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I've come to the conclusion that I hate PalmOne

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Anonymous
March 30, 2005 5:17:13 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

So I went out looking for a new Palm yesterday to replace my old trusty
M130. I'm less than happy with the results. I ended up buying a Tapwave
Zodiac, which is a great Palm. But it's a little too heavy, I'm afraid. I
am a computer programmer, so I was trying to avoid the Zire 31 because of
the screen and eye strain possibilities (it looked really rough on the
eyes to me). However, now the Zodiac presents all new problems. Gorgeous
screen, but when I'm holding it and inputting data it feels like a brick.
And since it's wide and not tall, it doesn't rest in your palm comfortably
like a standard PDA does.

But that's not the whole story. The whole story is what the he** has
happened to Palm? I looked at the other options, and frankly there are
LESS good quality options for a reasonably priced Palm than there were
just 2 years ago. I'd seriously consider a Pocket PC if there weren't Palm
apps I needed. Main reason? The screen buzzing problem. I read about it on
Amazon.com while doing my research. Read about it while Googling. I didn't
believe it could be that bad.

I went to 4 stores. At every store 3 or more of the high-res Palms had the
screen buzzing problem. Un-freaking-believable. Like clockwork.

What has happened to Palm? Does anyone (save for this ergonomically
questionally Tapwave) make a decent Palm any longer?

Preston
Anonymous
March 30, 2005 5:17:14 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Hi Preston,

Your experience was similar to mine. I had an older Sony Clie that
had a flip cover that fit nicely in my shirt pocket when needed and
was a pleasure to use. My wife decided to get me a nice color Palm
for Christmas and she let me pick out the one I wanted. I looked at
Sony first but I found they were pulling out of the market. I looked
at the Zodiac but decided it was a bit big. I chose the Zire 72 which
was nice except the finish flaked off in the first week. So I
exchanged it and got another one that they swore wouldn't flake. Not
believing them, I bought a hard case which increased the size so it
now won't fit in my pocket. Had I known that, I would have resigned
myself to a larger handheld and tried the Zodiac which looked
interesting. If I have to carry it in my hand anyway, why not? You
mention a screen buzzing problem, which I've not experienced. But I,
like you wonder where all the choices went? I guess the market got a
little too slow for competition.

Bob Kruse
Anonymous
March 30, 2005 6:45:56 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Preston Crawford <me@prestoncrawford.com> writes:

> I went to 4 stores. At every store 3 or more of the high-res Palms had the
> screen buzzing problem. Un-freaking-believable. Like clockwork.

I have a Garmin iQue 3600, and it has no screen buzzing. Love it
(but it probably has more features than you'll need, which probably
makes the cost too high for you). You'll have to pry mine out of my
cold, dead hands.

[ However, the iQue 3600 battery life may be an issue for you. ]

--
Darryl Okahata
darrylo@soco.agilent.com

DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not
constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Agilent Technologies, or
of the little green men that have been following him all day.
Related resources
Anonymous
March 30, 2005 8:07:05 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Preston Crawford <me@prestoncrawford.com> writes:

> Yeah, I know the other companies still making Palm devices (Tapwave, iQue)
> don't have this problem. Just Palm. Unfortunately, as you yourself said,
> Palm is pretty much it for the average consumer market now. No Handspring,
> no Sony. Your device is a GPS device, right?

Yup, although I really don't use it as a GPS device (except for
setting the iQue's clock ;-). I use it for the maps. It's wonderful
for looking up addresses and directions, as well as being able to attach
map locations to items in the address book. I've got a 1GB card with
street-level detail of most of the Western US on it (the maps are only
using around 425MB of the 1GB card, though). However, I don't need
bluetooth or wireless.

[ Yes, I know that I can get maps via other methods, like mapopolis and
others. However, I'm used to Garmin maps -- I know that updates
periodically come out, and I'm happy with the NavTech data. And, if I
get lost, I can just turn on the GPS to figure out where I am, without
having to carry around yet another separate, pod-like device. ;-) ]

--
Darryl Okahata
darrylo@soco.agilent.com

DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not
constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Agilent Technologies, or
of the little green men that have been following him all day.
Anonymous
March 30, 2005 9:06:42 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On 2005-03-30, Darryl Okahata <darrylo@soco.agilent.com> wrote:
> Preston Crawford <me@prestoncrawford.com> writes:
>
>> I went to 4 stores. At every store 3 or more of the high-res Palms had the
>> screen buzzing problem. Un-freaking-believable. Like clockwork.
>
> I have a Garmin iQue 3600, and it has no screen buzzing. Love it
> (but it probably has more features than you'll need, which probably
> makes the cost too high for you). You'll have to pry mine out of my
> cold, dead hands.
>
> [ However, the iQue 3600 battery life may be an issue for you. ]
>

Yeah, I know the other companies still making Palm devices (Tapwave, iQue)
don't have this problem. Just Palm. Unfortunately, as you yourself said,
Palm is pretty much it for the average consumer market now. No Handspring,
no Sony. Your device is a GPS device, right?

Preston
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 12:18:40 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Agreed. I own a T3, and have bought a second as a backup for when this one
dies, because the newer models are less good.
Mick
"Preston Crawford" <me@prestoncrawford.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd4lv9f.jkq.me@serpentor.cobrala...
> So I went out looking for a new Palm yesterday to replace my old trusty
> M130. I'm less than happy with the results. I ended up buying a Tapwave
> Zodiac, which is a great Palm. But it's a little too heavy, I'm afraid. I
> am a computer programmer, so I was trying to avoid the Zire 31 because of
> the screen and eye strain possibilities (it looked really rough on the
> eyes to me). However, now the Zodiac presents all new problems. Gorgeous
> screen, but when I'm holding it and inputting data it feels like a brick.
> And since it's wide and not tall, it doesn't rest in your palm comfortably
> like a standard PDA does.
>
> But that's not the whole story. The whole story is what the he** has
> happened to Palm? I looked at the other options, and frankly there are
> LESS good quality options for a reasonably priced Palm than there were
> just 2 years ago. I'd seriously consider a Pocket PC if there weren't Palm
> apps I needed. Main reason? The screen buzzing problem. I read about it on
> Amazon.com while doing my research. Read about it while Googling. I didn't
> believe it could be that bad.
>
> I went to 4 stores. At every store 3 or more of the high-res Palms had the
> screen buzzing problem. Un-freaking-believable. Like clockwork.
>
> What has happened to Palm? Does anyone (save for this ergonomically
> questionally Tapwave) make a decent Palm any longer?
>
> Preston
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 12:18:41 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Penster wrote:
>
> Agreed. I own a T3, and have bought a second as a backup for when this one
> dies, because the newer models are less good.

"less good"

Is that like "worse?" <g>

Notan
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 1:17:31 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article <slrnd4lv9f.jkq.me@serpentor.cobrala>,
me@REMOVESPAMBLOCKprestoncrawford.com wrote:

> But that's not the whole story. The whole story is what the he** has
> happened to Palm? I looked at the other options, and frankly there are
> LESS good quality options for a reasonably priced Palm than there were
> just 2 years ago.

Don't know what you're talking about. Care to elaborate?

>I'd seriously consider a Pocket PC if there weren't Palm
> apps I needed. Main reason? The screen buzzing problem. I read about it on
> Amazon.com while doing my research. Read about it while Googling. I didn't
> believe it could be that bad.

My Tungsten E doesn't have a screen buzzing problem. BTW, the screen
technology is the reason *some* people have this problem, and it's the
same screen technology in PPCs.

> I went to 4 stores. At every store 3 or more of the high-res Palms had the
> screen buzzing problem. Un-freaking-believable. Like clockwork.

Display models are very poor representatives of the quality of any device
or machine.
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 1:17:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On 2005-03-30, Guy Bannis <guy@ether.net> wrote:
> In article <slrnd4lv9f.jkq.me@serpentor.cobrala>,
> me@REMOVESPAMBLOCKprestoncrawford.com wrote:
>
>> But that's not the whole story. The whole story is what the he** has
>> happened to Palm? I looked at the other options, and frankly there are
>> LESS good quality options for a reasonably priced Palm than there were
>> just 2 years ago.
>
> Don't know what you're talking about. Care to elaborate?

I did below.

>>I'd seriously consider a Pocket PC if there weren't Palm
>> apps I needed. Main reason? The screen buzzing problem. I read about it on
>> Amazon.com while doing my research. Read about it while Googling. I didn't
>> believe it could be that bad.
>
> My Tungsten E doesn't have a screen buzzing problem. BTW, the screen
> technology is the reason *some* people have this problem, and it's the
> same screen technology in PPCs.

I owned Pocket PCs, a Zaurus, Handheld PCs, all kinds of Windows devices
for years before buying my beloved m130 2 years ago. The only device that
ever buzzed was an iPaq. This is a known problem with the PalmOne lineup.
Do a Google search or browse the Amazon.com comments and you'll find TONS
of people mentioning this as a known problem.

>> I went to 4 stores. At every store 3 or more of the high-res Palms had the
>> screen buzzing problem. Un-freaking-believable. Like clockwork.
>
> Display models are very poor representatives of the quality of any device
> or machine.

Of course. But buzzing screens don't come from poor handling. They come
from the device just being defective. And that's a high defective rate in
my book. It just makes me sad, because I want to stick with Palm, but
there aren't any options.

Preston
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 1:17:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

>My Tungsten E doesn't have a screen buzzing problem. BTW, the screen
>technology is the reason *some* people have this problem, and it's the
>same screen technology in PPCs.


I'm interested in WHY your Tungsten E doesn't buzz. How long have you
had it?

I have had mine for a little over 3 months. It made the high pitched
whine right out of the package.

Do you keep yours in a hardcase, soft case, or naked?

I suspect that it might be due to the construction of the digitizer,
or the LCD. Is yours made with glass instead of plastic?

I imagine that the OP was a bit peeved at PalmOne because of all the
reports that he has read about the buzzing. PalmOne has outsourced
their support, so of course there are LOTS of very vocal users who
curse PalmOne. They outsourced to SAVE MONEY. Since the support people
are NOT engineers or even technicians, they are less than helpful,
which makes unhappy customers even more unhappy.

It's not that PalmOne doesn't care about support... It's just not
their job anymore. They're paying someone else to do it (badly). They
are saving a bundle by not hiring skilled people to do it right.

They were probably not aware of the paint peeling problem on the Zire
72 until the units made it to the hands of the customers. It's
entirely possible that it could have been a flaw in manufacturing, not
design. Maybe some solvent that wasn't cleaned from the case caused
the paint to adhere poorly. Since those palms run for $299, and that's
a sizable sum, people expect a bit of service when the paint starts to
flake. That leads them to tech support, which just leads to despair.

The buzzing display might be caused by the screen being made of
plastic instead of glass. This *DOES* sound like a design problem. It
also smacks of an executive decision to "just go with it", maybe
because the specifications for the display had already been approved,
and it would be way to difficult to change the design this late in the
development. It's annoying. The buzzing has an effect on your nerves,
which makes Tungsten E owners irritable. Then they call tech support,
and their day gets worse.

The problem with the Tungsten E speaker intermittently going mute is
another design flaw. It was a good idea for squeezing all of the
components into a tiny case, but it just wasn't tested long enough.
The 2 speaker contacts each have a tiny little point on them where
they make contact with the mainboard. Think of it like a newly
sharpened pencil point. As the speaker vibrates, the points rub
against the mainboard. This has the effect of wearing down the point.
That plus electrical arcing or oxidization can cause the points to
lose electrical contact with the mainboard.

There is a very simple solution to this problem. A small amount of
solder on the mainboard where the speaker makes contact will do
nicely. This could have been done just prior to assembly. The
spring-loaded speaker points will now "dig in" to the softer solder,
actually making a BETTER contact area, rather than just one tiny
point.

It would seem to me that these particular problems could have been
caught if there was more flexibility in their design timetables, or if
they had better usage testing.

Remove the BALONEY from my email address.
-----------------------------------------------------
Matthew Fries Minneapolis, MN USA
freeze@baloneyvisi.com

"Quit eating all my *STUFF*!" - The Tick
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 1:17:33 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

>
>I'm interested in WHY your Tungsten E doesn't buzz. How long have you
>had it?
>
>I have had mine for a little over 3 months. It made the high pitched
>whine right out of the package.

mine has never buzzed. I have had two. the first one lost it's sound. the
second looses it's sound and needs a soft reset now and again. other then that
it works fine (G) I really liked my Sony nx60 till I drooped it too many times.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 1:39:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

It is like worse but less good.
Mick :) 
"Notan" <notan@ddress.com> wrote in message
news:424B0A81.1087EA02@ddress.com...
> Penster wrote:
> >
> > Agreed. I own a T3, and have bought a second as a backup for when this
one
> > dies, because the newer models are less good.
>
> "less good"
>
> Is that like "worse?" <g>
>
> Notan
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 1:39:59 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Thanks for the clarification! <g>

Notan

Penster wrote:
>
> It is like worse but less good.
> Mick :) 
> "Notan" <notan@ddress.com> wrote in message
> news:424B0A81.1087EA02@ddress.com...
> > Penster wrote:
> > >
> > > Agreed. I own a T3, and have bought a second as a backup for when this
> one
> > > dies, because the newer models are less good.
> >
> > "less good"
> >
> > Is that like "worse?" <g>
> >
> > Notan
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 3:53:36 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

guy@ether.net (Guy Bannis) wrote:

>Display models are very poor representatives of the quality of any device
>or machine.

Oh I don't know, the display models sure seem to show up the quality of the
paint on the blue (make that blue and silver?) Zire72 models... ;) 

I'm amazed that they leave those mottled paint challenged models on display but
they sure do in all the stores in my area. After looking at them it makes you
wonder why any customers would buy one??
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 4:17:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article <slrnd4m6pv.k84.me@serpentor.cobrala>,
me@REMOVESPAMBLOCKprestoncrawford.com wrote:

> On 2005-03-30, Guy Bannis <guy@ether.net> wrote:
> > In article <slrnd4lv9f.jkq.me@serpentor.cobrala>,
> > me@REMOVESPAMBLOCKprestoncrawford.com wrote:
> >
> >> But that's not the whole story. The whole story is what the he** has
> >> happened to Palm? I looked at the other options, and frankly there are
> >> LESS good quality options for a reasonably priced Palm than there were
> >> just 2 years ago.
> >
> > Don't know what you're talking about. Care to elaborate?
>
> I did below.

No, you didn't. You mention complaints of buzzing problems. Is that it?

> I owned Pocket PCs, a Zaurus, Handheld PCs, all kinds of Windows devices
> for years before buying my beloved m130 2 years ago. The only device that
> ever buzzed was an iPaq. This is a known problem with the PalmOne lineup.
> Do a Google search or browse the Amazon.com comments and you'll find TONS
> of people mentioning this as a known problem.

It's a known problem on some people's devices and you've just admitted
it's also a known problem on PPCs.

What's important here is the percentage of models with a bad enough
buzzing problem. There are just as many accounts from people who don't
have that problem. As I said, my Tungsten E does not have this problem.

> Of course. But buzzing screens don't come from poor handling. They come
> from the device just being defective.

The buzzing is a hardware problem when it occurs. Poor handling definitely
makes hardware problems worse.
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 4:17:57 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Guy Bannis wrote:
> In article <slrnd4m6pv.k84.me@serpentor.cobrala>,
> me@REMOVESPAMBLOCKprestoncrawford.com wrote:
>
>
>>On 2005-03-30, Guy Bannis <guy@ether.net> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <slrnd4lv9f.jkq.me@serpentor.cobrala>,
>>>me@REMOVESPAMBLOCKprestoncrawford.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>But that's not the whole story. The whole story is what the he** has
>>>>happened to Palm? I looked at the other options, and frankly there are
>>>>LESS good quality options for a reasonably priced Palm than there were
>>>>just 2 years ago.
>>>
>>>Don't know what you're talking about. Care to elaborate?
>>
>>I did below.
>
>
> No, you didn't. You mention complaints of buzzing problems. Is that it?
>
>
>>I owned Pocket PCs, a Zaurus, Handheld PCs, all kinds of Windows devices
>>for years before buying my beloved m130 2 years ago. The only device that
>>ever buzzed was an iPaq. This is a known problem with the PalmOne lineup.
>>Do a Google search or browse the Amazon.com comments and you'll find TONS
>>of people mentioning this as a known problem.
>
>
> It's a known problem on some people's devices and you've just admitted
> it's also a known problem on PPCs.
>
> What's important here is the percentage of models with a bad enough
> buzzing problem. There are just as many accounts from people who don't
> have that problem. As I said, my Tungsten E does not have this problem.

Mine does. It seems to have happened after I had it for a while.
Solution: using it in a noisy place, and training myself to ignore it in
a quiet place.

>
>
>>Of course. But buzzing screens don't come from poor handling. They come
>>from the device just being defective.
>
>
> The buzzing is a hardware problem when it occurs. Poor handling definitely
> makes hardware problems worse.
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 4:18:59 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article <egem419rqs1s95jrtheacrqsp5ltnstq00@4ax.com>, AaronJ
<noemail@noemail.com> wrote:

> guy@ether.net (Guy Bannis) wrote:
>
> >Display models are very poor representatives of the quality of any device
> >or machine.
>
> Oh I don't know, the display models sure seem to show up the quality of the
> paint on the blue (make that blue and silver?) Zire72 models... ;) 
>
> I'm amazed that they leave those mottled paint challenged models on
display but
> they sure do in all the stores in my area. After looking at them it makes you
> wonder why any customers would buy one??

You must also be amazed by the inkjets that smear their output, the
displays with fuzzy pictures, and the toasters with dents in them.
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 4:19:00 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Guy Bannis wrote:
> In article <egem419rqs1s95jrtheacrqsp5ltnstq00@4ax.com>, AaronJ
> <noemail@noemail.com> wrote:
>
>> guy@ether.net (Guy Bannis) wrote:
>>
>>> Display models are very poor representatives of the quality of any
>>> device or machine.
>>
>> Oh I don't know, the display models sure seem to show up the quality
>> of the paint on the blue (make that blue and silver?) Zire72
>> models... ;) 
>>
>> I'm amazed that they leave those mottled paint challenged models on
> display but
>> they sure do in all the stores in my area. After looking at them it
>> makes you wonder why any customers would buy one??
>
> You must also be amazed by the inkjets that smear their output, the
> displays with fuzzy pictures, and the toasters with dents in them.

Are you a *paid* appologist for PalmOne? Screen buzzing is user abuse?
Paint peeling from display models is not a PalmOne problem? Palm
devices are so good that the customer is expected to overlook obvious
out of the box deficiencies? Perhaps as a *paid* appologist, you might
query PalmOne about their incessant emailing of bargains for current
models both blemished and open box? Wonder what that's all about? It's
PalmOne's profitability bleeding away from manufacturing second-rate
products.

PalmOne has the same attitude about their products today as had Apple
Computer about the Macintosh in the early 1990's when Apple simply
"knew" that their overpriced and underpowered computers were better than
all the rest and they could afford to shovel junk into the consumer
channels.

You apparently feel the same about PalmOne. The consumer market isn't
that blinded.

Q
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 5:50:11 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On 2005-03-31, Robert Sterling <rs@uexp.com> wrote:
> Guy Bannis wrote:
>> In article <slrnd4m6pv.k84.me@serpentor.cobrala>,
>> me@REMOVESPAMBLOCKprestoncrawford.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On 2005-03-30, Guy Bannis <guy@ether.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <slrnd4lv9f.jkq.me@serpentor.cobrala>,
>>>>me@REMOVESPAMBLOCKprestoncrawford.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>But that's not the whole story. The whole story is what the he** has
>>>>>happened to Palm? I looked at the other options, and frankly there are
>>>>>LESS good quality options for a reasonably priced Palm than there were
>>>>>just 2 years ago.
>>>>
>>>>Don't know what you're talking about. Care to elaborate?
>>>
>>>I did below.
>>
>>
>> No, you didn't. You mention complaints of buzzing problems. Is that it?
>>
>>
>>>I owned Pocket PCs, a Zaurus, Handheld PCs, all kinds of Windows devices
>>>for years before buying my beloved m130 2 years ago. The only device that
>>>ever buzzed was an iPaq. This is a known problem with the PalmOne lineup.
>>>Do a Google search or browse the Amazon.com comments and you'll find TONS
>>>of people mentioning this as a known problem.
>>
>>
>> It's a known problem on some people's devices and you've just admitted
>> it's also a known problem on PPCs.
>>
>> What's important here is the percentage of models with a bad enough
>> buzzing problem. There are just as many accounts from people who don't
>> have that problem. As I said, my Tungsten E does not have this problem.
>
> Mine does. It seems to have happened after I had it for a while.
> Solution: using it in a noisy place, and training myself to ignore it in
> a quiet place.

I'm glad that work for you. I can't do that. It would drive me crazy. I
walked into those stores that had the buzzing Palms and I could hear them
without even having to lift them to my ear.

Preston
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 5:54:13 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On 2005-03-31, Quaoar <quaoar@tenthplanet.net> wrote:
> Are you a *paid* appologist for PalmOne? Screen buzzing is user abuse?
> Paint peeling from display models is not a PalmOne problem? Palm
> devices are so good that the customer is expected to overlook obvious
> out of the box deficiencies? Perhaps as a *paid* appologist, you might
> query PalmOne about their incessant emailing of bargains for current
> models both blemished and open box? Wonder what that's all about? It's
> PalmOne's profitability bleeding away from manufacturing second-rate
> products.

Exactly. I got SO MANY of those emails when I had my Palm m130. Now I know
what they were all about.

> You apparently feel the same about PalmOne. The consumer market isn't
> that blinded.

Sadly, it doesn't matter. As I've learned, there is no choice. I'm walking
in tomorrow and buying a Palm Zire 31 because it's the only thing on the
market I can buy new that comes anywhere close to my Palm m130. That's
sad.

Preston
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 7:44:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article <slrnd4m6pv.k84.me@serpentor.cobrala>, me@prestoncrawford.com
says...
> This is a known problem with the PalmOne lineup.
> Do a Google search or browse the Amazon.com comments and you'll find TONS
> of people mentioning this as a known problem.
>
>
>

1.5 million TE's sold, 127 whiners with screen buzz, get a grip.

--
Jim Anderson
( 8(|) To email me just pull my_finger
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 7:44:59 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On 2005-03-31, Jim Anderson <fro2750@frontiernet.my_finger.net> wrote:
> In article <slrnd4m6pv.k84.me@serpentor.cobrala>, me@prestoncrawford.com
> says...
>> This is a known problem with the PalmOne lineup.
>> Do a Google search or browse the Amazon.com comments and you'll find TONS
>> of people mentioning this as a known problem.
>>
>>
>>
>
> 1.5 million TE's sold, 127 whiners with screen buzz, get a grip.

Funny that every single one I've come across in the last 2 days (at 7
stores now) has buzzed loudly. It must be one giant coincidence.

Incidentally, I read an article on the buzzing and why it happens.
Stumbled on it while Googling. Apparently it has something to do with the
frequency of the display. Someone figured out a way to turn up the
frequency of the display to an inaudible level and it goes away. Or you
use glass and it goes away (that's another common solution). Either way,
the bottom line is that PalmOne has created a line of highly defective
products and it isn't my imagination. It's fact.

Preston
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 9:29:12 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

guy@ether.net (Guy Bannis) wrote:

>You must also be amazed by the inkjets that smear their output, the
>displays with fuzzy pictures, and the toasters with dents in them.

I suppose that you have a valid point there Guey. I shouldn't be amazed at a
sales staff that would leave damaged goods on display as a demo, considering the
quality $5/hour sales force at most electronic stores these days. But wouldn't
you think that the $10/hour manager would notice???
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 10:56:16 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article <0dlm41p4ckcpqgedljgrprr0pnt1p5l2kj@4ax.com>, Matthew Fries
<Nobody@home.com> wrote:

> >My Tungsten E doesn't have a screen buzzing problem. BTW, the screen
> >technology is the reason *some* people have this problem, and it's the
> >same screen technology in PPCs.
>
>
> I'm interested in WHY your Tungsten E doesn't buzz. How long have you
> had it?

Since it first came out.

> I have had mine for a little over 3 months. It made the high pitched
> whine right out of the package.
>
> Do you keep yours in a hardcase, soft case, or naked?

Naked.

> I suspect that it might be due to the construction of the digitizer,
> or the LCD. Is yours made with glass instead of plastic?

Have no idea.
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 6:54:47 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 01:52:20 -0600, Preston Crawford wrote:

> Funny that every single one I've come across in the last 2 days (at 7
> stores now) has buzzed loudly. It must be one giant coincidence

Did you ever consider that the display models are purposely sub-par
models, because the vendors KNOW they're going to be mishandled, and they
probably get a discount on them because they're "defective" in some way?

Its like putting the mis-cut jeans on the mannequin. Why put a perfectly
good pair of jeans you can sell to a customer, on a mannequin, when you
can put the pair that has one cuff an inch shorter on it instead.

I'm not saying this IS the case, but you haven't even considered it.
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 6:54:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On 2005-03-31, John Doe <a.nonymous@abuse.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 01:52:20 -0600, Preston Crawford wrote:
>
>> Funny that every single one I've come across in the last 2 days (at 7
>> stores now) has buzzed loudly. It must be one giant coincidence
>
> Did you ever consider that the display models are purposely sub-par
> models, because the vendors KNOW they're going to be mishandled, and they
> probably get a discount on them because they're "defective" in some way?
>
> Its like putting the mis-cut jeans on the mannequin. Why put a perfectly
> good pair of jeans you can sell to a customer, on a mannequin, when you
> can put the pair that has one cuff an inch shorter on it instead.
>
> I'm not saying this IS the case, but you haven't even considered it.

No. I never considered that. I stupidly assumed that vendors would want to
make a good impression with their products.

Preston
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 8:19:03 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 13:17:13 -0600, someone posing as Preston Crawford
donned fireproof bloomers and chiseled in the wall:

> So I went out looking for a new Palm yesterday to replace my old trusty
> M130. I'm less than happy with the results. I ended up buying a Tapwave
> Zodiac, which is a great Palm. But it's a little too heavy, I'm afraid. I
> am a computer programmer, so I was trying to avoid the Zire 31 because of
> the screen and eye strain possibilities (it looked really rough on the
> eyes to me). However, now the Zodiac presents all new problems. Gorgeous
> screen, but when I'm holding it and inputting data it feels like a brick.
> And since it's wide and not tall, it doesn't rest in your palm comfortably
> like a standard PDA does.

You mean, you bought a Nintendo/Sony Play Station replacement and ended up
with a PDA. :) 

So far, except for the paint flaking, I really enjoy my Zire 72. That puppy
looks nice, too, though.

Do you find yourself not using the stylus much?


--
kai - theperfectreign@yahoo.com - www.perfectreign.com

kai:/> format a:
Error: The DOS concept of formatting disk media is screwed.
To format a floppy, use "fdformat /dev/fd0"
and then "mkfs.minix /dev/fd0".
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 9:49:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article <slrnd4nbhe.mdp.me@serpentor.cobrala>,
me@REMOVESPAMBLOCKprestoncrawford.com wrote:

> On 2005-03-31, Jim Anderson <fro2750@frontiernet.my_finger.net> wrote:
> > In article <slrnd4m6pv.k84.me@serpentor.cobrala>, me@prestoncrawford.com
> > says...
> >> This is a known problem with the PalmOne lineup.
> >> Do a Google search or browse the Amazon.com comments and you'll find TONS
> >> of people mentioning this as a known problem.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > 1.5 million TE's sold, 127 whiners with screen buzz, get a grip.
>
> Funny that every single one I've come across in the last 2 days (at 7
> stores now) has buzzed loudly. It must be one giant coincidence.

It might be you.

Why are you going on and on about this? Someone paying you?
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 9:49:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On 2005-03-31, Guy Bannis <guy@ether.net> wrote:
> In article <slrnd4nbhe.mdp.me@serpentor.cobrala>,
> me@REMOVESPAMBLOCKprestoncrawford.com wrote:
>
>> On 2005-03-31, Jim Anderson <fro2750@frontiernet.my_finger.net> wrote:
>> > In article <slrnd4m6pv.k84.me@serpentor.cobrala>, me@prestoncrawford.com
>> > says...
>> >> This is a known problem with the PalmOne lineup.
>> >> Do a Google search or browse the Amazon.com comments and you'll find TONS
>> >> of people mentioning this as a known problem.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > 1.5 million TE's sold, 127 whiners with screen buzz, get a grip.
>>
>> Funny that every single one I've come across in the last 2 days (at 7
>> stores now) has buzzed loudly. It must be one giant coincidence.
>
> It might be you.
>
> Why are you going on and on about this? Someone paying you?

Oh come on. Someone paying you? I'm simply lamenting the state of the Palm
market as someone seeking to replace their old Palm. Can't you understand
that?

Preston
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 2:25:34 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article <slrnd4og1m.ssl.me@serpentor.cobrala>,
me@REMOVESPAMBLOCKprestoncrawford.com wrote:

> On 2005-03-31, Guy Bannis <guy@ether.net> wrote:
> > In article <slrnd4nbhe.mdp.me@serpentor.cobrala>,
> > me@REMOVESPAMBLOCKprestoncrawford.com wrote:
> >
> >> On 2005-03-31, Jim Anderson <fro2750@frontiernet.my_finger.net> wrote:
> >> > In article <slrnd4m6pv.k84.me@serpentor.cobrala>, me@prestoncrawford.com
> >> > says...
> >> >> This is a known problem with the PalmOne lineup.
> >> >> Do a Google search or browse the Amazon.com comments and you'll
find TONS
> >> >> of people mentioning this as a known problem.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > 1.5 million TE's sold, 127 whiners with screen buzz, get a grip.
> >>
> >> Funny that every single one I've come across in the last 2 days (at 7
> >> stores now) has buzzed loudly. It must be one giant coincidence.
> >
> > It might be you.
> >
> > Why are you going on and on about this? Someone paying you?
>
> Oh come on. Someone paying you? I'm simply lamenting the state of the Palm
> market as someone seeking to replace their old Palm. Can't you understand
> that?
>
> Preston

What I can't understand is your generalization. It's not the display
that's the only one whining.
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 2:25:35 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On 2005-03-31, Guy Bannis <guy@ether.net> wrote:
> In article <slrnd4og1m.ssl.me@serpentor.cobrala>,
> me@REMOVESPAMBLOCKprestoncrawford.com wrote:
>
>> On 2005-03-31, Guy Bannis <guy@ether.net> wrote:
>> > In article <slrnd4nbhe.mdp.me@serpentor.cobrala>,
>> > me@REMOVESPAMBLOCKprestoncrawford.com wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 2005-03-31, Jim Anderson <fro2750@frontiernet.my_finger.net> wrote:
>> >> > In article <slrnd4m6pv.k84.me@serpentor.cobrala>, me@prestoncrawford.com
>> >> > says...
>> >> >> This is a known problem with the PalmOne lineup.
>> >> >> Do a Google search or browse the Amazon.com comments and you'll
> find TONS
>> >> >> of people mentioning this as a known problem.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > 1.5 million TE's sold, 127 whiners with screen buzz, get a grip.
>> >>
>> >> Funny that every single one I've come across in the last 2 days (at 7
>> >> stores now) has buzzed loudly. It must be one giant coincidence.
>> >
>> > It might be you.
>> >
>> > Why are you going on and on about this? Someone paying you?
>>
>> Oh come on. Someone paying you? I'm simply lamenting the state of the Palm
>> market as someone seeking to replace their old Palm. Can't you understand
>> that?
>>
>> Preston
>
> What I can't understand is your generalization. It's not the display
> that's the only one whining.

Very intelligent and mature way to counter my complaint. When all else
fails and you have no leg to stand on, resort to personal remarks.

Preston
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 3:35:05 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article <slrnd4ov6i.umg.me@serpentor.cobrala>,
me@REMOVESPAMBLOCKprestoncrawford.com wrote:

> On 2005-03-31, Guy Bannis <guy@ether.net> wrote:
> > In article <slrnd4og1m.ssl.me@serpentor.cobrala>,
> > me@REMOVESPAMBLOCKprestoncrawford.com wrote:
> >
> >> On 2005-03-31, Guy Bannis <guy@ether.net> wrote:
> >> > In article <slrnd4nbhe.mdp.me@serpentor.cobrala>,
> >> > me@REMOVESPAMBLOCKprestoncrawford.com wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On 2005-03-31, Jim Anderson <fro2750@frontiernet.my_finger.net> wrote:
> >> >> > In article <slrnd4m6pv.k84.me@serpentor.cobrala>,
me@prestoncrawford.com
> >> >> > says...
> >> >> >> This is a known problem with the PalmOne lineup.
> >> >> >> Do a Google search or browse the Amazon.com comments and you'll
> > find TONS
> >> >> >> of people mentioning this as a known problem.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 1.5 million TE's sold, 127 whiners with screen buzz, get a grip.
> >> >>
> >> >> Funny that every single one I've come across in the last 2 days (at 7
> >> >> stores now) has buzzed loudly. It must be one giant coincidence.
> >> >
> >> > It might be you.
> >> >
> >> > Why are you going on and on about this? Someone paying you?
> >>
> >> Oh come on. Someone paying you? I'm simply lamenting the state of the Palm
> >> market as someone seeking to replace their old Palm. Can't you understand
> >> that?
> >>
> >> Preston
> >
> > What I can't understand is your generalization. It's not the display
> > that's the only one whining.
>
> Very intelligent and mature way to counter my complaint. When all else
> fails and you have no leg to stand on, resort to personal remarks.
>
> Preston

The truth hurts. I have yet to see you cite an intelligent, cogent
statistic on your claimed "defect."
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 3:35:06 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Guy Bannis" <guy@ether.net> wrote in message
news:guy-3103051535260001@192.168.1.103...
> In article <slrnd4ov6i.umg.me@serpentor.cobrala>,
> me@REMOVESPAMBLOCKprestoncrawford.com wrote:
> > Very intelligent and mature way to counter my complaint. When all else
> > fails and you have no leg to stand on, resort to personal remarks.
>
> The truth hurts. I have yet to see you cite an intelligent, cogent
> statistic on your claimed "defect."

He said: "Funny that every single one I've come across in the last 2 days (at 7
stores now) has buzzed loudly. It must be one giant coincidence."

That's 100% of the units sampled at seven different sites.

It's a limited statistical universe, of course, but it's large enough to be
interesting and worth discussion.

- Bill
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 10:53:31 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article <7umdnemlC4QcANHfRVn-tQ@giganews.com>, "Bill Leary"
<Bill_Leary@msn.com> wrote:

> "Guy Bannis" <guy@ether.net> wrote in message
> news:guy-3103051535260001@192.168.1.103...
> > In article <slrnd4ov6i.umg.me@serpentor.cobrala>,
> > me@REMOVESPAMBLOCKprestoncrawford.com wrote:
> > > Very intelligent and mature way to counter my complaint. When all else
> > > fails and you have no leg to stand on, resort to personal remarks.
> >
> > The truth hurts. I have yet to see you cite an intelligent, cogent
> > statistic on your claimed "defect."
>
> He said: "Funny that every single one I've come across in the last 2
days (at 7
> stores now) has buzzed loudly. It must be one giant coincidence."
>
> That's 100% of the units sampled at seven different sites.
>
> It's a limited statistical universe, of course, but it's large enough to be
> interesting and worth discussion.

It's more than limited. It's totally unrepresentative and meaningless. All
of them were display models not subject to common usage.

The relevant stat here is percent of total PalmOne devices that have the
buzzing problem.

Does anyone understand statistics anymore?
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 11:49:11 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Preston Crawford wrote:
> On 2005-03-31, Robert Sterling <rs@uexp.com> wrote:
>
>>Guy Bannis wrote:
>>
>>>In article <slrnd4m6pv.k84.me@serpentor.cobrala>,
>>>me@REMOVESPAMBLOCKprestoncrawford.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>On 2005-03-30, Guy Bannis <guy@ether.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article <slrnd4lv9f.jkq.me@serpentor.cobrala>,
>>>>>me@REMOVESPAMBLOCKprestoncrawford.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>But that's not the whole story. The whole story is what the he** has
>>>>>>happened to Palm? I looked at the other options, and frankly there are
>>>>>>LESS good quality options for a reasonably priced Palm than there were
>>>>>>just 2 years ago.
>>>>>
>>>>>Don't know what you're talking about. Care to elaborate?
>>>>
>>>>I did below.
>>>
>>>
>>>No, you didn't. You mention complaints of buzzing problems. Is that it?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I owned Pocket PCs, a Zaurus, Handheld PCs, all kinds of Windows devices
>>>>for years before buying my beloved m130 2 years ago. The only device that
>>>>ever buzzed was an iPaq. This is a known problem with the PalmOne lineup.
>>>>Do a Google search or browse the Amazon.com comments and you'll find TONS
>>>>of people mentioning this as a known problem.
>>>
>>>
>>>It's a known problem on some people's devices and you've just admitted
>>>it's also a known problem on PPCs.
>>>
>>>What's important here is the percentage of models with a bad enough
>>>buzzing problem. There are just as many accounts from people who don't
>>>have that problem. As I said, my Tungsten E does not have this problem.
>>
>>Mine does. It seems to have happened after I had it for a while.
>>Solution: using it in a noisy place, and training myself to ignore it in
>>a quiet place.
>
>
> I'm glad that work for you.

Let's just say that it's a work in process. It'll work better with more
proficiency in Zen in the first place <g>

I can't do that. It would drive me crazy. I
> walked into those stores that had the buzzing Palms and I could hear them
> without even having to lift them to my ear.
>
> Preston
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 12:19:26 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Guy Bannis" <guy@ether.net> wrote in message
news:guy-3103052253510001@192.168.1.103...
> In article <7umdnemlC4QcANHfRVn-tQ@giganews.com>, "Bill Leary"
> <Bill_Leary@msn.com> wrote:
> > That's 100% of the units sampled at seven different sites.
> >
> > It's a limited statistical universe, of course, but it's large enough to be
> > interesting and worth discussion.
>
> It's more than limited. It's totally unrepresentative and meaningless. All
> of them were display models not subject to common usage.
>
> The relevant stat here is percent of total PalmOne devices that have the
> buzzing problem.
>
> Does anyone understand statistics anymore?

His statistical domain is demonstration units. How many exist outside that
domain are irrelevant to that statistic.

His error (a common one) was to extend that to a conclusion that those outside
that domain are also all defective.

This is a bit like saying that if I go to the junk yard and find that all the
Toyota Camry's there have extensive body damage that ALL Camry's everywhere must
have extensive body damage... or going to a new car lot and seeing that none
have any and concluding that none anywhere have any.

On the other hand, the observation that these noisy demo units are a poor
representation of the product is certainly relevant. Even if they are only a
few, they *do* represent the entire product to anyone who sees them in a very
real way because they're what over-the-counter purchasers will base their buying
decision on.

Just before Christmas 2003 I went shopping for a device for my wife. I chose a
Tungsten E for her, based on a number of considerations. I never considered
noise level, but had the demo unit made a noticeable amount of noise, I'd have
at the very least gone to listen another unit before deciding on it. The store
I was at would have lost the sale, because I wouldn't have bothered to go back.
If the second one had shown the same characteristic, I'd have probably just
given up on the Tungsten E completely. Since it fit what I wanted to get her in
other ways, I might have moved down my list of gift ideas and gotten her
something else, thus ending the purchase entirely.

- Bill
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 7:13:01 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Good reasoning Bill.
"Bill Leary" <Bill_Leary@msn.com> wrote in message
news:bZedndZ4C9Fy1dDfRVn-3Q@giganews.com...
> "Guy Bannis" <guy@ether.net> wrote in message
> news:guy-3103052253510001@192.168.1.103...
> > In article <7umdnemlC4QcANHfRVn-tQ@giganews.com>, "Bill Leary"
> > <Bill_Leary@msn.com> wrote:
> > > That's 100% of the units sampled at seven different sites.
> > >
> > > It's a limited statistical universe, of course, but it's large enough
to be
> > > interesting and worth discussion.
> >
> > It's more than limited. It's totally unrepresentative and meaningless.
All
> > of them were display models not subject to common usage.
> >
> > The relevant stat here is percent of total PalmOne devices that have the
> > buzzing problem.
> >
> > Does anyone understand statistics anymore?
>
> His statistical domain is demonstration units. How many exist outside
that
> domain are irrelevant to that statistic.
>
> His error (a common one) was to extend that to a conclusion that those
outside
> that domain are also all defective.
>
> This is a bit like saying that if I go to the junk yard and find that all
the
> Toyota Camry's there have extensive body damage that ALL Camry's
everywhere must
> have extensive body damage... or going to a new car lot and seeing that
none
> have any and concluding that none anywhere have any.
>
> On the other hand, the observation that these noisy demo units are a poor
> representation of the product is certainly relevant. Even if they are
only a
> few, they *do* represent the entire product to anyone who sees them in a
very
> real way because they're what over-the-counter purchasers will base their
buying
> decision on.
>
> Just before Christmas 2003 I went shopping for a device for my wife. I
chose a
> Tungsten E for her, based on a number of considerations. I never
considered
> noise level, but had the demo unit made a noticeable amount of noise, I'd
have
> at the very least gone to listen another unit before deciding on it. The
store
> I was at would have lost the sale, because I wouldn't have bothered to go
back.
> If the second one had shown the same characteristic, I'd have probably
just
> given up on the Tungsten E completely. Since it fit what I wanted to get
her in
> other ways, I might have moved down my list of gift ideas and gotten her
> something else, thus ending the purchase entirely.
>
> - Bill
>
>
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 7:51:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

guy@ether.net (Guy Bannis) wrote:

>The relevant stat here is percent of total PalmOne devices that have the
>buzzing problem.

What is the approximate audio frequency of this screen "buzzing"?

Years ago I could easily hear a high pitch whine from most TV sets. It was the
horizontal oscillator and pitched at about 15 KHz. In recent years though my
high frequency hearing has deteriorated and I no longer hear this whine.

I've never heard any screen noise from any Tungsten E or Palm. It occurred to me
that if the reported Palm screen noise is in this hearing loss range that could
be the reason that many people have never heard it. High frequency hearing loss
is quite common these days due to occupational hazards, loud music, aging, ect.

Course if it's just a 60 Hz buzz then I guess I'm just one of the lucky
multitudes who have never heard it... ;) 
April 1, 2005 10:46:20 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On 2005-04-01, AaronJ <noemail@noemail.com> wrote:
> guy@ether.net (Guy Bannis) wrote:
>
>>The relevant stat here is percent of total PalmOne devices that have the
>>buzzing problem.
>
> What is the approximate audio frequency of this screen "buzzing"?
>
> Years ago I could easily hear a high pitch whine from most TV sets. It was the
> horizontal oscillator and pitched at about 15 KHz. In recent years though my
> high frequency hearing has deteriorated and I no longer hear this whine.
>
> I've never heard any screen noise from any Tungsten E or Palm. It occurred to me
> that if the reported Palm screen noise is in this hearing loss range that could
> be the reason that many people have never heard it. High frequency hearing loss
> is quite common these days due to occupational hazards, loud music, aging, ect.
>
> Course if it's just a 60 Hz buzz then I guess I'm just one of the lucky
> multitudes who have never heard it... ;) 

Just measured it, approx 9kHz.
If you like, I could upload a *.wav of it for you to hear.

--
Toby.
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject
field to circumvent my email filters.
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 10:46:21 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Toby" <google@asktoby.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd4r27c.3l4.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de...
> On 2005-04-01, AaronJ <noemail@noemail.com> wrote:
> > guy@ether.net (Guy Bannis) wrote:
> >
> >>The relevant stat here is percent of total PalmOne devices that have the
> >>buzzing problem.
> >
> > What is the approximate audio frequency of this screen "buzzing"?
> >
> > Years ago I could easily hear a high pitch whine from most TV sets. It
was the
> > horizontal oscillator and pitched at about 15 KHz. In recent years
though my
> > high frequency hearing has deteriorated and I no longer hear this whine.
> >
> > I've never heard any screen noise from any Tungsten E or Palm. It
occurred to me
> > that if the reported Palm screen noise is in this hearing loss range
that could
> > be the reason that many people have never heard it. High frequency
hearing loss
> > is quite common these days due to occupational hazards, loud music,
aging, ect.
> >
> > Course if it's just a 60 Hz buzz then I guess I'm just one of the lucky
> > multitudes who have never heard it... ;) 
>
> Just measured it, approx 9kHz.
> If you like, I could upload a *.wav of it for you to hear.
>
> --
> Toby.
> Add the word afiduluminag to the subject
> field to circumvent my email filters.


At my age 9khz is just barely audible. Maybe this is why some people hear a
whine and others don't.

Anyway the whine comes from the inverter that supplies the voltage to
backlight. There is most likely a transformer that squeals in some units.
Opening the case (Oh the horror!) and putting a bit of super glue on the
windings would stop it.


--
John Passaneau
Penn State University
jxp16@psu.edu
April 2, 2005 1:27:27 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On 2005-04-01, John Passaneau <jxp16@psu.edu> wrote:
>
> "Toby" <google@asktoby.com> wrote in message
> news:slrnd4r27c.3l4.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de...
>> On 2005-04-01, AaronJ <noemail@noemail.com> wrote:
>> > guy@ether.net (Guy Bannis) wrote:
>> >
>> >>The relevant stat here is percent of total PalmOne devices that have the
>> >>buzzing problem.
>> >
>> > What is the approximate audio frequency of this screen "buzzing"?
>> >
>> > Years ago I could easily hear a high pitch whine from most TV sets. It
> was the
>> > horizontal oscillator and pitched at about 15 KHz. In recent years
> though my
>> > high frequency hearing has deteriorated and I no longer hear this whine.
>> >
>> > I've never heard any screen noise from any Tungsten E or Palm. It
> occurred to me
>> > that if the reported Palm screen noise is in this hearing loss range
> that could
>> > be the reason that many people have never heard it. High frequency
> hearing loss
>> > is quite common these days due to occupational hazards, loud music,
> aging, ect.
>> >
>> > Course if it's just a 60 Hz buzz then I guess I'm just one of the lucky
>> > multitudes who have never heard it... ;) 
>>
>> Just measured it, approx 9kHz.
>> If you like, I could upload a *.wav of it for you to hear.
>
> At my age 9khz is just barely audible. Maybe this is why some people hear a
> whine and others don't.

Try listening for yourself:
http://www.asktoby.com/downloads/palm_hiss.mp3
(64KB mp3, 4 seconds)
That's a recording of the palm, turned off, then you hear a click, the
screen comes on (marked with the ~9kHz whine) then a 2nd click as I turn
it off again.

Sorry about the fan noise in the background.

--
Toby.
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject
field to circumvent my email filters.
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 1:27:28 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Toby" <google@asktoby.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd4rblf.3l4.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de...
> On 2005-04-01, John Passaneau <jxp16@psu.edu> wrote:
> >
> > "Toby" <google@asktoby.com> wrote in message
> > news:slrnd4r27c.3l4.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de...
> >> On 2005-04-01, AaronJ <noemail@noemail.com> wrote:
> >> > guy@ether.net (Guy Bannis) wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>The relevant stat here is percent of total PalmOne devices that have
the
> >> >>buzzing problem.
> >> >
> >> > What is the approximate audio frequency of this screen "buzzing"?
> >> >
> >> > Years ago I could easily hear a high pitch whine from most TV sets.
It
> > was the
> >> > horizontal oscillator and pitched at about 15 KHz. In recent years
> > though my
> >> > high frequency hearing has deteriorated and I no longer hear this
whine.
> >> >
> >> > I've never heard any screen noise from any Tungsten E or Palm. It
> > occurred to me
> >> > that if the reported Palm screen noise is in this hearing loss range
> > that could
> >> > be the reason that many people have never heard it. High frequency
> > hearing loss
> >> > is quite common these days due to occupational hazards, loud music,
> > aging, ect.
> >> >
> >> > Course if it's just a 60 Hz buzz then I guess I'm just one of the
lucky
> >> > multitudes who have never heard it... ;) 
> >>
> >> Just measured it, approx 9kHz.
> >> If you like, I could upload a *.wav of it for you to hear.
> >
> > At my age 9khz is just barely audible. Maybe this is why some people
hear a
> > whine and others don't.
>
> Try listening for yourself:
> http://www.asktoby.com/downloads/palm_hiss.mp3
> (64KB mp3, 4 seconds)
> That's a recording of the palm, turned off, then you hear a click, the
> screen comes on (marked with the ~9kHz whine) then a 2nd click as I turn
> it off again.
>
> Sorry about the fan noise in the background.
>
> --
> Toby.
> Add the word afiduluminag to the subject
> field to circumvent my email filters.

All I hear is the fan in the background. When your in the 50's, 10khz is
just about gone. When I was in my 20's I could easily hear 20KHz but not any
more.
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 1:27:28 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Toby" <google@asktoby.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd4rblf.3l4.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de...
> On 2005-04-01, John Passaneau <jxp16@psu.edu> wrote:
> Try listening for yourself:
> http://www.asktoby.com/downloads/palm_hiss.mp3
> (64KB mp3, 4 seconds)
> That's a recording of the palm, turned off, then you hear a click, the
> screen comes on (marked with the ~9kHz whine) then a 2nd click as I turn
> it off again.

I can only hear that if I turn the volume on my system up about 200% louder than
normal.

But, short of actually measuring it, it seems to be the same tone (frequency) as
my wife's Tungsten E.

- Bill
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 1:27:29 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 16:05:14 -0500, John Passaneau donned fireproof
underwear and scratched on the wall:


>> Try listening for yourself:
>> http://www.asktoby.com/downloads/palm_hiss.mp3
>> (64KB mp3, 4 seconds)
>> That's a recording of the palm, turned off, then you hear a click, the
>> screen comes on (marked with the ~9kHz whine) then a 2nd click as I turn
>> it off again.
>>
>> Sorry about the fan noise in the background.
>>
>> --
>> Toby.
>> Add the word afiduluminag to the subject
>> field to circumvent my email filters.
>
> All I hear is the fan in the background. When your in the 50's, 10khz is
> just about gone. When I was in my 20's I could easily hear 20KHz but not any
> more.

Heck, I'm only 35 and I don't hear squat from that sample. I can get the
fan noise and the two clicks.

I guess I went to too many goth/hardcore concerts back in the '80s. :) 

--
kai - www.perfectreign.com

kai@yoda:~> format a:
Error: The DOS concept of formatting disk media is screwed.
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 1:38:11 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Toby wrote:
> Try listening for yourself:
> http://www.asktoby.com/downloads/palm_hiss.mp3
> (64KB mp3, 4 seconds)
> That's a recording of the palm, turned off, then you hear a click, the
> screen comes on (marked with the ~9kHz whine) then a 2nd click as I turn
> it off again.

That's great. It sounds like a little bitty tiny telephone ringing!

Not that I'd want to hear a tiny little telephone ringing constantly
whenever my Palm is on...

- Logan
April 2, 2005 2:44:41 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On 2005-04-01, Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> Toby wrote:
>> Try listening for yourself:
>> http://www.asktoby.com/downloads/palm_hiss.mp3
>> (64KB mp3, 4 seconds)
>> That's a recording of the palm, turned off, then you hear a click, the
>> screen comes on (marked with the ~9kHz whine) then a 2nd click as I turn
>> it off again.
>
> That's great. It sounds like a little bitty tiny telephone ringing!
>
> Not that I'd want to hear a tiny little telephone ringing constantly
> whenever my Palm is on...

After a year of T|E use, it sounds more like blood streaming from my
torn ears to be honest!

--
Toby.
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject
field to circumvent my email filters.
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 2:44:42 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On 2005-04-01, Toby <google@asktoby.com> wrote:
> On 2005-04-01, Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>> Toby wrote:
>>> Try listening for yourself:
>>> http://www.asktoby.com/downloads/palm_hiss.mp3
>>> (64KB mp3, 4 seconds)
>>> That's a recording of the palm, turned off, then you hear a click, the
>>> screen comes on (marked with the ~9kHz whine) then a 2nd click as I turn
>>> it off again.
>>
>> That's great. It sounds like a little bitty tiny telephone ringing!
>>
>> Not that I'd want to hear a tiny little telephone ringing constantly
>> whenever my Palm is on...
>
> After a year of T|E use, it sounds more like blood streaming from my
> torn ears to be honest!
>

HAHAHA! That's good. That's how I felt sitting in each store I went to. I
knew I couldn't co-exist with the high-res Palms. Sad, really. Totally
sad. My m130 was perfectly usable for what I needed it for.

Preston
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 4:01:26 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Perfect Reign wrote:
> Heck, I'm only 35 and I don't hear squat from that sample. I can get the
> fan noise and the two clicks.
>
> I guess I went to too many goth/hardcore concerts back in the '80s. :) 

Or you're listening on computer speakers, and most computer speakers
are little 2 inch full range cone drivers. Which are not exactly
known for their extended high-frequency response.

I would suggest trying headphones or a real hi-fi system, but then
that has dangers of its own (like to your ears and/or the equipment,
because if it's predominantly only signal in the top two octaves
of the audible range, there is this human tendancy to turn it up
really high to hear it).

- Logan
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 5:11:46 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Toby <google@asktoby.com> wrote:

>Try listening for yourself:
>http://www.asktoby.com/downloads/palm_hiss.mp3
>(64KB mp3, 4 seconds)
>That's a recording of the palm, turned off, then you hear a click, the
>screen comes on (marked with the ~9kHz whine) then a 2nd click as I turn
>it off again.

I could just barely hear the 9kHz whine that came on between the clicks. But it
was extremely light behind the much much louder background hiss. If that website
9kHz whine is much louder than the background hiss to you perhaps it is in fact
my hearing that is the reason I've not heard this problem before. Course it
could also be just a poor audio card in my laptop. I had to use my earbud phones
as the laptop speakers would reproduce only the background hiss. I then put my
TungstenE up to my ear but still nary a peep.

Anyway I just thought I'd bring up this possibility, that is that the TE while
making quite a racket to many of you, would seem very quiet to many of us who
wouldn't/couldn't hear it because of frequency loss in out hearing. That might
explain some of the discrepancies (arguments?) seen here recently...
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 8:21:34 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 00:01:26 +0000, Logan Shaw donned fireproof underwear
and scratched on the wall:

> Perfect Reign wrote:
>> Heck, I'm only 35 and I don't hear squat from that sample. I can get
>> the fan noise and the two clicks.
>>
>> I guess I went to too many goth/hardcore concerts back in the '80s. :) 
>
> Or you're listening on computer speakers, and most computer speakers are
> little 2 inch full range cone drivers. Which are not exactly known for
> their extended high-frequency response.


Valid point. I'll check it out. The speakers on my system are 'supposed'
to be hi-fi quality. I have a six-speaker 5.1 system in the office. Sounds
pretty darn good when I'm playing CD's.

Now, I suppose the real test would be to hook up an old quadraphoenic LP
unit and play Dark Side of the Moon. :) 

--
kai - www.perfectreign.com

kai@yoda:~> format a:
Error: The DOS concept of formatting disk media is screwed.
!