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Heatsink and fan incl. in Athlon XP retail

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Anonymous
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December 3, 2001 5:13:56 AM

I am just wondering whether you guys think the heat sink and fan that are included in the athlon xp 1800's retail package are good enough for the processor, and also if you would suggest I get another one, and if so, which one.

the motherboard I will be using is the MSI pro2 kt266A.

Thanks!

Nimit
December 3, 2001 5:31:34 AM

if you don't over clock they are ok, but if you do, no.

<font color=red><b><i>you</i> keep talking i'll pretend i'm listening.</b></font color=red>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 3, 2001 5:59:00 AM

what do you mean okay? I am not planning on over clocking, does that mean that I need not buy new ones? and that they will be sufficient?

Thanks.
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Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 3, 2001 7:28:11 AM

Retail fan + heatsink should be just fine.

No need to worry.

You may want to install a 80mm fan for the exhaust though. It helped reducing the temps of my T-Bird for 4-5 degrees.

But even without the exhaust fan, it was running OK.

<font color=blue>Get a T-Bird...
Impressive CPU + House heater in one package. What do you need more?</font color=blue>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 3, 2001 11:46:27 AM

In my opinion, you should get a better quality fan -- even if you don't overclock.

Recently, I purchased a retail boxed XP 1900+, only to have the included HSF not work. As a consequence, the CPU went up in smoke in around 5 seconds.

*OUCH*

So I got a slightly less expensive XP 1800+ but with a Thermaltake mini orb instead. My system runs at around 40C non-overclocked, to as high as 44C overclocked at a speed of 2000+

Perhaps you will experience similar results.

RJD
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 3, 2001 3:33:45 PM

wouldn't that be under the warranty if THEIR heat sink fan didn't work?

Also, if i WAS to get another heat sink, where do you think I should get it and which one? I don't have too much to spend at all, probably under $40 or so. maybe around there. but no more, my budget is tight.

Thanks.
December 3, 2001 8:09:19 PM

You can get a similar performance but with a very money-saving way: Xp1600.
The price is very good and is no way that far from the 1800, so if you still want to pay 40$ you now can!
December 3, 2001 8:53:48 PM

i would!
if that happened to me i would go immidiately back to the place where i got it and demand a replacement.

Excuse me for a moment. I need to drive my ergonomic wheely chair over a sheet of bubble wrap!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 3, 2001 11:26:58 PM

<i>..."wouldn't that be under the warranty if THEIR heat sink fan didn't work?.."</i>

It sure would. Which is why I am currently pursuing that route -- even though AMD appears to be dragging their feet; i.e. haven't heard from them in a week.

If you're looking for another fan that is of good quality my suggestion is either the GlobalWin Fop38/32 series, or a Thermaltake mini orb with copper plating.

The GlobalWin fans either can be ordered online, or picked up at any local computer fair for around $25

Good luck

RJD
December 3, 2001 11:35:10 PM

ORBS = bad.

They have a tendancy of damaging the core

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
December 3, 2001 11:41:12 PM

I don't see how the CPU can go up in smoke in only 5 seconds because of a HSF failure. If the fan is dead the CPU should still last longer than 5 seconds (Assuming the HSF was not damaged and you seated the heatsink properly).
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 4, 2001 8:55:16 AM

You're correct on the orb pitfalls, specifically during the installation phase. But under the circumstances, I'd rather have a fan that WORKS in the interim instead of losing yet another CPU and 200 more bucks. Besides, I plan to purchase and install another GlobalWin in the near future.

System Specs:

Athlon XP 1800+ ( OC'd to 1610 MHz@140 FSB )
EPOX 8KHA+
One 512 Kingston DDR Cas 2.5 stick.
Two IBM ATA-100 HDD'S ( 45 GB, 40 GB )
16X DVD ROM
Riva TNT2 64 pro AGP
PCTEL Platinuum v.90 Modem
Realtek 10/100 Ethernet card
350W Generic PSU

RJD
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 4, 2001 9:08:00 AM

Yeah well, it still went up in smoke in that short period of time regardless, despite the fact it was properly attached. In many years of assembling various systems, this is the first time I have lost a CPU in this manner.

RJD
December 4, 2001 10:22:40 AM

Could it be that you did not install the fan on the cpu right?

Things happen.
December 4, 2001 12:52:16 PM

God, I hope AMDMeltdown doesn't see this.

"There's no such thing as gravity, the Earth just sucks"
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 4, 2001 12:56:53 PM

Hardly. Kinda on the highly unlikely side since I am an A+ certified tech with many years of experience building systems, albeit Intel, Cyrix, or AMD.

RJD
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 4, 2001 1:53:24 PM

No insult intended - but i'm a support tech - I make mistakes - these things can happen - we are only human. Theres always a first time.
But you maybe right - it could have been a faulty product.

<font color=purple><b>Techie2001</font color=purple></b>
<i>(Forum Techie)</i>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 4, 2001 9:53:52 PM

Lemme give you an example.

When I popped in the stock HSF, I did see it turn, so I initially figured at the time the fan was going to be OK. Unfortunately that proved to be NOT the case, since there had been a God awful smell from around 5 to 10 seconds eminating from the CPU area. By then I knew something serious was going on. ( I eventually tested that fan, and determined it was not turning at anywhere near the rated 5500 RPM )

So I immediately hit the kill switch cutting all power, but it had proved to be too late -- the CPU having discernable burnt marks surrounding the core.

It will be interesting if AMD really chooses to honor their 3 warranty under these circumstances. As of this typing, it appears they are dragging their feet on this. However, I plan to pursue this matter with the utmost vigour until I get at least *some* sort of redress to this matter.

Otherwise, I now have one of the best systems I've ever put together :) 

RJD
December 5, 2001 5:00:43 AM

Don't the HSF on the retail's already come pre attached to the cpu?

-¤ Shut the f*ck up or go AMD ¤-
December 5, 2001 2:59:51 PM

No, because heatsinks attach to the motherboard, not the CPU :) 

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 6, 2001 2:45:02 AM

What about the noise generated by the HSF. I just replaced a 6cu+ on my TB 900 because it was way too loud at 7000rpm. You'll need a heftier HSF for your processor of course but I would consider the noise if your machine is going in a bedroom or is being used for multimedia apps. Maybe you could try the variable speed fans that have come out recently.
December 6, 2001 4:57:29 AM

well u can always put on a slower fan...
or buy a HSF with a slower fan.
there are alot of very decent ones out there, if your not overclocking.

or you can go sophisticated, and get a 80mm to 60mm converter and a 80mm fan.
lots of air, less noise

Excuse me for a moment. I need to drive my ergonomic wheely chair over a sheet of bubble wrap!
December 6, 2001 6:28:03 AM

Rjd? a mini orb? you FUD spreading liar.

YOu do NOT need a better fan if you do NOT overclock, and a mini orb is waaay not enough for a cpu, so take your fud elsewhere.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
December 6, 2001 6:38:34 AM

my friend just fried his T-Bird cause his HSF didnt make much contact with the core (he has a swiftech) cause he was too much in a rush to screw it in all the way (he was testing different cpu's on his board)and he told me that after a good 10-20 seconds after boot up was when his system crashed..it was about to load windows and then it fried. You say 5 seconds and the core is different, even if you had contact with the HS (no fan) to the core, it should have lasted longer then 5 seconds. I know you might say its cause its a swiftech blah blah blah, well i did that with my T-Bird on its stock HSF, where i forgot to plug in the fan but the HSF was making contact and believe it or not, i booted up windows! I just dont believe your cpu would blow after 5 seconds if the HS was touching the core
December 6, 2001 3:32:22 PM

Calm down, Mat. I think you misread his post. He's building an AMD rig in the near future, and was talking about how his mini orb sucked. What's wrong with that?

This was interesting, though:
Quote:
I am an A+ certified tech with many years of experience building systems, albeit Intel, Cyrix, or AMD.


Quote:
systems, <font color=red>although</font color=red> Intel, Cyrix, or AMD.


Heh, I think you need to pull out the dictionary again :) 
Or maybe I do, who knows.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 6, 2001 10:24:01 PM

Hey punk, do you always hurl insults at people who are only trying to explain their experiences, experiences YOU may not agree or "approve" of??

*rolling eyes*

Besides, I'd very much like to see you garner just as much courage calling me a liar IN PERSON without using the anonymity of the net as a security blanket. Rest assured Hell will be freezing over on that momentous occasion.
December 6, 2001 10:32:30 PM

RJD, Mat's on a bit of an edge at the moment, so please cut him some slack. He just misread your post.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
December 6, 2001 10:42:23 PM

RJDMay I ask why you have an Athlon XP 1800+ and a TNT2 M64 as well as a RAID? Is your system strictly for business or do you play games. BTW, I don't consider your advice accurate, the retail HSF is better than a mini orb.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
December 6, 2001 11:53:16 PM

calm down sir, by making threats over a forumn doesnt make you look too shabby neither. And like i posted before, i also do not agree that the HSF is not good enough, dont threaten me next
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 7, 2001 1:09:47 AM

Listen little boy, if someone called YOU a liar without any verifiable info to back that claim, I'd seriously doubt you or anyone else would take such outragious insults lying down. Therefore, I have every reason to be upset whether you or anybody else likes it or not.

Now as for making threats are concerned, no one is making threats against anyone except the brainless geek variety who at the very least DESERVE to be taken to task on excercising bad net manners -- in which the professional Trolls or Neanderthals should either be suspended or banned on this message forum as a result.

Better yet, their mommy and daddy should be establishling strict supervision on computer use altogether.

A word to the wise should be sufficient.
December 7, 2001 1:22:10 AM

fried his CPU using a swiftech...
sad.

well i suppose if your in such a hurry one can possibly balls it up.

nothing suceeds like haste and/or incompetence.

Excuse me for a moment. I need to drive my ergonomic wheely chair over a sheet of bubble wrap!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 7, 2001 1:33:15 AM

<i>..."BTW, I don't consider your advice accurate, the retail HSF is better than a mini orb..."</i>

First of all, I <b>never</b> said that the mini orb was a superior product to *ALL* Cool Master style HSF's per se. In the past, I've used those particular HSF's with great success, provided there is no overclocking. Unfortunately, when I recently purchased the XP 1900+ retail boxed version, that particular stock fan had proved to be defective. Right now I'm using the ever reliable GlobalWin Fop38 on my system as a more permanent fixture.

<i>..."RJDMay I ask why you have an Athlon XP 1800+ and a TNT2 M64 as well as a RAID? Is your system strictly for business or do you play games..."</i>

It is indeed strictly for business use. Moreover, I'm also running NT4 as a webserver on the secondary HDD, so there is really no *need* to go out and get a GForce 3 Titanium or any comparable high end AGP card.

RJD
December 7, 2001 5:59:52 AM

yea, he fried it with a swiftech..its not that easy screwing em screws in, then taking that huge hunk a metal out then reseating the cpu and re-aligning em screws for the fan to fit onto the heatsink and so forth..but yea..he didnt screw it it all the way so it didnt make direct contact..also i forgot to mention that he was overclocking..and as for RJD..LoLz..now ya call me a lil boy..its alright..im not so immature to make threats nor make stupid prejudice comments..have a good day/night...
December 7, 2001 7:53:01 AM

Quote:
So I got a slightly less expensive XP 1800+ but with a Thermaltake mini orb instead. My system runs at around 40C non-overclocked, to as high as 44C overclocked at a speed of 2000+

Perhaps you will experience similar results.

RJD



Correct me if I am wrong, but is not a mini super orb a graphics chip cooler?

If it is not, I appologize for my calling him a liar, however I still HIGHLY doubt his 5 second claim, which was the jist of the reason behind my calling him a fud spreading liar.


His reply was laughable, and I expect he thinks next I will give him my address and tell him to come prove to me he can kick my ass.....LOL

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
December 7, 2001 7:56:41 AM

I deny his 5 second claim, but I did misread his origional post, It looked as if he was reccomending a mini orb for overclocking, hence the fud spreading liar remark.

I withdrawl the comment in light of my re reading his post, in which he stated he was using the mini orb while waiting for a new cpu(although he claims to have it overclocked alot, which I dont believe, but it isnt worthy of a fud spewing liar comment.)

I appologize for any frazzled nerves.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
December 7, 2001 8:54:52 AM

well i screwed the same screws in...
and to be perfrectly honest,
if your friend cant do it he doesnt deserve to have a swiftech cauz their aint many easier ways to attach a heatsink...
oh... and i just read the instructions...
they say...
"While gently pressing on the center of the heatsink, start tightening the screws gradually in a criss cross pattern until you feel they reach the bottom of the standoff. A finger tight lock is sufficient...."

and it goes on...

"...adjustments such as only partially tightening the screws is STRICTLY PROHIBITED..."
the last two words being in bold.
hopefully his fried cpu has taught him to FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS.

call me a bastard, but ive had a long day of dealing with morons. apologies if this offends.


Excuse me for a moment. I need to drive my ergonomic wheely chair over a sheet of bubble wrap!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 7, 2001 11:08:57 AM

<i>..."its alright..im not so immature to make threats nor make stupid prejudice comments..."</i>

LOL -- I find your level of hypocrisy quite amazing to say the least.

Like calling someone a liar *isn't* being immature yourself, or dishing out stupid prejudice comments the way <b>YOU </b> did.

Whatever you've been smoking dude, it sure as hell ain't the tobacco variety.
December 8, 2001 7:33:02 AM

i never called anyone a liar nor made any prejudging remarks..get your facts straight bud
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 8, 2001 8:40:02 AM

Facts??? Did you say facts???

You wouldn't know what the word meant if your miserable life depended on it -- so why should I even bother reasoning with village idiots like you and Matisaro?

You're <b>both</b> in the same boat as far as I'm concerned in terms of having IQ's slightly larger than your shoe size. Therefore, it's utterly pointless to go on reasoning with troll morons like yourselves.

Waving bye bye....
December 8, 2001 11:38:45 AM

LoL, village idiot am I?

Run along rjd, your pointless insults are not needed.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
December 8, 2001 3:26:26 PM

Sorry I must laugh for a second Mat, you know i respect you, it's just funny, cuz i think thsi is the first time I've seen AMD users go head to head with eachother.....heh heh....im suprised FUGGER and Intel_Inside or amdMELTDOWN havent said anything.....lol

Anyways, can't you all just be happy ? common, grab soem alcohol and you'll feel better =)

FatBurger knows..... :wink:

heh heh

-MeTaL RoCkEr

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=13597" target="_new"> <b> My Rig </b> </A>
December 8, 2001 11:34:16 PM

I told him I misread his post and apologized, and he keeps up with the childish(and stupid I may add) insults, poor boy dosent know whats what.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 9, 2001 11:19:49 AM

<i>..."LoL, village idiot am I?..."</i>

WOW -- you actually admitted it for a change. Goody Goody for you. There just may be hope for you after all :)  :) 

<i>..."Run along rjd, your pointless insults are not needed..."</i>

There you go again -- blame the other guy's "pointless insults" without so much as looking in the mirror for a plausable answer. Sorry but making face saving phoney apologies, and other patently absurd comments will not make me "run along" in your words, and never will. Being a 10 year veteran of net message boards has given me sufficient insight in witnessing ill-mannered geeks come and go like sparks in a fireplace, with you being just another Dime a Dozen, Johnny Come Lately. As a result, I have zero tolerance in suffering fools too kindly. Now somehow if you can manage in getting <i> some </i> sort of a meaningful <b> life </b> put together for yourself, perhaps then we just <i>may </i> finally have at the very least a half way civilized conversation for a change, you think?
December 9, 2001 12:06:17 PM

Quote:
..."LoL, village idiot am I?..."

WOW -- you actually admitted it for a change. Goody Goody for you. There just may be hope for you after all :)  :) 

Cant you read you moron, the ? denotes that as a question, not a statement. However your inability to read would not be a surprise considering both your inability to clearly write a sentence which led up to this misunderstanding, and your inability to properly install a heatsink leading you to fry your athlon like a dumbass moron.

Your pointless insults are NOT needed, and if you think your 10 years experience posting at www.dipshit.org and your long time system building experience(IE, you built 1 computer and you fried the cpu twice before getting it right even then) gives you the right to insult me and others on this forum, of which you are a newbie.... then you are indeed as stupid as your posts make you sound.

Quote:
Now somehow if you can manage in getting some sort of a meaningful life put together for yourself, perhaps then we just may finally have at the very least a half way civilized conversation for a change, you think?

LoL, you have no idea what kind of life I have you pathetic loser, and to insinuate that you can judge a persons entire worth and success from a post on a message board only serves to demonstrate your ignorance and stupidity for the world to see. I usually dont stoop to flaming retards like yourself when they act the part of forum moron, but the level of stupidity I am getting from you in your brainless attempt to flame me is more than I can bear silently. If you need some solace take it in the fact that I was forced to stoop to your level for one post, and may I say it stinks down here, how can you live with yourself mr 10 year internet forum veteran. You waste of internet bandwith which you call posts are ignorant, poorly written, and leave much to be desired in the way of content. If you want to flame me a little more by all means do so, I will not be replying, your posts have no value, and are not worthy of response.
Now go play with your mini orb and cry about the injustices of the world to someone who gives a damn.



"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 9, 2001 3:28:56 PM

Well my my -- for someone who has most defintely gone off the deep end...that's quite a rant from a consumate tweaker. So tell me kookoo's Nest kiddo, what will be next on your drug hit list? Pure China White? Guess that Meth wore out its welcome eh? Figures.

At any rate, your pea brained, juvenile and mannerless attitude has now become one big <b>bore. </b> In a way, I'm most disappointed in you -- I'd thought you'd present at least a somewhat bigger challenge then what I've seen so far, which wouldn't muster your way out of pre-school.

But, so be it. It's <b> your </b> life ( that is, what's left of it ) Noone is going to force you how to live your life intelligently, and with meaning --that all has to come from <b> within </b> my boy, you dig Amigo?

Can't put it any simpler then that.

The best of luck to ya -- you is going to need it pronto.
December 9, 2001 3:57:25 PM

RJD,you jerk!
PLEASE,just go away .
And stay there.
December 9, 2001 9:32:42 PM

mm - no, he is talking about a current production system, apparently smoked 1900+ in 5 seconds due to fan not working (heatsink apparently correctly installed) and now using an 1800+@ 1.6G with a MiniOrb.

I have to say the 5 seconds with a hsf fitted is odd, but maybe the cpu was just plain defective, not a heatsink/fan issue?

-* <font color=red> Under Offer </font color=red> *-
email for application details
December 9, 2001 9:42:55 PM

I think the AMD Retail HSF that comes with the Athlon XP are just fine. I have a Athlon XP 1600 + (1.4 GHz) on a MSI K7T266 Pro2-RU, and it runs just fine oc to 1.522 GHz (10.5 x 145 MHz). CPU temp stays around 110F. If I run this cpu within spec, it's at a cool 98F.

No extra case fans. The side of the case is usually open, but no appreciable temp increase if I put the side back on.

It is very easy to improperly attach the HSF to a processor. The instructions from AMD, Intel, and motherboard manufactures all repeatedly advise you to take care when attaching HSF. Also, we have the problem with some motherboards not have the heat sensors as was pointed out by THG elsewhere and THG video.

Besides, how are you going to prove that the HSF or the CPU was faulty? Those of you who did not use the retail HSF that came in the box have an even harder burden to prove a defective product.

I suspect that, if the HSF that comes with the new AMD processors were inherently inadequate to do the job, then AMD would have far more returns and defective product claims than we have seen thus far, which seems to be very, very few.

Now we know why the warranty period is longer for the retail product than for the OEM product. How can AMD be held responsible for a burnt up cpu when an OEM purchaser chooses his/her own HSF? Seems to me OEM purchasers are to held accountable for their own F_ck ups.
December 9, 2001 9:50:31 PM

well if i understand thermodynamics (and i should cauz i studied it lol)

without a fan working the "time till heat lockup" should be dependent mostly on the mass of the heatsink, taking into account the differing thermal adsorption properties of auminium or copper.
with passive cooling & surface area progressibly becomming more influential as the temps exceen ambient, but not to the point of reaching equilibrium.

thus large bulky HS's will last the longest, have the shallowest temp gradient, with the possibility of passive cooling being sufficient to prevent complete lockup
(saw a review of a failed fan on a swiftech, the HS got to 70+ before he noticed, but it didnt crash)

so the question really is... how big is that mini orb, whats its mass and metal composition, and of course, was it REALLY seated properly?

even a mini orb should last more than 5 seconds.




Excuse me for a moment. I need to drive my ergonomic wheely chair over a sheet of bubble wrap!
December 9, 2001 10:36:16 PM

Well, I'm using a HSF scavenged out of a Compaq. I've got a 1.2/200 Athlon OC to 1.333 (133x10). My temps are:

Normal load-CPU 45C, chassis 36C

Burn-in (100% load)-CPU 47-48, chassis 36C

Who says retail HSF are crap? This scavenged one is just that. a generic OEM. If his CPU burned up in 5 sec, either his CPU was DOA, or he didn't install that bugger properly. Period, end of discussion.

Dorr, Michigan (home)
!