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Spell Knowledge Rods

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Anonymous
May 3, 2005 10:49:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Spell knowledge rods hold the essence of a spell formula. A spell
knowledge rod adds the rod's spell to the wielder's spells known and
allows him to cast it spontaneously by "losing" a prepared spell of
equal or higher level from the same spell list. (Clerics may lose a
prepared domain spell in order to cast a rod's spell from the same
domain list. They may not lose prepared domain spells in order to cast
spells from the cleric spell list, and vice versa.) To use a spell
knowledge rod, a character must have the rod's spell on his spell list.

The rod's market price is 1,000 gp times the rod's spell level squared.
Additional spells add 750 gp x spell level squared to the market price.
The rod's caster level is usually the minimum caster level needed to
cast the highest-level spell or 9th level, whichever is higher. (The
spells cast with the rod use the caster's level, not the rod's level.)
Creating a spell knowledge rod requires the Craft Rod feat.

Power knowledge rods hold the essence of a psionic power. A power
knowledge rod adds the rod's power to the wielder's powers known. To use
a power knowledge rod, a character must have a power point reserve. (The
rod's power need not be on the character's power list.) Creating a power
knowledge rod requires the Craft Universal Item feat.

/Dowsing rod/: Adds /locate object/ and /detect magic/ to the wielder's
spells known and allows him to cast them spontaneously. CL 9th; Craft
Rod, /locate object/, /detect magic/; Price 4,750 gp.

/Dowsing rod, psionic/: Adds /detect psionics/ to the wielder's power
list and powers known. CL 1st; Craft Universal Item; Price 1,000 gp.

[Comments? Suggestions? The basic idea here is an item similar to the
pearl of power, except that it provides the "spell" half of the casting
instead of the "slot" half. It gives extra flexibility to spontaneous
casters (by adding more spells known) and preparation casters (by
allowing cleric-style spontaneous casting). I'm not sure about the
price; I used the same pricing as pearls of power, since the item is
better than a wand (x750 gp) but not as good as a command-word item
(x1,800 gp).]
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd

More about : spell knowledge rods

Anonymous
May 3, 2005 10:49:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd W. Szonye wrote:
> Spell knowledge rods hold the essence of a spell formula. A spell
> knowledge rod adds the rod's spell to the wielder's spells known and
> allows him to cast it spontaneously by "losing" a prepared spell of
> equal or higher level from the same spell list. (Clerics may lose a
> prepared domain spell in order to cast a rod's spell from the same
> domain list. They may not lose prepared domain spells in order to
cast
> spells from the cleric spell list, and vice versa.) To use a spell
> knowledge rod, a character must have the rod's spell on his spell
list.

Nice general idea. I would prefer that formulaic casters NOT be able
to use a prepared spell with one of these, it stomps on one of the
main advantages of the spontanious types. Besides, only formulaic types
can use PoP, it seems somehow poetic to make an only spontanious item.

But this is a matter of taste rather than ballance. A Wizard makes
a poor sorcerer even with these items.

Is there a reason these are rods rather than some other item type
other than the fact that rods are underused?

> The rod's market price is 1,000 gp times the rod's spell level
squared.
> Additional spells add 750 gp x spell level squared to the market
price.

It's obvious, but clarify that the high priced spell must be the
highest level spell in the rod.

> The rod's caster level is usually the minimum caster level needed to
> cast the highest-level spell or 9th level, whichever is higher. (The
> spells cast with the rod use the caster's level, not the rod's
level.)
> Creating a spell knowledge rod requires the Craft Rod feat.
>
> Power knowledge rods hold the essence of a psionic power. A power
> knowledge rod adds the rod's power to the wielder's powers known. To
use
> a power knowledge rod, a character must have a power point reserve.
(The
> rod's power need not be on the character's power list.) Creating a
power
> knowledge rod requires the Craft Universal Item feat.

I think it needs to be on the user's list given that it uses his
manifester level, otherwise this is too good a deal for the Psychic
Warrior types. You also may need to clarify that the caster must
have a manifester level sufficient to manifest the power in question.

As you have it written a Ftr19/PsyWar1 character with a powerstone
could argue that he can manifest level 9 powers. (He couldn't, the
limit on Powerpoints spent at one time would stop him, but I am sure
I can come up with some obscene problem based on prestige classes if
I really care to.)

DougL
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 3:08:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd W. Szonye wrote:
>> Spell knowledge rods hold the essence of a spell formula. A spell
>> knowledge rod adds the rod's spell to the wielder's spells known and
>> allows him to cast it spontaneously by "losing" a prepared spell of
>> equal or higher level from the same spell list. (Clerics may lose a
>> prepared domain spell in order to cast a rod's spell from the same
>> domain list. They may not lose prepared domain spells in order to
>> cast spells from the cleric spell list, and vice versa.) To use a
>> spell knowledge rod, a character must have the rod's spell on his
>> spell list.

DougL wrote:
> Nice general idea.

Thanks! By the way, I wonder whether any sources have already defined
something like this. It seems like such an obvious idea, after the fact
anyway. I came up with it because of an issue in my new campaign: We
have a psion who lacks /detect psionics/, and a bunch of spellcasters
who lack Psicraft, which means the group is always fumbling around when
it comes to psionic items. I thought an item that grants Expanded
Knowledge would be handy, and then translated the idea to magic.

> I would prefer that formulaic casters NOT be able to use a prepared
> spell with one of these, it stomps on one of the main advantages of
> the spontanious types.

Yeah, I'm not too sure about that part. It was originally only going to
grant an extra known spell. Here's my reasoning:

Scrolls, wands, and staffs give a sorcerer access to a broader selection
of spells, which steps on wizards' toes a bit. They give wizards more
spell capacity, which steps on sorcerers' toes a bit.

The spell knowledge rods also let sorcerers and wizards invade each
other's niches a bit. Like the spell-storage items, they give sorcerers
access to a few more spells. However, instead of giving wizards more
capacity, they offer a bit more flexibility at casting time.

That's the game balance reason. From the in-character perspective, the
rods create magical effects by channeling stored power into a new form,
much like the spontaneous casting feature of the cleric and druid.

> Besides, only formulaic types can use PoP, it seems somehow poetic to
> make an only spontanious item.

Hm, that's a good point.

> But this is a matter of taste rather than ballance.

You could always break it into two abilities: one that grants spell
knowledge, and another that allows spontaneous channeling. Of course,
you'd rarely find items that provide both abilities, since any given
caster would normally want one or the other, but not both.

> Is there a reason these are rods rather than some other item type
> other than the fact that rods are underused?

Three reasons:
1. Rods are underused.
2. Rods are the usual category for "weird" effects and abilities.
3. Metamagic-granting items are rods.

>> The rod's market price is 1,000 gp times the rod's spell level
>> squared. Additional spells add 750 gp x spell level squared to the
>> market price.

> It's obvious, but clarify that the high priced spell must be the
> highest level spell in the rod.

Yeah, I'm just not quite up to writing solid rules today. The language
could use a bit of work.

>> Power knowledge rods hold the essence of a psionic power. A power
>> knowledge rod adds the rod's power to the wielder's powers known. To
>> use a power knowledge rod, a character must have a power point
>> reserve. (The rod's power need not be on the character's power list.)
>> Creating a power knowledge rod requires the Craft Universal Item
>> feat.

> I think it needs to be on the user's list given that it uses his
> manifester level, otherwise this is too good a deal for the Psychic
> Warrior types.

The original idea was based on Expanded Knowledge, which lets you poach
other classes' power lists. Also, I thought it would be cool to let
psychic races and folks with Wild Talent to use these items (at least
for 1st-level powers). I suppose I need a rule for that last part, i.e.,
such characters can only activate 1st-level rods, by spending 1 power
point.

> You also may need to clarify that the caster must have a manifester
> level sufficient to manifest the power in question.

Yeah, poor documentation skills today.

Thanks for the criticism.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
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Anonymous
May 4, 2005 4:50:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Bradd W. Szonye" <bradd+news@szonye.com> typed:

>Spell knowledge rods hold the essence of a spell formula. A spell
>knowledge rod adds the rod's spell to the wielder's spells known and
>allows him to cast it spontaneously by "losing" a prepared spell of
>equal or higher level from the same spell list.

snip frenzy

Fine idea. I've used the same principle, except that the lost spell
replaces the one in the rod. Seemed OK. I called it a foo of
Versatility. I'm not sure which is more useful; I suppose it depends
on the user's class and whether the rod's fixed spell is much good.

>The rod's market price is 1,000 gp times the rod's spell level squared.
>Additional spells add 750 gp x spell level squared to the market price.

Seems about right.

>...psionic...

not qualified to comment.

>[Comments? Suggestions?

You might make it a full-round action to use, as per metamagic. Or a
standard action to swap the spell, for casting at a later point.

What about metamagic?


--
Jim or Sarah Davies, but probably Jim

D&D and Star Fleet Battles stuff on http://www.aaargh.org
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 11:40:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd W. Szonye wrote:

> A spell knowledge rod adds the rod's spell to the wielder's
> spells known and allows him to cast it spontaneously by "losing"
> a prepared spell of equal or higher level from the same spell list.

> [Comments? Suggestions? The basic idea here is an item similar
> to the pearl of power, except that it provides the "spell" half
> of the casting instead of the "slot" half. It gives extra
> flexibility to spontaneous casters (by adding more spells known)
> and preparation casters (by allowing cleric-style spontaneous
> casting).


Maybe I'm just dense, but I don't see how spontaneous casters
can use this item at all.



Cheers,
Roger Carbol
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 12:21:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Symbol wrote:

> It adds the spell to the wielders spells known and
> allows them to cast it normally. By sacrificing
> an appropriate level slot.

By sacrificing *a prepared spell*, actually.

Which is why I don't understand how spontaneous casters
will be able to use it.



Cheers,
Roger Carbol
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 1:50:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Symbol wrote:

> Because they don't have to sacrifice a prepared spell.

Yes, they do. At least, I think so.

>From the original message by Bradd:

> A spell knowledge rod adds the rod's spell to the wielder's
> spells known and allows him to cast it spontaneously
> by "losing" a prepared spell of equal or higher level from
> the same spell list.


Looking over it, I guess it could be parsed as:

A spell knowledge rod:
* adds the rod's spell to the wielder's spells known
* allows him to cast it spontaneously by "losing" a
prepared spell of equal or higher level from
the same spell list.

in contrast to the way I've been reading it:

A spell knowledge rod [adds the rod's spell to the wielder's
spells known and allows him to cast it spontaneously]
* by "losing" a prepared spell of equal or
higher level from the same spell list.




Thanks,
Roger Carbol
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 2:58:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

bradd+news@szonye.com wrote:

> Bradd W. Szonye wrote:
> >> Spell knowledge rods hold the essence of a spell formula. A spell
> >> knowledge rod adds the rod's spell to the wielder's spells known and
> >> allows him to cast it spontaneously by "losing" a prepared spell of
> >> equal or higher level from the same spell list. (Clerics may lose a
> >> prepared domain spell in order to cast a rod's spell from the same
> >> domain list. They may not lose prepared domain spells in order to
> >> cast spells from the cleric spell list, and vice versa.) To use a
> >> spell knowledge rod, a character must have the rod's spell on his
> >> spell list.
>
> DougL wrote:
> > Nice general idea.
>
> Thanks! By the way, I wonder whether any sources have already defined
> something like this.

I remember seeing it somewhere, and I thought it was Sean K. Reynolds'
site, but I couldn't find it after a quick glance at the site... which
is not to say it's not there.

It was priced like pearls of power, spell level squared x 1000 gp. Can't
remember if this was the price for a slotted or a non-slotted item.

> > Besides, only formulaic types can use PoP, it seems somehow poetic to
> > make an only spontanious item.
>
> Hm, that's a good point.

I'd limit it to spontaneous casters. My group considered allowing
spontanteous casters to use pearls of power, right before we saw the
spell knowledge items, but in the end we decided that it's better that
the preparation types get one and spontanteous types the other.


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 3:00:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd wrote:
>> By the way, I wonder whether any sources have already defined
>> something like this.

Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> I remember seeing it somewhere, and I thought it was Sean K. Reynolds'
> site, but I couldn't find it after a quick glance at the site... which
> is not to say it's not there.
>
> It was priced like pearls of power, spell level squared x 1000 gp.
> Can't remember if this was the price for a slotted or a non-slotted
> item.

That's the same price I gave my item (albeit with some extra benefits).

> I'd limit it to spontaneous casters. My group considered allowing
> spontanteous casters to use pearls of power, right before we saw the
> spell knowledge items, but in the end we decided that it's better that
> the preparation types get one and spontanteous types the other.

That's two votes against the combined "add knowledge and grant
spontaneous casting" ability. How do you feel about making them separate
abilities?

- Spell knowledge rods give you more spells known
- Spontaneous spell rods let you swap out spells like a cleric/druid

I'd price each of these at 1,000 gp x level-squared, plus 750 gp x
level-squared for each additional spell. (Yes, that's the same price as
the original combined version, but the overall benefit for any given
caster should be about the same.)

One oddity about having two separate abilities: A sorcerer's "dowsing
rod" (i.e., rod that grants detect/locate spells) is unusable by a
wizard and vice versa. I'm not sure that's a /problem/, it just strikes
me as odd.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 3:26:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Tue, 03 May 2005 18:49:21 GMT, "Bradd W. Szonye"
<bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote:

>The rod's market price is 1,000 gp times the rod's spell level squared.
>Additional spells add 750 gp x spell level squared to the market price.

Why the reduced price for a second power?
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 7:42:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

<rcarbol@home.com> wrote in message
news:1115217645.628814.9060@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Bradd W. Szonye wrote:
>
> > A spell knowledge rod adds the rod's spell to the wielder's
> > spells known and allows him to cast it spontaneously by "losing"
> > a prepared spell of equal or higher level from the same spell list.
>
> > [Comments? Suggestions? The basic idea here is an item similar
> > to the pearl of power, except that it provides the "spell" half
> > of the casting instead of the "slot" half. It gives extra
> > flexibility to spontaneous casters (by adding more spells known)
> > and preparation casters (by allowing cleric-style spontaneous
> > casting).
>
>
> Maybe I'm just dense, but I don't see how spontaneous casters
> can use this item at all.

It adds the spell to the wielders spells known and allows them to cast it
normally. By sacrificing an appropriate level slot.
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 8:23:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd W. Szonye <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote:
> Bradd W. Szonye wrote:
>>> Spell knowledge rods hold the essence of a spell formula. A spell
>>> knowledge rod adds the rod's spell to the wielder's spells known and
>>> allows him to cast it spontaneously by "losing" a prepared spell of
>>> equal or higher level from the same spell list. (Clerics may lose a
>>> prepared domain spell in order to cast a rod's spell from the same
>>> domain list. They may not lose prepared domain spells in order to
>>> cast spells from the cleric spell list, and vice versa.) To use a
>>> spell knowledge rod, a character must have the rod's spell on his
>>> spell list.
>
> DougL wrote:
>> Nice general idea.
>
> Thanks! By the way, I wonder whether any sources have already defined
> something like this. It seems like such an obvious idea, after the fact
> anyway. I came up with it because of an issue in my new campaign: We
> have a psion who lacks /detect psionics/, and a bunch of spellcasters
> who lack Psicraft, which means the group is always fumbling around when
> it comes to psionic items. I thought an item that grants Expanded
> Knowledge would be handy, and then translated the idea to magic.

Just over a year ago:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.frp.dnd/b...

Fugly bloody link.


Now, if you meant *published* sources, actual dead tree stuff, I dunno.
Not for 3e, I think. I based my article here on an old Dragon magazine
article.

>> I would prefer that formulaic casters NOT be able to use a prepared
>> spell with one of these, it stomps on one of the main advantages of
>> the spontanious types.
>
> Yeah, I'm not too sure about that part. It was originally only going to
> grant an extra known spell. Here's my reasoning:

The link above shows the whole thread; the difference between wizard and
sorcerer came up.

If the item *only* gives knowledge of one more spell -- doesn't let you
swap out -- then it's worth no more than one scroll plus copying cost
(to a wizard; to a sorcerer it's worth quite a bit more since it lets
him go beyond his limits).

> Scrolls, wands, and staffs give a sorcerer access to a broader selection
> of spells, which steps on wizards' toes a bit. They give wizards more
> spell capacity, which steps on sorcerers' toes a bit.

s/a bit/a lot/. One of the main limitations on a sorcerer is the fact
that he knows so few spells.

It's less relevant IMC since all spellcasters cast spontaneously and
all are limited in knowledge -- some know more than others at the same
level, because they spend their resources on it, but they're still
limited.

> The spell knowledge rods also let sorcerers and wizards invade each
> other's niches a bit. Like the spell-storage items, they give sorcerers
> access to a few more spells. However, instead of giving wizards more
> capacity, they offer a bit more flexibility at casting time.
>
> That's the game balance reason. From the in-character perspective, the
> rods create magical effects by channeling stored power into a new form,
> much like the spontaneous casting feature of the cleric and druid.

That was my reasoning behind them. Mojo in => power out.

>> Besides, only formulaic types can use PoP, it seems somehow poetic to
>> make an only spontanious item.
>
> Hm, that's a good point.

I like the symmetry, but I don't know that it's warranted. After all,
both sorcerers and wizards can use wands and scrolls.

>> Is there a reason these are rods rather than some other item type
>> other than the fact that rods are underused?
>
> Three reasons:
> 1. Rods are underused.
> 2. Rods are the usual category for "weird" effects and abilities.
> 3. Metamagic-granting items are rods.

Craft Rod is another feat, too. I've seen Scribe Scroll a lot (every
wizard, after all), Brew Potion pretty frequently, Craft Wand fairly
often, everyone who's lasted long enough to qualify for Craft Staff has
taken it... I haven't seen Craft Rod taken.

Granted, this is probably because there isn't much you can do with it;
making these items rods makes some sense.

>>> The rod's market price is 1,000 gp times the rod's spell level
>>> squared. Additional spells add 750 gp x spell level squared to the
>>> market price.
>
>> It's obvious, but clarify that the high priced spell must be the
>> highest level spell in the rod.
>
> Yeah, I'm just not quite up to writing solid rules today. The language
> could use a bit of work.

Bear in mind that a rod like this of a 9th-level spell is 81,000 gp.

+9 armor is worth 81,000gp. Is this rod worth as much as +9 armor?

Granted, 'in the right circumstances', but generally?


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 8:26:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd W. Szonye <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote:
> Bradd wrote:
>>> By the way, I wonder whether any sources have already defined
>>> something like this.
>
> Jasin Zujovic wrote:
>> I remember seeing it somewhere, and I thought it was Sean K. Reynolds'
>> site, but I couldn't find it after a quick glance at the site... which
>> is not to say it's not there.
>>
>> It was priced like pearls of power, spell level squared x 1000 gp.
>> Can't remember if this was the price for a slotted or a non-slotted
>> item.
>
> That's the same price I gave my item (albeit with some extra benefits).
>
>> I'd limit it to spontaneous casters. My group considered allowing
>> spontanteous casters to use pearls of power, right before we saw the
>> spell knowledge items, but in the end we decided that it's better that
>> the preparation types get one and spontanteous types the other.
>
> That's two votes against the combined "add knowledge and grant
> spontaneous casting" ability. How do you feel about making them separate
> abilities?
>
> - Spell knowledge rods give you more spells known
> - Spontaneous spell rods let you swap out spells like a cleric/druid

In the thread posted earlier, I amended the item such that you still
needed to know the spell, it just gave you the ability to swap.

Yes, this took it away from the sorcerer. ISTR there was a 'greater'
version that also provided knowledge.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 8:37:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

<rcarbol@home.com> wrote in message
news:1115220090.482057.41810@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Symbol wrote:
>
> > It adds the spell to the wielders spells known and
> > allows them to cast it normally. By sacrificing
> > an appropriate level slot.
>
> By sacrificing *a prepared spell*, actually.
>
> Which is why I don't understand how spontaneous casters
> will be able to use it.

Because they don't have to sacrifice a prepared spell. It's an item that
functions in two ways. 1) Adds to spells known (so a spontaneous caster
can use it normally) and 2) Gives the capacity to sacrifice a prepared
spell. One is most important for spontaneous casters, the other for those
who lack tactical flexibility.

The item doesn't say that it isn't added to your spell list unless you
have a prepared slot does it?
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 11:05:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd wrote:
>> The rod's market price is 1,000 gp times the rod's spell level
>> squared. Additional spells add 750 gp x spell level squared to the
>> market price.

Loren Pechtel wrote:
> Why the reduced price for a second power?

For the same reason additional staff effects cost less: You can only use
one effect at a time, so you get added flexibility but no additional
power for extra spells.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 11:48:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

rcarbol@home.com wrote:
>> From the original message by Bradd: "A spell knowledge rod adds the
>> rod's spell to the wielder's spells known and allows him to cast it
>> spontaneously by 'losing' a prepared spell of equal or higher level
>> from the same spell list."

> Looking over it, I guess it could be parsed as:
>
> A spell knowledge rod:
> * adds the rod's spell to the wielder's spells known
> * allows him to cast it spontaneously by "losing" a
> prepared spell of equal or higher level from
> the same spell list.

Yes, that was the intent. Sorcerer-type casters can use them to get
additional spells known, and formulaic casters can use them to cast
spells spontaneously a la the cleric and druid.

I was considering breaking up those two benefits into separate items,
but I've changed my mind. I would prefer an item that's useful both to
wizards and to sorcerers. If I split them up, hardly anyone would craft
an item with both abilities, since normally only one of the two effects
is useful to any given caster. The creator would just end up paying
extra for something useless.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
Anonymous
May 5, 2005 12:56:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

bradd+news@szonye.com wrote:

> > I'd limit it to spontaneous casters. My group considered allowing
> > spontanteous casters to use pearls of power, right before we saw the
> > spell knowledge items, but in the end we decided that it's better that
> > the preparation types get one and spontanteous types the other.
>
> That's two votes against the combined "add knowledge and grant
> spontaneous casting" ability. How do you feel about making them separate
> abilities?
>
> - Spell knowledge rods give you more spells known
> - Spontaneous spell rods let you swap out spells like a cleric/druid
>
> I'd price each of these at 1,000 gp x level-squared, plus 750 gp x
> level-squared for each additional spell. (Yes, that's the same price as
> the original combined version, but the overall benefit for any given
> caster should be about the same.)
>
> One oddity about having two separate abilities: A sorcerer's "dowsing
> rod" (i.e., rod that grants detect/locate spells) is unusable by a
> wizard and vice versa. I'm not sure that's a /problem/, it just strikes
> me as odd.

Separate abilities feels wrong, somehow, because of that last thing you
mention. As you say, it's not really a problem in any real way, but I
just don't like it.

I'd probably either limit it to spontaneous casters (and say that the
preparation guys getting pearls of power makes it an even deal), or
allow both types of casters to use the same rod.


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr
Anonymous
May 5, 2005 12:56:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd wrote wrote:
>> One oddity about having two separate abilities: A sorcerer's "dowsing
>> rod" (i.e., rod that grants detect/locate spells) is unusable by a
>> wizard and vice versa. I'm not sure that's a /problem/, it just
>> strikes me as odd.

Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> Separate abilities feels wrong, somehow, because of that last thing
> you mention. As you say, it's not really a problem in any real way,
> but I just don't like it.

Yeah, same here.

> I'd probably either limit it to spontaneous casters (and say that the
> preparation guys getting pearls of power makes it an even deal), or
> allow both types of casters to use the same rod.

I think I'll keep the original version, where it grants both kinds of
casters a little more flexibility: one more spell for sorcerers, and a
little bit of spontaneous casting for wizards. It makes sense that it'd
work this way, because I would expect sorcerers to commission these
items from wizards and vice versa.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
Anonymous
May 5, 2005 1:10:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

<rcarbol@home.com> wrote in message
news:1115225406.912210.8780@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Symbol wrote:
>
> > Because they don't have to sacrifice a prepared spell.
>
> Yes, they do. At least, I think so.
>
> >From the original message by Bradd:
>
> > A spell knowledge rod adds the rod's spell to the wielder's
> > spells known and allows him to cast it spontaneously
> > by "losing" a prepared spell of equal or higher level from
> > the same spell list.
>
>
> Looking over it, I guess it could be parsed as:
>
> A spell knowledge rod:
> * adds the rod's spell to the wielder's spells known
> * allows him to cast it spontaneously by "losing" a
> prepared spell of equal or higher level from
> the same spell list.

Right!

> in contrast to the way I've been reading it:
>
> A spell knowledge rod [adds the rod's spell to the wielder's
> spells known and allows him to cast it spontaneously]
> * by "losing" a prepared spell of equal or
> higher level from the same spell list.

If it was supposed to be this way it would be much better worded by saying
that a character can spontaneously cast the spell (provided that it is on
his list) even if not among his spells known.

Saying it adds to the list of spells known would be a bit of a redundancy.
!