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OEM socket 478 2GHz P4 for $168!

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December 12, 2001 4:54:34 PM

Just wanted to let you guys know that <A HREF="http://www.edgemicro.com" target="_new">EdgeMicro</A> is selling P4s for an unbelievably low price. They'll accept orders at this price for today only, so bust a move if you want to grab one. I'm almost tempted, but I'll wait for Northwood.
Details are at <A HREF="http://www.hardocp.com" target="_new">HardOCP</A> if you want further info.

Their website seems really slow ATM.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
December 12, 2001 5:26:57 PM

I hate online retailers like this. From HardOCP.com:

Quote:
Kyle:
It apparently does not even help to call now days and ask about the pricing and say it seems ridiculously low. They verified it on the phone and due to lacking Net laws on pricing, they can still pull the rug out from under us and ride all the nice free publicity they got. No $168 2GHz P4s today as verbally promised. They suck...

Dear customer,

I am contacting you regurding your recent order. It seem there was a typo on the price. Notice your order has been cancelled. For further information on this please give us a call on this matter.

Thank You
Jason Hernandez
1(800)796-5188
Save Hundreds of Dollars on Thousands of Products!
Edge XXXXX
www.domainremoved.com

FYI, I am NOT a customer unless I bought something and they spelled "regurding" wrong....


<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
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December 12, 2001 6:39:52 PM

I'm not sure if it's a hoax or a misprint, but I'm filing a complaint with the FTC right now.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
December 12, 2001 11:13:43 PM

That is 100% illegal. If they advertise a price, they are required by United States law to honor it. Take them to court FatBurger!!


<font color=red>"I'm not gonna launch a $2 million missile at a $10 tent and hit a camel's butt." -Bush</font color=red>
December 13, 2001 12:30:51 AM

Damn, at just the same time I click on this thread, I'm over at [H] and read the EdgeMicro vs. Kyle thread in General Mayhem.

I, for one, won't go near EdgeMicro now, and I'm considering joining the "email crusade" for Kyle. Sons of bitches. :mad: 

Kelledin
[dave@discovery ~] kill -9 1
init: Just what do you think you're doing, Dave?
December 13, 2001 3:23:12 PM

Actually, there are no laws regarding that. I spent about an hour over at the FTCs website doing the research.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
December 13, 2001 4:53:32 PM

That sucks. I could have sworn that there was some law about that. I would call the FTC if they have a consumer help line or something that talk to one of them about it.

In any case, I think we should start of THGC boycott of them!! :wink:


<font color=red>"I'm not gonna launch a $2 million missile at a $10 tent and hit a camel's butt." -Bush</font color=red>
December 13, 2001 6:56:50 PM

I think it's the same as the deal with printed flyers. You know the crap like, "...not responsible for typographical errors"

I believe there should be legislation. A website should be like a brick and mortar store, if a price is posted it should be honored. Let the vendor purchase some kind of insurance against mistakes. The consumer should not be penalized.

<b>We are all beta testers!</b>
December 13, 2001 6:59:08 PM

You might want to learn the vendor's physical location. There's a small chance the local state may have different consumer protection laws.

<b>We are all beta testers!</b>
December 13, 2001 7:22:22 PM

Don't know about the US, but in the UK, any vendor has the ability to not sell a product at the marked price.

I think it runs something like the advertisment of a price is an indication of a willingness to enter into a contract of sale. Until such time as a price has been mutually agreed upon there is no contract and either the seller or the buyer may withdraw.

The difference now is with Internet stores, the concept of offering a price is mixed with advertising. If they distributed advertising specifically claiming the price of the product and then withdrew it, that would be baiting and probably liable to consumer trading penalties. If, however, the price was merely listed alongside others and not intended to 'draw' potential customers (as would be the case of mis-pricing in a store) then I think there would be no recourse.

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December 13, 2001 7:27:43 PM

Oh yeah, and 2 things:

Quote:
The consumer should not be penalized.

The consumer is not penalised, he or she has lost nothing from this. They cancelled the orders (as I understand it). Now, if they had not cancelled but 'upgraded' the order in an attempt to cover it, or - for instance - allowed you to buy a mobo, memory and cpu, then only cancelled the cpu then the consumer has 'lost out' and should be entitled to protection. The vendor, in that case, is deliberately attempting to increase sales of related products through mis-representing a single product.

Quote:
Let the vendor purchase some kind of insurance against mistakes

I'd rather they withdrew mis-prices and kept their overall prices lower. If the vendors are forced to buy insurance, the only people who pay for it are us....

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December 13, 2001 8:23:19 PM

They're in Springfield, OR. About a 3 hour drive for me, I'm tempted to go egg the place. Want to come, Mat?

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
December 13, 2001 11:06:27 PM

I don't know the particulars of the canceled transactions so this is all hypothetical. I said the customer was penalized I did not say he lost money, although it could happen.

Here are a couple of examples how I think the customer is penalized.

He loses time in his purchases. Making a purchase, which appears to be a completed deal, only to learn it has been cancelled, well he has purchase the item elsewhere. This is not fun, especially during the holidays. This is especially true he doesn't check his order status or his email for a while. (We are are getting close to the critcal time of having shipped arrive before the holidays.

He loses time after he becomes aware of the cancellation. I don't know about you, but if this happened to me I wouldn't just trust the vendor saying the purchase was cancelled. I'd have to make sure my credit card wasn't charged. If it were charged make sure I was recredited. If If I am not mistaken, a credit is not automatic, at least not as far as one's credit limit is concerned. If your last purchase reached your limit then you could possibly be barred from further purchases. (OK, I'm stretching the example here). I still think the consumer is "penalized".

Quote:
Now, if they had not cancelled but 'upgraded' the order in an attempt to cover it, or - for instance - allowed you to buy a mobo, memory and cpu, then only cancelled the cpu then the consumer has 'lost out' and should be entitled to protection.

As I said, I don't know the particulars. Are you sure partial shipments weren't charged and shipped?



<b>We are all beta testers!</b>
December 13, 2001 11:25:18 PM

Sorry, I'm responding out of sequence but I agree with much of what you are saying here. Your idea of a contract sounds reasonable.

On the other hand, I can also look at this in different way. Hasn't the consumer entered into the deal with the reasonable assumption of completion? Hasn't the vendor, by allowing the use credit cards, (automated or not), accepted funds for the purchase (assuming the consumer's card was charged). This sounds very much like a completed contract but where one party (the vendor) decided, after the fact, he didn't get a fair deal.

<b>We are all beta testers!</b>
December 13, 2001 11:53:03 PM

Quote:
Don't know about the US, but in the UK, any vendor has the ability to not sell a product at the marked price.

This is true here in US, as well. I believe it varies by state but I don't think there is single law to guarantee that a customer gets the ticket price. Usually the merchant will accomodate the consumer within reason. I think if a $32.99 toaster were accidentally marked $23.99 then most like the merchant would sell it at that price. He would then quickly pull all the mismarked items off the shelves. I doubt very much that $601.99 refrigerator would leave the store for a mismarked price of $106.99. (Sorry, I don't know the US/UK exchange rate).

Maybe another refrigerator example would help here.

Suppose, you walk into a store to purchase a $600 refrigerator for the sale price of $182. This is almost an unbelievably good bargain! You provide you credit card to complete the deal. You then go home and wait for delivery. The next day, the store gives you a phone call and leaves the following message on you machine, "We are sorry, the price you saw at our store was not correct. We cannot sell the item to you at that price. It will not be delivered. We are re-crediting your card. Have a nice day! Please shop again."

Is this ok with you? It's not with me.


<b>We are all beta testers!</b>
December 14, 2001 12:02:00 AM

Quote:
Suppose, you walk into a store to purchase a $600 refrigerator for the sale price of $182. This is almost an unbelievably good bargain! You provide you credit card to complete the deal. You then go home and wait for delivery. The next day, the store gives you a phone call and leaves the following message on you machine, "We are sorry, the price you saw at our store was not correct. We cannot sell the item to you at that price. It will not be delivered. We are re-crediting your card. Have a nice day! Please shop again."

But in that case you have a contract - you signed the credit card slip and obtained a receipt for your purchase, even though the goods are not delivered.

I would consider that submitting a web form or sending an email is effectively making an offer to the vendor - like walking up to the cash till. Until the vendor responds and confirms your purchase and charges your card, I suspect you have very little legal standing.

I agree on your points regarding the hassle and time, plus the doubt - and also I do not have any more information than you as to the nature of the attempted and cancelled orders. Possibly the consumers were genuinely financially impacted. Of course regarding shipping time and xmas deadlines, unless the vendor was promising delivery on all orders before xmas, they could reasonably claim not to have delayed anyones xmas shopping...

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December 14, 2001 12:39:53 AM

Quote:
But in that case you have a contract - you signed the credit card slip and obtained a receipt for your purchase, even though the goods are not delivered.

I don't know about in the UK but we do not yet have electronic signatures the US. I consider my providing private information like my home telephone number and email address as the closest thing to a signature. I consider the electronic invoice as my receipt. In fact, it often is your receipt if the transaction does complete.

Quote:
I would consider that submitting a web form or sending an email is effectively making an offer to the vendor - like walking up to the cash till. Until the vendor responds and confirms your purchase and charges your card, I suspect you have very little legal standing.

My only response to this is the vendor often does charge my credit card immediately. I even get an acknowledgement of this within moments via email. Does this constitute an acceptance? and if so does a later cancelation constitute a breach of contract?

Now, I'll argue your side for a bit. I just looked at an "invoice" from a memory vendor. At the bottom it states, "...This order acknowledgment is not a contract..." It goes on and mentions things like credit review, product availability, not responsible for errors in prices, etc.

I have no problem with this. The vendor is just covering themselves. I do have a problem with statements like this when they are only made at the end of the process, after the consumer has completed his part of the online transaction.

Some vendors do not yet have even this much available at their sites.

So I ask, "Just what does the consumer have a right to assume?"

Phsstpok


<b>We are all beta testers!</b>
December 14, 2001 12:52:01 AM

Sorry - In the store, you buy your fridge - that is a real purchase, with a contract, even thought the goods are being shiipped on afterwards...

If the vendor cancels after charging your card, well - difficult. You see, until you actually pay your bill, you don't own the goods, your credit card company does. technically once you have to pay the bill, then you get sh|tty...

I think the customer always has to be on the lookout nowadays, especially doing business on the 'net.

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December 14, 2001 1:03:02 AM

cheap bastards!

i would firebomb the place personally.
but im too far away

- Know thyself
- Seek
- Love
- Cherish Life
- And do not Yield!
December 14, 2001 1:43:05 AM

>They're in Springfield, OR. About a 3 hour drive for me, I'm tempted to go egg the place. Want to come, Mat?

LOL! is that a date?


"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"
December 14, 2001 2:06:45 AM

Quote:
Sorry - In the store, you buy your fridge - that is a real purchase, with a contract, even thought the goods are being shiipped on afterwards...

What make a store purchase a "real purchase" and the online purchase not real?

In my mind the semantics are exactly the same.

Quote:
If the vendor cancels after charging your card, well - difficult. You see, until you actually pay your bill, you don't own the goods, your credit card company does. technically once you have to pay the bill, then you get sh|tty...

I completely disagree with this. Your credit cards give you an unsecured line of credit, no escrow or collateral is required. The bank does not own your goods you are simply contractually bound to repay the loan.



<b>We are all beta testers!</b>
December 14, 2001 4:22:17 AM

LoL, i would not be adverse to that idea.

"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
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December 14, 2001 4:07:42 PM

Quote:
LOL! is that a date?


I just figured he'd want to come. Maybe Jollygrinch too. You can come if you want, I don't know what part of the country your from, though.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
December 14, 2001 5:44:41 PM

A contract requires an offer, an acceptance and consideration. The ad is just the offer. You accept the offer by ordering and tendering your consideration. This is the basic rule of contracts. If the vendor has charged the card they are generally going to be bound at that point. There are some specific rules which apply to ads, however.

In addition, there are statutes in most US jurisdictions which prohibit deliberately false advertising. This is quite difficult to prove, however.
December 15, 2001 12:28:26 AM

I wasn't saying the online is not a real purchase, I was saying at that point the fridge purchase is real and done...

I'll conceede the credit card bit - I have no idea what I was muttering on about there, but it doesn't look right to me now I read it.

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December 15, 2001 12:34:00 AM

well, regardless of if it is a real or false purchace....

what about MISSLEADING ADVERTISING.

i suppose that would then depend on if it were deliberate or an honest mistake...

but i cant see something like that being "just a mistake".

looks more like a clever and thought out scheme for increasing publicity and exposure

- Know thyself
- Seek
- Love
- Cherish Life
- And do not Yield!
December 15, 2001 1:09:58 AM

Quote:
what about MISSLEADING ADVERTISING.


I don't know - did they advertise it, or just list it? From what I have heard, they listed it and then it got reported on. Now, if they did advertise (contact web revies/post forums etc.) then I agree, however if they merely posted the price in their system and everyone else did the running around, then I do not see it is false advertising.

Quote:
looks more like a clever and thought out scheme for increasing publicity and exposure


It cannot have been that clever or thought out since it has generated bad press now. I expect it was either a dumb plot to try and lure more people to the site or an honest mistake everyone is jumping all over.....

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December 15, 2001 2:41:38 AM

Quote:
I wasn't saying the online is not a real purchase, I was saying at that point the fridge purchase is real and done...

Let's just drop it. We are obviously not going to agree on this point.






<b>We are all beta testers!</b>
December 15, 2001 2:49:42 AM

I'm okay to drop it, but I cannot help feeling we would agree if I can explain it better.

What I'm saying is - in your case - you go into a shop, buy a fridge, give them your credit card, they agree to deliver tomorrow. You get home, then call you and they tell you they made a mistake.

In that case, they did complete the contract. You went to the counter, the sales assistant said thank you sir/madam, processed your credit card and gave you a purchase receipt. This is a completed transaction, whether you walk out the door with the fridge today or tomorrow.

This case, however is you giving your details to the online vendor (in effect walking up to the counter and offering your card) and requesting to purchase. The vendor is then mailing back, apologising and saying that in fact they cannot honour the price/product you are requesting. The sales assistant apologises to you and does not take your card, becuase the goods are incorrectly marked for example.

Now, IF the vendor charges your card, then cancels, or replies saying okay, then backs out, then I think you have cause for complaint....

Anyway, you may or may not see it this way I suppose.

Pete.

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December 15, 2001 2:10:37 PM

You said you were going to drop this but I still disagree.

I just don't see the difference if an online vendor, in fact, charges your card and then backs out.

Dou see an online transaction as being completed, when you receive a confirmation email, when you receive a tracking number, when your credit card is charged, or when you receive your goods?

I see it being complete the moment the vendor charges my card.


<b>We are all beta testers!</b>
December 15, 2001 10:39:21 PM

No - I think we agree - if any vendor, real or otherwise, charges your card, then the transaction is accepted. If they then back out then I agree they are totally in the wrong.

What I am saying is that as far as I know in this case - people tried to order, and then received an e-mail saying the price was wrong and the order is cancelled. I'm not aware that their cards were charged. (They may have been, in which case I believe the vendor has actions to answer for).

I would see a transaction being completed nominally as early as payment takes place, or possibly even a vendor confirmation that the order has been accepted (not received).

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December 17, 2001 3:00:59 PM

Fly me out and I'll help you guys. I'll bring flour and water and we can paper mache their cars.(Non-destructive way to cause trouble.) Someone bring a whole bunch of tires and if they have a flagpole we can stack them around it. Some guys in our high school did this and the principle/school board canceled the prom. They couldn't figure out how it was done. (Again, another non-destructive, head scratching prank.)

<b>All for one and one for all...and 3 for 5! - Curly - The Three Stooges</b> :lol: 
!