be half strength wraiths for the first day or week so to give the
> players a chance.

/me likes this one.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"David Johnston" <rgorman@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:42725d4e.13517858@news.telusplanet.net...
> On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 17:29:47 -0400, "Decaying Atheist"
> <harker@coxdot.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"David Johnston" <rgorman@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
>>news:42724d01.9344637@news.telusplanet.net...
>>> On 29 Apr 2005 10:14:17 -0700, "Silveraxe"
>>> <avidroleplayer@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Not just ghosts, but all incorporeal undead.
>>>>If a creature dies and becomes a shadow/wraith/specter/ghost,
>>>>would
>>>>someone be able to find the corpse afterward?
>>>
>>> Why on earth is that even in question for you?
>>
>>Well in my game world. Yes they leave behind corpses but mostly they
>>are burnt
>>out husks that nothing can be done with until the Shadow/wraith/etc
>>is
>>dealt with.
>
> Ah. Now I see. I don't think you could raise a body if the soul
> wasn't in the afterlife proper, but of course the body would still
> be
> there.

That's my thinking although higher level magics could perform things
that mid level magic could never even dream of doing.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Matthias wrote:
> Ghosts are by definition disembodied spirits, and disembodied spirits do not
> have bodies, so a ghost (or spirit) that is destroyed leaves nothing behind that
> would fit the definition of a corpse (the remains of a dead creature composed of
> organic matter). If there is a sort of energy that a destroyed ghost could leave
> behind, that would be its remains, a kind of supernatural residue or some such,
> but it wouldn't fit the above definition of a corpse. Otherwise you would need
> to stretch your definition of "corpse" to include such things as the stump of a
> dead tree, the chassis of a defunct car, the circuitboard of a blown
> motherboard, etc.

Would an ethereal body killed leave behind something? For how long?
--
"... respect, all good works are not done by only good folk ..."
--till next time, Jameson Stalanthas Yu -x- <<poetry.dolphins-cove.com>>