Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (
More info?)
ranpoirier@cox.net wrote:
> >>As an aside, casting Message itself involves a verbal component. Which
> >>means, if memory serves, that you need to be able to speak in a
> >>reasonably clear, firm voice -- it may be just a matter of personal
> >>taste, but I'm not so sure I'd allow spellcasters to just mumble a
> >>few words under their breath for fear of being overheard and call
> >>*that* a suitable 'verbal component'. Not without the Silent Spell
> >>feat, anyway.
> >
> > As an aside to your aside, I agree with your point about verbal
> > components in general, but I think it's quite silly that message has a
> > verbal component.
> >
> > It's almost like one of those funny spells from dragon, "detect self"
> > and such. "You can transmit a message to your allies. Component:
> > speaking in a clear, firm voice." :/
>
> Well, it lasts for 10 minutes a level. I think the intent of the spell
> is to allow the party proper to keep in contact with the party scout two
> rooms ahead,
Fair enough, that's a good use.
> or to allow the party to "talk private for a minute" when
> dealing with an NPC.
IME, when a situation like this arises, the person with message hadn't
remembered to cast it in the last 10 min./level.
There's a wu jen spell from OA (secret signs, I think?) that's better
for this: IIRC, the only component is somatic, a relatively unobtrusive
gesture which the target interprets as intended, a message of a sentence
or three. Of course, with this, both characters need the spell if they
want two way communication...
Maybe I misspoke. Message can be rather useful even with a V component.
> What the player is doing is turning it into a spell that allows him to
> keep Inspire Courage running for 80 minutes or more while the party is
> exploring a dungeon (+2 to all skill checks, mind you, is nothing to
> sneeze at while dungeon delving) without fear of anyone hearing.
Inspire courage doesn't give the bonus to skill checks, only to
attack/damage and vs. charm and fear. Inspire competence gives +2 to
skill checks, and that's only to one character, one skill, and you can't
keep it up forever (without spending additional music uses).
Another aside: isn't inspire competence rather weak compared to other
bardic music? Sure, there are situations when inspire competence can be
a lifesaver, but it seems really limited compared to other stuff the
bard can do with his music uses.
> Of course he has to burn a 0-level spell AND a bardic music use per day
> in order to do this. I'm not sure that it's overpowered as is, although
> almost certainly not the intent of the spell. What worries me is, as
> one poster already pointed out, potential problems when the combo is
> used with other spells and spell effects once it is officially allowed.
> Remember the Simpsons episode with the School House Rock spoof "I'm an
> Amendment to the Constitution"? "Door's open, boys!" :^)
>
> The hammer has to come down when the bard starts using Message to allow
> the party Evoker to cast Sonic Bolts that don't make much noise, for
> example.
You could allow it, and rule that since all message does is make your
whispers audible to the target, you still "must be able to speak in a
strong voice" to cast the other spell. So message might carry a
whispered suggestion or command, but you'd still need to speak out loud
to cast the suggestion or command itself.
As for sonic evocations, I'd definitely rule that you can't "whisper" a
sonic bolt so that only the target of the message hears it and takes
damage. It's the spell that's making the noise, not the caster, right?
--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr
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