Trapped, No Escape...

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In short, the party has trapped the bad guys in the dungeons of a castle,
and the bad guys have some time to prepare to mount a defense. What
defenses do you throw at the party? The party is 5 7th level characters(2F,
1C, 1MU, 1Monk)

Several high level guys had literally nowhere else to go but down into the
lower levels of a keep. They barricaded all entrances to the lower levels
to buy themselves enough time. There are no exits to the dungeons that the
party has not found, and they have effectively barricaded ALL exits except
the one they intend to enter. Assume that the bad guys will not escape from
the dungeons by means of the other exits(basically, the party collapsed
portions of the keep on top of those entrances).

The bad guys consist of:
1. Minor Villain: Assassin henchman of major badguy(the assassin is 8th
level). Works alone most of the time.
2. Minor Villain: Chief advisor to the major badguy, a wizard, with a
staff of power and a variety of other mage related magic items(the wizard is
9th level). Rarely leaves the side of the major badguy.
3. Major Villain: The only reason he's the major villain is because he's
the guy the party hates(they had a scuffle with him a while ago, and he got
on their "to kill" list). He's the lord of the castle, an 11th level
fighter, whom the party BELIEVES to be a vampire, and the lord knows that
they think he's a vampire(a rumor specifically planted by him to lead the
party down wrong attack paths).
4+. Finally, there are a variety of living and undead minions down there.
Guards of a variety of levels, skeletons, zombies, ghouls, wights(the undead
are controlled by the wizard), etc. I have no problem placing almost any
monster down there that is able to fit in the corridors, providing there's
at least a semblance of a reason for it being there.

The catch is that the party is seeking a good and noble lord that was
kidnapped by the evil lord, and he knows that this is what they want, and
the good guy is downstairs, a prisoner of the bad guy. This good guy is
literally the only bargaining chip the bad guy has left. He will not kill
the good lord unless absolutely necessary, because once the good guy lord is
dead, he has nothing left to bargain with(should it come to the point that

There are two levels of dungeons, entirely located directly beneath the
keep. In a previous adventure, the upper level was about half searched by
the party, so they know half of the first level of the dungeon. Because of
laziness on my part, the dungeon was made by use of a random dungeon map
generator, and I won't change it(without some SPECTACULAR idea that depends
on a certain specific setup).

So, the question becomes, with hundreds of trapped mooks at their disposal,
and a few hours of prep time while the party recovers from the battle for
the capture of the castle, what devious and diabolical sneakiness and setups
would you use to drain resources from and generally piss off the party?
Assume they have "basic construction materials" for whatever plan they need
to come up with. Assume the wizard has whatever spell would make your plan
cool.

The only caveat: as soon as the party sees the main bad guy, they will
chase him down until they find and kill him, without question. So, I'd like
to keep the mainbadguy hidden for quite some time. The other two can be
used at your liesure. Heck, knowing this, an illusion of the mainbadguy
would be a great way to lure them into a devastating trap.

Any constructive ideas are appreciated.

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right

 

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1. Use invisibility or illusion to hide.
2. Use undead minions to draw the party past you.
3. Run out the way the party came in.
4. Block that entrance, sealing party inside with
minions.

 

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"decalod85" <decalod85@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1115089670.168384.264960@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> 1. Use invisibility or illusion to hide.
> 2. Use undead minions to draw the party past you.
> 3. Run out the way the party came in.
> 4. Block that entrance, sealing party inside with
> minions.

Oooh, I like it. The evil lord and his wizard advisor evade the party as
above. When they reach the entrance to the dungeon(located in a tower of
the keep), the wizard collapses the keep by using either a spell that I
don't have handy or the alpha strike(??) capability of his staff of power(i
think that's the name, I can't recall, books downstairs).

Anyways, the party feels a rumbling, and doesn't find out what it was until
they return to the surface, to find the entrance caved in. Enter a cautious
and very pissed off assassin, who has just been double crossed by his
employer and left for dead down here. He knows he can't escape without the
spell help of the party wizard and cleric, so he offers an uneasy truce. He
now wants to simply escape alive so he can kill the evil lord(he wants
revenge for this). He will stop attacking the party and assist them in
escaping(he knows about some magic items that may help, but he can't use
them(wizard stuff)), as long as they promise to let him go free unharmed
when they get out. He will then be an uneasy ally in the fight against the
evil lord, who has escaped to return to his master, the diabolical
uber-master-schemer in the campaign.

I like it.

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right

 

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Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> On Mon, 2 May 2005 23:46:09 -0400, "Jeff Goslin"
<autockr@comcast.net>
> carved upon a tablet of ether:
> > Almost everyone of any importance that they run into has heard
> > of their reputation for backstabbing when it comes to
surrenders(see below).
>
> In that case, see my other suggestion, but drop the killing of the
> captive - he'll be good for ransom anyway. Frankly, I'd be
considering
> putting the party in a no-win situation and then pointing out that,
> had they not blown away someone under flag of truce, they'd be able
to
> talk their way out, or at least negotiate their capture and later
> ransom.

I wouldn't force the party into a no-win situation.

Jeff could do something like that now, though - send a minion critter
(skeleton, zombie) under flag of truce with an unsigned message: "You
know, I can escape at any time. I would negotiate with you, had you
not proven yourselves totally without honor. Explain to me why it is
worth my while not to kill <kidnapped good lord> before I leave. This
zombie is instructed to wait 1 minute, then return with any messages
through a circuitous route filled with deadly traps, wards and glyphs."

BTW, any 9th level wizard worth his salt will have teleport available,
either memorized or as a scroll (probably both, with several scrolls
available since the evil lord is wealthy), so the evil lord should have
little problem escaping with his prisoner.
But first, if the wizard has the appropriate spells, the appropriate
illusion of the "vampire" escaping - gaseous form, bat, etc.

 

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Jeff Goslin wrote:

> Oooh, I like it. The evil lord and his wizard advisor evade the
party as
> above. When they reach the entrance to the dungeon(located in a
tower of
> the keep), the wizard collapses the keep by using either a spell that
I
> don't have handy or the alpha strike(??) capability of his staff of
power(i
> think that's the name, I can't recall, books downstairs).

Retributive strike. That involves the wizard breaking the staff and
being blasted to another plane, I believe. Use with caution.

>
> Anyways, the party feels a rumbling, and doesn't find out what it was
until
> they return to the surface, to find the entrance caved in. Enter a
cautious
> and very pissed off assassin, who has just been double crossed by his
> employer and left for dead down here. He knows he can't escape
without the
> spell help of the party wizard and cleric, so he offers an uneasy
truce. He
> now wants to simply escape alive so he can kill the evil lord(he
wants
> revenge for this). He will stop attacking the party and assist them
in
> escaping(he knows about some magic items that may help, but he can't
use
> them(wizard stuff)), as long as they promise to let him go free
unharmed
> when they get out. He will then be an uneasy ally in the fight
against the
> evil lord, who has escaped to return to his master, the diabolical
> uber-master-schemer in the campaign.

You mentioned that the evil lord is a political operator with lots of
clout, so perhaps he'll stack the deck against the party, in the event
that they manage to escape from the dungeon. After all, they are known
as a band of two-faced cutthroats; it wouldn't be difficult for the
evil lord to spread word at court that this group attacked his keep,
killed his subordinates and almost killed him with the help of foul
necromancy and a turncoat in the lord's own ranks; an assassin hired to
infiltrate his inner circle and do away with him prior to the seige. A
wall of his keep became unstable during the battle and collapsed, but
he was barely able to escape with the help of a trusted lieutenant.

He could also frame the party for the "good lord's" kidnapping and
murder. This, plus a few strings pulled and some well-placed Suggestion
and Charm spells from the wizard should make for a nasty reception for
the party once they finally dig their way to freedom. The party may be
more than a match for most soldiers and bounty hunters, but such
encounters will slow them down and force them to move cautiously while
the evil lord re-entrenches elsewhere.

--
Jay Knioum
The Mad Afro

 

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On Mon, 2 May 2005 20:30:13 -0400, "Jeff Goslin" <autockr@comcast.net>
carved upon a tablet of ether:

> The catch is that the party is seeking a good and noble lord that was
> kidnapped by the evil lord, and he knows that this is what they want, and
> the good guy is downstairs, a prisoner of the bad guy. This good guy is
> literally the only bargaining chip the bad guy has left. He will not kill
> the good lord unless absolutely necessary, because once the good guy lord is
> dead, he has nothing left to bargain with(should it come to the point that

Would it be worthwhile for him to bargain early on, through an
intermediary? Does he have reason to believe the party will keep any
deal they make?

If he can't trust them to keep a bargain, killing the guy they're
trying to rescue right in front of them might seem worth it if all is
lost, to spite them if nothing else. Depends what sort of villan he
is, of course.


--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."

 

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"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:u2id711ps0g80nr0gppaluom290ltbhd4f@4ax.com...
> Would it be worthwhile for him to bargain early on, through an
> intermediary? Does he have reason to believe the party will keep any
> deal they make?
>
> If he can't trust them to keep a bargain, killing the guy they're
> trying to rescue right in front of them might seem worth it if all is
> lost, to spite them if nothing else. Depends what sort of villan he
> is, of course.

The evil bad guy is a noble lord who has passed himself off as a fairly
standup guy (but not the most "good" guy) in a predominently good nation for
quite some time. He has powerful connections and a lot of political pull.

Unfortunately, an incident approximately 6 months ago has cemented the
reputation of the party as being "untrustworthy" when it comes to
surrenders. Almost everyone of any importance that they run into has heard
of their reputation for backstabbing when it comes to surrenders(see below).

The party is particularly blood lusting after this evil lord. One of the
few "good guys" in the campaign that the PC's really appreciate and like is
the guy that was kidnapped. They heard he was in trouble and saddled up, no
questions asked. Also, the "evil lord" pissed them off good n quick last
time they met, so they REALLY don't like the evil bad guy. So, as a DM, I
figure, combine the two, a guy the PC's really hate captures a guy they
really like. They get to save the good guy and kill the bad guy, two birds
with one stone, ya know?

The evil lord has a reason to live, and he has no qualms about using the
good guy as a human shield. He would kill him if necessary, but he's not
really that kind of guy. He wants to accomplish his goals, of course, but
it serves no purpose to him specifically to kill the good lord just out of
spite, basically he wouldn't just do it for the fun of it.

On the other hand, sending some mook to negotiate would almost certainly
result in the main badguy being discovered VERY quickly(I can almost
guarantee that the monk would slip into the shadows to follow the mook back
to his superiors).

In short, surrender is not going to be the best option for the evil lord,
unless he is in direct contact with the good lord at the time he is
negotiating.

THE SURRENDER STORY: They had just saved a village from a marauding band of
"uber-werewolves", and the surviving leader of the pack, in human form,
approached the village under a banner of truce the day following the
climactic battle. What I did not know about was that one of the PC's
surreptitiously decided to cast "Call Lightning" and zapfry the guy at the
appropriate time(he didn't tell me he had started prepping for the spell
until after the negotiations had started(he informed another player,
though)). The party's Monk decided to meet him outside the village to
discuss terms, and when the spell was ready(10 mins game time), they waited
until the monk left the guy and then zapped him. He missed his saving throw
by a mile and was pretty much turned into carbon on the spot. As a result
of this action, their reputation for killing people under a white flag was
cemented(the entire village saw what happened). The monk was kicked out of
his order(a lawful good order), his alignment changed, and he lost his
powers for quite some time, until he saved a different village from a fate
worse than death(but that's... another story....)

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right

 

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On Mon, 2 May 2005 20:30:13 -0400, "Jeff Goslin" <autockr@comcast.net>
carved upon a tablet of ether:

> Several high level guys had literally nowhere else to go but down into the
> lower levels of a keep. They barricaded all entrances to the lower levels
> to buy themselves enough time. There are no exits to the dungeons that the
> party has not found, and they have effectively barricaded ALL exits except
> the one they intend to enter. Assume that the bad guys will not escape from
> the dungeons by means of the other exits(basically, the party collapsed
> portions of the keep on top of those entrances).

I'd go with drawing the party deep into the dungeon using mooks, then
moving round their flanks and fleeing through the enterance they came
in. If the Big Bad is the murderous type, leaving the guy they were
trying to save dead at the enterance would be a nice touch.


--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."

 

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"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:39id71t4umjs6o5dd97l6c1vgeho7l52hi@4ax.com...
> I'd go with drawing the party deep into the dungeon using mooks, then
> moving round their flanks and fleeing through the enterance they came
> in. If the Big Bad is the murderous type, leaving the guy they were
> trying to save dead at the enterance would be a nice touch.

I like that idea. The only problem being that it really dissolves the
possibility of a climactic battle at the end of this adventure, because if
the main bad guy leaves, the wizard will leave with him, and the assasin
won't hang around if his employer has left. That leaves the party to mop up
the mooks.

Unless, of course, the evil lord has left a nasty surprise waiting deep in
the dungeon(some nasty monster, not a dragon). Maybe like a summoned demon
or devil or something, nothing undead though, I want to make clear after the
fact that the evil lord was NOT a vampire.

That would actually work out well, I think. The party's primary goal is to
recover the good lord. As long as they get the body back, they can raise
him at their earliest convenience, and we'd still have a very naughty bad
guy who the party *REALLY* hates for them to actively pursue and kill.
Mmmm... *rubbing hands together* me likey...

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right

 

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<madafro@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1115148884.363449.68240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Retributive strike. That involves the wizard breaking the staff and
> being blasted to another plane, I believe. Use with caution.

The whole "blasted to another plane" bit is new to 3E I believe(50/50 sent
to another plane or breaker destroyed, according to SRD), but yep, that's
the ticket.

> You mentioned that the evil lord is a political operator with lots of
> clout, so perhaps he'll stack the deck against the party, in the event
> that they manage to escape from the dungeon. After all, they are known
> as a band of two-faced cutthroats; it wouldn't be difficult for the
> evil lord to spread word at court that this group attacked his keep,
[snip]

If this were under normal circumstances, that would be PRECISELY what I
would do, but in this particular instance, there is an orc army in full-on
"roll over the nation" mode, and he wants to do the whole "right hand of the
devil vs being flattened when he strolls thru" kind of thing. He's a
turncoat who has played his card to join the other side, knowing that the
nation in question is about to be utterly annihilated. Basically, there
won't be a court left to bitch to at the end of the day...

> He could also frame the party for the "good lord's" kidnapping and
> murder. This, plus a few strings pulled and some well-placed Suggestion
> and Charm spells from the wizard should make for a nasty reception for
> the party once they finally dig their way to freedom. The party may be
> more than a match for most soldiers and bounty hunters, but such
> encounters will slow them down and force them to move cautiously while
> the evil lord re-entrenches elsewhere.

Again, all great ideas, but this happens to be the first stage of a
continent consuming war, most specifically the nation being attacked right
now simply does not have the organized defense to withstand an actual war.
The conclusion of this stage is almost foregone at this point. The REAL war
will actually start *AFTER* they roll over this nation, and try to take on
the organized warrior culture to the north of this nation.

Basically, you can think of what is happening to this nation as what
happened to Poland in the early stages of WW2. The polish tried to take
cavalry up against the Blitzkrieg, it didn't work out so well.

The nation to the north is modelled somewhat after a combination of Spartan
warriors, Viking warriors, and of all things, Klingon warriors. Very
organized, very warrior centered, huge standing army(compared to the size of
the nation), basically one very tough nut to crack. That's when we're going
to have huge epic battles with casualties in the tens of thousands.

I envision that at some point, the evil lord is going to take command of an
orc army and lead it into battle. At that point, the PC's will conveniently
find themselves in a situation to do something about it(like special forces
type stuff, espionage, sabotage, etc, oh gee wouldja lookit that, we're a
stones throw away from the evil lord, let's go kill him!). Something like
that anyways.

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right

 

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Rupert Boleyn wrote:

> On Mon, 2 May 2005 20:30:13 -0400, "Jeff Goslin" <autockr@comcast.net>
> carved upon a tablet of ether:
>
>
>>Several high level guys had literally nowhere else to go but down into the
>>lower levels of a keep. They barricaded all entrances to the lower levels
>>to buy themselves enough time. There are no exits to the dungeons that the
>>party has not found, and they have effectively barricaded ALL exits except
>>the one they intend to enter. Assume that the bad guys will not escape from
>>the dungeons by means of the other exits(basically, the party collapsed
>>portions of the keep on top of those entrances).
>
>
> I'd go with drawing the party deep into the dungeon using mooks, then
> moving round their flanks and fleeing through the enterance they came
> in. If the Big Bad is the murderous type, leaving the guy they were
> trying to save dead at the enterance would be a nice touch.

Bingo. Although I'd have Big Bad set off a cave-in at the entrance
right before leaving, to seal the party in and turn the tables on them.
Heh.

- Ron ^*^

 

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madafro@sbcglobal.net wrote:

> Jeff Goslin wrote:
>
>
>>Oooh, I like it. The evil lord and his wizard advisor evade the
>
> party as
>
>>above. When they reach the entrance to the dungeon(located in a
>
> tower of
>
>>the keep), the wizard collapses the keep by using either a spell that
>
> I
>
>>don't have handy or the alpha strike(??) capability of his staff of
>
> power(i
>
>>think that's the name, I can't recall, books downstairs).
>
>
> Retributive strike. That involves the wizard breaking the staff and
> being blasted to another plane, I believe. Use with caution.
>
>
>>Anyways, the party feels a rumbling, and doesn't find out what it was
>
> until
>
>>they return to the surface, to find the entrance caved in. Enter a
>
> cautious
>
>>and very pissed off assassin, who has just been double crossed by his
>>employer and left for dead down here. He knows he can't escape
>
> without the
>
>>spell help of the party wizard and cleric, so he offers an uneasy
>
> truce. He
>
>>now wants to simply escape alive so he can kill the evil lord(he
>
> wants
>
>>revenge for this). He will stop attacking the party and assist them
>
> in
>
>>escaping(he knows about some magic items that may help, but he can't
>
> use
>
>>them(wizard stuff)), as long as they promise to let him go free
>
> unharmed
>
>>when they get out. He will then be an uneasy ally in the fight
>
> against the
>
>>evil lord, who has escaped to return to his master, the diabolical
>>uber-master-schemer in the campaign.
>
>
> You mentioned that the evil lord is a political operator with lots of
> clout, so perhaps he'll stack the deck against the party, in the event
> that they manage to escape from the dungeon. After all, they are known
> as a band of two-faced cutthroats; it wouldn't be difficult for the
> evil lord to spread word at court that this group attacked his keep,
> killed his subordinates and almost killed him with the help of foul
> necromancy and a turncoat in the lord's own ranks; an assassin hired to
> infiltrate his inner circle and do away with him prior to the seige. A
> wall of his keep became unstable during the battle and collapsed, but
> he was barely able to escape with the help of a trusted lieutenant.
>
> He could also frame the party for the "good lord's" kidnapping and
> murder.

Oh, now that IS Evil!


> This, plus a few strings pulled and some well-placed Suggestion
> and Charm spells from the wizard should make for a nasty reception for
> the party once they finally dig their way to freedom. The party may be
> more than a match for most soldiers and bounty hunters, but such
> encounters will slow them down and force them to move cautiously while
> the evil lord re-entrenches elsewhere.

Also, such encounters may force them to *kill* innocent guardsmen, which
will *actually* make them into villains and enemies of the state.

Jay, you are positively diabolical! You could work for the Family Court
system!

- Ron ^*^

 

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On Mon, 2 May 2005 23:46:09 -0400, "Jeff Goslin" <autockr@comcast.net>
carved upon a tablet of ether:

> The evil bad guy is a noble lord who has passed himself off as a fairly
> standup guy (but not the most "good" guy) in a predominently good nation for
> quite some time. He has powerful connections and a lot of political pull.
>
> Unfortunately, an incident approximately 6 months ago has cemented the
> reputation of the party as being "untrustworthy" when it comes to
> surrenders. Almost everyone of any importance that they run into has heard
> of their reputation for backstabbing when it comes to surrenders(see below).

In that case, see my other suggestion, but drop the killing of the
captive - he'll be good for ransom anyway. Frankly, I'd be considering
putting the party in a no-win situation and then pointing out that,
had they not blown away someone under flag of truce, they'd be able to
talk their way out, or at least negotiate their capture and later
ransom.


--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."

 

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On Tue, 3 May 2005 00:05:48 -0400, "Jeff Goslin" <autockr@comcast.net>
carved upon a tablet of ether:

> Anyways, the party feels a rumbling, and doesn't find out what it was until
> they return to the surface, to find the entrance caved in. Enter a cautious
> and very pissed off assassin, who has just been double crossed by his
> employer and left for dead down here. He knows he can't escape without the
> spell help of the party wizard and cleric, so he offers an uneasy truce. He
> now wants to simply escape alive so he can kill the evil lord(he wants
> revenge for this). He will stop attacking the party and assist them in
> escaping(he knows about some magic items that may help, but he can't use
> them(wizard stuff)), as long as they promise to let him go free unharmed
> when they get out. He will then be an uneasy ally in the fight against the
> evil lord, who has escaped to return to his master, the diabolical
> uber-master-schemer in the campaign.

Does the assassin know of the party's rep for killing people under
truce? If he does this might not fly.


--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."

 

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"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:6qne71p9aaaicdir19pg9sf1o6etc8v3dd@4ax.com...
> Does the assassin know of the party's rep for killing people under
> truce? If he does this might not fly.

True, given the party's reputation, which he would be aware of for sure, he
probably would be pretty hesitant to approach them, even while trapped. (On
a side note, their "reputation" is comprised of one and only one incident,
even though that one incident was pretty impressive for it's treachery, they
are suffering from the same effect that effectively snuffed out Howard
Dean's presidential campaign "YEEEEHAAW!")

Which is why I think that his knowledge might be the thing that turns him
over. The thinking goes like this: I don't think the party would be able
to figure a way out of a trapped in a dungeon situation with the spells at
their disposal and the magic they CURRENTLY have. They would try for a
while, and if they came up with something, great, the dungeon is open and
everyone can escape, no allies required. But if they CAN'T figure it out...

The assassin is aware that the wizard has a bunch of "wizard only"
components in his laboratory that are quite explosively powerful, but the
assassin doesn't know how to use them. The party spends a bunch of time
trying in vain to escape from the place, and when it seems like they are
about to give up, the assassin approaches cautiously and offers the truce.
He knows he won't escape alive if he doesn't enlist their aid, and the party
thinks that they are out of options, so may consider at least hearing the
guy out. He makes a deal where he'll show them to some potential escape
components if they promise that no harm will befall him at least until they
reach the surface. He takes them to the hidden and very well trapped
laboratory, lets them in without damage, etc, shows them the components,
points them in the right direction, and suggests that the wizard tinker
around a bit, maybe he can find some chemicals/whatever that can blow open a
hole or something.

Theoretically, this could be the first step on the path to reversing their
largely undeserved reputation, assuming they let the assassin go on his way
when they reach the surface. He may say to his peers "you know, those guys
aren't so bad, really. They kept their word to me, so there is that..."

Thoughts?

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right

 

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On Tue, 03 May 2005 19:29:40 -0400, Jeff Goslin wrote:

> <alordofchaos@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1115124527.375287.160460@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> Jeff could do something like that now, though - send a minion critter
>> (skeleton, zombie) under flag of truce with an unsigned message: "You
>> know, I can escape at any time. I would negotiate with you, had you
>> not proven yourselves totally without honor. Explain to me why it is
>> worth my while not to kill <kidnapped good lord> before I leave. This
>> zombie is instructed to wait 1 minute, then return with any messages
>> through a circuitous route filled with deadly traps, wards and glyphs."
>
> Not a big fan of that route, personally. I know my guys, they would follow
> the minion without hesitation. That means that I have to actually set up a
> place that has just a utter ASSLOAD of traps in it that a zombie will be
> able to pass by without setting off, that the party definitely WOULD set
> off. That rules out almost everything mechanical. A smart party is able to
> set off magical traps from afar without much difficulty(monster summoning
> being the prime one for that). So it's not so good to say "you'll get
> killed by my deathtraps" when they would easily be able to avoid damage from
> most any trap that could be set.

Solution: Mindless minion walks back into dungeon, enters guardroom,
drops message through murder hole. Then either stops, or continues on
past a 'one way door' trap.

This works even better if you can make it hard to spot the drop. Perhaps
by using a second minion and a mage hand spell, or having it just after a
turn.

--
Phoenix

 

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Werebat wrote:

> Jay, you are positively diabolical! You could work for the Family
Court
> system!

<shudder>

Do you have a job? NO!
Do you have any prospects? NO!
Do you have a clean drug record? HELL NO!

Well, you can't finance a used car, but we'll give you your kids back!
Come on down to Family Court! Remember: you CAN have your crack and
your children, too!

--
Jay Knioum
The Mad Afro

 

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Jeff Goslin wrote:
> <madafro@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:1115148884.363449.68240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > Retributive strike. That involves the wizard breaking the staff and
> > being blasted to another plane, I believe. Use with caution.
>
> The whole "blasted to another plane" bit is new to 3E I believe(50/50
sent
> to another plane or breaker destroyed, according to SRD), but yep,
that's
> the ticket.

I seem to remember the rule first appearing in 1e, but I don't have any
of those books anymore.

> > You mentioned that the evil lord is a political operator with lots
of
> > clout, so perhaps he'll stack the deck against the party, in the
event
> > that they manage to escape from the dungeon. After all, they are
known
> > as a band of two-faced cutthroats; it wouldn't be difficult for the
> > evil lord to spread word at court that this group attacked his
keep,
> [snip]
>
> If this were under normal circumstances, that would be PRECISELY what
I
> would do, but in this particular instance, there is an orc army in
full-on
> "roll over the nation" mode, and he wants to do the whole "right hand
of the
> devil vs being flattened when he strolls thru" kind of thing. He's a
> turncoat who has played his card to join the other side, knowing that
the
> nation in question is about to be utterly annihilated. Basically,
there
> won't be a court left to bitch to at the end of the day...

Ah, I see. Well, odds are still good that this evil lord isn't the type
to just assume the party's demise and forget about them. He might try
to keep an eye on the party after his escape; watch and see if they dig
themselves out. Once they do, he can keep tabs on them and gauge
whether or not they would better serve his ambitions if they remain
alive, or if they were destroyed. If the former, he could actually help
them along the way from afar by dropping pieces of information in their
laps and guiding them along a direction of his choosing.

After all, what better use for a party of opportunistic cutthroats than
to have them take out one's boss and create a power vacuum? Of course,
he could always just tap his BBEG boss on the shoulder and tell him
that the PCs are still alive, whereupon the BBEG could crush them like
bugs, but that's not as dramatic, is it?

[snip]

> I envision that at some point, the evil lord is going to take command
of an
> orc army and lead it into battle. At that point, the PC's will
conveniently
> find themselves in a situation to do something about it(like special
forces
> type stuff, espionage, sabotage, etc, oh gee wouldja lookit that,
we're a
> stones throw away from the evil lord, let's go kill him!). Something
like
> that anyways.

Although he's a Fighter, I imagine this evil lord is more at home
pulling strings and hiding behind his minions than riding at the head
of an army. Perhaps he has a body-double posing as himself, and
through a network of operatives he has built up, he maneuvers the party
to a location where they would be strongly tempted to kill the "evil
lord" during the battle. Once he's "dead," the evil lord can hide out
and emerge when the invasion is over, free to pursue his plans
incognito without being under the BBEG's thumb. Of course, his own
loyal minions will get "slain" in that battle, as well; a lead-up to
the big coup attempt.

I just think it would be fun if this evil lord turned out to be the
real villain in all this, by virtue of basically having the BBEG
assassinated by the party so he could steal power.

--
Jay Knioum
The Mad Afro

 

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Rick Pikul wrote:

> Solution: Mindless minion walks back into dungeon, enters
guardroom,
> drops message through murder hole. Then either stops, or continues
on
> past a 'one way door' trap.
>
> This works even better if you can make it hard to spot the drop.
Perhaps
> by using a second minion and a mage hand spell, or having it just
after a
> turn.

Having Undead minions means never having to ask, "what should I use to
trigger my trap". Just as an example the Trigger can be a presure plate

that sets the trap off when the minion steps OFF the plate! At which
point it releases the poison gas into the room, which the minion
ignores
since he doesn't breath and is immune to poison.

Traps (like land mines) are ALWAYS best when covered by troops, and
since
you have the troops there anyway there is no reason NOT to use command
detonated traps.

No need for one way doors or complicated methods to deactivate, the
minion is better than any of that would ever be, and his very existance
provides a distraction to stop the target from doing anything about the
trap.

DougL

 

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On Tue, 3 May 2005 19:19:12 -0400, "Jeff Goslin" <autockr@comcast.net>
carved upon a tablet of ether:

> The assassin is aware that the wizard has a bunch of "wizard only"
> components in his laboratory that are quite explosively powerful, but the
> assassin doesn't know how to use them. The party spends a bunch of time
> trying in vain to escape from the place, and when it seems like they are
> about to give up, the assassin approaches cautiously and offers the truce.
> He knows he won't escape alive if he doesn't enlist their aid, and the party
> thinks that they are out of options, so may consider at least hearing the
> guy out. He makes a deal where he'll show them to some potential escape
> components if they promise that no harm will befall him at least until they
> reach the surface. He takes them to the hidden and very well trapped
> laboratory, lets them in without damage, etc, shows them the components,
> points them in the right direction, and suggests that the wizard tinker
> around a bit, maybe he can find some chemicals/whatever that can blow open a
> hole or something.
>
> Theoretically, this could be the first step on the path to reversing their
> largely undeserved reputation, assuming they let the assassin go on his way
> when they reach the surface. He may say to his peers "you know, those guys
> aren't so bad, really. They kept their word to me, so there is that..."
>
> Thoughts?

Seems workable, and it's a bit of a test of the PCs, too - if they
actually bother to listen, and then keep their word, they'll have a
better rep. If they shoot first, they'll have to find and enter the
lab on their own, getting hurt in the process, and if they listen and
then backstab the assassin there's a reasonable chance someone will
find out and their poor rep will spread.


--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."

 

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"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:ns4g715etcasprlnoqqg1flce2atka39h7@4ax.com...
> Seems workable, and it's a bit of a test of the PCs, too - if they
> actually bother to listen, and then keep their word, they'll have a
> better rep. If they shoot first, they'll have to find and enter the
> lab on their own, getting hurt in the process, and if they listen and
> then backstab the assassin there's a reasonable chance someone will
> find out and their poor rep will spread.

Plus which, if I go the whole "volitile chemicals in the wizard's lab"
route, I don't have to blow up the guy's staff of power to collapse the
keep. I can just use the same basic chemicals to both bring down the keep
and blow a hole in the ground once it's collapsed.

Hrm. One issue, only a minor one. The wizard's laboratory is the room
directly before his private quarters. The wizard's private quarters is
reached by any of 4 doors that lead from the lab to a set of corridors that
reach his private quarters. Currently, I have a rather cool trap that will
blow up the lab if the doors to his private chambers are opened without a
password(that the party won't be immediately privy to). Fire trap and
explosive runes and glyphs of warding are on each door, and setting one off
will set off all 4 doors(for an area of effect that will likely capture
every party member). The problem is that such a huge explosion is likely to
catch the lab components on fire as well, and boom, end of laboratory. I
can place some components in other places though, I suppose. There are
several rooms designated as "storage", I can put some of the components in
those rooms as well. Ok, problem solved.

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right

 

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On Tue, 3 May 2005 19:43:31 -0400, "Jeff Goslin" <autockr@comcast.net>
carved upon a tablet of ether:

> <madafro@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:1115148884.363449.68240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > Retributive strike. That involves the wizard breaking the staff and
> > being blasted to another plane, I believe. Use with caution.
>
> The whole "blasted to another plane" bit is new to 3E I believe(50/50 sent
> to another plane or breaker destroyed, according to SRD), but yep, that's
> the ticket.

It predates 3e, though I'm not sure where it first appeared (xD&D,
perhaps?)


--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."

 

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"Werebat" <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote in message
news:XAVde.5158$aB.2047@lakeread03...
> How about traps that drop an assload of rubble or a stone block out of
> the ceiling and separate the party? Half of them outside, half of them
> inside with a host of badguys?

I'm not a big fan of those from a metagame perspective. Personal
preference, but I hate dealing with the party as multiple groups rather than
one big group. I know that splitting the party would be pretty deadly,
given the abilities that the wizard brings to any battle, but I find it a
pain in the ass to deal with the party when they split up. Therefore, I
don't like intentionally splitting them up(if they split up on their own,
there's not much I can do about it, but thankfully they don't do that
often). Not very realistic, I know, but hey, why make DMing more of a pain
in the ass than it has to be?

> I think if you know the party well enough that you can predict what they
> will do, you should have intelligent villains exploit their standard
> strategy. Hell, if the bigbadguy knows they will skulk after a zombie
> minion, have him send the minion with a ruse akin to the one above with
> orders for said minion to lead them through an unused wing of the
> dungeon riddled with annoying traps that they will be able to blow
> through by wasting time and resources. While they are busy doing so,
> the bigbadguy and his minions are busy slipping out the entrance with
> their captive. That'll learn 'em.

Well, I like the concept, and I might actually use the ruse(if I am going to
let the evil lord escape), in fact I probably will, because it is a good
idea in general, not just a good idea for their tactics. The thing to
remember is that I know what the party will do, but that doesn't mean that
the evil lord knows what they will do. He's met them only once or twice,
and would only know their reputation. He's a smart guy, of course, like all
decent "bigbadguys" are, so he'll do some pretty smart stuff to trick em up,
but he won't know the specifics of their tactics.

Basically, intelligent enemies do generally intelligent things unless they
have specific knowledge of typical tactics that the party uses, in which
case they apply that knowledge to their activities. In this case, the
intelligent enemy doesn't know much about the typical tactics, so he can
only do "generally intelligent" stuff.

> is the best at 3rd level. The best way to do this is without illusions,
> though (one Will save and the gig is up).

That's one of the main reasons why I don't use illusions, I hate the fact
that one saving throw can piss away the whole deal, and then it's all "I
disbelieve", "I disbelieve", "I disbelieve", all friggin game after that.

> I have yet to see a party that didn't fall for any reasonably-planned
> deception of the part of an NPC. The trick is to make the deception
> seem reasonably plausible.

The thing is, if the wizard and the evil lord escape, a rumor started about
him being a vampire will essentially be wasted. If they walk out, it's
likely to still be daylight outside, so he would be a crispy critter if he
went outside at high noon(if he were a vampire), so that is a big clue that
he isn't a vampire, and the party fell for that rumor so totally and
completely that it's not even funny, and it will be great to have them waste
an absolute assload of time flinging holy water at the evil lord(who would
make a big deal out of the whole "it burrrrrrns! it BUUUURNS!!" bit just
for show). They could teleport out right under the noses of the party. I
could have him kill the good lord and then have the two of them teleport
away, and say that the entrance is trapped to collapse. That sounds like a
plan...

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right

 

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<madafro@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1115227055.593589.275230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Ah, I see. Well, odds are still good that this evil lord isn't the type
> to just assume the party's demise and forget about them.

BAH! What kind of Bond movies are *YOU* watching?

He might try
> to keep an eye on the party after his escape; watch and see if they dig
> themselves out. Once they do, he can keep tabs on them and gauge
> whether or not they would better serve his ambitions if they remain
> alive, or if they were destroyed. If the former, he could actually help
> them along the way from afar by dropping pieces of information in their
> laps and guiding them along a direction of his choosing.
>
> After all, what better use for a party of opportunistic cutthroats than
> to have them take out one's boss and create a power vacuum? Of course,
> he could always just tap his BBEG boss on the shoulder and tell him
> that the PCs are still alive, whereupon the BBEG could crush them like
> bugs, but that's not as dramatic, is it?

I like the idea, but in this particular instance, there are actually several
layers of power between this evil lord and "the ultimate BBEG". Although,
he could probably take out his IMMEDIATE "supervisor" without too much
problem, but I don't see what he'd gain from that, from a global
perspective, I mean, sure, he'd move up a notch in the BBEG org chart, but
aside from that, there's not much to gain.

But, the one thing I imagine is that he will do is to drop those hints to
place them where he wants them to be for a battle when the time comes.

> Although he's a Fighter, I imagine this evil lord is more at home
> pulling strings and hiding behind his minions than riding at the head
> of an army.

Well, I think "riding at the head of an army" is overstating what would
happen. You're right, he's a lead from the rear kind of guy, which is why I
would use espionage scenarios to try to get the party close to the rear of
the army so they might be able to take on the guy in a sneak attack.

Perhaps he has a body-double posing as himself, and
> through a network of operatives he has built up, he maneuvers the party
> to a location where they would be strongly tempted to kill the "evil
> lord" during the battle. Once he's "dead," the evil lord can hide out
> and emerge when the invasion is over, free to pursue his plans
> incognito without being under the BBEG's thumb. Of course, his own
> loyal minions will get "slain" in that battle, as well; a lead-up to
> the big coup attempt.

Ok, I like the concept... but... What are his "plans"? The ultimate end
result of this war will be a barren wasteland of death and destruction, not
exactly much to lay claim to after it's over, except for control of the
winning side, which is why he would try to get a leadership position inside
the army that is doing the killing. Other than that, knowing that much of
the area will be destroyed in the war, what can this guy do? If he is
believed dead by everyone that matters, yes, that frees him up to accomplish
his goals... but... what does he want to do with that anonymity?

> I just think it would be fun if this evil lord turned out to be the
> real villain in all this, by virtue of basically having the BBEG
> assassinated by the party so he could steal power.

Well, that's not going to happen, mainly because the ultimate BBEG is so far
removed from contact with this guy that it would be nigh impossible to
actually reach him. Even the "penultimate BBEG" would be a HUGE stretch for
this guy to take out.

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right

 

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madafro@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> Werebat wrote:
>
>
>>Jay, you are positively diabolical! You could work for the Family
>
> Court
>
>>system!
>
>
> <shudder>
>
> Do you have a job? NO!
> Do you have any prospects? NO!
> Do you have a clean drug record? HELL NO!
>
> Well, you can't finance a used car, but we'll give you your kids back!
> Come on down to Family Court! Remember: you CAN have your crack and
> your children, too!

My own personal story involves extortion to the tune of $500, which is
still being worked out (and will probably end up involving lawyers
unless I choose to let it drop).

Essentially, CSE fabricated an "arrearage" on child support (for a child
I have in my care 50% of the time, but that's another story) out of thin
air, and served me papers threatening to revoke my license to drive (and
ultimately my passport and license to teach, too, which would leave me
jobless) unless I paid. I had two weeks to pay, less time that it would
take to sort out, so I just paid the money. About a year later, I have
been told by two officials at CSE that they have no idea where the
arrearage came from, and that it was probably a "mistake" -- but that I
can't get the money back.

Well, one fellow told me that if I kept very good records for the next
13 years, I could use them to get the money back once my son turns 19.
He refused to sign a formal statement to this effect, though. I'm
willing to bet he will be retired by the time 13 years are up. :^/

Another told me I should get the money back, and forwarded the info to
his superior. I have yet to hear from either one of them, despite
several calls.

Any way you slice it, a state department fabricating owed money and
threatening to take away your license, job, and ability to travel if you
don't pay within two weeks (and yes, they have the ability to do this),
then refusing to give the money back when even they themselves admit
that it wasn't really owed, is practicing extortion. Lawful Evil.

(To understand why it is Lawful Evil one needs to understand that for
every dollar the state collects in Child Support, they get a percentage
back from the Federal Government. Ergo, the more they award, and the
more they collect, the more kickback they get from the Federal
Government. Which goes a long way towards explaining why I am ordered
to pay 90% of the standard CS award, for a child who I have in my care
50% of the time)

And that's really just the tip of the iceberg. The complete story is so
long and convoluted that it starts to sound fabricated itself -- which I
think is the intent of the Powers That Be in the Family Court / Welfare
/ CSE triat.

The whole thing reminds me just a little too much of the movie "Brazil".

- Ron ^*^