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What is it with you guys?

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  • Intel
  • AMD
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Anonymous
a b à CPUs
November 29, 2001 3:26:28 PM

I come on here for sensible views and useful information, all i get is intel is crap, no AMD is crap.

Please if someone asks for help or info, or just an opinion, don't shoot them down as a troll or flamer, if they are they will get bored if you don't bite.

I have a P2 and i'm looking to get a new machine, AMD or Intel and need all the good quality information and opinions I can.

thank you for reading this rant

'i'm your little glowing friend'

More about : guys

November 30, 2001 4:47:50 AM

Well, as a point of reference, I will post the parts and prices of the two system configurations I was comparing recently, since I am putting together my roommate's system. He has a decent monitor already, and basically wants a fast, but economical machine for general use. Some work, a lot of internet, a lot of music, and some games. No overclocking will be necessary. Here's what I came up with, checking at www.newegg.com, my personal favorite online vendor:

Both systems have this equipment in common:

Enlight case w/300W PSU: $47

Two Thermaltake 80MM case fans: $14

Teac floppy drive, OEM: $9

Pioneer 16x DVD, OEM: $70

Plextor 16/10/40 CDRW, retail box: $134 ($4 more than OEM,
so what the hell?)

IBM 40GB ATA-100 drive: $96

Gainward "Golden Sample" GeForce2 Ti-450, OEM: $99

Sounblaster Live! OEM: $32

US Robotics 56K PCI modem, OEM: $42

Linksys 10/100 NIC: $15

The "overhead", so to speak, is $518

System #1, Intel:

Asus P4T-E Socket 478 motherboard, Intel i850 chipset, retail: $169

Intel Pentium 4 1.7GHz CPU, Socket 748, retail w/HSF: $208

512MB Samsung PC800 RDRAM (2 256MB RIMMs): $168

Total cost of Intel system, before shipping: $1063

pros: thermal protection on CPU, superior performance in certain multimedia applications, motherboard upgradable to Northwood core.

cons: price of CPU, price of RAM, lesser performance in majority of benchmarks compared to comperable AMD.

System #2, AMD:

MSI K7T266 Pro2 Socket A motherboard, VIA KT266A chipset, retail: $104

AMD Athlon XP 1700+ Socket A CPU, retail w/ HSF: $170

512MB Crucial PC2100 DDR SDRAM (2 256MB DIMMs): $110

Total cost of AMD System, before shipping: $902

pros: overall price, wins majority of benchmarks vs. comperable Intel system, Socket A will support future AMD CPUs
cons: lack of AMD-spec thermal protection on motherboard, inferior performance on certain multimedia applications, some software compatibility issues.

So the difference in price is $161. That's honestly less than I was expecting going in. My roomate opted for the AMD system because of the price difference, though. He did show some hesitation in buying a non-Intel system, though, because he's "always used a Pentium."
Related resources
November 30, 2001 8:49:16 AM

One thing you forgot is Amd 1700 Runs some programs faster then p4 2.0. So it a hair lower then a P4 2.0 If you wanted to be faster you go for the amd 1800.
November 30, 2001 9:24:53 AM

That seems like a big order to fill, with the limited amount of info you gave. If I dare speak for other's I would say were not mind readers. If you did the research, then came back with some computer systems to compare, and said what you want it for. Then it would be easier to help you. In your search you might find your own answer, try <A HREF="http://www.cnet.com/frontdoor/0-1.html?tag=hd_ts" target="_new">http://www.cnet.com/frontdoor/0-1.html?tag=hd_ts&lt;/A>
The deeper you reach into your pocket the better the quality will be.

defrage is child's play-fdisk
November 30, 2001 11:05:17 AM

Intel and AMD are both of equal quality, roughly equal performance, equal compatiblity, equal stability, and equal support, and even equal prices on a PR rating level (so an Athlon XP 1900+ costs as much as a P4 1.9GHz) no matter what any troll will tell you. Which to chose is merely a personal preference. AMD and Intel CPU have more in common than people might think. All these compatiblity problems people have are motherboard related not CPU related. If you make sure you have a decent motherboard, then you'll be happy with either an Intel or AMD processor.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by AMD_Man on 11/30/01 07:10 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
November 30, 2001 11:51:04 AM

Bravo.....

Well said.....
November 30, 2001 4:06:48 PM

Intel has better quality, close performance depending on application, AMD is less compatable, AMD is less stable, support depends on who you buy your AMD from (Intel based machines require far less support after sale), AMD XP does not have SSE2 for multimedia, AMD's thermal protection is still flawed to non-funtional.

Pricing is very close, you will pay extra for the PSU and HSF for the AMD system. generic works well for Intel's.
November 30, 2001 4:47:41 PM

"Intel and AMD are both of equal quality" - False, Intel CPUs have more and better features (SSE2, thermal protection, etc.

"roughly equal performance" - Top chip vs. top chip, AMD is a little ahead.
"equal compatiblity" - Overall true.
"equal stability" - For the CPUs, then true. For the platforms, false.
"and equal support" - Depends on where you buy it, as FUGGER said.
"and even equal prices on a PR rating level" - True, although at some levels AMD is cheaper, at some Intel is cheaper (last time I checked PriceWatch, anyway).

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
November 30, 2001 4:54:34 PM

Quote:
you will pay extra for the PSU and HSF for the AMD system. generic works well for Intel's.

According to official datasheets, the P4 draws far more power than the Athlon. You still haven't managed to refute that.

You also haven't managed to explain why the Intel boys at [H]ardForums have P4's running hotter than our Athlons. Or do you think Intel fans lie for the sake of AMD? :lol: 

You have yet to point out a properly-assembled AMD760MP platform that's not stable. You probably can't explain why my Athlon box racks up months of uptime and survives extreme loads.

Kelledin
<A HREF="http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/" target="_new">LFS</A>: "You don't eat or sleep or mow the lawn; you just hack your distro all day long."
November 30, 2001 6:58:46 PM

I think you need to reevaluate a bit of your thinking.

First off the P4 requires just as much or more power as an AMD cpu. Also, when you build a system what are some of the most important system components? The monitor is one and the case w/ powersupply is the other. After all, those are going to last the longest. So if you build a system today wouldn't it be wise to just get a good case with a good powersupply that works for both AMD and the P4? Yes, and that's what an intelligent person would do. Going out and buying a Powersupply each time you upgrade isn't neccessary. We know roughly what the power requirements are going to be for the next couple of years so buying a solid 400W powersupply for example is going to last for a while (depending of course on your needs). You could buy a generic for both platforms as long as you make sure its leads are to spec.

The HSF is another bogus excuse you've made up. I paid $9. With an OEM processor and my own HSF I did fine and it didn't cost more like you say.

What compatibility problems? What are you talking about?

Stable? Do you mean motherboard issues? Buy a good motherboard and not a peice of crap.

SSE2 optimized aplications have shown better benchmarks for BOTH AMD and Intel processors so the difference isn't as much as some had hoped.

You make it out as if there are huge differences. There aren't. The Price/Performance ratio is the only one. And once that dimminishes it's just a matter of buying a system that excels in your specific task such as Flask encoding or 3Dmax.

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>
November 30, 2001 7:25:03 PM

Thats a truly unbiased post from AMD_Man, as it always is !

I don't care what people say unless it is the truth and they can back it up with evidence. I am open minded to everything.


<font color=blue><i>Mankind must put an end to War,
or War will put an end to mankind!<i></font color=blue>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
November 30, 2001 7:28:26 PM

I would regard the motherboard as the single most important part of any system. Get your choice of motherboard wrong and you are in a world of hurt: Limitations in expansion, limitations in upgradability, stability issues, poor performance, possible incompatability, limited connectivity and to name a few. No other single peice of hardware is as important as the motherboard: The motherboard has more influence on a system than other sinlge componant.

<font color=red>Cyrix 166 + 8MB RAM + 14k baud + 300MB HD + Lynx under MS-DOS...</font color=red><font color=green> Jealous?</font color=green>
November 30, 2001 8:19:27 PM

It has to come after the powersupply, case and monitor.

Powersupply problems will drive you crazy. The computer will either not turn on or it will restart randomly. A poor powersupply can lead to temperature instabilities as well.

The case is what holds everything. A poorly ventilated case is like sitting in a hot car unable to open the windows. Considering that the case is where you put everything I would definitely get a good one. Especially if you're going to play around with you computer a lot. Poor access and cut knuckles are no fun. Having to have 3+ case fans in a system just because the case is a peice of crap and won't let air in or out leads to uneccessary noise as well. I don't like noise.

The monitor is the computer. Without it you have nothing. Since that's what you look at the whole time you might as well get a good one. If you've got the money for a 24" Sony Trinitron then that's what you should get.

The motherboard would come right after these. I don't care how good your board is, using a 2 Ghz machine on a 14" monitor with a .28 dot pitch at 60 Hz isn't cool. Spontaneous reboots and overheating aren't going to help either. Random errors are much worse than anything else I've come across. Granted I haven't had to deal with the VIA issues so I can see how some people would bump the motherboard to the top. Nonetheless you can have a mediocre performance board with only a few pci slots and still have an awesome rig. Get a good vid card, memory, and cpu and there you go...

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>
November 30, 2001 10:12:24 PM

Quote:

"Intel and AMD are both of equal quality" - False, Intel CPUs have more and better features (SSE2, thermal protection, etc.

SSE2 is a feature not quality! Thermal protection, I'll grant that. But I'd say that the chance an AMD processor will fail is about to that of an Intel processor.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
November 30, 2001 10:23:07 PM

I included features because you did not put that in your original post. But I agree, it should be separate.

A P4 will survive in many cases when an Athlon will fry. Your refusing to admit that is no different than any Intel troll refusing to admit that Athlons are faster than P4s.

You should of course have no problems with Athlons overheating and/or frying if you pay attention to what you're doing, but it should still go in Intel's favor.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
November 30, 2001 10:36:17 PM

I would agrue the most important:
Motherboards.
Because this is what EVERY componant of your system is ultimately connected to and functions through. but then as you say, the PSU powers the ship: Perhaps technically the PSU should be the most important. PSU or mobo, then the rest. A bad mobo can cause far more mischief than a monitor ever will.
Not Monitors because:
You do not have to connect your computer to a monitor for it to function, a monitor is merely an output device. You can still work on a PC with a lame monitor. I could quite happily develop programs or run a server with a cheap crappy monitor. What is FAR more important is to have a stable system, but if you are a graphic designer, or like games etc... mobo and monitor should have equal importance.

Not the case because:
Nobody makes cases THAT bad that your system will not function in it... I hope they dont make them that bad anyway ;) .
I hold nearly every componant of a system as nearly equal importance and I never scrimp on monitors - Only the best. But at the end of the day a monitor will not cause as many problems as the mobo can.

Anyways, this is just swings and roundabouts. Some people like apples, others oranges.
I like bannanas.
:) 

<font color=red>Cyrix 166 + 8MB RAM + 14k baud + 300MB HD + Lynx under MS-DOS...</font color=red><font color=green> Jealous?</font color=green>
December 1, 2001 1:16:50 AM

Yes, an Athlon will fry after the heatsink is removed, whereas a Pentium 4 will usually survive.

Solution: don't remove your heatsink.

A quality motherboard's thermal protection will shut down an AMD system if, say, the casefans or CPU fan fail, which is far more likely than the whole HSF assembly falling off.
December 1, 2001 1:31:07 AM

I just admitted thermal protection is a plus for the P4 but it won't be used in a properly set-up computer. Thermal protection is important for a builder, but not important for a user.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 1, 2001 10:48:45 AM

Ok, what happens if your CPU fan fails? This recently happened to someone I know, they went back to their system after an hour or so of being away from it. They found a pool of melted plastic and smoke pouring out from the case! Now that is what I would call an AMDmeltdown! LOL!


<font color=red>Cyrix 166 + 8MB RAM + 14k baud + 300MB HD + Lynx under MS-DOS...</font color=red><font color=green> Jealous?</font color=green>
December 1, 2001 11:39:09 AM

Well, that's still unlikely. I've had a P133 system with a small sleeve fan that's been running for 6 years without a problem.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
December 1, 2001 6:53:50 PM

don't speak such nonesense. Amd processors never fail. You must be some sort of a liar. I better do a backround check.

Run along now little amd zealot, you're not wanted here...
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 1, 2001 9:59:31 PM

rotfl...
HA! Damn it dude, you are funny! I like the background check bit - Hehe, I remember someone did that in another post somewhere.
:smile:
BTW, the CPU didnt fail, the CPU fan did.

AMD Man, true it is a small chance I know. But SHlT happens none the same. I mean, imagine the look on the poor guys face when he came back to a smokin' case!

<font color=red>Cyrix 166 + 8MB RAM + 14k baud + 300MB HD + Lynx under MS-DOS...</font color=red><font color=green> Jealous?</font color=green>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 1, 2001 10:05:48 PM

WTF? FUCKlNG censors! I never realised that this forum was coded by a cybernazi. Why the need for censorship? Are we deemed as children?

<font color=red>Cyrix 166 + 8MB RAM + 14k baud + 300MB HD + Lynx under MS-DOS...</font color=red><font color=green> Jealous?</font color=green>
December 2, 2001 5:01:38 AM

Swearing is a crutch for the conversationally-impaired.

Anyway, if your CPU fan fails, and you have a decent motherboard with good thermal protection, your system will shut off after reaching a certain temperature, like say 75C. Wait a few minutes, power the system back on with the case open, and if the fan isn't spinning, well, there's your problem. Shut it off and go buy a new fan, or a whole HSF assembly, if that's your thing.
December 2, 2001 5:16:50 AM

Is it the BIOS that detects a fault with the CPU fan and stops the boot ?

Danny
December 2, 2001 8:17:24 AM

My MSI board has a bios setting for the shutdown temperature.It can be set between 70C and 90C.So a fan failure in my case won't fry anything.
<crosses fingers>
December 2, 2001 8:50:18 AM

Thanks for that info !

Will check my Epox 8KTA+, never thouht of it !

Danny
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 3, 2001 7:21:17 PM

Quote:

Swearing is a crutch for the conversationally-impaired.

True, but there is nothing more depraving or corrupted than censorship. And of course you never use these words yourself so are not being hypocritical. I made my own psuedo swearwords because I am a forum rebel (without a cause)! hehe, :wink: . I dont generally use words like that in conversation; I just detest censorship of such things. Swearwords are included in dictionaries, what next, censor words like 'idiot' or 'fool' to avoid them being used to mock people thus offending them?

Anyway, I would still rather that my mission critical system not have to shut itself down if the CPU gets too hot.

<font color=red>Cyrix 166 + 8MB RAM + 14k baud + 300MB HD + Lynx under MS-DOS...</font color=red><font color=green> Jealous?</font color=green>
December 4, 2001 2:18:52 AM

"True, but there is nothing more depraving or corrupted than censorship."

We're talking about not being able to use the dirty words on a message board about computers, here. It's not like they're taking away your right to vote or speak your mind. We all censor ourselves every day, unless you go around your place of work (assuming you work in some some of professional environment and/or dealing with the public) swearing for the sake of swearing.

"And of course you never use these words yourself so are not being hypocritical."

I don't swear here because--other than the fact that you CAN'T--there's no reason to. I am able to get my point across without using such "colorful metaphors." Instead of spending your time figuring out ways around it just so you can say "fuc|<" in the latest "AMD! Intel! Less filling! Tastes great!" thread, try putting that effort into your argument.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 4, 2001 6:35:35 PM

No, I am talking about censorship of words.
If they are indeed silly words, why censor them? This isnt about swearing, it is the principal. The only reason I choose to swear was because of the censorship itself. Dont think that I use these words constantly.

You are also very wrong that we "censor" ourselves everyday: We CHOOSE NOT to use certain words, which is entirly different to having words you choose being censored <b>by another party</b>. You are obviously content that a third party can interfere with your chioce of words.
It is a liberty known by the name of "freedom of speech", something I find you take for granted. The fact that I cant exercise this hypothetically means that I am having that liberty taken away and replaced with "semi-freedom of speech". Would you agree?
Quote:
It's not like they're taking away your right to vote or speak your mind

If I happen to want to speak my mind and that includes swear words, I can not do this. Therefore you are wrong.

I do not think that you have been in a situation where you dont have freedom of speech. I have and I take it as the most important right in this world today. I only hope that one day you do not have to find out what it is not to have the freedom of speech. Yes, <b>even</b> though it is a CPU forum, does that make it acceptable to lose a right that many people have died for?

<font color=red>Cyrix 166 + 8MB RAM + 14k baud + 300MB HD + Lynx under MS-DOS...</font color=red><font color=green> Jealous?</font color=green>
December 4, 2001 6:45:13 PM

By agreeing to the rules of this forum, you partially give up your First Amendment rights. If you do not want to abide by the rules, you don't have to be here.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 4, 2001 8:44:40 PM

It is not that I dont want to abide, I never really use swearwords anyway, it is the fact that they do it. The point is that it is a liberty that has been taken for no good reason. I am still yet to hear a good reason. I have only heard "if you dont like"'s or "you shouldnt swear anyway"'s so far. This is the only forum I know that censors words. Can somebody tell me of one good reason why?
A logical reason please.

When I first joined here, I did not recall anything about censorship, how long has this been in place for?

<font color=red>Cyrix 166 + 8MB RAM + 14k baud + 300MB HD + Lynx under MS-DOS...</font color=red><font color=green> Jealous?</font color=green>
December 4, 2001 9:32:24 PM

Quote:
The point is that it is a liberty that has been taken for no good reason.


The good reason is that you agreed to it. That is enough.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
December 4, 2001 11:04:07 PM

There are lots of message boards that censor potenitally offensive language. They do so because it might be read by children, or because they don't think it will be conducive to the discussions. The fact is that you, by registering on this board as a member, have become bound by its rules and regulations, just as you are bound by the rules and regulations of the country in which you reside. In America, you can't drive until you are 16 1/2 years old, buy or use tobacco products until you are 18, buy or use alcohol products until you are 21, and so on.

Here's a better analogy: Say there's a shop in your area that has a sign at the front door that reads "Shirts and Shoes must be worn." You, being (in this scenario) a barefoot, shirtless type, can choose not to patronize that store and find a shop that has no such restrictions...or you can abide by the rules and throw on a tank-top and sandals so that you might do business there. You'll still look like a dirty hippie, so all is not lost. (j/k)

All kidding aside, you've agreed to abide by forum rules by the simple act of posting here. So, then, abide by them.
December 5, 2001 3:10:57 PM

Quote:
In America, you can't drive until you are 16 1/2 years old


16 in all three of the states I've lived in.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 5, 2001 5:35:24 PM

Ok guys, I know what you mean , it is just something that I see as pointless. I dont really care for using these words, it is the principal, thats all. Like I said before, I know what it is like to live without the freedom of speech.
BTW, Has this forum always had this policy? I can not for the life of me remember that words like that were censored when I first joined.
Anyway, lets talk about CPUs now...

PS
Verrrry funny analogy. :-)

<font color=red>Cyrix 166 + 8MB RAM + 14k baud + 300MB HD + Lynx under MS-DOS...</font color=red><font color=green> Jealous?</font color=green>
December 5, 2001 9:25:35 PM

In Massachusetts, it's 16 to get your permit, and you have to wait 6 months before taking the license test. So effectively, it's 16 1/2.
December 5, 2001 9:31:51 PM

That sucks :( 
15 and 16 here.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
December 5, 2001 9:42:28 PM

It's 16 here in Toronto, Canada!! I can't wait 'til I'm 16!

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
!