Elves, Swords & Bows

[Chuck]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Elves, as a race, practice enough with certain weapons that they gain
free feats before choosing a class. The other standard races do not.
That's the Elves' racial advantage. Now let's say an Elf and a Human
both choose to train as Fighters, practicing with these same weapons
as per their class. Through this training, the Human improves and
gains feats for these weapons, matching the Elf. The Elf, however,
gains nothing, and begins at 1st level no better than the Human even
though he started with an advantage. So what happened? It seems to me
that if the Elf was already trained with these weapons prior to
Fighter training that that additional training should bring at least a
little improvement over the Human. So, my question is...would it be
unreasonable or unbalancing to give those Elves who receive additional
class training with these weapons free Weapon Focus feats in order to
retain their racial advantage? If not, what would you suggest to
balance the loss of that advantage? Thanks for your comments.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Chuck wrote:
>
> So, my question is...would it be
> unreasonable or unbalancing to give those Elves who receive additional
> class training with these weapons free Weapon Focus feats in order to
> retain their racial advantage?

And the answer is...yes, it would be (both).

-Bluto

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Chuck <fake.address@spamthis.com> wrote:
> Elves, as a race, practice enough with certain weapons that they gain
> free feats before choosing a class. The other standard races do not.
> That's the Elves' racial advantage. Now let's say an Elf and a Human
> both choose to train as Fighters, practicing with these same weapons
> as per their class. Through this training, the Human improves and
> gains feats for these weapons, matching the Elf. The Elf, however,
> gains nothing, and begins at 1st level no better than the Human even
> though he started with an advantage. So what happened? It seems to me
> that if the Elf was already trained with these weapons prior to
> Fighter training that that additional training should bring at least a
> little improvement over the Human.

> So, my question is...would it be unreasonable or unbalancing to give
> those Elves who receive additional class training with these weapons
> free Weapon Focus feats in order to retain their racial advantage?

Elves don't get just weapon proficiency. They also get

.. long life
.. +2 Dex (which incidentally works nicely with bows, rapier, shortsword)
.. -2 Con (consider this to cancel out the previous)
.. low-light vision
.. immunity to magic sleep effects
.. +2 racial bonus to saves vs. enchantment spells or effects
.. +1 automatic language

Proficiency is worth less than Weapon Focus. Elves getting proficiency
with these weapons models the training they will have received.

> If not, what would you suggest to balance the loss of that advantage?

Nothing.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Chuck wrote:

> So, my question is...would it be
> unreasonable or unbalancing to give those Elves who receive
additional
> class training with these weapons free Weapon Focus feats in order to
> retain their racial advantage? If not, what would you suggest to
> balance the loss of that advantage? Thanks for your comments.

It would be unreasonable and unbalancing, yes. Those happen to be very
_good_ weapons, and Weapon Focus is an excellent feat, one of the best.
Humans get a bonus feat. Elves should not.

Laszlo

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Consider that an elven wizard is also proficient with the long sword.
If he wanted to attack with his sword he could. A human wizard, on the
other hand, would have a 4 penalty. He has to either take a feat or
multi-class just to get that proficieny the elven wizard has.

Gerald Katz

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Chuck" <fake.address@spamthis.com> wrote in message
news:l8m5719g30vjabppen266h22e1i2im4p3g@4ax.com...
> Elves, as a race, practice enough with certain weapons that they gain
> free feats before choosing a class. The other standard races do not.
> That's the Elves' racial advantage.

I dont have my PHB in front of me, but I was under the impression the other
races , in 3.5, got certain weapon advantages- Half orcs get the Orc double
axe proficiency (normally an exotic feat), Dwarves get the dwarven waraxe
feat ( again, normally an exotic feat), gnomes get the gnomish ... what is
it called.. fighting pick I think? At any rate, they get proficiency in
uniquely racial weapons. Others might learn them, but these weapons are
part of their respective cultures.

--
Trav
hoodyhoo@kodt.net
11/Sept/01: Never forget. Never forgive.
To reply, replace 'kodt' with 'rfci'
"My Philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with
his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive
achievement his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute"
- Ayn Rand

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

hikaru wrote:
>
> I dont have my PHB in front of me, but I was under the impression the
> other races , in 3.5, got certain weapon advantages- Half orcs get the
> Orc double axe proficiency (normally an exotic feat), Dwarves get the
> dwarven waraxe feat ( again, normally an exotic feat), gnomes get the
> gnomish ... what is it called.. fighting pick I think? At any rate,
> they get proficiency in uniquely racial weapons. Others might learn
> them, but these weapons are part of their respective cultures.

That's not exactly the case.

Dwarves and gnomes have "familiarity" with those weapons. What that means is
that they treat them as martial weapons, rather than exotic - so a dwarven
sorcerer doesn't have martial proficiencies in the first place, so it doesn't
have martial proficiency with the dwarven waraxe, but a dwarven fighter does.
The same goes for the gnomish hooked hammer - but, in fact, half-orcs have no
familiarity at all.

The difference is that *all* elves have martial proficiency with the longsword,
rapier, longbow, and shortbow - an elven sorcerer can wield a longsword where
her dwarven counterpart is restricted to simple weapons.

--
Christopher Adams - Sydney, Australia
What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you
understand?
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/prestigeclasslist.html
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/templatelist.html

Perge, scelus, mihi diem perficias.

Asatoma sat gamaya, tamasoma jyotir gamaya, mrityorma anritam gamaya.