upgrading bios for WinXP SP2 install

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Hi group,
Dell recommends flashing your bios to make sure you have the latest one, if
you install XP SP2.

Is that really necessary? I've heard nothing but horror stories about
flashing bios, and since I've already upgraded to SP2, I'm not having any
noticable problems.

Do I need to upgrade my bios? (I have a Dell Dimension 8250.)

Thanks in advance for your advice,
Jeff

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

If everything is running OK let it alone.

I've also flashed many BIOS without a problem.

"Jeff Gillan" <nospamever@cox12.net> wrote in message
news:rgG7d.7125$mS1.6791@fed1read05...
> Hi group,
> Dell recommends flashing your bios to make sure you have the latest one,
> if you install XP SP2.
>
> Is that really necessary? I've heard nothing but horror stories about
> flashing bios, and since I've already upgraded to SP2, I'm not having any
> noticable problems.
>
> Do I need to upgrade my bios? (I have a Dell Dimension 8250.)
>
> Thanks in advance for your advice,
> Jeff
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Jeff Gillan" <nospamever@cox12.net> wrote in message
news:rgG7d.7125$mS1.6791@fed1read05...
> Hi group,
> Dell recommends flashing your bios to make sure you have the latest one,
if
> you install XP SP2.
>
> Is that really necessary?

Yes, always flash the latest BIOS carefully.

> I've heard nothing but horror stories about
> flashing bios,

Just old wives' tales.

> and since I've already upgraded to SP2, I'm not having any
> noticable problems.

Always flash the latest BIOS carefully.

> Do I need to upgrade my bios? (I have a Dell Dimension 8250.)

Yes.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"joe_tide" <joetide@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:10lud7m3p3su595@corp.supernews.com...
> If everything is running OK let it alone.

NO, don't wait for a problem. Preempt any problems. Always flash the
latest BIOS carefully.

> I've also flashed many BIOS without a problem.

Exactly, if done carefully there is only a tiny risk.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 23:19:22 GMT, Ron Reaugh wrote in
<news:_HG7d.657471$Gx4.177078@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>:

>> If everything is running OK let it alone.
>
> NO, don't wait for a problem. Preempt any problems. Always flash the
> latest BIOS carefully.

Wrong answer. As is the rule for anything with computers, if it's working
fine now why mess with it?

My 8400 has worked fine with the original BIOS (A01) since I got it. I
wouldn't suddenly flash the BIOS just because it's there. What if a
problem develops because of the new BIOS? Now I have to flash back to the
old. That's twice now I've risked rendering my system unusable just
because "it's there".

>> I've also flashed many BIOS without a problem.
>
> Exactly, if done carefully there is only a tiny risk.

I'd be willing to bet if you rendered a motherboard inoperable you wouldn't
feel this way. ;-)

Dave
--
You can talk about us, but you can't talk without us!
US Army Signal Corps!!

http://www.geocities.com/davidcasey98

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Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"David Casey" <sgtcasey@IH8SPAMcableone.net> wrote in message
news:ay86zt9si85p.dlg@sgtcaseycableone.net...
> On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 23:19:22 GMT, Ron Reaugh wrote in
> <news:_HG7d.657471$Gx4.177078@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>:
>
> >> If everything is running OK let it alone.
> >
> > NO, don't wait for a problem. Preempt any problems. Always flash the
> > latest BIOS carefully.
>
> Wrong answer.

You are wrong. That's 1998 think. All the true computer experts figured
about 2000 that flashing the latest BIOS was always the best procedure.

> As is the rule for anything with computers, if it's working
> fine now why mess with it?

That is not now nor was it EVER anykind of computer rule. The rule has
always been much closer to keep current or it will bite you.

> My 8400 has worked fine with the original BIOS (A01) since I got it. I
> wouldn't suddenly flash the BIOS just because it's there. What if a
> problem develops because of the new BIOS?

DUH, flash back to the old one. The likelihood of a new BIOS causing
problems is LOW.

> Now I have to flash back to the
> old. That's twice now I've risked rendering my system unusable just
> because "it's there".

Clueless. The risk of flashing carefully is miniscule.

> >> I've also flashed many BIOS without a problem.
> >
> > Exactly, if done carefully there is only a tiny risk.
>
> I'd be willing to bet if you rendered a motherboard inoperable you
wouldn't
> feel this way. ;-)

HUH! It most cases it's relatively easy to recover from a flash gone bad.
90% of the time an interrupted flash(unlikely to happen) does NOT render a
mobo unusuable or unflashable. How much does a mobo cost..maybe $100? How
much does a replacement BIOS cost...maybe $50?

The greatest cost of a system is the maintenance and debugging time. Just
once get a problem and work on it for a few days to find that a simple BIOS
flash is all that was needed. THEN you'll always flash the latest BIOS
preemptively.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Jeff;
If I knew in advance a BIOS flash is recommended, I would probably
flash the BIOS.

However your case is different.
You have already successfully installed SP-2 and have no problems.

As long as the latest BIOS has nothing else to offer, stay where you
are at.
The old rule "If it is not broke, don't fix it" applies with a BIOS
flash more than many other things in a computer.

A bad flash. however remote, can turn a motherboard into a
paperweight.
There may or may not be fixes available depending on what goes wrong.
The chance is slight, but there is a chance.
And with nothing to gain and a motherboard to lose, leave it be.

--
Jupiter Jones
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"Jeff Gillan" <nospamever@cox12.net> wrote in message
news:rgG7d.7125$mS1.6791@fed1read05...
> Hi group,
> Dell recommends flashing your bios to make sure you have the latest
> one, if you install XP SP2.
>
> Is that really necessary? I've heard nothing but horror stories
> about flashing bios, and since I've already upgraded to SP2, I'm not
> having any noticable problems.
>
> Do I need to upgrade my bios? (I have a Dell Dimension 8250.)
>
> Thanks in advance for your advice,
> Jeff

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Ron;
What is the source for this?
Your use of the words "All" and "always" are strong indicators to the
falsehood of this statement.
Or perhaps you have a different definition of "true computer experts"
than others?

--
Jupiter Jones
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote in message
news:fxI7d.475292$OB3.318195@bgtnsc05-
> You are wrong. That's 1998 think. All the true computer experts
> figured
> about 2000 that flashing the latest BIOS was always the best
> procedure.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Jeff Gillan" <nospamever@cox12.net> wrote in
news:rgG7d.7125$mS1.6791@fed1read05:

> Hi group,
> Dell recommends flashing your bios to make sure you have the latest
> one, if you install XP SP2.
>
> Is that really necessary? I've heard nothing but horror stories about
> flashing bios, and since I've already upgraded to SP2, I'm not having
> any noticable problems.
>
> Do I need to upgrade my bios? (I have a Dell Dimension 8250.)
>
> Thanks in advance for your advice,

Although it has been a long time since doing so, I have had a few BIOS
upgrades. All went well, except that one on my Dimension 4100 that just
wouldn't actually do anything - no upgrade, and no damage from trying.

My Dimension 8100 came with A05 or A06 (I don't recall which at the
moment). I think the upgrades ended with about A10, before starting the
BIOS upgrades meant for Windows XP. When I decided to go from WinME to
WinXP, I did not upgrade the BIOS - even now with WinXP Pro SP2
installed, it continues to work great.

--
Tom McCune
My PGP Page & FAQ: http://www.McCune.cc/PGP.htm

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Jupiter Jones" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message
news:dHI7d.12275$223.9858@edtnps89...
> Jeff;
> If I knew in advance a BIOS flash is recommended, I would probably
> flash the BIOS.
>
> However your case is different.
> You have already successfully installed SP-2 and have no problems.
>
> As long as the latest BIOS has nothing else to offer,

One never knows what a new BIOS has to offer. Most of the changes, fixes and
new features in a new BIOS are NOT documented. Ever see a listing of which
CPU microcode version is contained in any given BIOS?

> stay where you
> are at.
> The old rule "If it is not broke, don't fix it" applies with a BIOS
> flash more than many other things in a computer.

WRONG! Catch-up.

> A bad flash. however remote, can turn a motherboard into a
> paperweight.

Turning a mobo into a paperwight is vastly less likely than even a bad flash
which is ALSO rather unlikely if done carefully. You are taking a totally
unfounded chicken little position.

> There may or may not be fixes available depending on what goes wrong.
> The chance is slight, but there is a chance.

There is a much bigger chance that always keeping your BIOS current will
save much more money than EVER suffering the miniscule chance of a mobo
replacement(~$100).

> And with nothing to gain and a motherboard to lose, leave it be.

There is MUCH to gain. Do you know anything about BIOSs at all?

Do you turn on Automatic Updates as MS recommends. Do you install the
latest device drivers? Do you install the latest program updates? All are
things that most have found to be the best policy. BIOS are NO different.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 02:17:36 GMT, Ron Reaugh wrote in
<news:3jJ7d.657927$Gx4.627682@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>:

>> If I knew in advance a BIOS flash is recommended, I would probably
>> flash the BIOS.
>>
>> However your case is different.
>> You have already successfully installed SP-2 and have no problems.
>>
>> As long as the latest BIOS has nothing else to offer,
>
> One never knows what a new BIOS has to offer. Most of the changes, fixes and
> new features in a new BIOS are NOT documented. Ever see a listing of which
> CPU microcode version is contained in any given BIOS?

Sure you do have an idea what a new BIOS version has to offer. There is
usually a text file of some sort that outlines the changes from the
previous version.

[snip]

>> A bad flash. however remote, can turn a motherboard into a
>> paperweight.
>
> Turning a mobo into a paperwight is vastly less likely than even a bad flash
> which is ALSO rather unlikely if done carefully. You are taking a totally
> unfounded chicken little position.

It is still a chance and it's a chance I'd rather not take. Why mess with
something that is working fine? Do you run your car to the shop and ask
them to put on new brakes when the current ones are working fine?

>> There may or may not be fixes available depending on what goes wrong.
>> The chance is slight, but there is a chance.
>
> There is a much bigger chance that always keeping your BIOS current will
> save much more money than EVER suffering the miniscule chance of a mobo
> replacement(~$100).

Hmmmm I don't see how a current BIOS will save me any money at home.
However, I doubt if Dell would be happy to sell me a new 8400 motherboard
for around $100.

>> And with nothing to gain and a motherboard to lose, leave it be.
>
> There is MUCH to gain. Do you know anything about BIOSs at all?

Like what? If I were to update the BIOS in my 8400 from A01 to A02 what
exactly would I gain that I need to use?

> Do you turn on Automatic Updates as MS recommends. Do you install the
> latest device drivers? Do you install the latest program updates? All are
> things that most have found to be the best policy. BIOS are NO different.

The difference is that a problem installing device drivers doesn't render
the device inoperable. However, on that note about the only device on my
system which I regularly update the drivers on is my graphics card.
Everything else works fine so why should I bother until I have a problem
with something?

Dave
--
You can talk about us, but you can't talk without us!
US Army Signal Corps!!

http://www.geocities.com/davidcasey98

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Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Jupiter Jones" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message
news:UKI7d.12276$223.11591@edtnps89...
> Ron;
> What is the source for this?

Common snese and all the best computer experts around since baout 2000
allways flash the latest BIOS.

> Your use of the words "All" and "always" are strong indicators to the
> falsehood of this statement.

No, they are strong indicators of ignorance by the nay sayers.

> Or perhaps you have a different definition of "true computer experts"
> than others?

Go back to school.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 02:17:47 GMT, Ron Reaugh wrote in
<news:fjJ7d.475534$OB3.473653@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>:

>> Ron;
>> What is the source for this?
>
> Common snese and all the best computer experts around since baout 2000
> allways flash the latest BIOS.

Interesting. The folks I know say flashing the BIOS isn't a good idea
unless you have a problem and need the new BIOS to fix it. My sources are
the fine folks on the forums at www.amdmb.com among other online forums.

>> Your use of the words "All" and "always" are strong indicators to the
>> falsehood of this statement.
>
> No, they are strong indicators of ignorance by the nay sayers.

Hey, it's your money. ;-)

>> Or perhaps you have a different definition of "true computer experts"
>> than others?
>
> Go back to school.

Typical. If you can't bring any facts, attack the person you're replying
to. I was merely expressing my opinion. If you don't like it that's fine.
You do things your way, the rest of us will do them ours.

Dave
--
You can talk about us, but you can't talk without us!
US Army Signal Corps!!

http://www.geocities.com/davidcasey98

Remove IH8SPAM to reply by email!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Support your statements with facts.
What is your source?
Or is it just your opinion?
Your opinion is one thing, but you have made these statements as
facts.
If you can't support your own statements "Common snese" dictates you
do not really know.

Who are "all the best computer experts around since baout 2000"?
Who are they?
I asked this question before and you ignored it.
Why?
You don't know?

Look at your original statement again.
"Common snese" is not a reference.

"No, they are strong indicators of ignorance by the nay sayers"
Really? They are your words.
So you are saying you are ignorant?

If you can not prove your statements, they are your opinion at best
and should not be taken as fact.
You are a long way from the authoritative source necessary to validate
the statements you have made.

Can you answer the question?
Or is your answer simply "ignorance by the nay sayers"?

--
Jupiter Jones
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote in message
news:fjJ7d.475534$OB3.473653@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "Jupiter Jones" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message
> news:UKI7d.12276$223.11591@edtnps89...
>> Ron;
>> What is the source for this?
>
> Common snese and all the best computer experts around since baout
> 2000
> allways flash the latest BIOS.
>
>> Your use of the words "All" and "always" are strong indicators to
>> the
>> falsehood of this statement.
>
> No, they are strong indicators of ignorance by the nay sayers.
>
>> Or perhaps you have a different definition of "true computer
>> experts"
>> than others?
>
> Go back to school.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Can you personally guarantee a BIOS upgrade will not render a
motherboard a paper weight?
If yes, put in a legal document for all to hold you accountable.
If not, you apparently agree my statement is true "A bad flash.
however remote, can turn a motherboard into a paperweight."
This time notice the words I wrote "...however remote..."
That does not suggest a high probability or even a specific
probability.
And it is not "chicken little".
People need to know there is risk however remote the possibility when
something is done.
Why do you think people should not be informed?
Do you think people are not smart enough to make an informed decision?
You even say "rather unlikely if done carefully."
Can a bad flash happen or not?
That is a yes or no question.
The % of success can be debated elsewhere.

BIOS IS different.
None of the other things have turned a motherboard a paper weight.

And no, I leave Automatic Updates off because I can do the job better
on my computers.

--
Jupiter Jones
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote in message
news:3jJ7d.657927$Gx4.627682@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "Jupiter Jones" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message
> news:dHI7d.12275$223.9858@edtnps89...
>> Jeff;
>> If I knew in advance a BIOS flash is recommended, I would probably
>> flash the BIOS.
>>
>> However your case is different.
>> You have already successfully installed SP-2 and have no problems.
>>
>> As long as the latest BIOS has nothing else to offer,
>
> One never knows what a new BIOS has to offer. Most of the changes,
> fixes and
> new features in a new BIOS are NOT documented. Ever see a listing
> of which
> CPU microcode version is contained in any given BIOS?
>
>> stay where you
>> are at.
>> The old rule "If it is not broke, don't fix it" applies with a BIOS
>> flash more than many other things in a computer.
>
> WRONG! Catch-up.
>
>> A bad flash. however remote, can turn a motherboard into a
>> paperweight.
>
> Turning a mobo into a paperwight is vastly less likely than even a
> bad flash
> which is ALSO rather unlikely if done carefully. You are taking a
> totally
> unfounded chicken little position.
>
>> There may or may not be fixes available depending on what goes
>> wrong.
>> The chance is slight, but there is a chance.
>
> There is a much bigger chance that always keeping your BIOS current
> will
> save much more money than EVER suffering the miniscule chance of a
> mobo
> replacement(~$100).
>
>> And with nothing to gain and a motherboard to lose, leave it be.
>
> There is MUCH to gain. Do you know anything about BIOSs at all?
>
> Do you turn on Automatic Updates as MS recommends. Do you install
> the
> latest device drivers? Do you install the latest program updates?
> All are
> things that most have found to be the best policy. BIOS are NO
> different.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Ok, so for all to see you jumped-off into wackodom.

"Jupiter Jones" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message
news:%1K7d.12295$223.11691@edtnps89...
> Can you personally guarantee a BIOS upgrade will not render a
> motherboard a paper weight?
> If yes, put in a legal document for all to hold you accountable.
> If not, you apparently agree my statement is true "A bad flash.
> however remote, can turn a motherboard into a paperweight."
> This time notice the words I wrote "...however remote..."
> That does not suggest a high probability or even a specific
> probability.
> And it is not "chicken little".
> People need to know there is risk however remote the possibility when
> something is done.
> Why do you think people should not be informed?
> Do you think people are not smart enough to make an informed decision?
> You even say "rather unlikely if done carefully."
> Can a bad flash happen or not?
> That is a yes or no question.
> The % of success can be debated elsewhere.
>
> BIOS IS different.
> None of the other things have turned a motherboard a paper weight.
>
> And no, I leave Automatic Updates off because I can do the job better
> on my computers.


>
> --
> Jupiter Jones
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/
>
>
> "Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote in message
> news:3jJ7d.657927$Gx4.627682@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >
> > "Jupiter Jones" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message
> > news:dHI7d.12275$223.9858@edtnps89...
> >> Jeff;
> >> If I knew in advance a BIOS flash is recommended, I would probably
> >> flash the BIOS.
> >>
> >> However your case is different.
> >> You have already successfully installed SP-2 and have no problems.
> >>
> >> As long as the latest BIOS has nothing else to offer,
> >
> > One never knows what a new BIOS has to offer. Most of the changes,
> > fixes and
> > new features in a new BIOS are NOT documented. Ever see a listing
> > of which
> > CPU microcode version is contained in any given BIOS?
> >
> >> stay where you
> >> are at.
> >> The old rule "If it is not broke, don't fix it" applies with a BIOS
> >> flash more than many other things in a computer.
> >
> > WRONG! Catch-up.
> >
> >> A bad flash. however remote, can turn a motherboard into a
> >> paperweight.
> >
> > Turning a mobo into a paperwight is vastly less likely than even a
> > bad flash
> > which is ALSO rather unlikely if done carefully. You are taking a
> > totally
> > unfounded chicken little position.
> >
> >> There may or may not be fixes available depending on what goes
> >> wrong.
> >> The chance is slight, but there is a chance.
> >
> > There is a much bigger chance that always keeping your BIOS current
> > will
> > save much more money than EVER suffering the miniscule chance of a
> > mobo
> > replacement(~$100).
> >
> >> And with nothing to gain and a motherboard to lose, leave it be.
> >
> > There is MUCH to gain. Do you know anything about BIOSs at all?
> >
> > Do you turn on Automatic Updates as MS recommends. Do you install
> > the
> > latest device drivers? Do you install the latest program updates?
> > All are
> > things that most have found to be the best policy. BIOS are NO
> > different.
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 03:34:55 GMT, Ron Reaugh wrote in
<news:zrK7d.658122$Gx4.143047@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>:

> Ok, so for all to see you jumped-off into wackodom.

Yes, we like our systems how they are. Working just fine. ;-)

Dave
--
You can talk about us, but you can't talk without us!
US Army Signal Corps!!

http://www.geocities.com/davidcasey98

Remove IH8SPAM to reply by email!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Translation:
Ron can not prove anything he states as fact therefore his only way
out is an insult to shore up his position.
But of course it failed.

You have continued to ignore the questions put before you.
Good for you!

--
Jupiter Jones
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote in message
news:zrK7d.658122$Gx4.143047@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Ok, so for all to see you jumped-off into wackodom.

 

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Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"David Casey" <sgtcasey@IH8SPAMcableone.net> wrote in message
news:ttrkc03sekvy$.dlg@sgtcaseycableone.net...
> On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 02:17:47 GMT, Ron Reaugh wrote in
> <news:fjJ7d.475534$OB3.473653@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>:
>
> >> Ron;
> >> What is the source for this?
> >
> > Common snese and all the best computer experts around since baout 2000
> > allways flash the latest BIOS.
>
> Interesting. The folks I know say flashing the BIOS isn't a good idea
> unless you have a problem and need the new BIOS to fix it. My sources are
> the fine folks on the forums at www.amdmb.com among other online forums.

There are a number of wackos around who do NOT tell others to do what they
do themselves. Every person I've met in the last 3 years that works on PCs
always flashes their own and the ones they work on/maintain.. That should
be differentiated from some of the patronizing wackos who regard most all
folks as incompetent morons and go around saying "Oh NO, don't do that..the
sky is fallin."

The fact is that the vast majority of folks who have the wherewithall to get
to one of these NGs and ask the appropriate questions and do the research to
find out how HAVE NO PROBLEMS flashing carefully.

NOT FLASHING in the long run will cause more folks more grief and destroy
more mobos than flashing. YES, mobos do get destroyed while folks are
pouring through things trying to debug some arcane issue.

Most often the first thing a tech support person will ask in a debug
situation is "Have you flashed the latest mobo BIOS." Do it now and don't
wait until you are in another mess to do flash.

Don't fall for the bogus argument about trying to find out what the BIOS
fixes and only flash then if you need the fix. The very first thing one
finds out with BIOSs is that most all that goes into a new BIOS version is
NOT documented. Ever see the CPU microcode version documented anywhere? If
many had followed the wacko advice then we wouldn't have flashed the latest
865/875 mobo BIOS in July and early August. That BIOS had NO mention in the
documentation of the fact that it contained microcode necessary for Precott
CPUs. Most all real techies who select good mobos never saw that
SP2-Prescott bug because they do things the smart way that AVOIDS
preemptively problems.

Catch up.

 

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Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 04:39:20 GMT, Ron Reaugh wrote in
<news:YnL7d.658295$Gx4.646310@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>:

> There are a number of wackos around who do NOT tell others to do what they
> do themselves. Every person I've met in the last 3 years that works on PCs
> always flashes their own and the ones they work on/maintain.. That should
> be differentiated from some of the patronizing wackos who regard most all
> folks as incompetent morons and go around saying "Oh NO, don't do that..the
> sky is fallin."

I don't think anyone here was saying that.

> The fact is that the vast majority of folks who have the wherewithall to get
> to one of these NGs and ask the appropriate questions and do the research to
> find out how HAVE NO PROBLEMS flashing carefully.

I agree, the majority of people who flash upgrade their BIOS have no
problems at all.

However, even you must admit there is a *chance* of a problem if someone
loses power during the upgrade or flashes with the wrong BIOS.

It is this chance that will keep me and *many* others from upgrading a BIOS
"just because it's there".

> NOT FLASHING in the long run will cause more folks more grief and destroy
> more mobos than flashing. YES, mobos do get destroyed while folks are
> pouring through things trying to debug some arcane issue.

How does not upgrading a BIOS destroy a motherboard? I've been using
computers since the Apple II+ and have yet to see a motherboard destroyed
by not upgrading a BIOS or by trying to figure out a problem.

> Most often the first thing a tech support person will ask in a debug
> situation is "Have you flashed the latest mobo BIOS." Do it now and don't
> wait until you are in another mess to do flash.

Yes, notice the part "in a debug situation". Hence, someone is having a
problem so upgrading the BIOS is one option to solve the problem.

> Don't fall for the bogus argument about trying to find out what the BIOS
> fixes and only flash then if you need the fix. The very first thing one
> finds out with BIOSs is that most all that goes into a new BIOS version is
> NOT documented. Ever see the CPU microcode version documented anywhere? If
> many had followed the wacko advice then we wouldn't have flashed the latest
> 865/875 mobo BIOS in July and early August. That BIOS had NO mention in the
> documentation of the fact that it contained microcode necessary for Precott
> CPUs. Most all real techies who select good mobos never saw that
> SP2-Prescott bug because they do things the smart way that AVOIDS
> preemptively problems.

How does one know they avoided a problem if they never have it? Funny
things computers. Two people with the exact same setup and the exact same
software will have different problems. Go figure.

I think what we're taking issue with is you saying that someone should
upgrade to a new BIOS just because it's there.

We disagree. I think you should only upgrade to a new BIOS if you have a
problem the new version will solve. Otherwise, again, why fix it if it's
not broken?

> Catch up.

To what?

Dave
--
You can talk about us, but you can't talk without us!
US Army Signal Corps!!

http://www.geocities.com/davidcasey98

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Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"David Casey" <sgtcasey@IH8SPAMcableone.net> wrote in message
news:8bx7tz27u6nv$.dlg@sgtcaseycableone.net...
> On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 02:17:36 GMT, Ron Reaugh wrote in
> <news:3jJ7d.657927$Gx4.627682@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>:
>
> >> If I knew in advance a BIOS flash is recommended, I would probably
> >> flash the BIOS.
> >>
> >> However your case is different.
> >> You have already successfully installed SP-2 and have no problems.
> >>
> >> As long as the latest BIOS has nothing else to offer,
> >
> > One never knows what a new BIOS has to offer. Most of the changes, fixes
and
> > new features in a new BIOS are NOT documented. Ever see a listing of
which
> > CPU microcode version is contained in any given BIOS?
>
> Sure you do have an idea what a new BIOS version has to offer. There is
> usually a text file of some sort that outlines the changes from the
> previous version.

Yep and if you'd been around awhile you'd know that such files almost never
contain the full list of what was done in a new BIOS. Have you ever seen in
any of those readme's any mention of CPU microcode versions or did you know
such even existed?
>
> [snip]
>
> >> A bad flash. however remote, can turn a motherboard into a
> >> paperweight.
> >
> > Turning a mobo into a paperwight is vastly less likely than even a bad
flash
> > which is ALSO rather unlikely if done carefully. You are taking a
totally
> > unfounded chicken little position.
>
> It is still a chance and it's a chance I'd rather not take. Why mess with
> something that is working fine? Do you run your car to the shop and ask
> them to put on new brakes when the current ones are working fine?

Only cretins debug and maintain a PC like a car.

 

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Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 04:42:13 GMT, Ron Reaugh wrote in
<news:FqL7d.658302$Gx4.656011@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>:

>> Sure you do have an idea what a new BIOS version has to offer. There is
>> usually a text file of some sort that outlines the changes from the
>> previous version.
>
> Yep and if you'd been around awhile you'd know that such files almost never
> contain the full list of what was done in a new BIOS. Have you ever seen in
> any of those readme's any mention of CPU microcode versions or did you know
> such even existed?

Okay, here is what BIOS version A02 fixed from A01 for my 8400:

1. Updated newer CPUs detection and micro code
2. Updated PCI-E X1 and X16 initialization
3. Updated memory initialization
4. Added processor "no execute/execute deny" support
5. Updated PCI memory configuration
6. Added aditional vendor firmware hub support
7. Updated password support from keypad during windows flash
8. Updated onboard NIC low power mode support
9. Updated hot key processing during POST
10. Fixed possible hang after unplugging and re-plugging USB hubs.
11. Updated S3 suspend/resume support
12. Updated SMBios table reporting for video, PCI, and PCI-E
13. Updated diskette media detection after attempting CD boot.

Since from the list above none of those things are anything I have problems
with I won't be upgrading. Why should I take a chance, however tiny, of
rendering my system useless just because it *might* solve a problem
tomorrow? If tomorrow I suddenly am unable to detect a new CPU (don't know
why I would change them, but okay) or I buy a USB hub and it doesn't work,
*then* I would do the upgrade.

Also, how do I know upgrading to the newer BIOS "because it is there" won't
cause new problems with my system which weren't there before? If this
version of the BIOS is perfect then I expect we'll never have to see any
more updates. Otherwise, I'll assume (correctly) that there will be bugs
found in this version and another update will someday appear.

You remind me of the people who go to Windows Update and install every
single update just because it's there. If it's not security related and I
don't use Windows Movie Maker why should I install an updated version?

Because it is there is not good enough reason to do the upgrade. Even more
so if there is a chance, however small, of screwing up your system.

>> It is still a chance and it's a chance I'd rather not take. Why mess with
>> something that is working fine? Do you run your car to the shop and ask
>> them to put on new brakes when the current ones are working fine?
>
> Only cretins debug and maintain a PC like a car.

I wasn't suggesting that, but thank you for yet again pointing out your
true intentions here.

Dave
--
You can talk about us, but you can't talk without us!
US Army Signal Corps!!

http://www.geocities.com/davidcasey98

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Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Anyone who reads the thread for themselves can see who has the information
and winning arguments and who does NOT!

Where's the beef..did you leave it in the astroid belt on your way here or
is it off in the Ort Cloud?

"Jupiter Jones" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message
news:7XK7d.12550$223.10048@edtnps89...
> Translation:
> Ron can not prove anything he states as fact therefore his only way
> out is an insult to shore up his position.
> But of course it failed.
>
> You have continued to ignore the questions put before you.
> Good for you!
>
> --
> Jupiter Jones
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/
>
>
> "Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote in message
> news:zrK7d.658122$Gx4.143047@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > Ok, so for all to see you jumped-off into wackodom.
>
>

 

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Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 04:45:07 GMT, Ron Reaugh wrote in
<news:ntL7d.658308$Gx4.296723@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>:

> Anyone who reads the thread for themselves can see who has the information
> and winning arguments and who does NOT!
>
> Where's the beef..did you leave it in the astroid belt on your way here or
> is it off in the Ort Cloud?

Well, it's pretty obvious who is doing the insulting.

Dave
--
You can talk about us, but you can't talk without us!
US Army Signal Corps!!

http://www.geocities.com/davidcasey98

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Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Can you post facts?
Or are insults as close to facts as you are capable.
So far you have avoided all requests to back up your OPINION.
Why is that?
Is it because they do not exist?

The insults show your own lack facts as well as show your true
character.

--
Jupiter Jones
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote in message
news:FqL7d.658302$Gx4.656011@bgtnsc04-> Only cretins debug and
maintain a PC like a car.
>
>