What's wrong with this HD?

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

The hard disc on a friend's 2001 Dell recently failed. I went to have a
look at it earlier, and here's what I found:

- the disc spins up aggressively on power-on, and doesn't stop spinning.
- as long as the HD is plugged into the power supply and the IDE cable is
connected, neither his zip disc (on the same IDE-1 cable) or his optical
drives (on IDE-2) are detected by the system.
- when the HD is disconnected from the power, the system detects the optical
drives and they work just fine.
- when a new Seagate HD was installed in place of the failed unit, all four
IDE devices function perfectly.

I'm unsure why having the failed disc plugged in causes problems with the
other IDE devices. I'm very much an amateur, and whilst I've encountered
problem discs before, the cause has always basically been damage to the data
or boot sectors (and once a failed motherboard). This time is obviously
rather different because the hard disc isn't detected by or even identified
as being present by the system. Any ideas what exactly might be wrong with
the disc?

My friend has some data on the failed disc that he would really like to
recover. Is this likely to be possible without specialist equipment?

TIA,

Charles

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
You, O Lord, keep my lamp burning; my God turns my darkness into light.
- Psalm 18:28
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Charles Tosh" <spamtrap.cvtosh@REMOVEntlworld.com> wrote:
>- as long as the HD is plugged into the power supply and the IDE cable is
>connected, neither his zip disc (on the same IDE-1 cable) or his optical
>drives (on IDE-2) are detected by the system.

>My friend has some data on the failed disc that he would really like to
>recover. Is this likely to be possible without specialist equipment?

Sounds like interface problems, if it's connected properly, try the
drive by itself on an IDE interface with nothing else, and see if it
comes up. Also, try Master or Slave or Cable Select.

It could be something blown up in one of the interface chips, if the
above doesn't work you might be able to get it to work by swapping
drive controller boards with another IDENTICAL drive, which is pretty
much what a data recovery shop is going to do for you.

 

[Brian]

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Charles Tosh <spamtrap.cvtosh@removentlworld.com> wrote:
> I'm unsure why having the failed disc plugged in causes problems with the
> other IDE devices. I'm very much an amateur, and whilst I've encountered
> problem discs before, the cause has always basically been damage to the data
> or boot sectors (and once a failed motherboard). This time is obviously
> rather different because the hard disc isn't detected by or even identified
> as being present by the system. Any ideas what exactly might be wrong with
> the disc?

Make sure the IDE cable is on correctly. Modern drives typically have a
caged connector that is keyed. But it is possible to incorrectly connect
an IDE cable on older drives. The red wire on the cable goes nearest the
power supply. Don't skip any pins (shift the cable to far sideways such
that 2 pins are missed).

You have two options to connect the drive. Either use a cable select
IDE cable and jumper all the drives on the cable as CS. Or use a non-CS
IDE cable and jumper one drive as master and a second drive as slave.
Cable select cables typically have a small hole cutting that breaks
one wire.

I think Dell almost always uses cable select. Don't quote me on it tho.

 

[Fixer]

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

You could also connect the HDD to the secondary IDE controller on the board,
if it fails to work then it's the disk if it does work then its possibly a
fault on the boards primary but at least it would point you in the right
direction, as for recovering the data its unlikely unless its your area of
expertise or you know someone,
"Brian" <brian@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cjs0ga$1f3$1@gondor.sdsu.edu...
> Charles Tosh <spamtrap.cvtosh@removentlworld.com> wrote:
>> I'm unsure why having the failed disc plugged in causes problems with the
>> other IDE devices. I'm very much an amateur, and whilst I've encountered
>> problem discs before, the cause has always basically been damage to the
>> data
>> or boot sectors (and once a failed motherboard). This time is obviously
>> rather different because the hard disc isn't detected by or even
>> identified
>> as being present by the system. Any ideas what exactly might be wrong
>> with
>> the disc?
>
> Make sure the IDE cable is on correctly. Modern drives typically have a
> caged connector that is keyed. But it is possible to incorrectly connect
> an IDE cable on older drives. The red wire on the cable goes nearest the
> power supply. Don't skip any pins (shift the cable to far sideways such
> that 2 pins are missed).
>
> You have two options to connect the drive. Either use a cable select
> IDE cable and jumper all the drives on the cable as CS. Or use a non-CS
> IDE cable and jumper one drive as master and a second drive as slave.
> Cable select cables typically have a small hole cutting that breaks
> one wire.
>
> I think Dell almost always uses cable select. Don't quote me on it tho.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Brian" <brian@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cjs0ga$1f3$1@gondor.sdsu.edu...
> Make sure the IDE cable is on correctly.

Yup, all that stuff is in order.

"Fixer" <steve@kelly90.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cjs4mi$deu$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
> You could also connect the HDD to the secondary IDE controller on the
> board, if it fails to work then it's the disk if it does work then its
> possibly a fault on the boards primary but at least it would point you in
> the right direction, as for recovering the data its unlikely unless its
> your area of expertise or you know someone

<William P.N. Smith> wrote in message
news:5q43m011elhqq25ndd862eufg89jddfbn6@4ax.com...
> "Charles Tosh" <spamtrap.cvtosh@REMOVEntlworld.com> wrote:
> >- as long as the HD is plugged into the power supply and the IDE cable is
> >connected, neither his zip disc (on the same IDE-1 cable) or his optical
> >drives (on IDE-2) are detected by the system.
>
> >My friend has some data on the failed disc that he would really like to
> >recover. Is this likely to be possible without specialist equipment?
>
> Sounds like interface problems, if it's connected properly, try the
> drive by itself on an IDE interface with nothing else, and see if it
> comes up. Also, try Master or Slave or Cable Select.

I must admit that I didn't bother trying it on IDE-2, but I did try
disconnecting all the other IDE devices. I also tried changing the disc
between Master and Cable Select. Once I established that the new disc
worked on the same cable (IDE /and/ power, incidentally - and I did try
other cables for the old HD) I didn't think there was much point.

> It could be something blown up in one of the interface chips, if the
> above doesn't work you might be able to get it to work by swapping
> drive controller boards with another IDENTICAL drive, which is pretty
> much what a data recovery shop is going to do for you.

Okay, that's both encouraging - because it's what I thought must be wrong
(though terminology is not my strong point) - and discouraging, because I
was hoping there'd be a simpler solution. HDs have those scary paperthin
cables connecting the electronics to the arm assembly - assuming I can get
hold of an identical unit, how easy would it be for me to make the problem
worse if I attempt to switch out the controller board? I'm not having much
success googling for tips.

Thanks for the help, folks.

Charles

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
You, O Lord, keep my lamp burning; my God turns my darkness into light.
- Psalm 18:28
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Charles Tosh" <spamtrap.cvtosh@REMOVEntlworld.com> wrote:
>was hoping there'd be a simpler solution. HDs have those scary paperthin
>cables connecting the electronics to the arm assembly - assuming I can get
>hold of an identical unit, how easy would it be for me to make the problem
>worse if I attempt to switch out the controller board?

Well, it kinda depends on the drive, but you can get an idea by
carefully disassembling the one you have now (given that there's not
much to lose. IME, they are made to come apart pretty easily, as they
have to be assembled in the millions without a lot of experienced
labor. Many of them have head-cable connectors that merely unplug
from the HDA as you remove the board.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

If all the cabling and jumpering is right then likely the drive has
developed a failure in its onboard ATA bus interface controller such that it
clobbers the entire ATA environment. Try the drive on a cable by itself at
the end jumpered as master in another PC as a confirming test. If it fails
there then almost certainly the drive is DOA.

"Charles Tosh" <spamtrap.cvtosh@REMOVEntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:RRs8d.941$eT2.194@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...
>
> "Brian" <brian@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:cjs0ga$1f3$1@gondor.sdsu.edu...
> > Make sure the IDE cable is on correctly.
>
> Yup, all that stuff is in order.
>
> "Fixer" <steve@kelly90.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:cjs4mi$deu$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > You could also connect the HDD to the secondary IDE controller on the
> > board, if it fails to work then it's the disk if it does work then its
> > possibly a fault on the boards primary but at least it would point you
in
> > the right direction, as for recovering the data its unlikely unless its
> > your area of expertise or you know someone
>
> <William P.N. Smith> wrote in message
> news:5q43m011elhqq25ndd862eufg89jddfbn6@4ax.com...
> > "Charles Tosh" <spamtrap.cvtosh@REMOVEntlworld.com> wrote:
> > >- as long as the HD is plugged into the power supply and the IDE cable
is
> > >connected, neither his zip disc (on the same IDE-1 cable) or his
optical
> > >drives (on IDE-2) are detected by the system.
> >
> > >My friend has some data on the failed disc that he would really like to
> > >recover. Is this likely to be possible without specialist equipment?
> >
> > Sounds like interface problems, if it's connected properly, try the
> > drive by itself on an IDE interface with nothing else, and see if it
> > comes up. Also, try Master or Slave or Cable Select.
>
> I must admit that I didn't bother trying it on IDE-2, but I did try
> disconnecting all the other IDE devices. I also tried changing the disc
> between Master and Cable Select. Once I established that the new disc
> worked on the same cable (IDE /and/ power, incidentally - and I did try
> other cables for the old HD) I didn't think there was much point.
>
> > It could be something blown up in one of the interface chips, if the
> > above doesn't work you might be able to get it to work by swapping
> > drive controller boards with another IDENTICAL drive, which is pretty
> > much what a data recovery shop is going to do for you.
>
> Okay, that's both encouraging - because it's what I thought must be wrong
> (though terminology is not my strong point) - and discouraging, because I
> was hoping there'd be a simpler solution. HDs have those scary paperthin
> cables connecting the electronics to the arm assembly - assuming I can get
> hold of an identical unit, how easy would it be for me to make the problem
> worse if I attempt to switch out the controller board? I'm not having
much
> success googling for tips.
>
> Thanks for the help, folks.
>
> Charles
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> You, O Lord, keep my lamp burning; my God turns my darkness into light.
> - Psalm 18:28
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

If you determine that the drive is indeed dead, the best and often only way to
recover the data from the drive is to obtain another fully functional drive of
the EXACT model. Carefully remove and switch the circuit boards between the two
drives. If the drive with its replaced circuit board spins up and runs, QUICKLY
remove the data by copying it to yet another drive. Switch the circuit boards
back. Throw away dead drive. This procedure works when the drive's circuit
board is defective and heads and platters sealed inside are OK. The real trick
is to find an exact replacement drive. This has worked for me (and my clients)
when I have been able to obtain an exact model of the failed drive.

The data recovery companies charge the big bucks for their extensive inventory
of all makes and models of drives, their clean rooms, and their data recovery
procedures when the drive heads and/or platters are damaged.

.... Ben Myers

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:01:17 GMT, "Charles Tosh"
<spamtrap.cvtosh@REMOVEntlworld.com> wrote:

>The hard disc on a friend's 2001 Dell recently failed. I went to have a
>look at it earlier, and here's what I found:
>
>- the disc spins up aggressively on power-on, and doesn't stop spinning.
>- as long as the HD is plugged into the power supply and the IDE cable is
>connected, neither his zip disc (on the same IDE-1 cable) or his optical
>drives (on IDE-2) are detected by the system.
>- when the HD is disconnected from the power, the system detects the optical
>drives and they work just fine.
>- when a new Seagate HD was installed in place of the failed unit, all four
>IDE devices function perfectly.
>
>I'm unsure why having the failed disc plugged in causes problems with the
>other IDE devices. I'm very much an amateur, and whilst I've encountered
>problem discs before, the cause has always basically been damage to the data
>or boot sectors (and once a failed motherboard). This time is obviously
>rather different because the hard disc isn't detected by or even identified
>as being present by the system. Any ideas what exactly might be wrong with
>the disc?
>
>My friend has some data on the failed disc that he would really like to
>recover. Is this likely to be possible without specialist equipment?
>
>TIA,
>
>Charles
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> You, O Lord, keep my lamp burning; my God turns my darkness into light.
> - Psalm 18:28
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>