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Complete Arcane - How cool is Fist of Stone?

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Anonymous
May 8, 2005 6:14:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

As long as your fight doesn't last more than 9 rounds, Fist of Stone
is better than Bull's Strength -- and it's 1st level!

As long as I'm reading the spell description correctly... it does say
you gain a +6 Enhancement Bonus to Strength that affects all attacks,
right?

The only real downside is that it only affects the caster. Hey, no
problem -- Brew Potion. (okay, the other downside is that it isn't
a spell for any of the standard classes)

Seriously, how cool is twenty five gold (and a point of XP) in return
for +6 enhancement bonus to STR for a minute? You're saving 125 gp
over a potion of Bull's Strength here, and you get 2 more points of STR!


--

I'm looking at a Half-Elf Arcane Archer build that might go something
like:

Warmage 1 (Practiced Spellcaster: Warmage)
Ranger 1
Ranger 2 (Brew Potion; B: Rapid Shot)
Fighter 1 (B: Weapon Focus: Longbow)
Fighter 2 (B: Point-Blank Shot)
Fighter 3 (Precise Shot)
Fighter 4 (B: Weapon Specialization: Longbow)

Yes, I lose out on a boatload of skill points (and a hit point, on
average) by having to take Warmage first instead of Ranger. Oh
well. It's either that, or wait until 6th level to take Brew Potion.
What's 16 skill points between friends?


Donald
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 6:14:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Donald Tsang wrote:
>
> As long as your fight doesn't last more than 9 rounds, Fist of Stone
> is better than Bull's Strength -- and it's 1st level!
>
> As long as I'm reading the spell description correctly... it does say
> you gain a +6 Enhancement Bonus to Strength that affects all attacks,
> right?

Yep.

> The only real downside is that it only affects the caster. Hey, no
> problem -- Brew Potion. (okay, the other downside is that it isn't
> a spell for any of the standard classes)

Some people believe that you cannot brew potions of
Personal spells. I believe they're wrong, but be
prepared for the argument.

And since when are sorcerers and wizards not "standard"
classes?

-Bluto
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 8:43:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

>Okay, actually, on pg 286 of the DMG v3.5, it specifically says:
>"Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions, so
>spells such as /shield/ never exist in potion form."

>Oh well. So much for that idea. It's a dumb rule, though, so I
>think I'll Rule Zero it for my own games.

Possible problems:
Ten Kobold archers with potions of True Strike.
One twentieth level fighter with a potion of True Strike, Power Attack
and a two handed weapon = +40 damage for 50GP and a MEA.
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Anonymous
May 8, 2005 10:56:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Senator Blutarsky <monarchy@comcast.net> wrote:
>Donald Tsang wrote:
>>
>> As long as your fight doesn't last more than 9 rounds, Fist of Stone
>> is better than Bull's Strength -- and it's 1st level!
>>
>> As long as I'm reading the spell description correctly... it does say
>> you gain a +6 Enhancement Bonus to Strength that affects all attacks,
>> right?
>
>Yep.

I wonder if this works (as written) with Two-Weapon Fighting, or
Flurry of Blows. It obviously *shouldn't* (conceptually) on the
former, and certainly can on the latter.


>> The only real downside is that it only affects the caster. Hey, no
>> problem -- Brew Potion. (okay, the other downside is that it isn't
>> a spell for any of the standard classes)
>
>Some people believe that you cannot brew potions of
>Personal spells. I believe they're wrong, but be
>prepared for the argument.

Okay, actually, on pg 286 of the DMG v3.5, it specifically says:
"Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions, so
spells such as /shield/ never exist in potion form."

Oh well. So much for that idea. It's a dumb rule, though, so I
think I'll Rule Zero it for my own games.


>And since when are sorcerers and wizards not "standard"
>classes?

Whoops. For some reason, I remembered it as "Warmage 1, Wu-Jen 1".
Obviously not correct... :) 

Donald
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 1:18:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Donald Tsang wrote:
>
> Senator Blutarsky <monarchy@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >Some people believe that you cannot brew potions of
> >Personal spells. I believe they're wrong, but be
> >prepared for the argument.
>
> Okay, actually, on pg 286 of the DMG v3.5, it specifically says:
> "Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions, so
> spells such as /shield/ never exist in potion form."

Hey, thanks for pointing that out! I hadn't realized
3.5 "fixed" this problem.

-Bluto
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 3:57:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Sun, 8 May 2005 14:14:27 +0000 (UTC), tsang@soda.csua.berkeley.edu
(Donald Tsang) scribed into the ether:

>As long as your fight doesn't last more than 9 rounds, Fist of Stone
>is better than Bull's Strength -- and it's 1st level!
>
>As long as I'm reading the spell description correctly... it does say
>you gain a +6 Enhancement Bonus to Strength that affects all attacks,
>right?
>
>The only real downside is that it only affects the caster. Hey, no
>problem -- Brew Potion. (okay, the other downside is that it isn't
>a spell for any of the standard classes)
>
>Seriously, how cool is twenty five gold (and a point of XP) in return
>for +6 enhancement bonus to STR for a minute? You're saving 125 gp
>over a potion of Bull's Strength here, and you get 2 more points of STR!

If I'm reading your reading right, the other real downside is that it only
works in combat. If you need to lift the heavy rock, or smash open the
barred door, Fist of Stone is providing you with bupkiss.
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 5:20:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Matt Frisch <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
>>As long as I'm reading the spell description correctly... it does say
>>you gain a +6 Enhancement Bonus to Strength that affects all attacks,
>>right?
>>
>>The only real downside is that it only affects the caster. Hey, no
>>problem -- Brew Potion. (okay, the other downside is that it isn't
>>a spell for any of the standard classes)
>
>If I'm reading your reading right, the other real downside is that it only
>works in combat. If you need to lift the heavy rock, or smash open the
>barred door, Fist of Stone is providing you with bupkiss.

Actually, I've included the full spell description below. You can
use the extra strength to smash open a barred door, but you can't
lift the heavy rock, but you can't actually put FoS in a potion
with the RAW... it's still *really* good for a 1st level spell.

A pretty good choice for putting into a Ring of Spell Storing, I'm
thinking...


Donald

-----

Fist of Stone
Transmutation [Earth]
Level: Sorcerer/wizard 1, warmage 1
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 minute

You transform one of your hands into a mighty fist of living stone,
gaining a +6 enhancement bonus to Strength for purposes of attacks,
grapple checks, or breaking and crushing items. In addition, you
gain the ability to make one natural slam attack as a standard
action, dealing 1d6 points of damage plus your new Strength bonus
(or 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus if you make no other attacks
this round). You can make the slam attack as a natural secondary
attack with the normal -5 penalty (or -2 penalty if you have the
Multiattack feat, see page 304 of the Monster Manual) as part of a
full attack action. However, you cannot gain more than one slam
attack per round with this spell due to a high base attack bonus
(+6 attack bonus).

Your fist undergoes no change in size or form, remaining as flexible
and responsive as it would normally be while under the spell's
effect.

Material component: A pebble inscribed with a stylized fist design.

-----
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 9:04:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

ringofw@hotmail.com wrote:
> Possible problems [with personal-spell potions]:
> Ten Kobold archers with potions of True Strike.

Compare to ten kobold sorcerers with crossbows.

> One twentieth level fighter with a potion of True Strike, Power Attack
> and a two handed weapon = +40 damage for 50GP and a MEA.

Compare to one ftr19/sor1, Power Attack, and a two-handed weapon. The
damage bonus is only +38, but it's free. (At least two of my players
like ftr/sorcs, and another one like psychic warriors, so this kind of
set-up is not too unusual IME.)

Also, IIRC the limitation on personal-spell potions was for style
reasons, not balance reasons (i.e., they didn't want pure fighters using
"sorcery" type abilities).
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 3:26:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

tsang@soda.csua.berkeley.edu (Donald Tsang) typed:

>Okay, actually, on pg 286 of the DMG v3.5, it specifically says:
>"Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions, so
>spells such as /shield/ never exist in potion form."
>
>Oh well. So much for that idea. It's a dumb rule, though, so I
>think I'll Rule Zero it for my own games.

IMC, it's a separate feat (Brew Elixir) to make potions with Personal
range, at double cost. It also allows potions of spells above 3rd
level. I've not seen any problems with it, but it's barely been
relevant.


--
Jim or Sarah Davies, but probably Jim

D&D and Star Fleet Battles stuff on http://www.aaargh.org
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 3:26:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jim Davies <jim@aaargh.NoBleedinSpam.org> wrote:
>tsang@soda.csua.berkeley.edu (Donald Tsang) typed:
>>Okay, actually, on pg 286 of the DMG v3.5, it specifically says:
>>"Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions, so
>>spells such as /shield/ never exist in potion form."
>>
>>Oh well. So much for that idea. It's a dumb rule, though, so I
>>think I'll Rule Zero it for my own games.
>
>IMC, it's a separate feat (Brew Elixir) to make potions with Personal
>range, at double cost. It also allows potions of spells above 3rd
>level. I've not seen any problems with it, but it's barely been
>relevant.

Are the higher-level potions also double cost? Are all potions and
elixirs "standard action to activate", regardless of original casting time?

If so, is the difference in time some sort of "activation delay"?

Donald

(I've decided that potions of Lesser Restoration IMC will be like molasses...)
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 8:20:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Mere moments before death, Matt Frisch hastily scrawled:
>> I mean, you don't force open a door with just one hand, do you?

Ed Chauvin IV wrote:
> If your hand is a mighty fist of stone you do.

Or if your hand is a mighty fist of Andre the Giant.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 1:51:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Bradd W. Szonye" <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd80dl9.psb.bradd+news@szonye.com...
> Mere moments before death, Matt Frisch hastily scrawled:
> >> I mean, you don't force open a door with just one hand, do you?
>
> Ed Chauvin IV wrote:
> > If your hand is a mighty fist of stone you do.
>
> Or if your hand is a mighty fist of Andre the Giant.

What, skeletal?
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 2:33:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Tue, 10 May 2005 09:51:31 +0100, "Symbol" <jb70@talk21.com> scribed into
the ether:

>
>"Bradd W. Szonye" <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote in message
>news:slrnd80dl9.psb.bradd+news@szonye.com...
>> Mere moments before death, Matt Frisch hastily scrawled:
>> >> I mean, you don't force open a door with just one hand, do you?
>>
>> Ed Chauvin IV wrote:
>> > If your hand is a mighty fist of stone you do.
>>
>> Or if your hand is a mighty fist of Andre the Giant.
>
>What, skeletal?

Someone lacks viewing of The Princess Bride...
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 5:29:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

jim@aaargh.NoBleedinSpam.org wrote:

> >Okay, actually, on pg 286 of the DMG v3.5, it specifically says:
> >"Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions, so
> >spells such as /shield/ never exist in potion form."
> >
> >Oh well. So much for that idea. It's a dumb rule, though, so I
> >think I'll Rule Zero it for my own games.
>
> IMC, it's a separate feat (Brew Elixir) to make potions with Personal
> range, at double cost. It also allows potions of spells above 3rd
> level. I've not seen any problems with it, but it's barely been
> relevant.

If anything, I'd expect it to be underpowered, still. IME, Brew Potion
is the least useful/popular item creation feat.


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 5:32:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
news:jf3181plaeq99t8mesqtfd5kmvdtgego6p@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 10 May 2005 09:51:31 +0100, "Symbol" <jb70@talk21.com> scribed
into
> the ether:
>
> >
> >"Bradd W. Szonye" <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote in message
> >news:slrnd80dl9.psb.bradd+news@szonye.com...
> >> Mere moments before death, Matt Frisch hastily scrawled:
> >> >> I mean, you don't force open a door with just one hand, do you?
> >>
> >> Ed Chauvin IV wrote:
> >> > If your hand is a mighty fist of stone you do.
> >>
> >> Or if your hand is a mighty fist of Andre the Giant.
> >
> >What, skeletal?
>
> Someone lacks viewing of The Princess Bride...

Nah, I've seen it and got the reference. I just wanted to be obtuse.
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 10:48:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jim Davies wrote:

> Brew Elixir probably is a bit weak, but it's a relatively balanced
way
> of letting someone else do True Strike, Divine Favor, Teleport, Word
> of Recall, Find Traps (this makes it actually useful !!), Fire Shield
> (put this on your pet barbarian), Blink, Comp Lang, Dim Door,
> Disguise/Alter Self, Expeditious Retreat, Shield (!!!!) or Mirror
> Image (!!).

Don't forget Rightous Might, Divine Power, Shield of Faith,
Contingency, False Life, Glibness, and Longstrider.

There are lots of nice spells that are restricted to personal range,
the limitation to personal range is the game system's way of telling
us that the designers wanted to force someone to take a level in the
class or go to substantial trouble to get the power.

The question I would have about your Elixirs is not how they compare
with other charged items, but how they compare with permanent items,
double a potion cost is 5% of the use activated cost, and use activated
is actually noticably more useful for those cases where you would
allow the permanent item.

DougL
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 11:53:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jim Davies wrote:
> tsang@soda.csua.berkeley.edu (Donald Tsang) typed:
>
>
>>Okay, actually, on pg 286 of the DMG v3.5, it specifically says:
>>"Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions, so
>>spells such as /shield/ never exist in potion form."
>>
>>Oh well. So much for that idea. It's a dumb rule, though, so I
>>think I'll Rule Zero it for my own games.
>
>
> IMC, it's a separate feat (Brew Elixir) to make potions with Personal
> range, at double cost. It also allows potions of spells above 3rd
> level. I've not seen any problems with it, but it's barely been
> relevant.
>
>
> --
> Jim or Sarah Davies, but probably Jim
>
> D&D and Star Fleet Battles stuff on http://www.aaargh.org

The Psionic analog of potions (tattooes) allows personal effects to
be scribed into them at double cost. I'd house rule that to work with
normal potions as well.
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 1:31:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Tue, 10 May 2005 13:32:06 +0100, "Symbol" <jb70@talk21.com> scribed into
the ether:

>
>"Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
>news:jf3181plaeq99t8mesqtfd5kmvdtgego6p@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 10 May 2005 09:51:31 +0100, "Symbol" <jb70@talk21.com> scribed
>into
>> the ether:
>>
>> >
>> >"Bradd W. Szonye" <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote in message
>> >news:slrnd80dl9.psb.bradd+news@szonye.com...
>> >> Mere moments before death, Matt Frisch hastily scrawled:
>> >> >> I mean, you don't force open a door with just one hand, do you?
>> >>
>> >> Ed Chauvin IV wrote:
>> >> > If your hand is a mighty fist of stone you do.
>> >>
>> >> Or if your hand is a mighty fist of Andre the Giant.
>> >
>> >What, skeletal?
>>
>> Someone lacks viewing of The Princess Bride...
>
>Nah, I've seen it and got the reference. I just wanted to be obtuse.

Err, well done then.
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 3:51:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jasin Zujovic <jzujovic@inet.hr> typed:

>jim@aaargh.NoBleedinSpam.org wrote:
>
>> IMC, it's a separate feat (Brew Elixir) to make potions with Personal
>> range, at double cost. It also allows potions of spells above 3rd
>> level. I've not seen any problems with it, but it's barely been
>> relevant.
>
>If anything, I'd expect it to be underpowered, still. IME, Brew Potion
>is the least useful/popular item creation feat.

Yes, but that's largely because CWI is too damn good. IMC, it's been
hacked into 3 parts.

Brew Potion is handy for allowing lots of quick buffing (all the
combatants can have a potion of Bull's Str, Barkskin, Cat's Grace,
Shield of Faith, Resist Energy, etc) as well as allowing anyone to do
some basic healing.

Brew Elixir probably is a bit weak, but it's a relatively balanced way
of letting someone else do True Strike, Divine Favor, Teleport, Word
of Recall, Find Traps (this makes it actually useful !!), Fire Shield
(put this on your pet barbarian), Blink, Comp Lang, Dim Door,
Disguise/Alter Self, Expeditious Retreat, Shield (!!!!) or Mirror
Image (!!).

Some of those spells could have been made range Touch and not been a
problem, but others are rather chunky in the hands of the right
(non-wizard) character.


--
Jim or Sarah Davies, but probably Jim

D&D and Star Fleet Battles stuff on http://www.aaargh.org
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 8:08:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

DougL wrote:
> There are lots of nice spells that are restricted to personal range,
> the limitation to personal range is the game system's way of telling
> us that the designers wanted to force someone to take a level in the
> class or go to substantial trouble to get the power.

Right. The rumor is that they did this for "flavor" reasons rather than
"game-balance" reasons. I would argue that this "flavor" is actually
niche protection, a kind of game balance, but that would be pedantic.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 8:13:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Some Guy wrote:
> The Psionic analog of potions (tattooes) allows personal effects to be
> scribed into them at double cost. I'd house rule that to work with
> normal potions as well.

Cite? I don't see this in the XPsiHB.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 12:49:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
news:42a281lmmrokomuk0mogb91luah4o7k5jh@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 10 May 2005 13:32:06 +0100, "Symbol" <jb70@talk21.com> scribed
into
> the ether:
>
> >
> >"Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
> >news:jf3181plaeq99t8mesqtfd5kmvdtgego6p@4ax.com...
> >> On Tue, 10 May 2005 09:51:31 +0100, "Symbol" <jb70@talk21.com>
scribed
> >into
> >> the ether:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >"Bradd W. Szonye" <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:slrnd80dl9.psb.bradd+news@szonye.com...
> >> >> Mere moments before death, Matt Frisch hastily scrawled:
> >> >> >> I mean, you don't force open a door with just one hand, do you?
> >> >>
> >> >> Ed Chauvin IV wrote:
> >> >> > If your hand is a mighty fist of stone you do.
> >> >>
> >> >> Or if your hand is a mighty fist of Andre the Giant.
> >> >
> >> >What, skeletal?
> >>
> >> Someone lacks viewing of The Princess Bride...
> >
> >Nah, I've seen it and got the reference. I just wanted to be obtuse.
>
> Err, well done then.

Thanks!
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 5:53:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

bradd+news@szonye.com wrote:

> > The Psionic analog of potions (tattooes) allows personal effects to be
> > scribed into them at double cost. I'd house rule that to work with
> > normal potions as well.
>
> Cite? I don't see this in the XPsiHB.

I didn't check, but I don't remember it either.

However, this might be a very good house rule to make Brew Potion more
attractive...


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 5:53:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Jasin Zujovic" <jzujovic@inet.hr> wrote in message
news:MPG.1cec1089d77cb168989a7f@news.iskon.hr...
> bradd+news@szonye.com wrote:
>
> > > The Psionic analog of potions (tattooes) allows personal effects to
be
> > > scribed into them at double cost. I'd house rule that to work with
> > > normal potions as well.
> >
> > Cite? I don't see this in the XPsiHB.
>
> I didn't check, but I don't remember it either.

It's in the SRDs. Second paragraph under "Creating Psionic Tattoos"

"The user of the psionic tattoo is both the manifester and the target;
therefore, powers that target another creature cannot be stored in psionic
tattoo form. Powers with a range of personal can be made into psionic
tattoos, but they cost double the price of standard psionic tattoos."
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 8:23:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Symbol wrote:
> It's in the SRDs. Second paragraph under "Creating Psionic Tattoos"
>
> "The user of the psionic tattoo is both the manifester and the target;
> therefore, powers that target another creature cannot be stored in
> psionic tattoo form. Powers with a range of personal can be made into
> psionic tattoos, but they cost double the price of standard psionic
> tattoos."

Weird. I checked all three places in the book that discuss tattoos
(feat, description, creation) plus the errata, and I didn't notice any
mention of range at all. Maybe it's hidden by fnords and my brain just
refused to see it.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 8:49:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd W. Szonye wrote:
> Symbol wrote:
>
>>It's in the SRDs. Second paragraph under "Creating Psionic Tattoos"
>>
>>"The user of the psionic tattoo is both the manifester and the target;
>>therefore, powers that target another creature cannot be stored in
>>psionic tattoo form. Powers with a range of personal can be made into
>>psionic tattoos, but they cost double the price of standard psionic
>>tattoos."
>
>
> Weird. I checked all three places in the book that discuss tattoos
> (feat, description, creation) plus the errata, and I didn't notice any
> mention of range at all. Maybe it's hidden by fnords and my brain just
> refused to see it.

I think it's in the creation part.

--
TP
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 9:11:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd wrote:
>> Weird. I checked all three places in the book that discuss tattoos
>> (feat, description, creation) plus the errata, and I didn't notice
>> any mention of range at all. Maybe it's hidden by fnords and my brain
>> just refused to see it.

Taneli Pirinen wrote:
> I think it's in the creation part.

You are correct; I don't know how I missed it. It's the second paragraph
of "Creating Psionic Tattoos."

The user of the psionic tattoo is both the manifester and the
target; therefore, powers that target another creature, such as
/energy ball/, cannot be stored in psionic tattoo form. Powers with
a range of personal can be made into psionic tattoos, but they cost
double the price of standard psionic tattoos. (XPsiHB, p. 182)

I blame fatigue from foolishly letting myself get trolled by idiots.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 4:17:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"DougL" <doug.lampert@tdytsi.com> typed:

>The question I would have about your Elixirs is not how they compare
>with other charged items, but how they compare with permanent items,
>double a potion cost is 5% of the use activated cost, and use activated
>is actually noticably more useful for those cases where you would
>allow the permanent item.

If you can afford the time and money to make a permanent item, and can
be user that you'll get the use out of it, it usually is worth it.
Wands are also better than potions for any situation where the spell
is on the users list. But that's quite often not the case. For
example, a high priest wouldn't go handing out an amulet of Word of
Recall when sending his servant to fetch the McGuffin of Foo, but he
might well grant him an elixir.


--
Jim or Sarah Davies, but probably Jim

D&D and Star Fleet Battles stuff on http://www.aaargh.org
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 12:09:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

One of the voices in my head - or was it Bradd W. Szonye? - just said...
> DougL wrote:
> > There are lots of nice spells that are restricted to personal range,
> > the limitation to personal range is the game system's way of telling
> > us that the designers wanted to force someone to take a level in the
> > class or go to substantial trouble to get the power.
>
> Right. The rumor is that they did this for "flavor" reasons rather than
> "game-balance" reasons. I would argue that this "flavor" is actually
> niche protection, a kind of game balance, but that would be pedantic.

When has that ever stopped you? :-)
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 1:38:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Bradd W. Szonye" <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd84f5h.3mq.bradd+news@szonye.com...

> I blame fatigue from foolishly letting myself get trolled by idiots.

There isn't much else to do around here at the moment.
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 8:18:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jeff Heikkinen <no.way@jose.org> wrote:
> One of the voices in my head - or was it Bradd W. Szonye? - just said...
>> DougL wrote:
>> > There are lots of nice spells that are restricted to personal range,
>> > the limitation to personal range is the game system's way of telling
>> > us that the designers wanted to force someone to take a level in the
>> > class or go to substantial trouble to get the power.
>>
>> Right. The rumor is that they did this for "flavor" reasons rather than
>> "game-balance" reasons. I would argue that this "flavor" is actually
>> niche protection, a kind of game balance, but that would be pedantic.
>
> When has that ever stopped you? :-)

Never!
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 10:45:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd W. Szonye wrote:
> Some Guy wrote:
>
>>The Psionic analog of potions (tattooes) allows personal effects to be
>>scribed into them at double cost. I'd house rule that to work with
>>normal potions as well.
>
>
> Cite? I don't see this in the XPsiHB.

Page 182: "Powers with a range of personal can be made into psionic
tattoos, but they cost double the price of standard psionic tattoos."
!