Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Ace's new AthlonMP benchmark

Last response: in CPUs
Share
December 9, 2001 11:31:21 PM

<A HREF="http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=45000255" target="_new">http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=45000255&lt;/A>

A lot of people were waiting for this one...well, it's here.

No 2GHz Xeon, probably because of the extreme scarcity of the part.

Kelledin
[dave@discovery ~] kill -9 1
init: Just what do you think you're doing, Dave?

More about : ace athlonmp benchmark

December 10, 2001 9:20:58 AM

Athlon MP is a strong contender it beats the Xeon almost everytime ! Can't wait till Athlons support SSE2 what will Intel do then ?...they will probably have to resort to Hyperthreading.

<font color=purple>~* K6-2 @ 333MHz *~
I don't need a 'Gigahertz' chip to surf the web just yet ;-)</font color=purple>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 10, 2001 2:20:09 PM

The dual Xeon might not be a match for the dual MP in terms of performance, it still outsells it by a very, very wide margin. Not sure intel is so worried. They sell more, of a far more expensive cpu. What do they care if its slower, if the consumer doesnt care or know ?

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
Related resources
December 10, 2001 2:54:50 PM

Personaly, I would have liked to see how a dual XP performs compaired to a Dual MP. The t-bird 1.4 was pretty good, and seemed about right just on clockspeed to the MP 1200 most of the time, but it lacked the SSE-1 instructions. A dual XP system is still a cheep alternitive to a dual MP system.

Chesnuts roasting on an open CPU
Bill Gates nipping at your wallet
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 10, 2001 3:53:40 PM

>I would have liked to see how a dual XP performs >compaired to a Dual MP

Easy.. it would perform exactly the same.. it just might not have worked (though doubtfull.. havent seen any reports yet of XPs not working in SMP, but you'd never know). Remember these chips are identical, except the MP has closed L1 bridges (hence easy overclock) and are validated by AMD for use in SMP boards. Other than that, there is nothing that distinguishes an XP from an MP. So, same performance, period.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
December 10, 2001 4:13:46 PM

"Each quarter about 400,000 workstations are shipped, and about 70-80% of them are Intel based workstations, while the remaining 20-30% are mostly Sun and HP RISC workstations. So AMD has a long way to go before it can compete with Intel in the workstation market like it does in the desktop market."

Most professionals will throw the machine back at you if they find out AMD is indide. Strong rejection for a long time to come. so yes Intel has a strong hold on the high end workstation and server market.

XEON is more targeted for servers and databases, but it can render and stuff fine. One thing none of these benchmarks show nor they tell you is that XEON has superior memory bandwidth and very large cache configurations (seems someone is cluess on how to exploit these features or declined, to make benchmarks AMD favorable it seems). But thats what they decided to do.

Ive have noticed across the net that all the Intel sites don't have a huge bone lodged in the ass about trying to prove superiority of the other platforms like AMD does. sure AMD has something to prove but the should start with thermal protection and go from there. everyone would benifit from thermal protection that buys AMD.

Simple analogy.

If Fords break down because they overheat (even brand new ones off the showroom floor), and the engines blow because of overheating. would you still buy a Ford?

Im sure the dumbasses would!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 10, 2001 5:00:47 PM

>If Fords break down because they overheat (even brand new
>ones off the showroom floor), and the engines blow
>because of overheating. would you still buy a Ford?

Yes I would, if they overheat because I built my own car, and forget to put oil in the engine, I dont think I'd blame Ford. If GM would have a car that would perform worse, cost more, but automatically shuts or slows down when it detects no oil in the carter, I couldnt care less. Also, to stick with the analogy, the Ford would have a system that shuts it down when it looses oil or water. It just wouldnt stand running without oil at all. Big deal.

>Most professionals will throw the machine back at you if
>they find out AMD is indide.

If the machine performs flawlessly, and performs better; how stupid would that be ? The thing is, its hard if not impossible to find a first tier OEM AMD workstation. Its not like they have a lot of choice, do they ? Its also obvious that intels strong arm tactics make OEM think twice about introducing an Athlon MP workstation. I really dont think that has a lot to do with thermal protection; I have yet to see a 3D pro open his cas, and remove a heatsink while rendering 3D max.

Also, I've seen a few rendering farms here switch over to dual MPs. I tell you one thing, they will throw their old P3 Xeons at you if you come too close. If the price /performance ratio of the cpu is not too important when buying just one or a few workstations (where things like graphic cards and monitors cost much more), believe me it sure makes a difference when you have 200+ rendering machines.

>One thing none of these benchmarks show nor they tell you
>is that XEON has superior memory bandwidth and very large
>cache configurations (seems someone is cluess on how to
>exploit these features or declined, to make benchmarks
>AMD favorable it seems).

Aces' test was about low cost workstations. Sub $3000 machines. That excludes big cache Xeon machines, and most Sun workstations. AMD doesnt have anything yet to compete in that area either, at least not price wise. I'd be as curious as you to find out how much these huge caches help in specific apps. Im guessing the Athlon would perform at least very competitive in +95% of the apps. Remember Anands database test ? A single 1200 MP smoked a dual Xeon 1.7. I dont think a bigger cache is going to make up for that.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
December 10, 2001 9:24:21 PM

LOL! what a joke, first they have some old misconfigured P4 systems then the biggest AMDmongrel on Aces was too scared to post real results, for fear of being eaten alive by the rabid mongrelpups running around sniffing each others butts.

regarding the skull head:

<i>"we found the Dual Athlon MP
1800+ to be almost 30% slower than the Dual Xeon 1.7 GHz in this test."</i>

Affirmative Action For AMD NOW! is their motto.

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"
December 10, 2001 9:41:33 PM

ok then.
what should they use?

AMD - Anti Monopoly Devices
AMD - At Massive Discounts!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 10, 2001 9:50:54 PM

Since you like quoting, here is another one:

>The fastest AMD configuration in our test beats the Dual
>Xeon 1.7 GHz by 50%. Considering that the Xeon 1.7 GHz
>costs about 15% more, it is not an unfair comparison


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 10, 2001 10:03:11 PM

I saw a comparison several weeks ago (at least) about exactly that. Some guys compared XP with MP on a Tyan mobo and there was no difference. They even went as far as trying one of each, and reported that it went ok.

I have to apologise for not having linkage, but after a search on google I've come up empty... It's out there somewhere though...
December 11, 2001 12:44:01 AM

Quote:
LOL! what a joke, first they have some old misconfigured P4 systems

Hmmm, so pre-builts from Dell and Compaq come misconfigured?

Second place must really suck for you Intel lapdogs. :wink:

Kelledin
[dave@discovery ~] kill -9 1
init: Just what do you think you're doing, Dave?
December 11, 2001 12:47:18 AM

Here is why AMD still has alot of work to do in the workstation market:

Intel chips are trusted, stable, and well supported by all the major professional programs out there. Amd chips are notorious for being unstable with many motherboards, running very hot without special cooling, and burning to a crisp in fractions of a second. If you were going to purchase workstations for a bussiness and want it to stay productive, what chip would you choose?

<i>Mommy that dog is trying to jump over that other dog but he keeps not making it</i>
December 11, 2001 12:52:17 AM

Quote:
XEON is more targeted for servers and databases, but it canrender and stuff fine. One thing none of these benchmarks show nor they tell you is that XEON has superior memory bandwidth and very large cache configurations (seems someone is cluess on how to exploit these features or declined, to make benchmarks AMD favorable it seems).

Funny, the tests are actual real-world tests.

Your quote about the "large cache configurations" is especially hilarious, seeing as P4 Xeons don't have any more cache than standard P4's. :tongue:

Quote:
Ive have noticed across the net that all the Intel sites don't have a huge bone lodged in the ass about trying to prove superiority of the other platforms like AMD does.

That's because they can't prove Intel's superiority anymore. Like you, they can't prove that the AMD platform is unstable, especially not with sites like Ace's and LinuxHardware.org giving it perfect stability ratings. There's also far too much proof of AMD trouncing Intel for performance. Intel used to be best for everything, but that's not the case anymore.

Intel has better memory bandwidth, but still takes second place in performance in most real-world situations. Apparently bandwidth isn't everything.

Intel has better thermal protection, but that only really helps people who can't install proper cooling.

Kelledin
[dave@discovery ~] kill -9 1
init: Just what do you think you're doing, Dave?
December 11, 2001 3:33:54 AM

If only it were somehow possible to get through to guys like you

"Amd chips are notorious for being unstable with many motherboards, running very hot without special cooling, and burning to a crisp in fractions of a second."

NO they are NOT!!
absolutely Any place you go, and any objective people who KNOW what they're talking about will tell you otherwise.

the heat thing -> everyone, Intel and AMD owners, has a chance of running hot just because of room temps. It is not the fault of either manufacturer if users don't follow standard rules, buy approved HSF arrangements etc.

as for the burning in few seconds, and this is to Kelledin aswell, the lack of protection is a real issue. It doesn't matter who's fault it is.. but whoever is losing money because of it will be the ones to fix it. There's no point in blaming dumb users who install a heat-sink wrong... Intel guarded against that.. so if someone's wants to install their own stuff they might just go for the safety of a P4. Why try and change everybody else, by education or telling them they're stupid - let me do it properly.. AMD or their MB makers might be better off following Intel's road.

as to the trolls.
Why do you comment without backing up anything??
Do you really enjoy people abusing your blatant stupidity??
How much fun can you have stirring people??
Is it people like me that wonder about you that keep you going??
You're scary!!



I spilled coffee all over my wife's nighty... ...serves me right for wearing it?!?
December 11, 2001 10:06:49 AM

Oh god where do I start ?! The biggest downfall of the Athlon MP is that it doesn't have thermal protection, I agree. Companies want solutions that are 'solid' and are impossible to burn up.
As for AMD processors / platforms not being stable that is just pure bull*hit. ATHLON MP are VERY stable.

<font color=blue>
"As we have been able to test both boards for months now, we can safely say that Tyan's dual Athlon boards are the most stable Athlon platforms on the earth. We have tested the samples that both AMD and Tyan have sent us, and several retail boards (Tyan Tiger MP) for more than three months now, and we have never seen one workstation benchmark fail or crash. That is remarkable, because we have not only benchmarked a wide variety of high-end software, but each test has also been repeated tens of times by now as we have been testing with 6 different OpenGL cards (more about OpenGL cards in the next article). That is why we believe that the current AMD760MP boards still deserve your attention."
</font color=blue>

As for performance Athlon MP are very competitive, database transactions rely on memory bandwidth (which the Athlon don't have) but the nature of SQL transactions/queries also rely on good branch prediction. In my opinion the branch prediction in Xeons really sucks.

And yes AMD will also be second place in the server market because it is a new comer in this area, and has not recieved the backing of industry, for god sakes they have only been in the MP business for what ?...2-3 years ?? thats nothing ! don't expect miracles. However what the Athlon MP does show is that it can compete performance wise. For a first attempt that is pretty damn good !

The sever market is really tough to get into with large players like SUN, Intel. However do not under estimate the potential AMD have we could see a little boy VS Goliath type battle next year.

AMD pleeeease sort out your thermal protection now ! Hammer will fail if it don't have decent thermal protection, its as simple as that.
AAHHHHH !

<font color=purple>~* K6-2 @ 333MHz *~
I don't need a 'Gigahertz' chip to surf the web just yet ;-)</font color=purple>
December 11, 2001 12:28:44 PM

Quote:
Funny, the tests are actual real-world tests.

Your quote about the "large cache configurations" is especially hilarious, seeing as P4 Xeons don't have any more cache than standard P4's.



Hey kelledin, remember when I said you post enlightened flames....that was one of the best ones I have seen yet.

:-)

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
December 11, 2001 12:34:34 PM

Balzi

Quote:
as for the burning in few seconds, and this is to Kelledin aswell, the lack of protection is a real issue. It doesn't matter who's fault it is.. but whoever is losing money because of it will be the ones to fix it. There's no point in blaming dumb users who install a heat-sink wrong... Intel guarded against that.. so if someone's wants to install their own stuff they might just go for the safety of a P4. Why try and change everybody else, by education or telling them they're stupid - let me do it properly.. AMD or their MB makers might be better off following Intel's road.



If a user is too dumb to install a heatsink, he will either a, have a burnt chip, or b have a p4 throttled all the time and not know it. Because he is a dumb computer user, how would he know his p4 is throttling, I dont see EITHER, result as being favorable. While its true the p4 wont burn up, it will be useless without a properly installed heatsink, if the thermal protection is to protect computer idiots, and p4's implementation will basically render a computer idiots p4 system a pos, who is the protection for?

The fact of the matter is,
A: When a heatsink is improperly installed there are consequences on BOTH sides.
B: the consequence on the amd side is worse than the intel side, BUT BOTH computers are pretty much useless, so it is a rather moot point.


However, amd's thermal diode on a motherboard with AMD SPECCED THERMAL CONTROL SYSTEMS, which will be coming soon, will survive EVERYTHING, and furthermore, the system will not run impared to spare a computer idiot, the chip will be fine, but the fact the system is not running will clue the person into the fact that somethings not right. As opposed to the system running fine, just incredibly slow.

The end result is both intel and amd's most current thermal protection systems are perfectly fine for everyone and it is NOT an issue to 99.99% of computer users.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
December 11, 2001 12:50:56 PM

Heh thanx, I thought that was pretty good myself. :smile:

Kinda sad that he has four (or was it eight?) xeons in his desktop and doesn't take the time to know the product...

Kelledin
[dave@discovery ~] kill -9 1
init: Just what do you think you're doing, Dave?
December 11, 2001 9:54:19 PM

"If a user is too dumb to install a heatsink, he will either a, have a burnt chip, or b have a p4 throttled all the time and not know it. Because he is a dumb computer user, how would he know his p4 is throttling, I dont see EITHER, result as being favorable. While its true the p4 wont burn up, it will be useless without a properly installed heatsink, if the thermal protection is to protect computer idiots, and p4's implementation will basically render a computer idiots p4 system a pos, who is the protection for?"

LOL! you're an idiot! with a P4 you will notice when it's throttled down :-) it's like pressing the brake on a car, moron!

and depending on how stupid you really are you can get back up and runing within minutes! :smile:

with an AMD procesor you will wait weeks to get you RMA'd cpu back and if you're a real moron then you'll probably make a keychain out of it(wow! that's 80% of thgc) or order another one.

exactly how much did you save on your tbird?


"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"
December 11, 2001 10:22:23 PM

Yep, its a P3 xeon kellidin.

Mad bad, I was confused with P3 XEON obviously (run it into the ground I expect nothing less from the gimps), if you will notice we removed all P4 XEON from product line months ago. The only Intel based machine we build atm is the Itanium.

I think this a veto to your trounce theory kelidin:

"Each quarter about 400,000 workstations are shipped, and about 70-80% of them are Intel based workstations, while the remaining 20-30% are mostly Sun and HP RISC workstations. So AMD has a long way to go before it can compete with Intel in the workstation market like it does in the desktop market."

AMD will not be accepted into many major OEMS due to the thermal protection. has nothing to do with installing a HSF.

"However, amd's thermal diode on a motherboard with AMD SPECCED THERMAL CONTROL SYSTEMS, which will be coming soon, will survive EVERYTHING, and furthermore, the system will not run impared to spare a computer idiot, the chip will be fine, but the fact the system is not running will clue the person into the fact that somethings not right. As opposed to the system running fine, just incredibly slow."

Matisaro where is your proof?

AMD cannot rely on halfass motherboard makers for thermal protection. This has always failed miserably.

Until AMD CPU can survive with a HSF removed, I dont think the acceptance ratio will budge.

"That's because they can't prove Intel's superiority anymore. Like you, they can't prove that the AMD platform is unstable, especially not with sites like Ace's and LinuxHardware.org giving it perfect stability ratings. There's also far too much proof of AMD trouncing Intel for performance. Intel used to be best for everything, but that's not the case anymore." - once again, read thru these forums every page has a AMD horror story/testimonial. so that makes your statement FALSE! If your machine doesnt run, how can you claim it has high performance?
December 11, 2001 10:52:14 PM

Quote:
"That's because they can't prove Intel's superiority anymore. Like you, they can't prove that the AMD platform is unstable, especially not with sites like Ace's and LinuxHardware.org giving it perfect stability ratings. There's also far too much proof of AMD trouncing Intel for performance. Intel used to be best for everything, but that's not the case anymore." - once again, read thru these forums every page has a AMD horror story/testimonial. so that makes your statement FALSE! If your machine doesnt run, how can you claim it has high performance?


I love how you change the subject when you know you're beaten :) 

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
December 11, 2001 10:55:41 PM

Because my machine <i>does</i> run. :tongue: Runs very fast, doesn't crash, and doesn't overheat.

Funny how out of all this, you still can't find one horror story about an AMD760MP. And when professionals like Ace's, Anandtech, and (ahem) myself can run an AMD system stable for months with zero maintenance, that really proves that the platform is solid as a rock.

Oh, btw, I'm still waiting for you to prove that official Intel/AMD datasheets are in error. :tongue:

Kelledin
[dave@discovery ~] kill -9 1
init: Just what do you think you're doing, Dave?
December 11, 2001 11:00:22 PM

beaten? not hardly.

Those quotes are not mine, they are directly from link provided above. Not changing the subject, replying to posts/pointing out the obvious.

Bottom line, AMD has problems and with those said problems they will never get the respect they deserve. Maybe one day AMD will adopt a thermal protection that is on chip, not depending on the board mfg. but until then they will be rejected by professionals and OEM's. Stability is another cause for alarm, Im sure you ignore all the "help posts" as if they never existed. but this forum is like too many others crammed full of "help me my AMD doesnt boot, locks up, reboots randomly, overheats, crashed and died, ...". But I guess you cannot seem to find those daily posts as problems associated with AMD processors.
December 11, 2001 11:15:23 PM

I'm not biased either way really.. I think AMD make a better product, but in terms of thermal protection Intel have the right approach.. AMD needs the MB makers to handle their thml. diode while Intel handles it all themselves.

The subject is not moot.
I think that if you want to change a heat-sink yourself and you don't really know how.. well you're an idiot.. But Idiot's have money too.. and if they
think it's safer to go with P4 cause the thermal prot. is enabled, then they will go with it.

We all need to remember that pleasing 90% of people is good unless your competitor is pleasing 95% of people. and if AMD can easily get in the good books of 99% of people then maybe they should.. but I expect they're already aiming at doing so.

All that said, AMD are not as blind as some of their fans, and I trust they'll have teh thermal protection wrapped up in their next generation.
I know they got it covered now, but MB makers need to support them.

OT - trolls getting up your nose is one thing, but when you just refuse to listen to anyone that doesn't agree, that's just crazy... almost worthy of a new troll name - AMD_inside or IntelMELTDOWN (or BUGGER)

please be objective and listen if there's something worthy of thought.

NOBODY likes a one-eyed promoter, even if your smart or work for Intel or AMD.

I spilled coffee all over my wife's nighty... ...serves me right for wearing it?!?
December 12, 2001 12:17:43 AM

Quote:
Im sure you ignore all the "help posts" as if they never existed. but this forum is like too many others crammed full of "help me my AMD doesnt boot, locks up, reboots randomly, overheats, crashed and died, ...". But I guess you cannot seem to find those daily posts as problems associated with AMD processors.

You're relying on skewed statistics. They're skewed simply by the fact that almost all DIYers are building Athlon systems instead of P4 systems. That probably breaks your heart, but it's the hard truth. :tongue:

I rely on the reports of professionals who have taken the time to test parts for weeks, grab three or four off of consumer shelves, etc. to ascertain their stability and failure rate. And these professionals say the Athlon is very stable.

I also rely on my own experience, which is more concrete than any number of skewed statistics or reviewer statements. My experience also proves that the Athlon is very stable.

Then there's you, who apparently forgets that his video card is overclocked, or that his idolized CPU only has a certain amount of cache. You're either intentionally dishonest or just plain dumb. Either way, it doesn't do wonders for your credibility. :tongue:

Kelledin
[dave@discovery ~] kill -9 1
init: Just what do you think you're doing, Dave?
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 12, 2001 12:50:29 AM

intell will make sse3
December 12, 2001 4:03:49 AM

Quote:
This has been discussed so many many times. The PR rating is supposed to reflect the equivalent performance of a P4. So a XP 1900 is supposed to be on par with a P4 1900 Mhz. In reality AMD is being a bit generous though. The Mhz mean nothing. Don't bother comparing the increment size to the Mhz difference. It doesn't reflect the performance.




http://www.tech-report.com/onearticle.x/3057


Dont ever ask me for proof like I am making fud up fugger, you of all people have no right.

But there it is, now we are ALL waiting for proof of ANY of your bs fud claims you troll.


"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
December 12, 2001 4:05:49 AM

Quote:
AMD cannot rely on halfass motherboard makers for thermal protection. This has always failed miserably.

Until AMD CPU can survive with a HSF removed, I dont think the acceptance ratio will budge.



Again see the link, they removed the heatsink and low and behold the chip did not fry, when using specced onboard thermal monitoring set forth by amd. Anything else I can humiliate you on today fugger?

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
December 12, 2001 4:08:56 AM

Balzi, I am not saying amd's thermal solution is better, I am saying that the properly implemented AMD solution.(on board temp monitoring and autoshutoff) is perfecty adequaTE, I do believe they will have ondie thermal protection eventually, but it IMO is not a major issue at this time.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
December 12, 2001 2:51:16 PM

I ignore the problem posts just like you ignore the benchmarks. Is that a fair statement?

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
December 12, 2001 4:15:13 PM

"Obviously, the relevant difference here is most likely the motherboard. If a motherboard properly support's AMD's thermal protection measures, the CPU probably won't burn up." That not helping your case very much. keyword here is "probably". I would love to have seen Tbird or the 1.4 in that test. heh, Im sure it would have ended with 2 damaged chips. wasnt the MP designed for thermal protection? I noticed exclusive use of the MP 1.2

This motherboard was outfittted with MAX6512 external tempeture switch that kills the power. seems the motherboard has nothing to do with the shutting down of the machine.

<A HREF="http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm?qv_pk=2405" target="_new">MAX6512</A>, did you research it any?

Seems like a cool device, but at what cost. Intels internal diode should be alot cheaper and everyone has the same protection no matter what motherboard you get. passed or present
December 12, 2001 7:32:06 PM

You crack me up.

i bet you do this to only piss people off which is kind of funny. i bet you sit there and just laugh at some of these people.

anyway i want to point this out... i mean wouldn't it be cool to have a cpu as a keychain? or even a christmas ornament! that would be soo cool... check it... green with red core color... dude that would be sweet! so don't mock cpu keychains! *chuckle*

hey i'm a semi pro and i can make things magically work and i know what i'm doin so i do actually save money lol.

like i've always said the athlon XP is actually the beginning of AMD in my opinion. Has half ass as the thermal protection but it does have one. So it is on it's way to being a good contender which is good for you as it keeps the intel prices down as long as AMD is around.

I'd expect AMD prices to rise also to that of intel pricing or close to it in the next iteration of AMD chips or the clawhammer. So enjoy now but i really believe cpu prices will soon increase. AMD needs to make money and be beleived as respectable. You can't sell cheap cpu's and be believed you are stable.

So in all reality intel folks such yourself need to take less crack and see some drug anonymous. AMD users need to relax and seek therapy for a superiority complex issues. Before you know it you'll believe you can stop bullets with your teeth lol!

thats a metaphore! look it up don't take litterally ... anyway ..

both chips are good just if you have a stupid user then the best way to go is an intel chip. they are better made thats a fact.

while amd's are faster but they lack quality.

facts are facts.

now can we end this intel vs amd, bulls'hit now?

both are good chips and both have there flaws... ok great now move on with life? :) 

unless you people LOVE argueing over this? which is pretty compulsive and should seek a psychologist. ;p



<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
December 12, 2001 8:45:44 PM

We're agreed then.. I never thought it was a big issue.. all issues seem big to those that know about them.. and i think this could get real big if it wasn't already being addressed.

anyway, I just wanted to make sure you didn't think it was no issue at all.

catcha

oh, and to the guy that thought he'd wrapped up the AMD vs. Intel argument..
lolol.. yuo're the one on drugs.. that's like saying I'll run up to the Pakistan/Afghanistan border - toss a hand-grenade in - "that'll end the war"

you are dreaming - wake up... Even if we didn't fight like our lives depended on it, we would still disagree and, for some reason, seriously believe that we can change the minds of the "other side".

*tags next sensible person on our team*

I spilled coffee all over my wife's nighty... ...serves me right for wearing it?!?
December 12, 2001 10:14:33 PM

Quote:

while amd's are faster but they lack quality.

facts are facts.

How do they lack in quality? I expect no problem with the processor itself. I know they may burn up if you remove the HSF, but I don't plan on doing that.
December 13, 2001 1:08:50 AM

oh gawd.. get real!

use your brain ... which cpu lives when you take the heatsink off? ok enough said.. doesn't matter if you think the possiblity of removing the heatsink while using 3dmax is low. the fact is it fries and the other chip doesn't. thats quality. get it? do you understand the concept of quality? or are you wrapped up in the rhetoric nonsense that AMD's are better intels are not. it's Crap!



<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
December 13, 2001 1:45:40 AM

Quality is too subjective. I could say Athlons are higher quality because they perform better and are more power-efficient, or P4s are higher quality because they aren't damaged as easily. If one was all-around better in <i>everything,</i> then yes, you could honestly say it's higher quality, but that isn't the case.

Kelledin
[dave@discovery ~] kill -9 1
init: Just what do you think you're doing, Dave?
December 13, 2001 2:19:09 AM

"Quality - The positive or negative character of a proposition. "

now when you buy something, do you look for bad quality? or good quality? Now is it more natural to assume good quality?
usually people seek after good quality? right?

if you read it and understand what i said before. The context of which it was spokin clearly said i was talking about good quality of the chip.

"quality - The totality of features and characteristics of a product or service that bear on its ability to satisfy stated or implied needs"

notice stated needs or implied needs. I have clearly stated the implied needs which is stability in one section of what i've said.

Then i said the other chip is just as good but lacks quality. the context of what i said clearly state i was talking about the instance of removing the HSF and one burns up the other doesn't. I have clearly stated thats what i implied as far as quality. Then i specified another different/seperate instance of quality which i simply stated it being "fast" (which the abstract word "fast" is naturally known as some kind of quality by defualt so i assumed you could pick that up) as opposed to "quality". more times then not, ambiguity (two different instances named the same) confuses more people then not.

ok got it now? Or do you want me to logically argue technicalities with you about something else i've said?

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
December 13, 2001 5:56:21 AM

LoL.....

Oh dear......all of you especially you Sk8er are cracking me up........

I think everyone understood what you meant the first time you said anything about the quality of the chips....well..maybe not, maybe it was just me.....ah well, you proved your point....

And Kelledin, you can't argue with this one......I know i can't anyways....as far as AMD's thermal protection on their Palomino based CPU's, they really are half-assed jobs, as well as it would work with PROPERLY Designed-To-Spec. Motherboards, there are no OFFICIAL boards who actually use FULL POTENTIAL of the Internal Thermal Diode....

This, in my opinion is the biggest stronghold Intel has over AMD.......(besides Marketshare anyways, i'm talking physical workings of the chip itself)

ANOTHER thing I wanted to ask.........

Everyone remembers the IHS (Integrated Heat Spreader) on the AMD K6-2's and K6-III's right ?

Well, when you peeled them off, those chips physicallt looked almost 100% identical to the Athlon/Duron's do correct ? anyways, why didnt AMD use that EXACT same IHS on the Athlon/Duron/Athlon MP/XP ???? instead of those 4 rubber pads ???

I dunno, I just wanna know......ESPECIALLY when they know how sensitive the core is, and they've had.....

1, 2, 3, 4, 5......no, they've had more than that many revisions to do it in.....

They could have doen it when they released the Duron, Type 'C' Athlon's, Morgan Duron (1GHz+), Athlon MP, Athlon XP(redish brown), Athlon XP (green), Athlon MP (with model numbers), PLUS all the times they released no batch steppings......


i dunno........you'd think it would get to them by now that they're getting MANY RMA's becasue of crushed cores, etc. PLUS the Thermal Protection, which DOES work when properly utilized, but thats at the aid of a 2ndary chip....anyhoo..

Thsi isn't an Anti-AMD post......just stating things I would liek to know/issue's I ahve with AMD, I have an even BIGGER list of issue's with Intel, but that would take WAY to long to type out as I end up expressing 100% everything that comes to my mind when it comes time too......heh

-MeTaL RoCkEr

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=13597" target="_new"> <b> My Rig </b> </A>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 13, 2001 7:45:33 AM

>The only Intel based machine we build atm is the Itanium.

Wow.. I sure hope the Inq is wrong about its numbers then. As it claims a whopping 500 systems have been shipped so far. IF you exclude the machines they gave away, there is not a whole lot left.


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
December 13, 2001 10:37:47 AM

Are we talking about the same person who ignorantly forgot to install the heatsink is going to realize the CPU is throttling? Hmmm...I'm not so sure.


Catheter and Caffeine IV are in place. Let's PLAY.
December 13, 2001 11:54:39 AM

LoL, what cpu lives when you pour water on it?

NEITHER, they both suck and have no quality.


Taking the heatsink off during operation is NOT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN, so saying a cpu has less quality because it dies under non specified conditions(which probably happen less than spilling say dr pepper into your computer on accident) is stupid.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
December 13, 2001 11:58:08 AM

Quote:
"Obviously, the relevant difference here is most likely the motherboard. If a motherboard properly support's AMD's thermal protection measures, the CPU probably won't burn up." That not helping your case very much. keyword here is "probably". I would love to have seen Tbird or the 1.4 in that test. heh, Im sure it would have ended with 2 damaged chips. wasnt the MP designed for thermal protection? I noticed exclusive use of the MP 1.2


The video they linked to in the article SHOWED amd techs removing the heatsink from an axp and it NOT burning up. Try doing some reading and not JUST GLANCING at links if you are gonna ask for proof to a claim which you will not yourself provide when asked on other matters.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
December 13, 2001 12:20:46 PM

thats what quality means bonehead!

You just don't say quality and generalize everything... you say quality and specify what your qualifying. Right?
I was qualifying the "HSF" issue and i was qualifying speed. Thats it! Thats all the the solution set has to offer in what i said. I said nothing about water! Facts are facts one blew up the other didn't.

think of it like a function.

talk("Quality", Qualifications).

If you do not specify what your qualifying then the syntax is wrong. And to generalize, like in the case you are doing, makes you look foolish. As you clearly have no clue on how to read.

Think of it as with this sentence, "The quality of a cpu isn't good". An english professor will write in red and ask "what qualities?"

Now lets say. "The quality, which has to do with heat, of a CPU is poor" and then say "oh well if you put water on it then i guess the cpu is poor" .. do you see how that looks foolish? That is WAY out of context of what i was talking about.

ok got it? Do you understand what quality means now? Don't generalize it and don't put things out of context! If i was talking milk do you mention something about oil? Imagine it and you will see how stupid you will look. We are sitting at a table and talking about how milk is good for you and then you say out of the blue, you need oil in the car. stupid isn't it? that was you.

If you read i have clearly said what the qualities were in what i was talking about.

You seem to be just sooo amazed to think of a possibility of a HSF falling off? It has happened i'm sure. Otherwise that video would have never been made.

This pathetic. How old are you? I hope your young.. if you're in college and still don't know how to read i feel bad for ya. You will never get decent a job. If you're a kid then it's kewl, just think before you say something.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
December 13, 2001 12:40:55 PM

First off, watch your mouth you little punk, ever since you first started posting on this forum you have been confrontative and annoying, and you need to learn the finer points of debate and discussion. Calling the person you are talking to a bonehead and insulting people like burger and others only serves to make you look like a whiney punk ass bitch, and while that may be true, you probably dont want that reflected on the forum.(unless you ENJOY being regarded in the same light as meltdown and fugger, which you are with your insults and general bad attitude.)


THAT having been said, now I will explain my post.

Quote:
both chips are good just if you have a stupid user then the best way to go is an intel chip. they are better made thats a fact.

while amd's are faster but they lack quality.

facts are facts.

You have said your use of the world quality in this sentence was in reference to the thermal protection only, well I have news for you, but your hack job 5th grade writing style does NOT convey this information well, and it is your own damn fault people misunderstood your post in the first place.

Secondly, you say that which cpu dies with the heatsink removed as if it is a common occurance, or even one which should be given much weight at all, this is your oppinon. But some facts you should be aware of.

A: the AXP's thermal protection requires an equipped motherboard to function, this is stated on amd's webpage and is general information, if it is ran on a proper motherboard the axp WILL NOT FRY when the heatsink is removed. Thus the axp is of the SAME quality level as intel in regards to the thermal protection. (it performs when set up as instructed, if you care to debate the VALUE, of on chip versus mobo controled thermal protection, that is a DIFFERENT subject than quality of the soultion.) If you insist on removing the heatsink from an axp on a NON SPECCED MOTHERBOARD. That is the same as if you inproperly installed the hsf, or if you poured water on the cpu and it died, and drawing conclusions from this is stupid.(because if you followed the spec the chip would not fry, if you test a p4 with a non functioning thermal control unit, or one turned off, and it frys, does this mean all p4's quality is inferior.)


Now you may have noticed the insults I made towards you in my above post, those were put there to demonstrate how you sound EVERYTIME you post, with quippy insults strewn throughout your attempts at discussion, I am 22, and work in the semiconductor industry, and if you wish to continue to INSULT people like fatburger and I, because we dont understand your poorly written and poorly thought out posts, go ahead. You should realize however, that you are looking like a giant flaming mindless troll to 99% of this message board, so you would be advised to clean up your posts and stop insulting others post hatse if you with to keep any kind of reputation here.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
December 13, 2001 12:47:36 PM

ROFL The one that tryed to stop the war in this post is starting another one!!!!

You got couth in it my frend heehehehe



Sorry for my spelling i'm french...hey i ain't perfect!
December 13, 2001 1:10:49 PM

Whoa talk about needing therapy.

Obviously the truth isn't something you can handle.

Perhaps you belong in the cave with everybody else and continue living a lie, referring to Plato's "cave", and fight with anyone that makes you think.

I bet you follow everything the news tells you, everything the media says, and everything the "law" tells you to do, with out objectively thinking on your own.

Expressing your feelings and venting on me does no good. And as Spock would say, "It is illogical Jim".

I was educating the person and to make him think of what he said.

This is almost similar to Socrates death. He educated people of the truth and made people think objectivily on there own and then some guy, i forget his name, pressed charges on him saying he was teaching new gods. Socrates had a clear logical arguement but the courts, like you, didn't hear a thing and killed him. Others who weren't being tought by Socrates poked fun at him (before his trial) and called names and even poked fun at him with plays.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
December 13, 2001 1:14:04 PM

Comparing your posts on toms hardware guide to the words of socrates.....LOL.


Run along skater, I tried to give you the benifit of the doubt, but when you attack respected veterans of this forum(fatburger, not me I would not be so bold as to label myself respected veteran) for no reason and insult everyone with every post, you show your true colors....and they are a drap troll green.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
No Overclock+stock hsf=GOOD!
!